The Medlock Area Neighborhood Association website has photos of the six concept sketches displayed at last night’s Medlock/Suburban Plaza/Walmart meeting last night of both the new Walmart and the rehabbed Suburban Plaza.
Latest from Decaturish
Gone2seed
hipmama
MomofBoys
lumpintheroad
JC
AED
Daydreamer
thaibasil
mcdonough property o…
At Home in Decatur
At Home in Decatur
Steve
BeezieB
Jay
thaibasil
I like the trees along N. Decatur Rd.
Looks like a regular ol’ Wal-Mart to me. Nothing “urban” about that exterior design. I think there needs to be a concerted effort by the various neighboring communities to “assist” Selig in this project. This is NOT an “Urban” design concept. It’s a strip mall w/ a contemporary facade.
I will say this, they are pushing that building all the way to the N. Decatur curb which is somewhat refreshing from a design prospect. It will certainly allow them to have more covered parking.
I would love to see how the proposed Clifton line incorporates into the Selig drawings. I’ve seen it from MARTA’s perspective but am interested in seeing how Selig envisions its placement.
BTW- What’s their proposed delivery date for this project?
The proposed Clifton line doesn’t figure into the Selig drawings at all – Selig and Wal-Mart have seen CCTA’s drawings, but they said CCTA hasn’t contacted them about the line.
You’re right but I think Selig will say that it’s currently a strip mall with a crumbling facade, so how is this any worse? But who knows, you may get Wal-Mart to alter things a bit if you press hard enough. It will come down to the $$$, of course, and the fact that they’re bulding underground parking may mean they won’t be too flexible on the rest of it. Just speculating.
There’s nothing urban or pedestrian oriented about these illustrations because, ultimately, form follows zoning. Review DeKalb’s commercial ordinance. Each component (parking, setbacks and buffers, allowable use, density, FARs, etc.) is like a piece of a puzzle that, when combined with all the others, results in a box anchored strip mall. So that’s what’s gonna get built, regardless of all this neighborhood engagement.
The variables you’ll be able to influence are largely aesthetic. I believe DeKalb has a mixed-use, transit oriented “neighborhood center” ordinance now but I don’t think it is applied in any way to this property.
But Scott, weren’t similar variables in play at Howell Mill and they eventually caved in and provided a more aesthetic concept design versus the same old strip mall which I believe was their intent on that site as well. Granted, I believe they were working with a blank canvass in that they were building from the ground up on the Howell Mill Site.
What I see from them here is nothing more than a facade re-do on a majority of the site. Given the fact that transit may flow beneath this site, and they are adding underground parking, this site is also a candidate for a complete redevelopment. Granted, I’m not spending their money for them, but this site will undergo some major changes. Why not attempt to force their hand on it and require a higher use from the site.
I won’t pretend to have any expertise on the Howell Mill location but what I recall is that the circumstances were different in some important ways. Most notably, I believe the developer needed some key variances to make the project work economically. That gives the surrounding community greater negotiating power because the developer needs/greatly benefits from their support in trying to secure them. Such support can really only be attained through a process in which neighbors have more meaningful impact on what’s being designed.
Again, I’m not all that up to date on specifics but my sense is that, in the Suburban Plaza scenario, Walmart is already entitled to build pretty much exactly what they want to build, so there’s little or no incentive for them to deal. Instead, they’ll play nice in the form of aesthetics, landscaping, etc. to ensure they don’t alienate future customers but, beyond that, I’m highly skeptical they’ll change much from what you see here. There’s just no reason for them to do so.
I would like to be wrong on this, but don’t think I am.
Scott – Do you really think, and I really am curious – that Selig / Wal-Mart are willing to build a $10 million dollar car park for this site? I have my doubts on that; but it is part of their plan. So, if they are not willing, shouldn’t we anticipate them coming to a public entity (DeKalb taxpayers) for help? If they do, then we have the opportunity to extract from them something besides future blight, no?
Beyond the “temperature taking” that happened a while back when the idea of DeKalb-backed loans or subsidies or some such was floated, everything I’ve seen has indicated that Walmart plans to pay for construction of their underground parking themselves and is not seeking any financial inducements. I don’t have any info to the contrary so my comments above assume that fact.
I agree with you completely that, if they were looking for money or similar financial incentives, resident negotiating power re: meaningful design changes would be increased. I just don’t think that’s going to be the case.
