Spurred by comments in a previous post noting the McCain/Palin signs in Decatur yards, Atlanta Public Affairs provides us with a trend of the percentage of voters that cast their ballots for Democrats during the last three election cycles.
Is gentrification slowly turning Decatur red? Click here to find out.
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I think my conclusion could be summarized by answering “no,” Decatur is still solidly 75-80% Democrat, but lets see the results of the 2008 General Election, and see if we spot any trends vs. 2002 through 2006.
I’ll post the precinct by precinct for the prior elections online and will report back the second week of November with the 2008 results.
Have you seen the Saturday Night Live skit spoofing Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton? Its been circulating around the internet like crazy the last couple of weeks. All I can say about it…..SPOT ON!!!
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/palin-hillary-open/656281/
Oh no! Not Republicans! We Decaturites only like diversity when we agree with it!
Welcome GOPers. Hopefully some of you are actual conservatives and not just mindless party cheerleaders like so many on both sides have become.
Thanks for the welcome! And great comment E! I couldn’t agree more…
E, that was hilarious. Also agree with ya.
I think there may be more visible McCain support in the form of yard signs because McCain signs are much easier to come by. The Decatur Obama people haven’t had any signs when I’ve stopped into the office on Ponce. I finally got one in Athens.
I also appreciate the welcome! I’ve rented in Decatur for 5 years and finally decided to buy in Oakhurst. I close on Friday. I have to admit I’ve been a little skeptical about putting a McCain/Palin sign in my yard for fear of alienating my new neighbors. Of course, I don’t get offended by their Obama signs, but “E” was spot-on about many liberals liking diversity as long as it doesn’t include conservatives!
“Welcome GOPers. Hopefully some of you are actual conservatives and not just mindless party cheerleaders like so many on both sides have become.”
Your intro says “Welcome GOPers”….sure sounds like mindless party cheerleading to me?
Actually ‘labeling’ yourself a Republican or a Democrat is pretty childish and immature if you think about it. When I hear people say “I AM A REPUBLICAN.” I really have to roll my eyes and snicker before moving on. If you think about it, it defining oneself such as this only gives someone a sense of power as their lives are probably small and shallow and dull. Labeling yourself is absurd.
Perhaps instead, a greater proliferation of McCain signs this election season indicates that the Republican minority is just more comfortable in voicing their positions than they were in years past. That would be the glass half-full interpretation.
Rick…you’re stretching. You know what makes me snicker? A holier-than-thou attitude.
Rick, as much as I appreciate the Party of One / Think for Oneself idea, you gotta admit, without affiliations, there is no momentum. Without momentum, there is no progress.
At some point, like-minded folks gotta connect to get anything done. Power comes in blocks.
I’ve got no problem with Republicans living in Decatur, although I’m not convinced that they live here in any greater numbers than they ever have in recenet history. In fact, Dekalb County, up until about 20 years ago, was about as Republican as Cobb and Gwinnett Counties are now (and those counties are now going through a similar demographic and political shift to becoming more Democrat that Dekalb has).
I do wonder why someone who is a Republican would want to live in a place that is essentially the Berkeley of metro Atlanta, although I’m sure that even Berkeley has a handful of Republcians just like Decatur. I know that being a fairly liberal Democrat I would not choose to live in an area that is 75-80% Republican such as Alpharetta or East Cobb. Not because I’m “intolerant” of Republican opinions, but simply because I want to live around people that I have something in common with and share many of the same values. That is kind of what makes a community work, although I do recognize that there will be those in every community (anti-establishment types) who go against the prevailing opinions, just because that is their personality (i.e., many of the people that claim to be conservative Republcians in Decatur may very well be liberal Democrats in Alpharetta just to go against the grain).
I do believe that Decatur is a very diverse place and while very liberal, is more tolerant of different kinds of people (different incomes, races, sexual orientations, etc) than any place I have every lived. And I’m proud of that. But I simply could not support a party, particularly here in Georgia, that I believe stands for everything that is the polar oppisote of what Decatur stands for. A party that opposes civil rights laws, workers rights, is so socially conservative that it wants to use government money to subsidize faith based initiatives, a party that supports banning gay marriage in the Constitution and banning gay adoption, a party that wants to ban abortion in the Constitution, and a party that wants to teach “intelligent design” in our science classes.
Great post E.
Becky – go ahead and post the sign. You should feel free to say it loud and say it proud.
