Morning Metro: Homecoming, Sen. Carter Speaks on Charter Schools, and Vanishing Humans
Decatur Metro | October 26, 2012
- Decatur High School Homecoming tonight! [DHS]
- Free speech limits tested in Mason Mill neighborhood dispute [AJC]
- State Sen. Jason Carter’s opinion on charter schools [AJC]
- Sen. Carter featured in “Transparency Project” [Atlanta Unfiltered]
- Exploring the local beer “underground” [CL]
- How humans almost vanished from Earth in 70,000 B.C. [NPR]
Photo courtesy of katetomlinson via Flickr
Latest from Decaturish
I fail to see what is so misleading about the ballot question. It refers to “state or local” approval, which clearly signals that, if approved, the amendment will permit state approval of charter schools even if the local school board has voted against it or was never asked to pass on the issue in the first place. The “or” in the ballot question is necessary because local boards will still have the power to approve (or not) charter applications, though their decisions will no longer be the final word on the matter. To have worded the question to refer only to state approval would arguably be far more “misleading” than the current question. And it is not as if opponents of the ballot question have had any difficulty in expressing their opposition.
Moreover, Carter’s suggested solution — to use the courts to force elected officials to re-write ballot questions to reflect the “truth” — is far worse than the claimed disease. Rather than have the electorate vote on ballot questions, Carter’s solution would tie the questions up in endless litigation designed the prevent the voters from taking action. It’s hard to see who would benefit from that, other than lawyers and politicians who loathe permitting citizens to express their will directly.
What the question does not say in clear terms is that, for all intents and purposes, the State is the only body that can deny a charter school.
If a local board denies it, the State can step in and approve it. The very “or” that you mention is the problem. There is no “or.” A local board will only be able to approve a charter school after this takes effect because the State has the final say. Do you really think the State would deny a charter school after it’s approved by the local board? No. They won’t even consider it. If the State approves a charter school, that’s it, it’s approved. Local boards cannot deny after that. Local control, gone. If that’s what you want, then fine, but that’s what it is. And as I think about what you said, why would a charter school company even bother talking to a local board? They would just go right to the State.
The question should have said something to the effect of, “Do you approve of giving the State permission to override a local school board’s decision on charter schools?”
If Amendment One passes, a charter school company could go straight to the State for approval without ever having to go through the local school system at all? Not even to get a denial? Not even as an FYI? This is worse than I thought.
No, if the amendment passes, charter petitioners will still have to go to their local boards before going to the state. The exception to that requirement would be charter schools with a statewide attendance zone like online schools (which is a growing for-profit sector on which taxpayers need to keep a watchful eye).
Thanks, that’s what I had thought. Still against Amendment One and still think it’s not objectively and clearly written.
Thanks for that piece of information, Margaret. I’m still voting a BIG no on this one.
+ 1,600,000 (GA school kids)
And the local school board could say no, but the state could still say yes, effectively rendering the local school board’s decision useless.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Unless I misunderstood what I read in the full text of the bill, the petitioning entity may submit their applications (to the local board and state) concurrently. So they needn’t wait to see if they’re denied by the local board before applying to the state commission.
http://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/en-US/Display/20112012/HB/797
There most certainly is an “or” because the language refers only to who can approve a charter school. And it is clear that a local board will be able to do so if the amendment passes. It is just as clear from the language that the state can approve a charter even if the local board does not.
So again, what is misleading? I understand that opponents of the measure would have preferred to word the question in a way that is less likely to result in approval, but that does not make the question misleading as posed.
It is not clear and you know it. You know what would have been clear?
“If mom tells me no, can dad approve anyway without mom’s consent?”
That’s essentially what this amendment is trying to do.
Unclear and misleading are two different things. Carter claimed it is misleading.
It is also misleading.
Living in Decatur with our high quality schools and our conscientious school board, I can understand why one would vote against allowing the State to over-ride a local board’s decision to decline a charter.
However, I don’t think there is a large, untapped market of parents looking for school choice in Decatur. For this reason, I do not expect there is going to be a big push for Charter schools in the city of Decatur.
But… What if you lived in Clayton county or Atlanta?
Do you trust THOSE school boards to have the best interest of the students at heart? Their track record certainly demonstrates that they do not.
There’s already a mechanism to appeal to the State in that situation, right Amendment One aficianados? So Amendment One is unnecessary as well as misleading.
That’s right. Under the existing system, charters denied at the local level can appeal to the state BOE, where their application is evaluated by *educators.* The proposed amendment creates a redundant system to solve a problem that’s not actually a problem at all.
