Camera Surveillance For Decatur Square
Decatur Metro | August 17, 2009Looks like Iron Sky isn’t just donating equipment to the school system.
The city commission will vote this evening on whether to accept a $147,000 donation of cameras, hardware and software necessary for the Police Department to tape and remotely monitor activity on the MARTA plaza and Decatur Square.
According to a letter from the City Manager (page 33)…
“…the MARTA Plaza was selected in order to add an additional opportunity to provide a safe environment for residents and visitors, to reduce the incidences of skateboarding and similar activities and to reduce the number of graffiti incidences. It will also provide the opportunity to monitor and record the Church Street entrance to the Decatur MARTA Station and the sidewalk going to the bus-to-rail transfer point.”
A map attached with the City Manager’s note (page 34) shows cameras not just focused on what we typically think of as “the MARTA plaza”, but also the MARTA entrance on Church Street and the Square behind the Old Courthouse.
Thanks to Rus for pointing this out!
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It’s about time! Let’s hope they get the remotely operated taser attachments, and Marta exit gate xrays too.
Of course you can bypass all of this by carrying an Iron Sky Loyalty Card, also good at Starbucks…
Should I even bring up Orwell, or are we post-Orwellian now?
“Iron Sky” sounds like a mid-80s Emilio Estevez vehicle.
Iron Sky could also be the name of a Christian rock band. Or a Bush-era military operation. Or Adam Horovitz’ brother-in-law.
Maybe I am biased but I am all in favor of the Camera Surveillance For Decatur Square. I know everyone is worried about big brother watching but really these systems have proven to of done so much good for a community than bad. Can anyone name one bad out come of having such a system? In today’s world these Camera Surveillance Systems have proven to be very important in solving crimes that in turn give the public better justice.
….to reduce the incidences of skateboarding and similar activities and to reduce the number of graffiti incidences.
OMG, skateboarding?! In Decatur?!
When will we, as a decent society, start getting tough on these hardened skateboarders? Maybe we can get Sarah Palin to come deliver an inspiring “speech” to help mobilize the real Americans here against this criminal scourge.
In addition to the relief we will likely get from these skateboarders, I am comforted there will be a record of my inevitable stabbing … or skateboarding…. or spray-painting.
I’d like more details on how this is going to work. Will there be an officer sitting in a dark room looking at a monitor? If so, could that officer simply be “stationed” on the square? Oh, wait…never mind…I just realized I forgot about “weather”. The dark room makes sense now.
I don’t think I’m alone in preferring occasional skateboards and graffiti to surveillance.
Skateboarding is a healthy sport — let the kids skate all they want! I have been observing this illogical hatred of skateboarders/skateboarding ever since my own son was on his board, and it has never made any sense to me. Is breakdancing prohibited too? Tai chi? Public displays of affection? I agree with Laura, I don’t like the whole “surveillance” thing. At all. Having opined all that, I must add as someone who was formerly in the security profession that cameras record and people (may) respond, but usually not in time to prevent anything. A human being walking the plaza and the square would be much more effective as a preventive measure…
While I like “free” and there is some sketchy activity near the Marta
entrances sometimes…I’m not a big fan of police state type surveillance.
I also don’t appreciate the Commission naming skateboarding as a problem on par
with graffiti taggers. What about the scourge of cyclists or baby strollers?
or
Why not worry about the crazy homeless and the drug dealers and leave the kids
alone?
Isn’t it interesting that folks who complain about the perceived lack of police presence on the Square don’t like the idea of passive surveillance?
Passive surveillance by camera is in no way a good substitute for active patrolling of Decatur Plaza area. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Irony Sky version 3.2 will also monitor thoughtcrime.
It detects thoughtcrime too? ohh noooooooze!
My mind is pretty much blank most of the time. Since I have no thoughts, would that be considered a thoughtcrime?
Thought Vagrancy!
No…no…no..That is going way, way too far. This “Iron Sky” stuff is getting ridiculous – I’m not positive that it’s even constitutional….. is it? Any lawyers out there want to weigh in on this?
The name even creeps me out.
Man….. “Iron Sky”… great name for a novel about some creepy surveillance company giving out “free” surveillance equipment to unsuspecting cities…. and all the unexpected consequences that follow. It would be right in there with the 1984/Terminator/Matrix genre.
What does Decatur have to agree to in order to get all this “free stuff”????? Nothing is really free, is it? Does Decatur really want to be the featured city for a surveillance company like this? Do we want to be known all over the country as the city that uses “Iron Sky” to spy on its citizens… 99.99% of whom are up to nothing?
