Mixed Use Development with Apartments Planned for Commerce Drive Bank of America Site
Decatur Metro | August 8, 2012
As mentioned by Mayor Bill Floyd at the end of Monday night’s Decatur City Commission meeting, the Planning Commission is preparing to hear a density bonus request from the property owner of the Bank of America site at 163 Clairemont Avenue, who plans to build a six-story mixed use structure on the site. According to information included in the staff report, the development will offer apartment rentals, the first Decatur development to do so since the Ice House Lofts back in 2001.
According to the developer’s application, the development will include 192 dwelling units (14% studios, 60% 1 bedrooms and 26% 2 bedrooms), 10,000 square feet of retail space, and a 5 level parking deck with 300 spaces. For comparison purposes, 192 units is slightly larger than both the Artisan and the Renaissance developments.
The developer, Decatur Clairemont Holdings LLC, is going before the Planning Commission next Tueday to request a downtown multiple-dwelling and lifecycle housing bonus for the property and to build a drive-thru for the bank inside the parking deck. Under the lifecycle ordinance, the applicant is looking to build 32 additional units in addition to the 160 already allowed on the site, with 75% of those additional units are designated as “lifecycle dwellings”. According to the staff report, the applicant has agreed to “work with city staff to define and administer the lifecycle housing units.” “Approaches could include making the lifecycle units income restricted, rent restricted or some combination. It is recommended that the lifecycle units be spread across each unit type, not just limited to studios.”
Based on DeKalb’s median income levels and HUD’s recommendation that housing not exceed 30% of income, the staff report calculates a monthly rate of $971 for these “lifecycle” units. The report goes on to note that a 2008 Affordable Housing Market Study in Decatur found a lack of supply of apartment units for those earning between $30,000-$50,000 year.
The Decatur Downtown Development Authority has already reviewed the project in regards to the 2010 Strategic Plan and supports it with a number of conditions, including, but not limited to:
- The parking deck be wrapped by the building, all utilities are located underground
- The applicant agree to adjust project to coordinate with Commerce Drive redesign
- There be “…some type of inter-parcel connectivity between Church Street and Clairemont Avenue”
- Resident access be provided on all three streets,
- There is a place to walk dogs
- The developer must provide new sidewalks, street tree plantings and streetlighting
Read the full list of conditions, plus the entire staff report about the project HERE. The Planning Commission will take up the lifecycle bonus and drive-thru options next Tuesday, August 14th at 7pm at Decatur City Hall.
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As someone living on the northside that uses the Clairemont/Commerece intersection as my pedestrian gateway into downtown, I fully support development like this. The best part is that another surface parking lot bites the dust. Second best is this increases the density downtown. Finally, my un-expert analysis is that the building as a whole will be revenue positive for COD/CSD – the childless should outnumber the procreators in a development like this.
Now waiting for someone smart to come in and tell me exactly why I’m wrong!
Buh-buh-buh-but the farmer’s market!
I strongly support high-end rental housing that will bring more young professionals to Decatur. That many studios and one bedrooms should prevent a big influx of kids, while providing taxes and customers for downtown retail. I think it’s a big win.
Genuine, non-snarky question: Why is it beneficial to prevent a big influx of kids from living in downtown Decatur?
The concern is a large amount of housing coming on the market that contributes to our school overcrowding. Small unit rental tends to target singles and childless couples.
CL this was indeed my point. Since school crowding is becoming an issue, this type of development should not significantly worsen that situation. Outside of that I am 100% in favor of kids living throughout Decatur. Some of the adults I could do without.
“Some of the adults I could do without”: Especially if we get to pick which ones.
Thanks for answering. I was assuming this was the reason, but I wasn’t sure.
Couples who made a concious decision not to procreate prefer the term “child-free.” At least this is what Salon has been pushing with a series of articles on the matter recently.
Childless never quite made sense–what’s the opposite? Childmore? Now it’s clear: child-free and child-encumbered. Completely neutral wording.
As a “child-unencumbered” couple, we prefer the old fashioned descriptors, like “eccentric” and “urbane.” These are the words we hope our nieces and nephews use when we’re not around.
Because kids are sticky, and nobody wants to live in a sticky town.
