Light Rail on Clairemont Road No Longer an Option
Decatur Metro | November 2, 2010Prior to tonight’s Decatur City Commission meeting, the commission heard a presentation by the Clifton Corridor Transit Initiative, which provided an interesting piece of information that Mayor Pro-Tem Jim Baskett reiterated at the end of the commission’s regular meeting.
Apparently of the 36 options originally considered by the CCTI that would connect Decatur to Emory and Lindbergh Station through public transit, only 6 remain on the table and NONE of them bring transit down Clairemont between Scott Boulevard and Commerce Drive. All remaining options instead divert light rail or bus transit to Avondale Station via Commerce Drive.
A document put up on MARTA’s website a few weeks ago still showed an option that brought a train/bus down Clairemont, but in a subsequent conversation Mr. Baskett assured me that the CCTI presenters were clear about no Clairemont option.
As Mr. Baskett mentioned during the meeting, some folks will be happy about this while others will not.
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Uh, why not? That stretch of Clifton (especially around N. Decatur Rd.) is one of the most backed-up surface roads intown–far more than (say) the parts of Auburn and Edgewood that $$$$ streetcar project is running along.
Hell, I think a light rail stretching along Clairemont all the way from the Decatur Metro Station up to the Chamblee station (connecting the E and NE MARTA lines) would be awesome.
There’s a bus route that does that today. I watch them go past my house all day with three passengers aboard. Why would a light rail line be an improvement on that?
rail =/ bus. There are lots of people who take the MARTA from Decatur/Avondale etc. to downtown to work who would just drive in if the other option were a bus. Ditto for many of the employees of Emory and CDC.
I would use light rail on Clairemont and enjoy it. But I remember the fears of Clairemont Ave. residents sometime around ???2000??? ???1995??? when ?MARTA? and/or ?City of Decatur? put on a big info and feedback session about the light rail option. Some of the long-time residents remembered how horribly messed up Downtown Decatur was after the MARTA train and station came in and rearranged everything. They would not trust MARTA to do anything in Decatur again, especially not in front of their homes.
This is unfortunate. Incorporating the Emory area into the MARTA rail system would improve the connectivity of the system. Emory/CDC is probably the largest commercial area inside 285 without rail service.
The new line would still incorporate Emory/CDC. It just won’t go along Clairemont between Scott and Commerce.
And @ TOK: Clairemont will still be used NORTH of Scott. Just not between Scott and Commerce. And the new line would not have to go along Clairemont or Clifton exactly to serve trips through the corridor and thereby help with traffic on those streets.
Martha, why was the Clairemont option dropped? Any idea?
Because Clairmont residents showed up at all of the community outreach programs and were very vocal in stating their NIMF(ront)Y stance…
Please be specific–some Clairemont Avenue residents were very vocal, not all Clairemont area residents. And as I tried to indicate above, I don’t think it was all NIMBY although there may be an element of that–we want light rail, just not in our front yard. (And let’s be honest–the front yard is a little more of a burden than the back yard). Back when feedback was solicited, I heard a lot of older residents talk about how they had once had a walkable, old-fashioned downtown and community with lots of bus access to places they went, like Downtown Atlanta. After MARTA construction started, that lifestyle ended, downtown became a desert, and they no longer could get where they needed to go without transfering several times, whereas before they had quick, direct routes. Many stopped taking public transport then. These folks were understandably distrustful of anything that MARTA might do again. And at the time of that feedback, downtown was still a bit pedestrian-unfriendly and the MARTA station still looked like a bomb shelter and the buses clogged Church in front of the station, so I could understand what the long-time residents were saying.
I think that section of Clairemont is a historic district, no? If so, that would make things much more difficult and may be a reason to avoid such an alignment.
As long as it connects to the Avondale Station, I don’t see what the big deal is.
Moving it to Avondale makes it more of a parking and ride sorta option. If it went to Decatur Station and traveled up Clairemont, I imagine Emory/CDC/Lindbergh employees could live in downtown Decatur and do an easy commute up to work.
But at the same time, this could be a good thing for the DeVry property redevelopment, since the line would run right by it.
I would think that would work both ways. I don’t work in the Emory/CDC area, but if I did, I live closer to the Avondale Station than the Decatur station, so I’d be more likely to walk to the Avondale Station.