It doesn’t seem very Decaturish to me.
I don’t think there’s any constitutionality question. Many areas, including Buckhead and Tampa, Florida, that I can immediately think of, have monitoring in this fashion. Fixit, what area of the Constitution do you think would be violated? Like Vic says, if you’re behaving, why worry. It’s the same as red light cameras – if you don’t violate the law, it doesn’t apply to you.
I wasn’t sure it there was a constitutional problem.. that ‘s why I asked. It just smells bad – but lots of things that smell bad are perfectly legal.
And no, I’m not violating any laws on the square. I just don’t like the idea of people being watched by the government.
Plus, I just want to be able to pick my nose in peace without some cop in a dark room watching me.
Just remember, you can pick your friends and you can pick you nose, but you can’t pick your friend’s nose.
Depends on the friend.
I’m the opposite. If I’m gonna take the trouble to pick my nose in public, I want a cop in a dark room watching me thru a camera.
if you don’t violate the law, it doesn’t apply to you.
Wow …. that’s a scary way to operate. So, as long as you don’t violate the law, who cares about Constitutional rights?
Don’t agree with that.
However, I do agree that the cameras would hold up in court. You are literally in the public square and I think there is sufficient precedent that says that when you are in the public square you give up your right to privacy.
Isn’t there an election coming up? I’d like to see what Kyle Williams and/or Patti think of this…
I agree. DM should get on this!
I have big problems with this proposal….
1. Someone has a personal issue about skateboarding (or youth in general) and they need to work it out privately, not with public policy.
2. Show me the data where the Square deserves surveillance more than other crime prone areas.
3. Who is going to monitor the system and who is going to pay them to do it?
4. What is to keep recorded material from unintended public uses like embarrassing Blooper TV shows?
They can watch me all they want. I have nothing to hide, and if it helps catch people that are committing crimes, I say do it! Does anyone REALLY think that a cop sitting in a room gives a crap about you and your friends wandering around on the square? Jeez…
Aren’t most of the businesses that have been burglarized in recent months NOT on the square? The only way I can see this as being helpful is to aid in identifying perpetrators of a crime (after the fact–you know, like on TV: “Zoom, zoom, ENHANCE!”), such as robbing the Brick Store or Little Shop. But if that’s the goal, it sounds like we need cameras over on WePo.
You may have good point – tell your City leaders.
That’s what I was getting at with point #2.
I think we should be more scientific about where surveillance will be most effective. IMO The Square just doesn’t need it…Unless you have a deep seated hatred of skateboarders.
I’d like to comment on the skateboarding issue. I do not believe the police will be watching out for kids riding skateboards around the square for transportation or fun. The issue is when the skateboarders use public and private property as their own stunt parks. The marble wall in front of the Nanston Dental Building at Church and E. Ponce has been permanently damaged by groups of skateboarders performing stunts on it–I have seen this many times. There are many areas around Decatur that offer great places for these kids to perform stunts (especially the square with its many steps and rails) and those stunts often damage or ruin these places. I think that is what the City Manager means when he refers to watching out for skateboarders. When their actions cause as much damage as graffiti, they should be stopped.
And also the marble benches that were donated to Glennwood and sit in front of the school. Very much damaged. This is why they opened the skate park; unfortunately we don’t have more of those. I wonder if they’re putting in a skate park at Glenlake? Now that would be a great idea–if more kids could walk themselves to the skate parks then they’d probably use them more.
I could do my usual quoting of City Code, but I’ll refrain. Suffice it to say that skateboarding on public property is illegal.
Thanks. That’s news to me.
With an unsolved shooting in front of the police station, and a mother and baby getting mugged in broad daylight, Installing a surveillance system in order to catch skateboarders is completely insane.
Amen to that!
Anyone that has an issue with this needs to call or email the city commissioners. Don’t just vent on a blog, let the elected officials know where you stand — for or against.
DM — Do you know how the vote came out?
inDecatur says it was approved.
Thanks Steve. Here’s the link MoonCat…
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/in_decatur/2009/08/unofficial-summary-of-81709-city-commission-meeting.html#more
So letting the Commissioners know where we stand is pretty moot. Back to blog venting….
You can let them know in November.
Can I log in to the video feed to check the line at the Brick Store?
Well played!!!
Funny…and good point. Webcams would be lots more fun.
