Cursing the Friendly Skies
Decatur Metro | September 15, 2009An anonymous and frustrated reader writes in…
I’d like to remain anonymous to keep from angering my neighbors, but I am going nuts over the amount of airplane noise I hear daily south of the railroad tracks in the City of Decatur.
My neighbors say they barely notice, but I just don’t believe them. I even wonder if it is a conspiracy to keep the public from knowing there’s a problem, and thus lowering our property values.
I am certain I wouldn’t have purchased a home here had I known about the noise. Before buying, I did my homework and even parked on the street for an hour or so on separate occasions. I must be the unluckiest person in the world because there was no noise on any of those days.
Can you find out if there any relief we can collectively seek (assuming I can get my neighbors to admit the problem)?
As luck would have it, Robert wrote in last night speculating that a recent flight path change was causing the increased decibel levels from above and forwarded a similar complaint thread from the Oakhurst Message Board, which gave the number to call to report issues with plane noise.
THE ATLANTA DEPT OF AVIATION: 770-43-NOISE OR 770-436-6473
But don’t get your hopes up on hearing those crickets anytime soon. Here’s the experience of another local writing on the message board…
I have noticed this (East Lake) and I called the Airport. They told me if I wanted peace and quiet, I should move to Colorado or Montana. Yeah – I’m serious.
Latest from Decaturish
The planes over South Decatur have been there over 20 years. The patterns are nothing new and haven’t changed. Feel free to complain, but the FAA, which controls the patterns, has been unmoved over the years.
We never noticed how much airplane traffic was going over our house, until our toddler developed a deep interest in airplanes. He notices every plane that passes, demanding to go outside to see it. This, of course, happens most often around nap and bed time.
Seems like this issue gets stirred up about once a year. I haven’t noticed much of a difference, but it seems for some annually the airplane noise gets louder and then the issue dies down again. Could it be seasonal?
The only option for the FAA would be to move the planes to someone else’s community (who would then complain) so I can understand their response to your calls.
I can hear the MARTA train wizz by even though I live about a mile from MARTA. We live in an urban area … we put up with urban noises.
The noise is far worse when airport operations are west-to-east. The planes coming off the east end of the runways turn north and go over Decatur. When operations are east-to-west, we don’t see many planes because the approaches are from Stone Mountain. The direction of operation is generally governed by wind direction and speed.
I don’t mind it, personally. I hardly notice it unless I’m outside doing absolutely nothing. The loudest is the Korean Air 747, which comes over around 1 p.m. every few days. I even spotted my house one time taking off to the east from Hartsfield. What was more noticeable was the eerie silence in the days after 9/11 when the planes were grounded. That was weird.
Sure, it’s loud, but I actually enjoy seeing that big bird – a 747 is an impressive sight overhead.
The best part is being outside on a clear day when one of those monsters roars overhead.
My house is right under the western flight path (when planes make that big 180 in the air to go west) and it’s loud at times, but I love watching planes, so it’s not a big deal.
I’m not complaining, I like watch the 747 as well. It’s pretty awesome when it goes overhead. I also like when the various military helicopters come over Winnona Park, most Black Hawks and Hueys with the occasional Chinook or Cobra. One Sunday morning, eight Black Hawks came over my house in a V formation and that was louder — and more awesome — than any of the Hartsfield planes.
A few nights ago, I think it was Friday I heard a big, loud helicopter coming in from the east. So, being the crazy helicopter lover I am, I rush outside just as this big, loud helicopter comes roaring overhead. It’s not one of those traffic helicopters either, it sounded like some sort of turbofan (like a jet). Even better(weirder?) was the fact that the whole thing was blacked out. No running lights whatsoever, the only clue I had as to it’s position (I’d guess 1000-2000′ above my house) was the illumination coming from the interior.
I let you all draw your own conclusions.
I conclude that The Invasion is imminent.
I choose to look at it the other way. We’re using these “helicopters” to invade other planets.
Maybe we had a special visit from the good folks at the Army’s 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment — the Nightstalkers:
http://www.soc.mil/160soar/soar_home.htm
This is indeed one of the two or three most consistent gripes/rumors floating out in the Decatur ether. But I realized that I had never actually mentioned it…so I figured it was about time to give it its due.
Plus I love any comment that includes the word “conspiracy.”