CSD surveys in the past have shown that high density housing like this contribute very little to the student population. I’ve forgotten the exact number of of CSD students from the newer condos and apartment developments, but I seem to remember that it’s in the low double digits.
This may change, probably not drastically, but some. As it gets harder to find affordable single family homes in Decatur and families are getting more desperate to flee DeKalb and Atlanta City schools, I’m hearing about more families buying or renting homes in multii-unit housing in COD. Sometimes it’s just until they sell their home–but that could take a year or two. Sometimes it’s just while they renovate. Othertimes, they are saying that they’d rather be tight on space than stay where they are. If I had to do it over again, I’d rather a large condo than the headache of home ownership and yard. But, until recently, it’s been a rare young family with swingset needs who would say that.
So surveys from the past may not reflect this year’s reality. I wonder what current CSD enrollments are showing. The information is certainly collected annually but I’m not sure that it’s entered into a database that could be queried.
yup–I have a single-mom friend with two kids who is desperate to move into City of, but can’t afford even a rental home here. This will be just the ticket for her to get her kids into a good school!
Wow. I can’t see a downside in this. Density. Income diversity. Improved streetscaping. Replacement of an eyesore lot. A strong anchor to help push north off the main strip of commercial development existing in town. Good ratio of tax/service obligation.
Did someone at the DDA order this out of a catalog?
There’s not even anyone that can go all NIMBY on this since it’s in the middle of a commercial stretch.
That’s basically right, Steve. As of about four years ago, there was a low percentage of kids in the downtown condos. There was a markedly higher percentage in rental apartments outside of downtown. My guess is that the downtown factor was more important that the condo factor in explaining the difference, but that’s just a guess.
From a fiscal impact standpoint, simply put, kids cost a community money. That’s why the balance of commercial (which makes actually makes money for a community) vs. residential (which more often than not costs a community money to support them with services) is super important. Fortunately, Decatur gets it!
Where is BOA going? Away, I hope.
They’re the anchor tenant.
This is great, note to shadow “DecaturNewGuy”
Increased density in the downtown area, rental is a much needed use in the downtown Decatur. Nice conversion for the city and it sits all on currently zoned commercial land! no adjacent “R” zoning. This would be a huge improvment for that area area. Also nice increased tax revenue for a surface lot that is valued at a much lower rate. if they can combine this with some of the streetscape projects that too would be awsome.
Downtown Decatur needs to push out to the boundary areas. We really need the areas around the Highschool to come as well. (there are good possible jobs comming that way as well!!)
I wonder how many of the people who will live in these 192 units will work outside downtown Decatur and need to drive on the newly slim, post-“diet” Commerce and Church Streets during morning and afternoon rush hours. 300 parking spaces implies 300 cars belonging to residents and retail customers. I would guess the percentage living here but working beyond walking/bicycling distance and commuting in resident-owned cars rather than mass transit would be similar to the Artisan. With multiple entrances/exits at least they can turn right into traffic.
This looks like a nice project and I’m happy to see more downtown development. It does make the label for Commerce as the “Decatur Bypass” a bit more obsolete.
I-285 was intended as a bypass. Now it’s Main Street.
I’d be willing to bet the percentage of walkers/riders/transiters amongst those apartment dwellers will be higher than you think.
I completely agree. I would think that anyone thinking of living in a downtown environment is looking there specifically because it’s walkable and/or an easy trek on foot to MARTA.
That’s why I live downtown! MARTA and my bicycle are my main modes of transportation.
You would hope, but MARTA for the most part doesn’t take people where they need to go. If it does, it does so inefficiently.
I live 2 miles from three MARTA stations and it would take me longer to go to the station, get on the train, change trains, and then walk or get on a bus to go to work.
Why would I choose the option that takes longer?
The trains are packed Mon-Fri 7 am to 9 am and 4 pm to 6 pm. Wonder why? Wonder where all those people are going inefficiently. I guess none of them have cars. But wait … I have a car. What am I doing??????
I’m probably in a better position than you (no need to change trains, and office and home are probably closer to MARTA). But I could drive in less time than using MARTA to get downtown. But when I’m not biking I take MARTA because
(i) I hate driving in traffic, while sitting on a train reading isn’t bad at all
(ii) MARTA is still pretty fast
(iii) Taking MARTA lets my family of 5 get by on a single car, which saves us loads of $$$
One would think that it would attract people for whom MARTA is a viable option. It’s a prime reason Decatur attracted us.