It looks like you’re right. Walmart Guy (who’s just as addicted to Decatur Metro as the rest of us!) was very quick to shut down the requests to limit deliveries hours, put up a noise barrier on the property line, etc. with the “We will comply with County ordinances” stance. In response to folks not wanting it to be a 24 hour store, he said that hours would be determined by the competition, then mentioned Publix and Big Kroger. He was also very reluctant to commit to the Walmart merchandising team to meeting with the neighorhoods for input on the merchandise mix (guns & ammo was raised)– in fact, so much so that someone (I think Daddy Selig) stepped in and said that such a meeting WOULD happen!
(Not sure if it’s clear to everyone from y’all’s Howell Mill Walmart discussions that it is also a Selig project.)
WalMart is interested in making an “investment” into this property because they expect it to pay off. This smaller neighborhood type store seems to be an “infill” strategy, and with landlords desperate to make deals in this poor economy, they are taking advantage of a bargain price to secure a presence in a more upscale neighborhood. Think about the returns they expect on this investment over the years to come…all from a prosperous Decatur community. I can’t decide if’ it’s good or bad….but they are throwing their weight and money around, that’s for sure.
I disagree that the facade is contemporary. It’s not painted white with a blue stripe (whew) but it has an ugly entrance and looks a lot like a big boring box.
But now people are happy about it accepting it so quickly so there’s no incentive to do any better, anything creative.
Big Lots in an empty building sounds like a very good plan. Oakhurst?
At the meeting, both Selig and the Walmart representative made it clear that the design of the Walmart shown at the meeting is not the final design for this project. They stated that they would have community input sessions (this was the first) to get local design ideas. Selig admitted that the redesign of the remainder of Suburban Plaza and the design of the Walmart store shown were not a joint effort but will be eventually. IMO, showing the aerial rendering of the Walmart above was a strategic mistake. How do you make a 150,000 square foot roof look good?
I see this is going to be a Wal Mart kind of a day.
An “urban” concept in Suburban Plaza? The irony.
Why does the drawing neglect to include the 90,000 cars all backed up in the lot, because of 1 idiot willing to wait his life away for one of those front spaces? Maybe that only happens at the Tucker Walmart.
Oh, you’ve touched on a hot topic for me!
I am in and out of parking garages all the time. I get so irritated when people drive so damn slow through these garages to make sure they don’t miss that one spot on a lower level. And I really hate when people slowly drive behind someone walking to their car in hopes of getting their spot. So not only do we have to wait for the people to walk to their car, we have to wait for them to get in and get situated before pulling out of the space before the lazy person can pull in. This holds everyone else up. IT’S A PARKING GARAGE, JUST KEEP DRIVING UNTIL YOU EVENTUALLY COME UPON THAT HUGE AREA THAT DOESN’T HAVE ANY CARS, THEN PARK YOUR LAZY BUTT THERE! QUIT HOLDING UP A WHOLE LINE OF CARS SO YOU CAN FIND JUST THE RIGHT SPOT ON A LOWER LEVEL!!
I’m done.
Add to that the bozos that insist on backing in to their parking spot (which takes twice as long). Complete idiots. They couldn’t care less about the line of cars behind them.
Backing in takes no longer than backing out, so I see nothing wrong with backing in. My main beef with regard to parking is laziness. Who cares if you get a space fifty feet closer to the store? You still end up walking hundreds and hundreds of yards while you’re inside the store, so what difference does it make?
Leaving aside the questionable point about backing out taking just as long, backing in blocks traffic while backing out requires the parked car to wait for traffic to pass.
Not questionable at all, but since it’s off topic I won’t push you to defend your stance, even though I’d love a good laugh.
Be nice.
finally a super wal-mart for white people who don’t want to drive ALL THE WAY to memorial & S Columbia. *rolls eyes*
Dear Walrus and others,
May you never get old and arthritic. May you never be recovering from serious surgery. May you always be healthy and pain-free and able to walk great distances.
Fair enough, but the people I see do not fit into this category. Also, almost every garage has elevators.
Come on AMB- Seriously???
I realize that looks can be deceiving, and everyone who isn’t capable of walking long distances, don’t always look frail. I go out with my parents who are not capable of walking very far, and I go out from time to with a friend who has MS, and we have to take a wheelchair along. THOSE ARE NOT THE PEOPLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT. I just assumed I wouldn’t have to say something like that, for it to be understood. I wasn’t even referring to handicapped spots to be honest. Try going to the Tucker Walmart and watch the isles get backed up 10-15 cars deep waiting on the first few spots at the front of the isles (the normal ones), it’s been a major mess every time I have been.