Decaturguy – you raise a good point. I’m a conservative Republican (almost Libertarian) who chose to move to Oakhurst a few years ago. A fish out of water? Perhaps, but the quality of life in this part of Atlanta was a strong draw for me. I couldn’t see myself living in a sterile place like Alpharetta and driving an SUV into the city each day, but I don’t look down on those that do (any more than those who live in-town and drive Subarus covered in angry bumper stickers).
As for living in Decatur, I’ve spent the last year cringing mildly as I pass the ubiquitous Obama bumper stickers and yard signs that populate our fair city, but accept it as the price to pay for living in such a great area. Kind of like the ridiculous property taxes we pay in Decatur (what do you expect me to say, I’m a conservative!).
Decaturguy, not all Republicans are like that just like not all Democrats are militant, tree hugging, bra burning socialists – I thought you liberals don’t like to stereotype. Guess I was wrong on that.
I’m a Republican, and I support gay marriage, abortion rights, civil rights and evolution. I also have no problem with faith based initiatives so long as other initiatives are allowed to help to. I figure in this day and age anyone who wants to help with societies problems that doesn’t intend to harm anyone in the process should be encouraged to give it their best.
I just don’t think that government does much of anything well, and that we should do everything possible to reduce the size and influence of government and increase the power of each individual to determine their own fate. I think everyone should have the freedom to pursue their own goals/lifestyle without interference so long as they aren’t harming others in the process.
Oh yeah… and yes, Decatur is attracting more Republicans. Three moved on to our street over the past year or two.
Decaturguy–I agree 100%…one of my favorite things about living in the Decatur-area is knowing that most of my neighbors are of a like mind, where I can walk down the street holding my partner’s hand and not be afraid (something I would never do OTP). I could never live in a more conservative area. But, the few conservatives I know that live in this area are of the more “libertarian” school of thought, fiscally conservative while still being respectful of diversity and individual rights.
Also, with regard to the absence of Obama/Biden yard signs–I think that the Democratic Party in GA is making a mistake by not having these signs freely available. The only way to get a sign is to purchase one online. On both sides (Republican & Democrat) there are fewer yard signs this election than I can ever remember in years past.
I just don’t think that government does much of anything well, and that we should do everything possible to reduce the size and influence of government and increase the power of each individual to determine their own fate. I think everyone should have the freedom to pursue their own goals/lifestyle without interference so long as they aren’t harming others in the process.
Decaturdad,
I don’t disagree with you in theory and you sound like a fair minded guy. But even you’ve got to admit that your social beliefs are a very much an isolated minority in your party. And your party doesn’t seem to understand that a hands off approach to government means that they should stay out of our bedrooms and our churches as well. And less regulation is not always a good thing … see the results of it in our current financial crisis.
That’s my final comment. This is not a political blog.
Decatur Dad–I think you are a Libertarian, not a Republican. Take a close look at your party’s policies and voting records, and you will see that they are not in line with your views on gay marriage, civil rights, abortion rights and teaching evolution.
I chose to move to Oakhurst because liberal/progressive governments make it impossible to build anything, therefore housing values increase faster. So I feel an investment over 20 years in Oakhurst is worth more than 20 years in Marietta. We shall see.
On the sign topic here, I always wonder why Democrats these days always feel the need to tell you they are a Democrat. By telling, I mean the cars that have 8 bumper stickers on the back that have all sorts of cute phrases-“I am already against the next war!!” “Endless War” “War is not the Answer!!” “It will be a great day when the military bake sale yada yada” “The end of an Error”……and of course, my personal favorite, the car still sporting the Kerry/Edwards sticker. Why don’t you ever see cars with Republican bumper stickers all over them?
I also have to take Decatur Guy to task here. The biggest problem I see with politics today, and when I say that I mean individuals and their arguments, is that everyone is painted with a broad brush…let’s rehash Decatur Guy’s rant:
“…A party that opposes civil rights laws, workers rights, is so socially conservative that it wants to use government money to subsidize faith based initiatives, a party that supports banning gay marriage in the Constitution and banning gay adoption, a party that wants to ban abortion in the Constitution, and a party that wants to teach “intelligent design” in our science classes….”
I mean….come on now. I could not name or even imagine one of my “Rebublican” friends being against civil rights laws. That battle was fought and won. Move on….as some say.
As for the faith based initiatives, what’s wrong with that? I attend DFUMC, and would trust them a whole hell of a lot more with my money than some no faced government buereaucrat throwing money around to the latest scheme that Democrats want to fund to buy votes.