As was posed by someone in the Oakhurst Yahoo groups awhile ago, it could be seasonal in that when the weather is nice (cooler in the fall, warmer in spring), we open our windows. This makes the sounds of planes and trains quite loud, so we notice it more?
I noticed a plane flying really low, on Friday, September 11, while I was returning home in Oakhurst. I looked up to make sure it was not ‘diving down.’ It really took me by surprise but then I remembered to my childhood – sometimes we saw planes flying in the Oakhurst area, more during the day than night.
I agree with Steve, approach and departure direction are dictated by weather. The noise is often increased on days when Hartsfield departs to the east because the sky is overcast, which reflects sound to the ground.
That Korean Air 747 is loud, but it only flies by a couple times a week. The Delta MD88s are very loud too, it would be great if Delta could afford to replace those with more modern quiet and efficient jets.
It looks like another Steve on the Oakhurst Message Board has found evidence to support that Hartsfield has its planes flying lower these days.
Interesting stuff.
Normally what happens is the aircraft take off into the prevailing winds which in Atlanta come from the west. Whenever there is no wind the airport switches departure runways so that aircraft take off to the east. This allows them to equalize wear and tear on both ends of the runway among other things.
All aircraft that take off to the east and are going north make a pretty quick turn to the northwest that takes them right over our lovely little burg. This is done to clear a holding area to the northeast of Atlanta where many jets are stacked up for landing.
That being said it’s always seemed to me that if the north bound jets went straight out to the east until they reached say 10 or 15 thousand feet and then made a turn it would solve the noise problem in Dekalb and clear the holding area.
But I don’t think that will happen because it would burn a bit more fuel and cost the airlines money. When it comes to a choice between a private citizens needs and the bottom line of a large corporation where do you think the gov will come down? Think banks.
The Atlanta area airspace is very complex. Not only is there Hartsfield, there are Peachtree Dekalb, Fulton, Gwinnett, McCollum, and others that have flights that need to be integrated in the same airspace. Any changes in Hartsfield departures and approaches would need to be compatible with those at dozens of other airports. Thus, if you change Hartsfield, hundreds of other procedures would change, which is no small undertaking.
Taking the departing traffic to a higher altitude before making the turn would also be very difficult with today’s ATC. Planes on the type of flight plans that airliners are on must stay on airways that are defined by fixed radio beacons located where they may have been first installed 50 years ago. Departing planes need to get on the airways, and if they climbed higher before turning they would be off the airways. Getting them back to the airways would be difficult to manage in the busy Atlanta airspace.
FAA is developing GPS based air routing for the future. This would allow for the changes you want. Seattle is testing it now, but it will be many years before it comes on line.
The problem I have had with the planes for my whole 12 years of living in Oakhurst is that no matter what what landline or frequency I use, the phone will go out if I am in the back of my house and a plane flies overhead. I think the planes must be lower, for the last couple months the planes knock the phone out in my living room as well.
The economy must be improving if this is what we are concerned about in the metro-suburb of Decatur. Or maybe it is worse and more people are at home?
I, too, have noticed the planes flying lower. The noise doesn’t bother me, but while I was on the square Saturday I was really surprised by how low the planes seemed to be.
Haven’t really been bothered by plane noise in the 3.5 years we’ve been living in Decatur, but part of that could be because I am the son, grandson, and nephew of airline captains, so there’s jetfuel in my blood.
The planes over Oakhurst have been much noisier lately, but I have no idea why. It really only bothers me when I intentionally try to listen for them! I will try to call that line the next time it gets really bad.
The occasional helicopters are much louder, and I think we can expect a lot of those in the next week or two due to the Tour Championship in East Lake.
I think the noise is one of those things that you get used to over time. When we first moved here, I couldn’t believe how people tolerated all the train noise in the middle of the night. But, now, I hardly ever even notice it! And I actually kind of enjoy it when I do hear it. Go figure.
It is all a part of inner city living- in the country there would be complaints about the tractors too early in the morning. Actually, that is what gets me the most- those folks who mow their lawn at 8am on the weekends…..unless they come over and mow mine!
I agree with sightseer and others. In 10 years living in south Decatur, I’ve noticed airplane noise rise and fall at different times, virtually always in sync with weather conditions. I have not noticed a net increase lately. In any case, the airport (and the railroad tracks) were here when virtually all of us opted to move in.