I believe that is not correct. The State BOE’s website indicates that under current law charter schools must be approved by BOTH the local board and the state BOE. If that is the case, then refusal by the BOE ends the matter:
“In order to be granted a charter, schools must be approved by both their local board of education and the State Board of Education with the exception of state-chartered special schools which are authorized by the State Board of Education only.”
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/External-Affairs-and-Policy/Charter-Schools/Pages/General-Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx
Nope. The state board of education can approve charter schools denied by local boards of education. I re-confirmed this with the head of the charter school division yesterday.
The State Board of Education can and does approve charters today – until they get sued again by a local district contesting that right. All this amendment does is establish charter schools as legal in Georgia, which is needed after the Supreme Court decision last year. If these districts think charters are half as bad as they are saying and telling their teachers, there’s no question that lawsuit is already in the works.
One more note – the State Board of Education also has oversight over every charter school the Commission would approve, and could overturn any charter school approved by the Commission (which would cost a grand total of $0 in state dollars to fund its operations).
If you think families in districts that aren’t as strong as Decatur should have the right to make a choice to get their kids a good education regardless of their income or zip code, then your choice is clear.
And what would that solve, Matt? We’d end up with a lot of Avondale High Schools on our hands.
“If you think families in districts that aren’t as strong as Decatur should have the right to make a choice to get their kids a good education regardless of their income or zip code, then your choice is clear.”
I think families in school districts not as strong as Decatur should do one of two things:
1) Get involved. The solution is not to run away from the school. What will end up happening is the families with money will pull their kid out of the public school system and send them to either a private school or a charter school. Take out all the kids whose parents have the interest or the motivation to be involved and you’re left with a recipe for disaster. Avondale High School is a good example.
2) Move. If you don’t like the school system, move to another district. Why buy a home in an area that you don’t think has a good school system?
So their own website is dead wrong? Talk about misleading voters seeking information . . .
Can’t people in the Clayton or Atlanta city vote out the School Boards if they are holding up needed or wanted advancements?
What’s to keep a Charter organization from opening a Charter school in Decatur, and compelling the Decatur City Schools to partially fund it?
Isn’t that the crux of this decision?
Please someone correct me if I am misunderstanding, but said charter school could open in Decatur, override the CSD or Dekalb county board, get students from “Decatur” and beyond, and have CSD or Dekalb county partially fund it.
I’ll vote no to this.
And vote in a school board I agree with.
I think you’ve summed it up pretty well, Arriba.
A charter school company is not likely to pursue opening a school in Decatur.
Why? Competition.
City of Decatur schools are already doing a good job. We do not have a significant population of parents seeking an alternative. Opening a new school is an expensive undertaking, and that investment would not be justified if there is not a market seeking an alternative.
And to the question of stealing our school’s funding… the amendment says that will not happen:
1) “no bonded indebtedness may be incurred nor a school tax levied for the support of special schools without the approval of the local board of education and a majority of the qualified voters voting thereon in each of the systems affected.”
2) “The state is authorized to expend state funds for the support and maintenance of special schools in such amount and manner as may be provided by law; provided, however, no deduction shall be made to any state funding which a local school system is otherwise authorized to receive pursuant to general law as a direct result or consequence of the enrollment in a state charter school of a specific student or students who reside within the geographic boundaries of the local school system.”
So… am I missing something here? I’m guessing so… I assume the school system is only authorized to receive state funds based on the number of students, right? And it also leaves the funding question open to “general law” that the state legislature can rewrite. That explains the fear among under-performing districts that are afraid of competition. But I really do not believe that Decatur has anything to worry about.
I agree that Decatur is at low risk of having a fly-by-night private charter company come in and seduce parents and teachers away from their neighborhood schools. But that doesn’t influence my vote on Amendment One; I don’t think it’s the right approach for anywhere. It’s the wrong mechanism for a good option–community-inspired, -developed, and -governed charter schools. And it attracts the wrong kind of business, commercial charter schools that care more about profit than students.
I don’t have an informed opinion yet on Carter’s solution to misleading ballot questions. However, his explanation of why Amendment One is misleading is quite clear, especially the part about the amendment’s introduction:
“The politicians’ “introduction” on the ballot is even more misleading. It says that the amendment: “Provides for improving student achievement and parental involvement through more public charter school options.” Who could be against that? Well, in reality, there is little evidence that the amendment would “improve student achievement.” In fact, a nonpartisan Stanford University study showed that about 20 percent of charter schools performed better than comparable local schools, almost half performed the same, and 37 percent were “significantly worse.”