As for the whole intelligent design thing, how can we even deign to know what is going on out there? I mean, seriously? 100 Years from now someone might discover that the universe as we know it is one of 10,000 universes put together that look like Homer Simpson
One last thought on this, it’s interesting how many conservatives have posted here in a relatively short amount of time. I think it’s a bit cathartic, as we don’t always feel free to express our opinions in a neighborhood where the prevailing outlook is so liberal.
LeftWing Said: Why don’t you ever see cars with Republican bumper stickers all over them?
Ummm … I still see people with “W – The President,” “W-Still The President” stickers on their cars.
>>Why don’t you ever see cars with Republican bumper stickers all over them?
Because their cars are expensive show-pieces and must not be sullied.
Ouch, Laura.
On the flip side, there are clearly two approaches for Democratic bumper stickers:
a) If you have a new car:
The safest and most accepted choice for a sticker is always one that supports a Democratic Presidential candidate (Ralph Nader is an acceptable substitute). I think there may now be a law requiring an Obama 08 bumper sticker to be placed on the back of every Prius & Vovlo. Though these stickers reach peak effectiveness during an election year, it is acceptable to leave this sticker on the car until the next election regardless of whether or not the candidate actually won. If it’s a disputed election like in 2000, the sticker can be left on for the life of the car.
b) If the car is a used beater:
The entire backside of the car can be coated in bumper stickers. Because of the abundance of space they are free to include stickers from all areas of liberal support: music, politics, the environment, insults to right wing politicians, and various movements that tell people to keep a city “weird.”
I’m enjoying the debate about political parties, everyone. Let’s not forget each party is made up of individuals. And this year it comes down to Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin. (And Barr and McKinney.)
If McCain still exhibited the ‘maverick’ qualities he possessed in 2000, I would support him fully. But his choices since 2000 and his current tactics illustrates to me that he is not what our country needs right now. He wishes to continue Bush’s policies, i.e. tax cuts for the wealthiest, 250K plus, military over diplomacy, a continued swinging of the supreme court to the far right, etc.
So, for me Obama supports what I support. So he has my vote.
You know, the only sign I have ever had stolen out of my yard was my “War is not the Answer” sign. So, the liberals aren’t the only “intolerant” Decaturites out there.
Secondly, part of the reason we love Decatur is because it represents what liberalism can accomplish: good public schools, lovely public spaces, a wonderful sense of community, etc. I’m not saying that only liberalism can accomplish this (or that Decatur has no problems), but to me the city is a tremendous positive example of liberal values in action. It stands to reason that liberals would feel comfortable here. And to the extent that conservatives who live in Decatur appreciate these things also, I humbly suggest that they take a look at the what created them.
P.S. I drive a Civic Hybrid. 1) It has no bumper stickers on it. 2) I have not worried at all about the gas shortage since I get 40 mpg.
>>Why don’t you ever see cars with Republican bumper stickers all over them?
Because their cars are expensive show-pieces and must not be sullied.
You are joking, right? You know what car is the biggest showpiece nowadays? That’s right boys and girls, the PRIUS!!! Toyota knows they can sucker in the feel better look at how progressive I am even while charging a $8000 premium for the car.
Whenever I see a new Prius, I think of the person that went right out and bought the $600 iPhone…..and that person is a sucker.
I moved to Decatur to have an abortion and marry a women. If I wanted to shoot a home invader with one of my many hand guns and study creationism, I would have moved to Roswell. Go home Republican! Stay out on my back yard!
Consumer Reports recently reported that Prius owners make back the premium for their cars in the first year of owning. I think that was the best among all the cars evaluated. So, I think a lot of that “its not worth it” theory is a myth.
But Left Wing makes a valid point…the Prius is definitely a showpiece. It’s a big part of the reason that it sells so much better than the Civic Hybrid. I’m not even sure there’s a comparable Republican “show-piece” vehicle.
Have to love a post that claims Decatur is great because of the diversity while at the same time extolling its virtue of having legions of like-minded folks. If you can’t live around people who don’t think like you, you just aren’t a fan of diversity. You are a fan of living in an intellectual cocoon that produces the kind of cariacutures seen in Decaturguy’s post.