Speaking of early morning lawn mowers, I’m most curious about one thing, although clueless how to get an accurate answer: how many of the people who are seriously bothered by the plane noise ever use leaf blowers in their yards? That happens to be my personal pet peeve (at any time of day). They are incredibly noisy; they stir up a lot more dirt and pollen than raking or sweeping; and they use non-renewable energy. Plus, they often result in leaves and other organic matter being blown into the street and left, to eventually clog the gutters and storm drains.
Sorry, don’t mean to hijack the thread.
Yes! Leaf blowers are one of the most annoying inventions ever. The guys who use them use heavy duty ear protection. That should be a clue as to how much it bothers the rest of us.
Love my leaf blower. Oh yeah, I do. I consider it one of the top ten tools ever invented. Sure, it’s noisy…sorry about that. But it’s a lot faster than raking, a lot cheaper than paying someone to rake, and it has a very cool feature that lets me mulch the leaves. If someone wants to make a leaf blower that’s quieter, costs less than $100, works as well as my current one and uses no electricity or gas, I’ll buy it.
There is a big difference in noise level between gas and electric leaf blowers. Electric are quite a bit quieter. Also, most In Decatur use these blowers to clear paved areas, usually blowing debris back into their yard. Any debris that gets blown into the street is far less than what would have ended up there had they not used the blower in the first place. For those that also like to use blowers in the house (they are truly a godsend with dog hair), electric is the only safe option–gas will scare the bejesus out of your pets and introduce harmful carbon monoxide in the home. Don’t knock leaf blowers until you’ve tried them… They aren’t as bad as you think. In fact, they are helping to clear up the neighborhood, compartmentalize dog hair, provide valuable mulch and nutrients for fledging plant life, increase property values and keep debris out of storm drains, among other benefits.
I frequently housesit in SE Decatur and have definitely noticed a tremendous difference recently. The house is set far back from the street and surrounded by large trees; the most noise typically is when the dogs bark at the occasional passer-by. Yet since this recent change, the place has gone from feeling like a serene oasis to sounding more like Hapeville. Because of the trees, I can’t very clearly see the actual planes. Are they primarily wide-bodies? The could help explain the noise that solidly penetrates a large two-story home.
Having lived in Hapeville directly across loop road from the runways I can honestly say no comparison. Or maybe I still just partly deaf from having lived in Hapeville!? Nothing like a town where conversations have natural pauses every 30 seconds for a takeoff and you can’t see stars but there is always constellation holding pattern.
I am the son of an air traffic controller. My dad used to take my brother and I into different airport towers, radar centers, and tours of cockpits and planes when we were kids. We learned on the flight lingo on the wave radios. Back in those days controllers had an all access pass to almost anywhere.
I love being linked up to Hartsfield by train from near my house as I travel alot. I think its very cool that Hartsfield is the busiest airport in the world and services the largest airline in the world with the broadest global reach.
It seems like the planes fly over Decatur about 25% of the time, as noted, based on weather patterns. I was sitting in the square the other night looking at the beautiful dusk sky and watching the planes take off in the distance and turn overhead. Its not too noisy unless its a monster jet (now that Delta has a new fleet of 747’s after the merger you see more of those), and if the noise distracts me I know the flight path typically doesn’t stick that long. The thing that totally irritates me is the dang helicopters when they periodically come acround to report on some small squalid drama or other. Swat!
Wow, who would’ve thought living near a lot of other people AND a major airport would be so noisy. I think I would have suggested moving to Wyoming or Montana.
If Hartsfield-Jackson flight paths have been modified, it should be public record. It should be a matter of contacting/pestering the airport’s PR people. We don’t need to speculate.
I’d bug them myself, but I’m too busy attacking and wounding barn owls.
The FAA puts all procedures on the web for download here:
http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
Once you drill down to a certain airport, the departure procedures have the DP designation for the Type column. Arrivals are STAR. You would have to compare a the current cycle of a particular procedure to one of its older versions to see if and how much it has changed.
Airplane noise has ZERO affect on your property values
On busy days I can sit on my front porch and watch the planes pass over at about 30 second intervals as they head in from Stone Mountain to land, but the noise hasn’t ever bothered me.
The train horns at midnight however – especially on Sunday nights – as they go throught Decatur, now THOSE bother me. Isn’t there some kind of rule about trains not using their horns after a certain time of night … ??
Nope. Last I knew, trains are required to sound their horns at least 50 yards before each crossing, regardless of the hour.