The introduction to Amendment One hit me as manipulative right off the bat when I first read it. It implies that if you care about improving student achievement and parental involvement, you’ll vote yes. Arguably, student achievement and parenteral involvement could get worse under the amendment. But the naive voter who knows nothing about public education in Georgia but cares about kids might not realize that. Certainly Amendment One is making me more cautious about all amendments especially those about which I know little. Sometimes abstaining on a particular ballot item might be the most responsible vote.
They are called “low information voters”.
Senator Carter is right to demand legislators stop playing games with voters and draft transparent ballot questions that bear more resemblance to the issue being addressed. Unlike other states, GA has no preemptive mechanism to prohibit legislators from writing intentionally misleading questions, and that’s a shame.
Regarding Amendment #1, the ballot question asks whether state or local communities should be able to create charter schools, obscuring the fact that both local boards of education and the state board of education can currently approve charter schools.
We elect state and local leaders to represent us, but over and over they refuse to directly address tough issues and kick the decision down to voters to keep their hands clean (most recently, Sunday Sales, TSPLOST, charter amendment). I’m mad that legislators bowing to caucus and special interests have put Amendment #1 on the ballot but I am pleased that Senator Carter is opposed to this ridiculous power and money grab.
The amendment is bad for our kids.
This is a proposed amendment to the state constiution. By law it has to be presented to the voters. It is not a matter of kicking the issue to the voters to keep their hands clean.
Failing to come up with real education reform and instead sending voters Amendment #1 is a big legislative fail.
What the Charter Amendment does is quite simple –just 2 things:
• Puts in the Constitution that state approved charter schools (including the ones approved by the State Board of Education) are legal
• Puts in the Constitution that local funds of school districts will be protected and never provided to state charter schools
That’s all the amendment does, and without the amendment in place state charter schools face being shut down if and when the local districts sue (again) to contest the rights of these schools to exist. Based on the information and threats you’ve probably been hearing from local districts, I personally believe there is little doubt that a lawsuit will be coming soon after election day if the amendment is unsuccessful.
I encourage you to read the full text of the amendment yourself: http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/pdf/hr1162.pdf
It’s only about 2 pages long, and can help you get past all of the misleading claims that are being made. You’ll find that the amendment protects charter school students AND local school district funding – despite what you might hear otherwise.
The simple truth is that if the amendment doesn’t pass you will see very few if any true independent charter schools in Georgia in the future – including the current ones that will be sued out of existence.
Matt, I respect you and enjoyed debating you recently at the CSD forum. You are a formidable and thoughtful opponent.
However, those of you in support of Amendment #1 really should cut out the assurances that the amendment will ensure no local funds will go to pay for state charter schools. It adds insult and the injury heaped upon students and classroom teachers across GA who are reeling from billion dollar state budget cuts. You know as well as I that when the state cuts funding, local property taxes go up to fill the hole, and school systems cut the academic year, increase class sizes, and furlough teachers.
What would be very helpful and would sooth parents and educators frustrated by state budget cuts is if you and Amendment #1 supporters could articulate where the money to fund new state schools is coming from.
For-profit charter school management companies!
Margaret, I enjoyed our debate as well, but the claims of looming “more cuts” to public education funds due to charter schools just don’t hold water.
I think the funds needed for charter schools will come from the same place that the additional funds for Charter Systems like Decatur came from – any number of places in the State Budget other than QBE funding, the place where the Governor and others have repeatedly stated that they will not cut. Just as I don’t think you really believe that Decatur “stole” funds from other districts by becoming a charter system (and getting additional funding), charter schools won’t be stealing funds from other public schools.
You can look to additional economic growth, cuts to the state’s justice system, or healthcare savings as just a few possible places to look for the small amount of money needed to fund the less than 1/5 of one percent (.0018% to be precise) of additional dollars needed to support charter schools – and that doesn’t even account for the additional savings from equalization grants and other categorical funds that charter schools don’t receive and districts do. Frankly, I think the total additional funds needed for charter schools will end up being very close to negligible when all the accounting is said and done.
It adds insult to the injury of taking away the schools of thousands of charter school parents and families just looking for an opportunity for a better life to claim that the only way for them to have a chance is to “cut funding” for everyone else. We don’t have to hurt districts to help students, and to claim that’s the only way creates a false choice. There doesn’t have to be any losers here – unless the amendment doesn’t pass and everyone loses.
I was not in favor of start-up funding for system charters. It was all about the political cachet of the term “charter”. I think the special funding did influence school systems and was the wrong reason to apply for a system charter. There are aspects of system charters that I like, including a moderate amount of increased flexibility and giving schools more local governance which gave parents and teachers more say (but in reality, not much unfortunately). But that all can be done without special funding from the state. BTW, I’m not sure that the established system charters still get that special funding.
Re: “The simple truth is that if the amendment doesn’t pass you will see very few if any true independent charter schools in Georgia in the future – including the current ones that will be sued out of existence.”