Because a) it’s much more reliable than driving; and b) I can write/read/relax on a train, whereas in traffic I’m a stressed-out mess.
When I was still driving into Buckhead, sometimes it took me 45 minutes to get to work; sometimes it took 2 hrs. The drives home were even worse, especially if it was raining; it once took me an hour just to get out of Buckhead. Since I’ve been taking the train, for about a year now, I’ve been late to work twice and delayed getting home twice. That’s a pretty impressive track record (no pun intended).
If you live in Decatur and work Downtown, MARTA is a dream. Get exercise walking to the station (or drive and park at Avondale or East Lake if desperately late) then read at station and on train, then walk some more. Get coffee either before getting on train in Decatur or once get to Georgia State or Five Points. It’s the good life.
I used to do this for 9 months out of the year. But it’s just not practical from June through August if you live or work more than a few blocks from a Marta station. Unless, of course, you have a job where it’s OK to be a sweaty, stinking mess
Antiperspirants worked for me. And of course ladies don’t sweat.
Seriously, I found taking the train in heat doable but the limiting factor for me was time. I would have every good intention of walking to MARTA but then the morning time warp would hit and I’d end up driving to a station. At least that kept me cooler longer. And a few times, due to my own poor personal planning, I’d miss the train I needed to get home in time for kids or appointments and then I’d have to hope there was a taxi when I got to the Decatur station. But whether I walked or drove to the station, I always found the down time at the station and on the train to be excellent as thinking or reading time. And sometimes I would have wonderful conversations when I happened to bump into a friend or acquaintance or gregarious stranger. None of this happens in my current, boring, annoying car commute to a location with no public transit. The only saving grace is listening to NPR.
I really, really miss commuting on MARTA.
I am pretty sure you do have a job that allows that.
That’s it. No Jack and Coke slushie for you whenever Victory finally opens!
Hee. I love this website.
re: sweat, see if your workplace might be willing to put in a small shower to facilitate walking and (especially) biking to work. Obviously not feasible for all employers, but I just asked at my place because we’re about to move into a new building which they’ll be re-doing for the new tenant,and it’s going to happen.
All of that is true, but the flip side is that commuting by car from Decatur to downtown ATL is no problem either. It’s a reliable 18 minutes straight down DeKalb Ave, gives me more flexibility to deal with post-work kid activities/practices, and it puts less than 5k miles on my car per year.
I take MARTA sometimes, I bike sometimes, I even jog – but none of those options are appreciably better than just driving.
One word: Parking.
For many jobs, that adds another 15-20 minutes because of the location of decks, the time to navigate them, not to mention the cost and safety.
My wife always finds it amusing that people at work question her about the safety of using MARTA after dark, but don’t seem concerned at all about walking through a parking garage (not to mention the far greater risks associated with driving in Atlanta).
BTW, I understand the work/kids/after school activities crunch. But I found that it was just as quick to take the train to East Lake, Decatur, or Avondale stations and then drive on to sherpa duty. The only hitch is if I was a good citizen of the earth and walked to the station instead of driving but then didn’t leave enough time coming home or got one of those. Not to mention those “Your child has a fever and must be picked up now.” calls from school or daycare…….hence, the occasional taxi. But the truth is that, for true emergencies, the school will call an ambulance. Otherwise, if I had to walk and take 40 instead of 20 minutesto pick my child up, not a disaster; in fact many parents would have to take that long even if they drove the whole way. In fact, I’m a lot more stressed now having to drive the whole way to pick my kids up, never knowing which day the traffic and lights will be with me and which days they are against. me.
I’m really glad that MARTA works for all of you. But it doesn’t work for me. Would I take it if it could transport me to Buckhead in less time? Damn right I would. But none of the three MARTA stations in Buckhead is in a position that would allow me to get to work on time.
If you work in downtown, it is a dream. If you work at Lenox, it’s a dream. But if you work in between like I do, it doesn’t work. Outside the perimeter is even worse.
But thanks Smith and some of the others for the unnecessary backlash. Very constructive!