The Federal Railroad Administration requires trains to sound horns at all crossings at all times, public and private, unless they are protected by some means that would allow no intersecting traffic to pass (such as 4-way gates).
I live on the North side of the tracks. The noise here doesn’t bother me . Once upon a time I lived in Marietta near Dobbins / NAS Atlanta. That was SERIOUS airplane noise especially when the reservists flew on the weekends .
I love to watch the planes. Sometimes at night the flight path comes right over my house. Just to the east of my house is the point where they turn on the landing lights to begin their final approach to Hartsfield. It is really cool – the bright lights appear out of nowhere.
I cannot recall the specifics but remember reading a comment from a Delta or airport operations official that said the addition of the 5th runway permitted them to use the preferred take-off/landing direction more regularly.
Folks!
As an airline pilot I thought I would drop in and tell ya’ll what’s going on. Hartsfield has 5 runways, all pointing east to west in direction. It had 4 before, and it added an additional runway on the south side of the airport a few years ago to help increase frequency of operations. But that runway is primarily used for landings.
Airplanes takeoff and land into the wind for a multitude of reasons, but mostly for performance. So when the prevailing winds are from the west (as they usually are) the airplanes depart from Hartsfield to the west, and then make a turn either to the northwest or southwest depending on the direction of their destination.
In the past few weeks, the winds have been from the east, more often than from the west..which is a departure from the norm. Hence why you may feel that there is an increase of activity over the Decatur area. Since the airport is using what are called “east operations” when they takeoff of the various runways allotted for departure they (much akin to “west operations), make a turn to the northeast, or southeast depending on the general direction of their destination.
There haven’t been any changes to altitudes, or “departure procedures” as i can tell from the various chart publication dates.
Aha! So it IS a conspiracy!
BTW, I once lived for a couple of years directly in the flight path for one of the busiest general aviation airports in the country….at the time they claimed it was the busiest. If anybody thinks commercial jets are noisy, try living with nearly round-the-clock approaches and departures of single- and twin-engine fixed-wing craft. (A LOT of pilots were instrument-rated, so darkness and bad weather didn’t have a huge impact on traffic.) Imagine those traffic and news ‘copters that are so popular around here, and blend that noise with what you remember of the soundtrack from “Tora! Tora! Tora!” I imagine some folks in Chamblee (adjacent to Dekalb-Peachtree Airport) could tell us a thing or two about aircraft noise.
Yeah, after living near Dobbins this is like nirvana! The planes don’t bother me. Actually enjoy watching them if I’m outside.
I enjoy watching them…I really dont notice the noise, I notice the train more than the planes…
and I do enjoy pointing and saying “de plane de plane!!”
I live in North East Decatur and airplane traffic bothers me especially when they are doing east operations and/or is overcast. It is a combination of the noise and the frequency, about 1 plane per minute between 8 and 10 and 4 -7. If I let it, it drives me crazy. I love all the explanations above, especially the part about east operations nfrom Andy, I always sensed that it changed when the wind was from a different direction, now I know! Very informative.
Agreed! Thanks much for the info Andy!
I do think long-time residents get “used to” the airplane noise — not that we should or that it’s healthy. Back in the early 80s (after living here only a few years), I was videotaping my youngest playing outside one Sat. a.m. Only when I played the movie back on our TV did I noitce the airplane noise almost drowning out the conversations.
I think what we need is a good ole’ sonic boom right about now.
Thanks Decatur Metro! I’m the one who sent the anonymous email and I really appreciate your posting it. I also appreciate all the responses, especially Andy’s explanation and to know that its not just a “south of the tracks” phenomenon.
As an ex-suburbanite, I’ve never lived so close-in before, so I suppose the various sounds just require a little getting used to. I’ll have to remember that before going around accusing my neighbors of conspiracies!
Thanks again!
I grew up in East Marietta 5+ miles away from Dobbins.
My grandparents house was near Main Street in College Park.
Trust me – Decatur’s way quieter, even when the flight pattern is mostly over the East side of town.
And for plane watchers — you want excitement? Once at dusk I was in the WalMart parking lot on US 41 off the end of the Dobbins runway. A monster C-5 cargo plane (built right across the street at Lockheed) on final approach screamed over at a few hundred feet as only the fans on a C-5 can do. The landing gear looked like a tractor trailer was strapped to the bottom of the plane, and you could almost count the rivets.