I am very conservative (at least economically; socially, less so), and the fact that Decatur is hugely liberal has almost no effect on my daily life. I hardly ever think about it, and I don’t much care. I’d also like living in equally liberal cities like Portland or San Fran. I think a lot of liberals are very smart people who happen to have bad ideas for how to run the government. That doesn’t mean I can’t live around them.
Where do I extol Decatur’s virtue of having legions of like-minded folks DEM? Or are you referencing the general discussion?
And I’m curious how one reconciles living in an area where liberals are implementing lots of bad ideas with your tax dollars? Or is it more tolerable because both Dems and Repubs around here generally believe in lots of local government control? Because I’ve always been intrigued by how Decatur reconciles its liberalism and how militantly it believes in local government (a normally more conservative value).
You are a fan of living in an intellectual cocoon that produces the kind of cariacutures seen in Decaturguy’s post.
Oh, yes, my neighborhood is a real cariacature. Household income on my block probably ranges from $15,000 to $500,000 per year. It is roughly half black, half white. We have 80 year old retirees who have lived on the street for over 30 years, single middle aged people, gay couples, immigrants, young families who moved here just a couple of years ago, professionals, and blue collar workers. We all get along, we watch out for each other, we are friends.
Try getting that kind of diversity in some homogeneous conservative Republican enclave in the exurbs. Don’t preach to me about diversity. We live it every single day here.
>>You are joking, right? You know what car is the biggest showpiece nowadays? That’s right boys and girls, the PRIUS!!! Toyota knows they can sucker in the feel better look at how progressive I am even while charging a $8000 premium for the car.<>Whenever I see a new Prius, I think of the person that went right out and bought the $600 iPhone…..and that person is a sucker.<<
That’s funny. I feel the same way about people driving bloated gas hogs like Hummers, Escalades, Navigators, Expeditions, Tahoes, etc. I guess these are extensions of their gated communities. Who’s the sucker again?
Sorry, folks, but buying things because of how they reflect our values ain’t partisan. Like Bic says, for every polar bear hugging Prius owner, there’s someone driving a Navigator because it reflects their master of the universe version of rugged individualism.
Human nature is amusing on both sides of the ideological fence.
As a former republican, I try to tell my republican friends that the party they loved is gone and dead. The new Republicans have abandoned their old ideas and replaced them with new absurd ones. I know lots of Republicans who are still clinging on to the party like Ronald Reagan is going to come back from the dead and storm the beaches of Iraq, John Wayne style. As one Republican politician said, “If the Republican brand were a dog food, it would have been removed from the shelves.” Didn’t we have a “Maverick” for the last eight years?– A president who doesn’t listen to America nor the rest of the world. That didn’t work out so well. You know…endless war, no gas, no healthcare, no friends. I’m not voting for a guy I’d like to drink a beer with. I’m voting for a thinking man and I guess he happens to be half-black. I can’t believe the Republicans have ruined our country and our dollar to the point where I will vote Democrat for the first time in my life. I’m amazed that people would actually want another serving of this bad dog food. Deep fried nationalism and flag pins won’t make you conservatives a penny richer, better, or healthier. Ideas and progress make us richer, not turning back the clock with belief systems and the religious right. I’m not alone in my views. Most of the world is sick of our lies and would like a non-“Maverick” president for a change.
Just to follow up on a couple of the comments that came back at me – I said welcome to the GOP’ers because they are new, not because they are GOP’ers. I could care less what party people choose to identify themselves with, I was just being polite, something that used to be a cultural part of being Southern.
I did indicate that I hope there were some actual conservatives – there are almost none of those in the GOP these days. But that’s just my personal hope that somewhere, be it Decatur or anywhere else, there exist people who understand that conservatism is about respecting the wisdom that is embedded in institutions and traditions, not about what the GOP espouses.
Which brings me to the comments about how Decatur is a liberal place. I don’t think so. The people may be liberal. The government may be liberal. But Decatur the place is a throwback to a more traditional world, with a built environment that encourages walking, small businesses, family-friendly neighborhoods, and community interaction. The cul-de-sac subdivisions in Cumming are liberal – they are the new thing, untried and (I think) untrue, destructive to individual freedom and opportunity as well as community development.
Small old towns have worked for thousands of years, and many of us who have found a home here recognize it as a traditional kind of a place. That’s a conservative reason to love Decatur.
Well put, Scott.