Also, having park and ride available at the Avondale Station isn’t necessarily bad thing since people from areas not directly on the line could drive in and at least use transit part of the way. The scarcity of parking in the downtown area would make that more difficult without getting on at another station with parking and then transferring to the light rail line.
I work on Clifton and live near downtown. No one is going to drive to Avondale just to get on transit for the last 2 miles, they will just drive the rest of the way to work. Best bet is to get locals to use it and keep the car off the road. To do that, the line has to be where the people live.
Really a shame it’s not going down Clairmont. Light rail is not that intrusive. I’d even be ok with a bus, as long as it had a dedicated lane. But a bus that has to sit in traffic already exists.
If you look at my other reply to your comment, I think you’re underestimating the number of people that live near the Avondale Station. There are numerous large apartment complexes along DeKalb Industrial and a good bit of rental housing within the city limits in that area, too. And if people who live close to downtown want to use the Clifton line, they can always ride blue line to the Avondale Station and transfer to the Clifton line there.
What is the time table for building any of these options?
Am I seeing this right? Heavy rail along the CSX line from Lindbergh, past CDC/ Emory, to Clairemont/ N Decatur? Then, switching to light rail, headed down Clairemont. Then it looks like instead of coming down Clairmont, the light rail will go east on Scott, bear right on N Decatur at Melton’s, and turn R on Dekalb Industrial at the gas station.
Not that many people live along this route, and I guess that’s the point. Still, it’s too bad Decatur can’t be the hub- I am sure the businesses would have appreciated the extra people.
When you consider all of the apartment complexes along that route, I’m not sure you could say that there aren’t many people that live along the route.
Bummer. This is bad news for Decatur.
MARTA is likely to choose BRT or nothing (or choose BRT and do nothing). Emory/CDC needs a solution more serious than that. Decatur desires more than a few upgraded bus stops.
Unless we organize around solutions by and for citizens and then speak often and loudly, we’re just observers with individual opinions.
The problem I have is that Marta always wants to take over whatever area they work in. Remember the Decatur Station Debacle? You know, the largest metro area in the country, New York City, has stairs down to a station on both sides of the street not some palais de transportation like every Marta station. And don’t get me started about the contractors that Marta uses to build those stations or how the highway mafia in Georgia wants all the money to build roads instead of public transit which is really why Marta gets no state funds. Georgia DOT is one of the MOST powerful parts of state gov.
Karass is right. We had a good transportation system, now we have a political power structure nee’ public works project. Maybe we should just start over.
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the largest metro area in the country, New York City, has stairs down to a station on both sides of the street
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Oh, surely you jest. If they have it in NYC, that’s reason enough for us not to want it!
Sorry, just momentarily overcome by the prevalence of fear and loathing in our civic and electoral arenas. Not seeking out election returns, but can’t even watch Jeopardy without the crawl alerting me to the bite of reality.
we will all be dead by the time they make up their minds, find the money and build it!
There is no need for rail on Clairemont. Once on a rail, there is no flexibility to truly serve the residents of Decatur. The current buses are empty most of the time. This is an option for folks coming through Decatur, not Decatur residents. As all the employers along the Clifton Corridor are moving to telework – there should be few commuters going to the Clifton Corridor. Light rail isn’t light – it isn’t small and cute and it isn’t safe in areas with lots of foot traffic. It would remove the possibility of bike lanes on Clairemont.
For those of you who want it, remember, those of us who live on Clairemont are your neighbors. If you don’t want it front of your house, please don’t put it in front of mine.
There are a lot of reasons people don’t ride the existing buses.
But I agree, if the system is designed mainly for OTP’ers, then I agree going down Dekalb industrial is fine.
Well, I know someone who knows someone…and this is just pie in the sky planning. There is no will and especially there is no money for any of this to be implemented.
I’d be interested in a conversation about why so many of us see rail as attractive and busses as unattractive.
I used to walk 2 miles in another city to avoid catching the bus. Depending on the area, they can be unreliable at best if you really need to make it somewhere on time (work) and they can also get stuck in traffic. Still HATE buses!
Have tried buses in many cities:
-Atlanta: Buses are too infrequent and too unreliable. You can get to the bus stop 3 minutes early but still miss the bus because it came 5 minutes early and didn’t wait until the scheduled time.