Not simple or true. Excellent charter schools, like the Museum School and the International School have been formed without Amendment One. They are not about to be sued out of existence; in fact, they are moving into better digs, getting more and more adept at fundraising, and thriving.
It’s possible to be against Amendment One but not be against charter schools, especially charter schools that arise from parent, community, and teacher efforts and commitment vs. private charter company efforts.
The Museum School is a great example, as it would not be here today without the Charter Commission that originally approved it. It was denied several times by the district before the Commission gave it a chance, and it is thriving now.
Who knows how many other wonderful schools like the Museum School are out there that won’t have a chance to thrive if this amendment doesn’t pass. Many communities around the State like Avondale don’t have their Musuem School’s yet – and they won’t get them without something changing.
So if the Museum school was able to get approved, there’s a current mechanism. Don’t need the amendment.
I might be more neutral on this issue if commercial charter schools were not considered charter schools eligible for state funding. It takes a ton of community will and blood, sweat, and tears to develop a true charter school from scratch, which weeds out some of the more shallow and less sound efforts. Charter schools owned by commercial entities are a different animal IMHO.
The Museum school was approved under a process that was found unconstitutional last year.That mechanism no longer exists. If the supreme court hadn’t made that decision, we wouldn’t be here today.
And every charter school in Georgia must be a non-profit Board made up of members of the community. No one can “own” a charter school other than a community.
Re non-profit Board: It’s one thing to have a Board made up folks that a commercial charter found n the community vs. a Board made up of the folks who built the charter from the ground up themselves.
Matt – Who really wants these charter schools? Who really stands to benefit from them? Is it really the kids, or is this more about big business?
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/filings-pro-charter-amendment-campaign-swamps-oppo/nSpfn/
This amendment renders local school boards useless. Charter doesn’t like the local school board’s decision? “Ah, that’s ok, we’ll just go to the state and they’ll approve us,” they’ll say. What’s the point of the school board?
I could support the amendment if it prohibited public funds going to for-profit entities. Since it allows for tax payer subsidy of profit making corporations, I must vote against he amendment.
+1
Even when it feels like cramming pebbles into a crumbling dike, we have to pay attention and do what we can.
Matt runs a company that could potentially make a lot of money on a yes vote being passed. I don’t trust his motives.
Wow. Good to know when reading the posts.
yes, Matt is the head of Georgia Cyber school. It is run by a for-profit company. It is something of a hybrid between homeschooling and regular schooling. I know this because we used it for 2 years before moving to Decatur.
Based on our personal experience, I will say that it is a wonderful option for everyone in the state. When we met for social outings, I was amazed at the diversity of the student population in the metro area. I was expecting a bunch of white, right wing christians but found all races and types of kids there. I was blown away by the number of African American families who were escaping failing schools in atlanta. For many families, this school was, for lack of a better word, a godsend. Many of the kids were facing peer pressure and bullying at their public schools and the families could not afford the resources to homeschool them adequately. This option provided curriculum, books and daily lessons along with an actual teacher that conferenced every couple weeks and was available more often if needed. They take the CRCT. The teachers are great. There is accountability. It is not for everyone, but it does work well for quite a number of families.
I understand that the school was developed by a for-profit corporation, but they work really hard and should be able to turn a profit like any other company. The suppliers of books, desks, sounds systems, and all that stuff that the brick and mortar schools buy to teach our kids can turn a profit, so what’s the big deal?
I did not wish to teach my kids at home anymore, and we could afford to move to Decatur. Not everyone is that lucky. I believe there needs to be a work around for state charters that bypasses the school boards. This is really a non-issue in Decatur where our schools are doing such a great job, but for many other families, this is an important issue.
Just my 2 cents, hope you guys keep an open mind and consider voting to help those kids outside of Decatur.
NY Times article on online charter schools:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/education/online-schools-score-better-on-wall-street-than-in-classrooms.html?pagewanted=all
The Museum School was started after many in Avondale Estates sent their children to Avondale Elementary with hopes of being involved and improving the environment. Apparently they were met with resistance from some on staff. Charter starts and more resistance from local board. If not for the state that school would likely be closed. I get both sides of this issue, but sometimes the local solution is a brick wall.
Agree that local school systems can be a brick wall and charters can be a good option. Just don’t think this Amendment is the way to do this. A constitutional amendment is hard to undo.
And someone who agrees with me: http://decatur.patch.com/blog_posts/charter-school-advocate-will-vote-no-e2ae3811
This is enough for me to vote “No” on the amendment:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/filings-pro-charter-amendment-campaign-swamps-oppo/nSpfn/