I think it’s also important to remember that few people fall in line with all the beliefs and stereotypes that we assign each other along the liberal-to-conservative continuum. I’m about as conservative as they come, yet recycle like nobody’s business and donate to causes like Heifer International; I’m sure that there are lefties who really enjoy hunting and (while ashamed to admit it) frequently shop at big box retailers like Wal-Mart. The point is, as the sign at the gas station at Ponce & Moreland says, we’re all just flavors in the big stew.
DEM says: “I am very conservative (at least economically; socially, less so), and the fact that Decatur is hugely liberal has almost no effect on my daily life. I hardly ever think about it, and I don’t much care. I’d also like living in equally liberal cities like Portland or San Fran. I think a lot of liberals are very smart people who happen to have bad ideas for how to run the government. That doesn’t mean I can’t live around them.”
I am frankly perplexed by this DEM. What do you like about living in Decatur (or would like about SF or Portland)? Aren’t those things products of the “liberal” elected officials who you say have bad ideas for running the government?
E says: “Which brings me to the comments about how Decatur is a liberal place. I don’t think so. The people may be liberal. The government may be liberal. But Decatur the place is a throwback to a more traditional world, with a built environment that encourages walking, small businesses, family-friendly neighborhoods, and community interaction. The cul-de-sac subdivisions in Cumming are liberal – they are the new thing, untried and (I think) untrue, destructive to individual freedom and opportunity as well as community development.”
Maybe we are just playing semantics here, but I suggest again that if the people and elected officials are “liberal”, then the city that results from the policies, ideas, etc. of those folks reflects liberalism at work.
This is speaking too generally. No one on the city commission runs with a party affiliation. Yes, as a city, we run a fairly progressive ship. But we’re also quite conservative from a fiscal point of view.
That’s my favorite thing about Decatur. It’s not about left or right. It’s about what works.
DM — was referring to the general discussion, not your post.
Decaturguy, your response proves the point. You apparently measure diversity by income, race, sexual orientation, age, etc. Those are relevant because they are proxies for different experiences and worldviews, which in the end, are the only kinds of diversity that really matter. But you seem to want no part of diversity if it means including someone who reads the constitution differently than you apparently do, as just one example.
And of course I did not say your neighborhood was a cariacuture, I said your view of Republicans expressed above — remember, the people you’d prefer to stay in their “republican enclaves in the exurbs” — is a ridiculous overgeneralization of how those people think and why they think the way they do.
I am frankly perplexed by this DEM. What do you like about living in Decatur (or would like about SF or Portland)? Aren’t those things products of the “liberal” elected officials who you say have bad ideas for running the government?
——————————-
If you think that every virtue of Deactur, or SF or anywhere else for that matter, is a virtue granted by modern liberalism, then I suppose you’d be right. But I’m not sure there’s much evidence for that. Plus, not every liberal idea is bad, especially on the local level. I am sure some liberal ideas have in fact helped the city. I do tend to sympathize with more liberal views in terms of zoning, to an extent. My point was more that I don’t care if the people who live around me want to socialize healthcare, endlessly expand social welfare programs, and raise my taxes to even more ridiculous levels. I think all those are horrible ideas but it doesn’t mean I can’t live among the people who have them.
Paula,
A city is a place. The people and government can change, but the place is fixed. It is the unique and defining attribute.
This place has a traditional layout and scale. A town square, apartment dwellings, single family homes on grids, neighborhood commercial districts, all within a 4×4 mile site, right next to a major job center. This allows for the people who live here to do so traditionally, instead of progressively:
To walk the kids to school.
To own or frequent a local business.
To spend less time commuting and more with family.
To interact with the whole town on the sidewalk.
These are traditional ways of life. They are a product of our layout, not our people or government. All of the liberalism in the world couldn’t duplicate our lifestyle in Roswell without a complete rework of the built environment.
Thank you, E and DEM for being more specific. No, I don’t think “every virtue of Decatur” is due to liberalism (I specifically disclaimed that only liberalism could achieve a nice place to live). And I think E’s points about the layout etc. are well taken.
But I do think the overwhelmingly liberal population (and their liberal ideas about things) here has contributed to the lovely place that it is today, and it wouldn’t necessarily be the same place with a completely different population (not to say it would be worse or better, but most certainly not the same). And I do think that our local government policies (call them liberal or not as you wish) have reinforced what E calls “traditional ways of life”. Layout of the city be darned, there are lots of ways in which the government could have discouraged the nice things about Decatur that E lists. And again, perhaps it’s just semantics, but I refuse to concede that those “traditional” things are inherently conservative.
