The Power of Context
Decatur Metro | October 25, 2008OK, just to let people know up front…Scott fully acknowledges that he is disturbed (and a little obsessive).
But he and I were intrigued by what happens when you take a row of brand-new brownstones that are currently located awkwardly in a cluster off of Scott (just east of Clairemont) and plop them down in the 315 parking lot along Montgomery.
The results are below: with the first two pics before the jump and the final three after. Does the change in context of the brownstones or the Montgomery streetscape alter your opinion of either? (Scott and I have our own opinions, which we will perhaps reveal after a bit of discussion.)
And please note: This is just an exercise, designed to provide a visual alternative. It is nothing the developer has proposed. In fact, everyone familiar with this saga knows the developer’s latest plan includes courtyards that eliminate the “wall effect” that a continuous row of brownstones would produce.
Existing Parking Lot along Montgomery
Three story brownstones added
Street trees added
On-street parking added
Adding the human element
Latest from Decaturish
Oh, but the quaint rowhouses, greenery and frolicking children would totally obscure the delightful view of the curvature of the earth so clearly revealed by those luscious square feet of asphalt. They just don’t make many parking lots like that anymore!
very nice rendering! Someone is a photoshop masta!
still digesting this concept…but I’ll come back to it with a more sober mind…
-hey watta gonna do..its the weekend!
I do agree that the site these brownstones came from is very awkward (awful, and density in an bad location IMHO)…oh well, you wont see any of them in a couple decades when all those trees get bigger and cover em up! I know this is off subject, but I’m glad someone else noticed how bad the site layout of that project is. Sorry…off subject.
I do think the last sentence in your post is very important.
By “your post” I mean Decatur Metro’s…
I think most of the comment I’ve heard about this project, is a concern over height–and right accross the street from the bungalows on Montgomery. A design that doesn’t overwhelm the neighborhood’s scale seems in order. After all, there USED to be houses where the parking lot is years and years ago.
The other concern is traffic…let’s leave that for another day.
Ya’ll need to get out the skreet!
Can you somehow add in a view of the now vacant or closing stores and restaurants around West Ponce with people actually in them and the businesses thriving? I would like to see what that would look like too. No need to add too too many cars on the streets since the people living there could actually walk there.
Now that’s just crazy. Next you’ll be suggesting that The Artisan is somehow better than the historic parking lot and guard shack it replaced.
Sheesh.
Well whatever they build at 315, thank God the “neighborhood” shot down the boutique hotel. Decatur really couldn’t do any better than the holiday inn or super 8 (they got a new sign! Swanky!)
Adding the kids on bikes (and probably skateboards) made the idea a bit scary. There can be some heavy traffic heading south down that stretch of Ponce, and the view of that corner is usually restricted by cars parked on-street … especially on a Saturday & Sunday afternoon/evening when the Mac is packed with football fans.
I think the kids riding/running/playing around is a reality of Decatur…
I havnt heard a lot of opinions of the actual design yet, so I’ll throw my hat out there.
What I like: I do like the architecture…I’m sure architects out there boque (sp?) at classic architecture like this, but I think in the context of Atlanta, where there is not a lot of this style architecture, it works great. If we were in Boston, or Philly, I may feel otherwise, but Atlanta has pleanty of post WWII architecture so I rarely have a problem with brownstones…just my opinion.
I prefer, as this is, single units with indiviudal entries…unlike a massive building “complex” that may have one entry that serves multiple units or whatever. I think this would fit in with the scale of the neighborhood better. Then along Ponce have a typical condo/apt style single entry to the building with a vestibule or whatever. (does the real proposal have multiple entries to the building along Montgomery? dont remember…)
What I dont like: I miss the two garden spaces that the actual proposal has.
I think the scale along this street is okay…its only 1 story taller than other condos w/in the neighborhoods.
At the time it opened , the Holiday Inn was touted by City officials as a centerpeice of the revitalization of Decatur. It was just what Decatur needed. The hotel would provide a nice, upscale place for out of town relatives and guests to stay. The conference center would bring lots of new visitors to downtown . They would shop in the soon to come retail stores and restaurants. Didn’t quite happen that way.
Now people say, If the 315 project could only include the boutique hotel , we’d have an alternative to that awful Holiday Inn . This boutique hotel will be clean and wonderful , it will be a draw for lots of new visitors to downtown. Why will this time be different ?
All these new retail shops and restaurants were supposed to get plenty of business from buyers of the new condos along Ponce and there would be significant consumer traffic coming ,too, from nearby homeowners.
Filling up the available office space with workers from Emory and later students from Devry and Atlanta College of Art would bring much needed daytime business to the shops and restaurants. Didn’t quite happen that way.
Now the plan is for the apartments in the 315 Ponce project to fill with tennants paying $1,200 – $1,400 per month for a one bedroom unit. They will drive to work elsewhere everyday , making room in the parking deck for the office building occupants. Then these new residents will come back home in the early evening and walk over to spend lots of money in the shops and restaurants. How can everyone be so sure that this time the projections will be on track ?
If past history is a valid predictor, this might not work out as planned.
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Personally, I’m most struck by the change in context for the brownstones. Sitting in a massed heap along Scott, I thought they were pretty ugly. But put them up along a street and they look great!
As for the change in context for Montgomery, my feelings are a bit more mixed. As newbie said, I’m not a huge fan of the “wall effect” either. I think more has to be done to repair the abrupt change in context caused by sloppy urban renewal “planning” that put C2 right next to R60. I think courtyards are a good first step. I’d also love for the max height to be 2 stories along Montgomery…but that’s not the setback requirement. As for the rest of this development (not shown), its going to take a brilliant architect to come up with something that is sympathetic to both neighboring R60 and a modern/postmodern high-rise. I don’t know how anything can ever look good tucked infront of a 10 story building on Ponce.
We all have different priorities and tastes. Some are more willing to achieve higher densities at the expense of look. Others are more willing to put restrictions on density in order to get a better aesthetic. The goal is to come to some sort of compromise that still is attractive enough to whomever is giving the developer this loan to take the “risk”.
I agree entirely with FiFi and Christian. The blue sky chamber of commerce stuff has to be tempered with reality at some point in the process.
The developers and our illustrious leaders aren’t always right.
I would also bet that the occupancy rate in these mixed use developments is far lower then in existing single story structures. They’re really designed and priced for chains as opposed to individual business. You know, the kind that make Decatur great.
These complexes are almost completely devoid of any character. They maximize footprint and space. Think of a Best Buy store but for people.
David – I’m just curous, what modern project, in your view, is a great example of a development you like (anywhere in the Atlanta area). I hear nothing but negitive from you…I’d like to hear something positive…so name ONE project you do like, just so we have a sence of where you are coming from. Its quite clear what you dont like.
Sounds like any project here is doomed to failure to some!
None that I can think of in this last round building. Limiting it to recent is a big mistake.
In Decatur I prefer using the classic Atlanta horseshoe with open courtyard model from the 20’s. There’s a perfect example on the east end of Ponce just past downtown.
Briarhill on Briarcliff is also a good postwar design. It’s the white complex just north of the by-way.
Both will probably still be there when the Artisan and all it’s ilk are just a distant memory.