Backlash? Huh? The discussion was around whether this development would add too many cars onto Downtown Decatur streets. Someone said they thought that the development would draw folks who like taking MARTA. You said MARTA for the most part doesn’t go where people want to go. Folks answered that it sure takes Decaturites to Downtown Atlanta pretty well and the trains are full during commuting hours. You said but it doesn’t take you to Buckhead well.
Why is that backlash? I’d call it a discussion. It isn’t that MARTA is all good or MARTA is all bad. MARTA works great for limited purposes and many of us wish it would work better for more destinations and more people.
You’re right – not everyone. Just Smith, whose sarcastic remark pissed me off. And I’m generally pissed off because MARTA isn’t nearly as good as an option as the public transportation options in the northeast.
If one has enjoyed public transit in the past, whether it be in New York, Chicago, Boston, D.C., Europe, short stretches on MARTA to Downtown Atlanta or the airport, wherever, it is SO frustrating not to be able to use it anymore. Commuting out West usually involved a car but at least there was open sky, mountain views, dry air. My commuting now feels like dead time, dead air, dead views of shopping strips, fossil fuel spewn in the air, pieces of life thrown away.
I take the train to midtown and it only takes about 25-30 minutes. If you use the trip planner it eliminates waiting on the train and it usually comes within a couple of minutes. On the way home I’m too lazy to do that from my phone so it can take a little longer. For some reason they run short trains and sometimes it takes longer than getting into town. My biggest Marta frustration are the left side escalator standers! What the????
As for the computer rendering, I don’t recall the Franklin Printing parking lot being quite that pastoral.
But if you see it in an architectural rendering, it’s real. Which is really nice, because that corner was nothing special.
Five stories – that’s an awfully tall building for that corner, isn’t it?
I too am worried about the traffic. 300 additional cars coming and going in that intersection will make it close to impossible to navigate Commerce in any reasonable amount of time in the morning.
Agreed on both points.
The same concern was raised about the Artisan and the proposed development on W Ponce. It was pointed out that the cars don’t come and go all at once and most are coming and going in non-peak hours.
And the Artisan has not had any negative impact at all that I can see. In fact some residents are former COD single-family home owners. Several are quite active on the civic and community scene.
Understand, but I don’t think you can compare the two because the locations, while both on Commerce, have drastically different impacts on commuting through our city.
Those of us coming from the WP/ASC side of the tracks use Commerce to get to Clairemont. There really is no other way.
From the Artisan you have the option to go to Clairemont or to Ponce, both of which are main streets out of the city.
Couldn’t one leave via Church from that direction?
Of course, but not if you’re trying to get to Buckhead, unless you’ve got a route in mind.
But you still have to get to Church, which is already clogged up in the morning.
One of the conditions the DDA said should be included is access from all three streets. And, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen Artisan residents or visitors user the Marshall St entrance off of Ponce. Everybody uses the Commerce Dr entrance/exit.
Not everybody. I rarely use the Commerce entrance/exit; I find the Marshall one to be more convenient. Visitors can’t use the Marshall Street entrance – it is for “cardholders only”, ie, residents or people who rent parking spaces (mostly Emory folks who work next door, from my observations).
I like the adjacent Existing Building’s setback shown on the Street Level Plan much more than the proposed building’s setback.
It’s great to see downtown development happening again. It feels like years since the last real proposal took shape, I guess because it was years ago! Overall, the project looks well designed and meant to address a lot of the community’s concerns. I appreciate the affordable rental component, and the emphasis on pedestrian access between Church and Clairemont.
I do wonder why there’s only one retail space in addition to the Bank of America? It seems like a lot more street level retail could be fit in. The plan does reference live/work studios on ground level, and maybe that is meant to encourage artist studios or other retail.
When is this likely to be done? Factor in 12 mos. of major work to get albatross, I mean home, ready to sell, 6 months to sell it…………….
The picture and the street level plan are different. The BOA is not in the same place and the entrances and exits are not shown.
How or would this development affect the space allotted to the farmer’s market? It’s still next door, right? What about parking?
It’s been a long time since I’ve had the pleasure to visit Decatur, so forgive my bad memory.
I think it’s time to find a new location for the Wednesday farmers market. The EAV Thursday market and the Grant Park Sunday market are becoming destinations, and I think location has a lot to do with it. Has anyone heard that the Decatur market may be managed by the Grant Park folks soon?
oh man I hope so. There is so much potential for Decatur’s farmers markets. I mean, isn’t it obvious that it should be on the square rather than under a big tree??