As for “diversity”, I certainly have no problem living next door to someone of a different political persuasion. It would, however, make a difference to me if I was in such a political minority that my values/vision were not reflected in the community such that I no longer felt comfortable where I was living.
Paula,
This is a good discussion!
A lot of this comes down to our definitions of “conservative” and “liberal”. I go with the William F. Buckley understanding of conservative, which is “standing athwart history and yelling ‘stop!'”, or “don’t just do something, stand there!”.
This is the opposite of liberal or progressive, which is always looking for ways to improve things via change.
So a “traditional” arrangement is one that is conservative – it has maintained itself and resisted change. Decatur is physically traditional, thus it is conservative. Alpharetta is a newer way of development and community building, thus it is progressive.
I understand that many of these terms are loaded with political meanings – but I am not trying to use those meanings. Just trying to point out why I think many conservatives would love Decatur – it’s a natural fit. I know it is for me.
E: “So a “traditional” arrangement is one that is conservative – it has maintained itself and resisted change. Decatur is physically traditional, thus it is conservative. Alpharetta is a newer way of development and community building, thus it is progressive.”
Let me complicate things a little more ;^) Yes, Decatur is physically traditional but the status quo in American development for about the past 60 years has been based on the conventional suburban model — what folks tend to think of as sprawl. Everything about it — from land planning to zoning to financing — is set up to generate the Alpharettas of the world. I can tell you from professional experience that trying to buck these trends is very difficult and requires tremendous commitment, creativity and political will.
So, for Decatur to continue to grow along traditional models, even when the status quo is selling the complete opposite, is actually a very progressive act.
Yes, it’s a tad ironic that in today’s world it requires a tinge of radicalism to be traditional but that’s the way it is. Just another example of how Decatur is what it is — a place more focused on what works best than on ideology.
Scott…again, you’ve taken the words out of my mouth.
Scott,
True, but 60 years is a blink of an eye in the history of civilization. The current suburban model may be everywhere, but it is still relatively new – only a couple of generations old.
And when you say “tad ironic that in today’s world it requires a tinge of radicalism to be traditional”, you are echoing the thoughts of a lot of conservatives. I often feel like a fundamentalist when I talk about getting back to human-scaled land use models.
Thanks, E. The main point I was making about conventional suburbia was not so much the amount of time as it was the degree of pervasiveness. It’s an unwieldy beast that dictates every aspect of what gets built in America today. For communities now to grow according to the traditional human-scaled models we, apparently, both hold dear requires aggressive change to the prevailing system. We must progress, it seems, in order to regress. D’oh!
I do think we’re on the same page, though, in agreement that traditional land use models create places with much to offer, and appeal — albeit in different ways — to both Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, progressives and traditionalists. That’s the beauty of traditionally-designed places. They’re diverse in form and, as a result, foster citizens diverse in age, income, race, politics, bedroom antics, etc. etc.
More than anything, I dislike people who take their politics so seriously that they can’t extend friendship and camaraderie to those neighbors from the other side of the political aisle.
In my strictly unscientific sample of people I know, those who are Republicans are much less enthusiastic this year about McCain than the Democrats are about Obama. The reverse is true among Democrats regarding Obama, at least in Atlanta. I live in a Democratic neighborhood and work in a Republican suburb, and the number of yard signs in the ‘burbs for McCain is a fraction of what it was 4 years ago for Bush.
One thing I do like about intown neighborhoods is that there is more of a “live and let live” attitude. In my experience, there seems to be a correlation between this kind of attitude and a more liberal outlook on social issues. These two things are important to me in terms of the quality of life for a particular neighborhood. I have never been happy in areas where people who are different from the norm are socially penalized for it.
If Washington passes the proposed bailout of Wall Street, I think all Republicans living in Decatur should be forced by gunpoint to relocate to Compton or Bedford-Stuyvesant. This crisis falls solely on the shoulders of the GOP. And I for one don’t want them to enjoy all the riches that Decatur has to offer. Let them live as squatters in the ghetto and feel the effects of their trickle down theories of economics.
(Hey DM…I thought no name calling on the blog! How about editing the mcSenile/Pathetic name?)
Anywhoo…I don’t know how everyone here see’s it, but you can’t blame just the GOP here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0&refer=columnist_hassett
I have a feeling the above poster gets most of their info from the DailyKos, with the seething rage inherent.
Oh…I get it now…play on McCain/Palin…wow, I’m slow and oh so tired today.