On skateboarding: Healthy activity if – and only if – the skateboarder does not destroy public and private property (which is almost never). In addition to the benches, walls, rails, etc. everyone mentions above, we’ve had to tell skateboarders to leave the CHURCH property because they were performing stunts on the stairs, rails, etc. Is nothing sacred anymore? I’m sorry, but I can’t support skateboarders who show complete lack of respect for property that is not their own.
Couldn’t these cameras be better used somewhere where there is actual crime? What’s the worst thing to go down in front of that marta station anyhow?
MARTA stations are festooned with cameras. Are we going to mount these “Rusty Sky” cameras next to them? How many will the mountings support?
Bruce Schneier has a great essay about the ineffectiveness of these types of cameras:
http://www.schneier.com/essay-225.html
“They actually solve very few crimes, and their deterrent effect is minimal. Conventional wisdom predicts the opposite. But if that were true, then camera-happy London, with something like 500,000, would be the safest city on the planet. It isn’t, of course, because of technological limitations of cameras, organisational limitations of police and the adaptive abilities of criminals.”
Great read, however I would like to see him debate the topic with a Casino security director!
I don’t know much about casino security other than what I have learned watching the Ocean’s 11 movies, but my guess is that the big difference is that the casino cameras are not only continually monitored, but the monitors are also looking for very specific behaviors.
Yikes! What a waste of money. As PMcG stated above…..WHO is watching this surveillance footage? Is the City of Decatur actually paying someone to watch this monitor? And if they see something….they call 911 and then a police officer eventually makes their way there? So let me get this straight. We’re paying for the camera, we’re paying for the person to watch the monitor yet it all comes down to calling 911 when someone sees something? It’s like the wall they want to build to keep the illegal immigrants out. Complete with cameras. You see people climbing the wall on the monitor. By the time you get there, the perpetrators are gone. Pluuueesse…..stop with these lazy ideas of enforcement
I’d prefer comprehensive red light and speed camera-ing to monitoring of pedestrians at the square.
But nobody asked me.
Security is such an easy sell. People will give up any right if someone claims it will make their world safer. Fear based marketing is here to stay I guess. “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin.
After all this, I’m going to sheepishly admit that I am not totally against surveillance cameras. I guess that shows how high my trust level is in the city and our police because I know I would be much more suspicious if federal agencies were doing this. But I have to admit that I’ve been feeling less and less comfortable around the plaza and the row of restaurants lately. My completely subjective opinion is that, after a period of gradual improvement in the quality of that area, there’s more “hanging out” there in ways that don’t seem friendly and social. Maybe I’m just getting older, or freaked out by crime news, or maybe it’s because I have a young teen who is walking around town more. But I want our open, public spaces to be safe and I want us to be able to document crimes against safety that occur there. I would prefer more policing but, when crimes occur, e.g. thefts at ATM’s, I’m always relieved to know that there’s pictures of who did it. Some of this is perception–if the open, well-lit, totally public plaza isn’t perceived as safe, then how should we feel about all the secluded areas around Decatur.
BTW, is there still a lab there that does drug testing? That always seemed to me to be an unfortunate business to have on our city’s central, showpiece plaza.
If you have to ask the question about the lab, maybe you haven’t been on the Square recently. Yes, it’s still there.
Are you aware of an ATM theft in Decatur recently?
BTW, I just checked crimereports.com and it shows a total of 13 reported crimes in Decatur in the last 7 days, not counting traffic stops, which are really crimes in themselves (they’re civil, not criminal in nature), but which sometimes do lead to more serious things.
I meant traffic stops are really NOT crimes in themselves.
The average person doesn’t like the idea of cameras until they or a loved one is victimized in some way. Then, they can’t believe there wasn’t a camera at that ATM, store, park, etc. This is a tough argument. But there can’t be a cop on every corner. Any one of us can be the victim of a crime. Anytime and anywhere. Even in our great little city. Wouldn’t you rather have some cameras monitoring our public spaces for those times when something happens? Worse case scenario: Has anyone ever turned there head for a second and there child is suddenly gone? Of course 99% of the time, they have darted off and you find them pretty quick. But what if? Do you see how many kids are running around without direct supervision during concerts and festivals or at the pools and parks? Wouldn’t you really want there to be some video to view if your child hadn’t just darted off. We have a truly wonderful community and we are way safer than most of the communities around us. But we are not immune. I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
to reduce skateboarding? thats the lamest thing ever. How about at least blanket the BS with reduce crime. how lame.