I don’t know about the renters. A lot of them will probably be the type who drive 10 year old cars, shop at Walmart and rely on Publix BOGOs because they aren’t rich enough to eat out every night!
I guess my only real question would be this: Do I make my own sign protesting this monstrosity? Or should I just steal my neighbor’s “Stop Walmart” one and repurpose it?
Might as well use your neighbor’s sign. It’s useless anyway.
Silly Steve. That was a rhetorical question. Of course, that was my plan all along…
That was a rhetorical answer.
I am amazed and pleased that there are 30+ comments and so far none are negative.
I also can’t believe that the people who fought so hard against the Wachovia site won’t be against this, too. I hope I am wrong as this would be a terrific and (at least from the drawing and description) appropriately-scaled addition to the downtown fabric of Decatur.
Speaking as one who fought the Wachovia building project, this looks OK to me. It is very similar in size and scale but a huge difference that it is not sitting adjacent to single family homes. All driveways here will open onto major traffic arteries not small residential neighborhood streets. Delivery trucks for the retail businesses will not be winding around/congesting small residential streets like Ponce Place, Montgomery and Fairview.
Not sure exactly how this parking space/unit ratio stacks up to the initial proposal for the Wachovia building. Personally , I think they may be a bit short on spaces. I predict there will be very close to 300 resident cars here . Not needing a car for daily commute doesn’t mean these residents won’t have cars. More likely, I think they will own cars and be thrilled to not use them very often. If those cars stay parked during most week days, it could mean parking problems for customers of the retail businesses. At least here there are not adjacent neighborhood streets to serve as overflow parking lots. Here, no space in the deck – park at a metered spot on the adjacent streets.
If I were considering renting an apartment or leasing retail space here, I’d ask detailed questions about how parking spaces are to be assigned and how parking rules are to be enforced.
I’m certain there’s a standard allotment of parking spaces required per bedroom(or some other metric). If the developer isn’t asking for a variance, then this should hit that mark.
The staff report link says the project requires 250 parking spaces by code and that the developer is proposing 300.
I, for one, hope that we can stop being concerned about housing our cars and more concerned about how our buildings impact our people. If there aren’t enough places to park, and that’s a concern, then people won’t rent the apartments. We shouldn’t require the developer to build more parking than he sees fit in order to attract tenants. Looks to me that this building will positively impact our downtown. A good addition to the street scape, a needed addition to the housing stock – offering alternatives that are currently lacking. Adding more parking to the project would be a negative.
If there isn’t enough parking and people from this and other high density complexes park all along our narrow residential streets – it impacts our people. If out of town customers stay away from the businesses because they perceive a lack of available parking ( to most this means free) – it impacts our people.
I agree that this building can positively impact downtown. Regardless of what the city requires, I think there may be times when parking gets tight at this property if it reaches a point of full occupancy. That doesn’t mean I am against the project. I am not saying that the developer should be required to build more parking spaces.
I am saying we need to be realistic about the fact that, for now, the vast majority of people who choose to live in Decatur will own a car even if they most often bike or use public transport. Most people who visit the retail businesses in our downtown shopping district drive to shop.
There are empty parking spaces all around town – some in decks, some metered on the street yet people regularly park in neighborhoods or on the sidewalk in front of Taqueria rather than in a near by metered space or public parking deck. This is a reality.
We do need to think about where the cars will park. That doesn’t have to mean building more parking spaces. We need to have a city wide plan to get the cars into the available spaces. Ideas I’ve heard include promoting cooperation among various property owners to have shared overflow plans , better coordinated and more visible signage to identity available public parking, a PR campaign to encourage people to be willing to park a few blocks away from their destination and shuttle service from parking areas like the County deck to shops and restaurants.
I look forward to hearing the final report from the citizen task force looking at zoning/ parking / quality of life issues. I hope that their recommendations can be put in place before this and other already approved high density projects are completed and occupied.
Just to be clear: This is that big empty lot on the corner of Church and Commerce, on the same side of Commerce as Decatur Hosptial, on the opposite side of Church from where the Wednesday Decatur Farmer’s Market is held? Where there used to be a gas station once and then for while a flea/crafts market was held weekly?