Jesus, blaming the financial mess all on the GOP is painting such a broad stroke. It’s much more than that. Can’t stand when the word “all” is used to describe a group.
If we can’t blame the party in power for eight years, the GOP, then who shall we blame?
Who cares? What’s it going to solve?
Don’t blame.
Instead, just Move On!
What is it going to solve to blame the people in charge, you ask? You have to be joking. A democracy works like this….when the people in charge make horrible mistakes you blame them. Then you vote against them, based on blame, so that the politician in power can’t repeat those horrible mistakes. This technique of blaming and voting against is the core of our democracy. The scariest part of our democracy right now is that the lesser educated half of our population wants another serving of Republican BS, in spite of endless war, financial crisis, no gas, inflation, no jobs, etc. Where are their brains? If a Democratic President had done these things I be the first person in line screaming, “vote Republican.” But that’s not what happened. I guess all that deregulation that the Republicans love came back to haunt all of us. Blame is the way of politics. It is what creates change.
John,
The Republicans did not cause this crisis. For years, financially irresponsible Democrats have browbeated and pummeled into submission the lending practices of banks to offer subprime loans to buyers who were not qualified. This is based on NY Times articles and endless media stories of “minorities” who were not offered mortgages at the same rate as whites. In the end, banks had to offer these lousy loans or else risk being “sanctioned” by lawmakers.
In the end, Barney Frank, Chistopher Dodd, and the rest of the financially ignorant propped up Fannie and Freddie ( with no oversight) to buy up these risky securities from the banks forced to lend them, which was a direct result of them having to lower their lending standards so every loser that wanted a home got one.
And here we are.
The only way to change things is to have an electorate that understand economics.
McCain’ senior advisor is still working on more deregulation for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Still! Let’s face it, after Sept. 11th the Bush Administration has done everything in its power to distract the American people while it pursued a fruitless war. A large part of that tactic was to artifically keep interest rates low in 2001 when they should have risen to market values. Greenspan has kinda finally admitted this pressure from our President to keep interst rates below market value. So now that every cocktail waitress in America could finance a house without a hitch. We were all at Home Depot fixing up our houses and living the American Dream while the Republicans sidetracked us to start a war. I do agree that that our electorate should be more versed in Economics. That’s why I have a Masters Degree in Econ from Emory. So I don’t have to believe in Reaganomics.
Jeeeez. Would you fellahs listen to yourselves? Our current problems are about greed, plain and simple, and there’s plenty of blame to spread around.
It was greed at the typically more Republican top of the financial industries, deftly exploiting our regulatory framework, but it was also greed at the bottom, among regular working folks — typically more Democrat — who refused to live within their means.
The only ideology screwing us now is the ideology that it’s possible to get something for nothing. Or maybe that we deserve more than we have. Throw that one in there too.
Scott…I totally agree.
JohnD,
I understand your issues with the Iraq war, but would you respond to my initial critique of the cause of the crisis? The years of PC that have killed our lending institutions in the end at the BEHEST of our elected officials(mostly Democratic beginning with the Clinton administration)? I get it that you feel the Bush administration pulled the strings on EVERYTHING…but lets focus on my core argument on the cause of this crisis?
I agree that many ignorant people went out and got mortages they could not afford, and probably many of them vote democrat as well. In that respect I see your point. Here comes the however… However, these middle class people didn’t deregulate Wall Street. And sure Clinton went along with the deregulation craze of the eighties to some degree.
Many Republicans are free market people. To some degree I am as well. But when the time came in 2001to 2003 for interest rates to rise, the current Administration artificailly kept interest rates below free market values. They knew we would have encountered a small recession period at the wrong time. This forced hand at lowering interest rates is the real cause of the huge trouble we are in now. Bush did stop a small recession early in his administration, but avoiding that recession will cause some enormous financial headaches for years to come.
I’m saying that in 100 years when economic historians look back on this period in American history they will blame, yes blame, this crisis on deregulation, the costs of the Iraq War, and the not allowing interest rates to rise early in the Bush Administration. These are the hallmarks of Pepublican leadership, not democratic leadership.
You may be right, John, that history will blame the policies and actions you cite, but that’s different than history blaming Republicans or Democrats. At that level, it ain’t that simple.