Yeah, we are a lazy people for sure. I can’t stand being in a car with someone that will drive around a parking lot fifteen times to get that spot up front when we could have already been in the store had we parked in one of the hundred spots further away.
Doh!
The isles of Walmart are lovely this time of year. I believe you can still use the dollar as currency on them as well.
If only Walmart had an isle, I might be able to afford a vacation!
Ba-dump-TSSHHH! Try the veal, folks– he’ll be here all week!
Ooooh, I would stay away from the veal around here. Remember that cow tongue on the Square? Let’s just leave it at that…
How can you tell from 90,000 cars back if the “idiot” waiting for a close parking spot is elderly or disabled.
Yes, most parking lots have elevators. They also have multiple entrances and exits. Take a deep breath and go around.
Thank you for figuring it out for me!!! Man, I had never even considered going around before! I wish you could see the huge smile on my face for having this problem solved for me.
Fine then. If you can’t use another entrance, then just take that deep breath I mentioned. And hold it for a very long time.
If I do that, then I will back up the traffic behind me. I will not go out like that!
If people could get around there wouldn’t be a backup. Doesn’t matter anyhow, after several negative experiences there that had nothing to do with parking, I no longer go there.
To those who have expressed concern about an increase in traffic: I’d like to point out that there was a time, decades ago, when Suburban Plaza was filled with large, new tenants like Winn Dixie and Belk. Considering that traffic in the immediate area was surely worse in the 50’s-60’s than it is currently, this concern confuses me. Do nearby residents not want to see the area thrive? Honestly, they live in a commercial district.
Not being argumentative but I’m truly curious why you think traffic was worse in the 1950s/60s. Wasn’t that a time of one car per family? Husbands took bus to work or wife dropped them off or wife had no car at all until husband got home from work? Only a minority of teens had their own car–most borrowed the family car? Buses were more frequent and ubiquitous? People shopped locally vs. driving via an interstate to a mall?
I wasn’t around then, but I based my viewpoint on the appeal any new commercial development can have. People are drawn to new shopping centers filled with large, desirable tenants. This applies to Suburban Plaza just as much now as it did during the 50’s-60’s.
But you’re right, a lot has changed in terms of cars per household, more frequent buses, etc. Hadn’t considered those factors.
In the meantime, how much has the traffic flow exiting/entering the Clifton Corridor increased? I ‘d say tremendously.
Does anyone know what this will mean for Last Cance Thrift Store? I love that place!!
I would prefer not to support Chinamart and all of its banality. What makes this area great is the lack of that kind of thing. If you want Walmart then drive out to Tucker or Stone Mountain.
Awful, Awful news
The lack of that kind of thing? You’re aware of the Big Lots, the cheap-o grocery store, the Publix up the street, the strip of car lots (including all the empty ones), the other shopping centers, and North DeKalb Mall, with its other Publix and CiCi’s Pizza. Forgive me for not considering these things hallmarks of a charming, quaint, or otherwise unique area. Did I mention the dead Pizza Hut?
Seriously, let’s not distract ourselves by pretending that this is downtown Decatur. It’s an old, kinda-crappy, run-down strip center. This proposal turns it into a new, kinda-crappy, not-run-down-yet strip center. It’s already sucking up land and wasting space, so if this makes it more productive, I’m all for it.
On the other hand, comments about how it’s mostly a new facade are correct – but make sure you’re not only vilifying Wal-Mart or Selig for that. Seen anything that Sembler’s been doing? How about Kroger, Target, etc? They’re all equally bad if given the chance.
Even Downtown Decatur, great as it is relative to metro Atlanta, has a horrid McDonalds, a mediocre CVS, a Ruby Tuesday that is seemingly always mostly empty, and a Kroger that is no great shakes compared to some other Krogers.
I must pipe in on the “lack of that kind of thing” comment as well.
Not sure how well you know our area, but there are already 2 Super Wal-Mart’s that are a lot closer to Decatur than Stone Mountain and Tucker. They’re in Avondale Estates (less than 1 mile from the southeast Decatur city limits) and at I-20 and Gresham Rd (about 2.5 miles south of the southwest Decatur city limits).
These are a heck of a lot closer than Stone Mountain and Tucker.
I agree. walmart is all about sellng cheap stuff from china or where ever they can make it for less. people scream about how much they love america, but they buy all their stuff from china. who among us is willing to have less/pay more so that people here have jobs?
Yes! Absolutely!!
I find the Levi’s I buy at Macy’s soooo much better than the ones I buy at Walmart.