No, it’s where the BOA currently sits, along with its parking lot where the farmers market sets up.
At what point does Decatur, specifically downtown Decatur, become too dense? This is just a question. And I don’t know or claim to know the answer.
I favor more density. More the better. But that point should be (and probably has been) debated.
More density the better. We’re a long, long way off before downtown Decatur has the kind of residential density we really need.
Bulldog, good question. It’s fantastic that we live in a city where that is even a concern. However, I don’t think we’re anywhere too close. Not only are there several other empty parking lots ripe for development, I think there’s several redevelopment opportunities as well. If the owners of the CVS shopping plaza ever decide to redevelop, it would look much more like the Artisan than it does now.
But at what point are we too dense from a residential standpoint? That’s a bit different that redevelopment of some of the empty parking lots for commercial reasons.
In 1960, Decatur’s population was almost 3,000 more residents than it is today so we’ve definitely got some room to grow.
Whoa – 3,000 more residents 50 years ago? Was this mostly more people sharing each home, or were there more residences back then?
As I understand it, there was not much in the way of downtown residents but the average family size per home was a good bit higher than it is now. Today, we’ve got a lot of DINKs or households with 1 or 2 kids. I think at the height of the baby boom, many/most families in Decatur were a lot bigger.
When my father was growing up in the 1940s, his family of 5 lived in a 1100 square foot home. That was not unusual at all at the time. A typical family today would consider that a starter home, or one suitable for a single person or a couple. So I can imagine things were a lot more dense.
That house was demolished and replaced by an office. Some of what was housing stock back then is commercial space now. Church St. was not the busy street it is now, and it was primarily residential.
Far more single people, especially women, in Decatur now than there were fifty years ago.
Scott would have much better ideas along this line, but I would expect density to be a moving target. If all Decatur residents get in their cars and drive to work each morning, then the transportation infrastructure would be maxed out at a lower density than if we all sit home in our PJs and post to DM all day.
So, Daren, you can get me a job doing that?
I can’t even get ME a job doing that.
Is there such a thing as “too dense from a residential standpoint”? If we can avoid overloading the school system, and use municipal code to guide/lead the built environment in the directions we want, i.e., nothing too tall, manage traffic, etc. then where is the down side? Not challenging you, just wondering what makes you ask.
Just curious. Packing in the people could overload the schools and create transit issues. I get worried about the possibility of things being overbuilt.
I still argue that many of the traffic issues in Decatur currently are the cause of the intersections and inefficiencies in the street grid. These are things that can improve mobility even as population increases.
The traffic signals are a huge deal and I wonder what changes we’ll see when the city finally takes over control of that in a couple years.
Intersection design is another problem that the city is currently working actively on, especially along the CSX line.
Also, I think that many of the folks arguing for road diets on some roads, are also arguing for MORE streets elsewhere to create more inter-connectivity. See the DDDA’s condition in this plan or the idea of extending Fairview across West Ponce.
And also that the planning for Church/Commerce includes restoring Williams Street behind the McDonalds, so that it connects Church with Clairemont. There’s currently a lot of traffic that makes the Church / right on Commerce / right on Clairemont maneuver (not sure where they’d be coming from or going, but a lot of people do it). Williams will provide an alternative means of doing this, keeping that traffic off Commerce.
Forget the roads, let’s start with the walking/biking trail along the creek from Garden Lane to Northern and Ponce!
“The traffic signals are a huge deal and I wonder what changes we’ll see when the city finally takes over control of that in a couple years.”
I wasn’t aware the city was taking them over. I hope the signals at Commerce and Ponce are re-timed so it’s easier to cross there, specifically going from Artisan to Suntrust.
I hadn’t realized about city control for the lights was coming- what a great thing. CoD will be so much more responsive and thoughtful than is the County, if only for the fact that the city will have many fewer lights on which to focus attention.
Yes. For the love of baby jeebus, yes.
Is there still a sign up about mixed use development in the parking lot next to the Artisan on Commerce? There was talk several years ago before the bubble burst of selling Decatur First Bank’s air rights for residential or office development. I wonder when that space will finally be put back into use.
This seems like a good project, but I would like to see more retail. Perahps the fitness center could be moved.