-Los Angeles: Ditto, plus the routes are so long with so many stops that it can take 2 hours to go 8 miles.
-NYC: Too hard to understand the bus system whereas the subway system is well-charted and maps are posted everywhere. In Manhattan, buses tend to serve cross-town best whereas the subway serves the length of the island best. Since Manhattan is a thin island, one can always just walk across it, instead of taking the bus.
-Boston: Never even heard of anyone taking the bus
– Seattle and Chicago: Buses work great. Whatever they are doing there, is what needs to be done if bus service is going to serve lots of folks, not just those with no access to a car.
Karass:
Bus drivers now wait at some stops if they are early. Their on-board clock registers early late or on time and sends the information somewhere at MARTA HQ. . My regular bus driver tells me drivers have been fired for being early and leaving a stop early, as they should be.
Good to know. I have to admit that my experience with buses leaving early is from at least 5 years ago.
The usual response is that rail promotes development while buses do not, because rail signals a long-term investment in an area’s transportation.
When investing money – not just in development but in EVERYTHING – the more constants known the better. Lots and lots of variables are never a good thing because it just makes projections harder.
I certainly can see how the recent bus route cutbacks would undermine anyone’s confidence in a long term commitment to an area’s transportation needs, but aren’t the existing roads evidence of some level of commitment?
It seems to me that busses that are clean, comfortable, and frequent, perhaps with a combination of express and local services, with a safe place to wait for them that’s out of the weather, would be cheaper to deploy than any rail solution. And less disruptive to neighborhoods. And as long as I’m dreaming, let’s equip them with wi-fi. And a coffee machine. Run smaller busses, but run them more frequently, so if you miss one, it’s not a big deal to simply wait for the next one. Run them on cleaner fuel, and make them cheap to ride. Work with me here, think of your dream bus.
Yes, this would work. Actually a lot of things would work–the success of the Cliff bus shows that. But MARTA never has the ability to provide the minimally acceptable service so people give up on the buses and the lack of support for buses becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well, I guess roads are a commitment to a certain degree of vehicle access, but they aren’t a commitment to public transit because the buses could be easily cut or sent down a different road in 2 years.
At one point a while back we had a discussion about dedicated bus lanes, which had an actual, physical barrier between the car lane and the bus lane. This came off as a sort of compromise solution between bus and rail, because it still showed a financial commitment to public transit in the corridor.
Can you imagine how many people would take a bus to Emory if the bus had a dedicated lane on North Decatur??
If this is where it led, I am glad I missed that discussion.
Let’s not confuse people with impractical notions.
Please elaborate.
The problem with buses is Marta’s branding of them. Take a similar bus system, and call it something else, and people would give it a try. See the Cliff for example.
Is the Cliff similar to Marta? Is it simply branding that creates the perception of a difference? If so, that’s some marketing team! I have the impression that Cliff is clean, comfortable, timely and convenient. I have the impression that Marta is not. Full disclosure: I have never used either of those bus services.
My suggestion of fresh coffee service on the bus was meant to be amusing, although the wi-fi suggestion was real. My idea was to do some blue-sky thinking, to figure out what the real objection to the Marta bus system is.
I’m interested because I suspect that one could have busses with fur seats and champagne for less disruption and expense than rail entails.
Cliff has nothing to do with MARTA. It is operated for Emory by a private contractor.
Yes, thank you, Steve, I realize that they are separate entities. I was responding to TeeRuss’s comment above mine where he compared the two. I think it is a useful comparison.
The most useful thing down Clairmont all the way to N. Decatur Road would be a dedictaed biking/walking pathway. That would doubtless still intrude a bit on the residents on Clairmont, but there is no need for rail investment in that section.
The traffic around Clairemont can be God awful at times. I would be completely tear out hair insane if I had sit in that a few times a day. But still, I certainly understand why some may object. I’m guessing, the residents probably know back ways around so it doesn’t affect them as much? I don’t really know.
As far as the comment about dedicated bike lanes I’m sure they would be used and it would be nice. I personally would like to see bike lanes on every road. But as far as a sole usage to alleviate traffic issues and connecting areas of business, just not that practical. Of course people solely use their bikes to get to work, but that’s not what’s creating the congestion. I don’t think everyone will jump out of their cars just because there’s a new special lane for bikes. Catch 22 I guess