Not sure if you know this, but some people who can’t afford to go to more expensive stores really appreciate Walmart. I would bet dollars to donuts that you have Apple products in your possession. I love how they have completely gotten a free pass…
It’s simple. Walmart sucks but Target is chic; Microsoft is the devil but Apple is awesome. All that proves is that marketing works!
Testify, brothah!
I suspect the reaction to a Target in this location would be different, even though they essentially sell the same cheap crap as Walmart.
Besides the parking lot and deck, I can just see the cars piling up in a traffic jam on N. Decatur and all surrounding roads. Of course, I’ll be right there shopping at Wal-Mart but I doubt Decaturites can even remotely hope to ride the bicycles or walk to this location with all the heavy traffic. And to JB: if traffic confuses you, take a drive and look at the traffic around the Howell Mill Wal-Mart.
Regardless of traffic, since bulky, heavy things like kitty litter and laundry detergent are likely to be what I would buy at a Walmart, walking the 3.5 miles there and back is probably not likely . . . even with my little red wagon.
I haven’t read all the comments so I don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but wouldn’t it be nice to see a sidewalk for peds along N Decatur Rd.
Pipe dream, I know, but I wish the City of Decatur could buy the land and revert it all to green space. Baby Piedmont park. How great would that be? You could triple SPLOST me for that!
Heh heh heh. She said “SPLOST me”.
This following was posted by one of my neighbors on our neighborhood listserve. I thought that it was well reasoned and insightful and would contribute to the discussion here.
As someone who has done business with Walmart for a long time, I can confirm that opening a store in SP is perfectly aligned to their new “tailored” demographic strategy. The adjacent neighborhoods’ demographics are very attractive to them. Walmart’s core base of stores reflects their historical roots, predominantly located in what are classified as “C&D” counties. These are basically rural locations, and mostly older store formats referred to as “Division 1″ stores. Walmart and Target are both very in tune to shifting demographic trends, particularly what is being referred to as the re-urbanization of America. The high costs of gas and maintaining large suburb or even exurb (beyond suburbs) homes, combined with the migration of jobs to urban areas, has created a reverse trend of people
moving back toward/into cities. Walmart and Target see this as a weakness of theirs, and are both diligently working on their penetration strategies for large metros. Target has done a nice job in the NYC boroughs, Minneapolis and Chicago in particular.
Walmart also sees the rapid expansion of “dollar” stores, which have a traditional strength in urban areas, as a threat. Dollar stores (Dollar General & Family Dollar in particular) have done a nice job in locating their stores along public transportation arteries when possible, which has paid dividends for them. Before you laugh, if you haven’t been to a Dollar General or Family Dollar, especially a new one, you should. I think that they would dispel any pre-conceived stereotypes that you might have about their product selection. Most now carry the biggest brands, like Tide, Angel Soft, Clorox, etc. at prices that frankly make Walmart nervous. The dollar store chains are realizing exponential growth, particularly in the current economy, and one can only assume that they’re considering expansion plans alone. This gives walmart a greater sense of urgency.
From a local retailer perspective, I can’t really say how I feel about the proposed store, until I had an understanding of the merchandise mix, etc.. The fact that they’re taking into account their impact on local retailers is a positive sign. There’s no way that Walmart would be able to replicate what makes the ACE store so great, and that’s the staff there. However, stores such as Pet Supermarket will definitely find themselves quickly under duress. Great folks at that store, but Walmart is very aggressive in the pet category. I’d also caution about having less concern regarding the impact on Kroger or Publix. They also anchor their own plazas, and if either of them were to withdraw from those locations as a result of this new Walmart it could created a downward spiral in those locations. Without a strong anchor store to drive traffic, the smaller format stores stand to suffer. Net, same potential issue at a different location.
I would definitely be interested in hearing about the traffic study. We travel back and forth to Emory’s Clairemont campus daily, and I can’t see how this project wouldn’t impact that trip.
I had a conversation with someone in the urban planning field about this subject recently. He made the same point: that Walmart, Target, and other big box stores are overbuilt in the declining exurbs and looking for growth in closer-in urban locations.
As a resident of Medlock on the Church street side, I am mostly concerned about an increase in traffic. This side of Medlock is already a cut through street but I fear that a Walmart in Suburban Plaza will at least double (at times) the amount of traffic zooming along the road.
As a condition for the installation of the Walmart, I would like to suggest that Medlock Road be altered to end at the Brookfield building. The road beyond (to be renamed (TBRN)) would contain mostly residential (there are some exceptions, yes). The TBRN road would have an exit at Church and, via Greylock and Eastland, at Scott Blvd.
This may not resolve all my issues, but may address the major one.