Can anyone tell me the status of the 315 West Ponce and Trinity Triangle developments? These seem similar to this plan. I thought both had been approved, and if so, why have those not been built? Are the developers just waiting for the economy to improve, and are these subject to re-review at some point? It seems with the valid competing concerns about density, traffic, neighborhood character, pedestrian access and the like, a incremental approach to large developments like this would be warranted. Is it possible that all 3 of these developments could be constructed at the same time? If so, there won’t be much of a learning curve.
The devil is in the details. remember, large developers are interested in one thing.. and it’s not community.
Also, i wouldn’t assume that children are a drain on this or any community. The school system was/is probably the biggest draw for people moving to decatur. And business isn’t just a gain for a community. especially one like decuatur which doesn’t have it’s own sales tax. Most of that money is going to dekalb county. property taxes are paying for the overwhelming bulk of this community (i.e. housing) not business.
” i wouldn’t assume that children are a drain on this or any community.” — In purely financial terms, they are. Not saying we should do away with the little buggers, they can be fun to have around and somebody’s got to be around to get left holding the bag when we’re all decrepit. But in terms of community planning, we need to recognize that households with children are indeed revenue negative.
Except for the ones who go to private school.
But most of the people who are moving in with kids aren’t planning on doing that. And anyway, there aren’t enough of those fancy Montessori places to house all the inmates.
I know. Just sayin’.
You rang …?
very excited to see a development like this in the works
Definitely nice to see downtown go higher density. But, is it me, or does this look exactly like the Artisan but with a BofA in place of Ted’s?
Not just you. I did a double-take myself.
It’s the only plan they could afford from the developers book of cheap, looks like it could be anywhere, fantastic book of plans. The book is actually 1 plan copied 500 times and then bound together.
Love the fake stucco on some of the upper stories. I’m sure we can look forward to it’s replacement in a couple of years just like the Artisans and the other condo development who’s name escapes me right now. Should be banned from construction in Decatur to my mind.
The only other problem I see is that it has no Walmart! How can this be?
Having flashbacks to 2008! Need to go hunting for my old replies…
Towne Square was the other one.
Thank you, my memory isn’t what it used to be but my tastes remain the same.
Read the source material. The DDDA resolution supporting the development states “The developer commits to the use of durable, sustainable building material for the exterior, including brick, metal and/or hard coat stucco and specifically not using synthetic stucco materials commonly referred to as EIFS.” Also, the stucco at the Artisan is hard coat (aka “real”) stucco. The remediation work at the Artisan now on-going is to fix problems with installation, not with the materials.
“The remediation work at the Artisan now on-going is to fix problems with installation, not with the materials.”
I assume this is part of a settlement Artisan HOA reached with developer?
That’s right. The settlement involved several parties, incluidng the developer and the contractors and stucco subcontractors on both phases of construction. The Artisan was built in two phases, one right after the other, but with different contractors and subs. The remediation work involves various facets, the main being stucco,.
Here’s a nice article about cladding including a bit about what they call the hard coat myth.
http://www.prospectbuildingscience.com/content.php?page=si
Installation of both these systems is problematical. You got to keep the water out period. Cheap unskilled labor is not conducive to the level of care necessary to apply these products effectively. Both of the other buildings were inspected by our diligent city inspectors and both had problems.
My initial statement stands. Ban these systems from Decatur buildings.
Um, just curious here, unless you are either the developer or a tenant, you are a third party to the material selection. What dog do you have in that fight? How does the inclusion of EIFS or hardcoat stucco adversly affect the public at large whereby it warrants a change to the building code to make these prohibitied systems?
I just don’t get what you are getting at. The very article you cite says, in bolded emphasis and in italics in the original: “When properly installed or remediated, and if properly maintained, no other exterior cladding provides its homeowner with such an upscale appearance reminiscent of European and Mediterrean styling as does stucco.” The “myth” they are talking about is the notion (held by I don’t know who) that somehow real stucco is “immune” from potential moisture problems. Of course it isn’t. Of course it has to be properly installed. The article doesn’t say that proper installation is somehow not possible.
The article sited is written by a company that makes its living selling stucco inspection services. The “myth” they tout is a way to make people “realize” they need the services they sell, even if they have “real” stucco. I’m not saying you don’t, but the auther of source material, if cited, is relevant.