For example, mortgage regulations were relaxed — allowing the abuses that subsequently took place — largely at the insistence of Democrats (Barney Frank chief among them) who very vocally condemned those favoring tighter controls as “anti-affordable housing.” In a good case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions, these efforts to expand the possibilities of home ownership to greater populations of people inadvertently created a feeding trough that subsequently fueled tremendous greed at both the bottom and the top.
A frenzy to exploit the system for personal gain, by both fat cats and keep-up-with-the-Jonesers, lead to the predicament we find ourselves in today, and that system was, like it or not, fueled by both parties (in their own respective and, perhaps, well-intentioned ways).
Believe me, it gives me no pleasure to point it out. Full disclosure, I’m a Democrat myself and am voting Obama. But it is what it is. We need to look at history and demonize unsound actions rather than objectionable institutions.
I don’t expect pure goodness from one party and pure idiocy from the other. All things considered, I think the Democrats are better positioned to lead at this point in time. But I also recognize that politicians are, first and foremost, politicians. Complicity by many is not a great leap.
Couldn’t have said it better myself Scott. The raving left and the raving right need to take a deep breath and relax, if you ask me.
I agree that a two party system like ours is prone to failure from both parties. But the greed that ya’ll talk about can only truly be exercized by the rich. The poor and middle class don’t really make the rules. They follow them. And that’s why long-sighted leadership is so important in a country like ours. That’s why the Republicans are to blame for this mess. thei rshort sighted policies have back-fired financially and diplomatically. To offer you full disclosure I was a life long republican until eight years ago. I just don’t believe in any of their issues and approaches anymore. I’m sometimes called “super liberal or left wing” by republicans who would like to paint my views as marginal or on the fringe of society. Too left wing for rational thought, full of crazy anti-Bush ideas. I just don’t see it that way. I see my views as very conservative and in tune with the vast majority of the world population. My views might clash with country folk in rural West Virginia, but if you check in with what the rest of the civilized, educated world, they agree with me. The last republican administration has changed the reputation and clout of the US for generations to come. Hell, our situation is bad. Recently, a handful of European countries like Sweden and Portugal and others were polled as to their opinion on what is the most dangerous country in the world in tangible terms. Guess what country beat out North Korea and Iran? Uncle Sam. Whether we Americans feel like that criticism is too harsh is not relevant. If the rest of the world feels that way we kinda are that way. The rest of the world, especially, Europe is really just laughing at us with a sense of fear like we are the drunk uncle at the wedding who might do or say something really stupid. We are doing what the Soviets did years ago. Invade Afgahnistan, stay there for 8 years, bankrupt the system so the military can buy what it wants, let consumer goods suffer and wonder why you aren’t a superpower anymore on any level. Ronald Reagan didn’t kill the Soviet political economy and communism, an endless war in Afghanistan did. I will keep blaming the Republicans for this mess despite the handful of democrats who, through good intentions, went along with deregulation and kept interest rates artificially too low. Sure, some dems like Barney Frank were in the car but the republicans were driving the car drunk.
“Recently, a handful of European countries like Sweden and Portugal and others were polled as to their opinion on what is the most dangerous country in the world in tangible terms. Guess what country beat out North Korea and Iran?”
How could we not? Our greatest export from the intelligentsia/chattering classes is Anti-Americanism. Grossly hyped and over reported and digested by the blame America first crowd.
” I see my views as very conservative and in tune with the vast majority of the world population.”
What is this vast majority you speak of? Where are they? Is it France? Russia? Spain? Australia? Ooooohhh…..Is it China? Or are you just pimping for Venezuela and Cuba? Last time I checked, we don’t have a mass migration of citizens to those countries. I wonder why? You just wait and watch what happens in Europe when the non-assimilated Muslim populations cross the point of no return and European countries say enough is enough. You think the Iraq war is a problem? You think the Bush administration is war crazy? You haven’t seen anything yet.
“Ronald Reagan didn’t kill the Soviet political economy and communism, an endless war in Afghanistan did”
My personal favorite. The answer for every Reagan accomplishment, minimize what Reagan did and heap praise on the vanquished and their mistakes.
JohnD….we just have to agree to disagree…..on pretty much EVERYTHING!
I am looking forward to putting my McCain yard sign up today. Sorry to all of you who say, “there goes the neighborhood!” (oh, and I have shot a home invader, so this is no Republican myth, but it didn’t happen in Decatur– it was Midtown)
JohnD….I agree with you on the artificial low interest rate being an issue….found an excellent article here that explains the current crisis:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/129158.html