What I’m getting at is that a problem exists and both buildings were inspected and still had problems. That indicates to me that the installation of this material would seem to be beyond the ability of the contractors to install correctly or that it’s too expensive to install correctly. It also seems that the inspectors that sign off on the buildings can’t determine when the material has been installed correctly
since both buildings have had to be redone. Can it be done? Yes. Will it done right? Probably not.
The site I reference gave the clearest indication of the problem. Even a cursory search of the internet will turn up many more. I did try to avoid the ones that were complete broker or builder babble.
I think Hudsucker has a valid point for at least discussing further. I worked for John Wieland Homes for a while and at the time they had major redmediation work on many, many stucco homes that had mold growth from poor installation. JWH has a reputation for high quality homes, and clearly neither their PM’s nor the inspectors caught this issue before it became a faisco.
Now to the impact on both properties in Decatur, I know of at least one homeowner who was caught in limbo due to this pending issue. They couldn’t sell because no one wanted to inherit this mess. They also couldn’t rent the place out because of covenant restrictions.
I believe any kind of stucco material is not usable in residential construction in Decatur. One can only wonder why its allowed in commercial construction.
I suppose it’s the same reason cram downs are possible in commercial buildings. Residential? Not so much. Professional courtesy perhaps?
I also understand that the framing of residential is wood were as commercial is usually reinforced concrete or steel. Still if it falls off the wall into the street it’s a bad thing.
I support development, at this location and throughout Decatur (except on one lane Civil War era roads. This is an attempt by a mean old conservative at humor. You may think, Yeah, Very Little Humor- Add smiley face). Seems to me that more vehicles will access this area. Smart Growth policies produces more vehicles in a smaller area. But I think this looks like a winner.
One thing. Something most of you never think about because you haven’t lived here long and you don’t know s__t (again humor and smiley face). This has to do with sewer. Years ago at a commission meeting, Mr. Charles McKiney, who knew quite a lot about s__t (our sewer system), told the commissioners that our sewer system was very old and needed to be updated. This develpment will stress our sewer facilities. Where will the sewer of this development go? Towards the sewer line east of the cemetery? This line occasionally overflows into the Glenlake Park creek. Something to consider.
Most of you people think that I don’t know s__t but in fact, I dodo (Just had to. Years ago, a teacher at DHS referred to my sophomoric humor. Some things never change).
Have you been hanging out with J_T?
I can neither confirm nor deny this rumor. However, I can promise you that if Mr. B ever comes to Trackside, I will buy him as much Jager as he can drink!
I hate to get anyone’s up hope up unnecessarily, but I heard from a reliable source that this particular development has caused Trader Joe’s to reconsider its refusal to open a store in Decatur.
I am going to open a Traitor Toes just to mess with you people.
Anything — anything — that slows down the Suicide Speedway (Commerce) is aces with me.
A few questions:
The developer wants a variance to allow a drive-thru for the bank. I’m not sure how this would work. Would it increase traffic on Clairemont? Or would not having a drive-thru actually cause more problems?
As of now, there is no plan for “inter-parcel connectivity” for the three streets in question. Not sure how they would address this issue, but it’s an important one if making the city more pedestrian friendly is a key goal.
Will there be additional traffic signals on any of these streets? Perhaps I missed this info in the source material.
Overall, I think this is a good development that addresses the need for more rental property in the city. If the three issues above, especially the second, are addressed, this plan is a slam dunk.
Note it’s an “exception” rather than a “variance,” meaning that it can be granted by the city commission rather than the ZBA. It’s not really a traffic issue, as it will be an identical use to what’s there now. It’s a walkability thing, in that the city tries to limit curb cuts where cars cross sidewalks. In this case, because BOA currently has two cuts already, the developer’s plan may not improve the current situation but it won’t make it any worse either. So it’s up to the commission’s discretion.
DM – maybe its only me who reads the site from a kindle fire but I cant see my comments while typing them on it because the keyboard covers the box we type in. Maybe the box could get raised?
Next question: what do you think these apartments will rent for per month? $1000 for a studio?
“Based on DeKalb’s median income levels and HUD’s recommendation that housing not exceed 30% of income, the staff report calculates a monthly rate of $971 for these “lifecycle” units “