Temporary Large Tree Removal Moratorium Passes Unanimously, Structural Demolition Moratorium Fails By Narrow Margin
Decatur Metro | October 22, 2013At last night’s three and a half hour long meeting, the Decatur City Commission unanimously approved a temporary 12+ inch diameter-at-chest-height tree removal moratorium that will remain in effect until January 24, 2014. Commissioner Scott Drake recused himself from the tree moratorium discussion and vote. The moratorium doesn’t apply to sick or dying trees – as determined by the city arborist.
The commission then discussed and voted 3-2 (with Mayor Baskett and Commissioner Boykin voting in favor) to deny the residential demolition moratorium. Mayor Baskett opened the discussion saying he hoped the consultants could provide options to deal with the issues of teardowns, adding “We don’t want to stop growth and progress in this city, we just want some better handles on how much is appropriate height in scale on very small lots and houses very close together.
The commission also asked the city manager to provide recommendations – which could cost upwards of $60,000 – to have permanent tree ordinance changes in place by the end of the moratorium in January and a recommendation on zoning changes regarding teardowns.
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No surprise, I guess. I have to say I’m disappointed in Mayor Baskett and Commissioner Boykin for their votes.
It will be interesting to see where we go from here. I don’t like the fact that permission to remove a dangerous or sick tree relies solely on the opinion of CoD-represented arborist. I understand they know more about trees than your average homeowner, but I balk at the restriction against privately hired arborists.
Agreed on all points.
Since the measure of another’s intelligence is the extent to which they agree with you…you, my friend, are a genius.
Likewise, I’m sure
agreed as well, and it seems like the commissioners have already decided that there will be a strong tree ordinance very soon, even though the public input that they requested on open city hall last year was evenly split on this issue. it will be interesting to see the flurry of tree activity in the next 90 days on individual properties.
Keep in mind that the moratorium only applies to land disturbance. If you’re not building anything and feel like taking down a tree, you remain free to do so. So whatever flurry will presumably be related to folks looking to build, right?
you are still free to take a tree down now unless you live in a historic district, but in 90 days, who knows. so I would expect that anyone that is clearing out their overgrown yard or might anticipate an ADU, patio, garage or whatever sometime in the future might go ahead and clear the spot. think I hear chain saws in my neighborhood right now….
I felt like it was ver obvious that everyone had made up their mind before the meeting even started. Allowing the public to speak out is great, but I do not think anyone of the board members really listened Their minds were already made up. I am a little disappointed.
Who is the city arborist & how do I get in touch with him/her? I have a sick tree scheduled to be removed next week. I tried to find info on decaturga.com, but couldn’t locate anything specific.
check with Amanda Thompson at the city but I am fairly certain that unless you are in a historic district or are filing for a building permit with the tree removal included, you don’t need one.
There is nothing in the Historic Preservation ordinance that has anything to do with tree removal. It only applies to structures.
not true, any tree >12 inches in diameter must have approval of the Historical Preservation Planner (Regina).
Ed Macie 404 316 3546
Thanks, Jason. Ed said that as long as the removal isn’t part of any construction going on at my house (and we don’t live in an historic district), we were good to go on the removal.
Wait, you contacted a city official and then actually talked to him, AND he answered your questions!? Only in Decatur….
In seriousness, that is all good info to know, thanks for reporting back.
My experience is all Decatur officials, elected or employees, return calls.
Good. Now I can build my 4,000sf dream home atop the old growth trees on my lot.
Off topic: There was a helicopter hovering for a good 20-25 minutes this morning in the area of N Decatur / Landover / Scott Blvd. Woke me up prematurely after barging its way into my dreams. Sadly, it wasn’t the dream of Revolution Donuts home delivery come to life.
I assume it was sheriff’s dept but I did not see nor hear any sirens or police on the ground. If it was Capt Herb, then someone at WSB will soon get all the expletives he couldn’t hear. Anyone else experience this?
There was an accident at N. Decatur Rd. & Clairmont Rd. It was cleared by the time I passed at 730 but traffic was still backed up.
Must have been pretty bad b/c that helicopter was hovering at 6:05 this morning.
Still backed up at 7:40 AM. Wondered what was up. Amazing how sound carries across Decatur, especially at night or in early morning. Sometimes I think the tracks must have moved because the train whistle seems right outside my window.
Yeah. It’s also been nice open window weather.
The vote last night allowed me to have a better handle on who I will aggressively put my efforts behind in an election: anyone running against any of them, especially Baskett and Boykin.
Whoo Hoo! Jager on DawgFan! I say we have that Jager, then five more, and then we go track down Baskett and Boykin and let them know what we think about their votes.
Unfortunately, Boykin is running unopposed this November.
Can anyone suggest a viable write in candidate?
I know I sure as hell ain’t “viable”, but if anyone else on the northside is willing to put in some and time effort, they’ll get all the help I can give.
Sorry Fred, I know you’re a nice guy but your vote on this issue, with no real discernible reasoning, means I don’t trust you to deal with this issue in the future.
What about the guy that runs this blog? Whoever the hell that actually is. Or J_T? I’d vote for Walrus just to see a guy a dressed up as a Walrus officiating meetings, trying not to bump into things and people because he can’t see out of is costume.
But if it doesn’t have to be viable, my vote is on Pete the Cat
+1000, pete is my hero!
Costume?!!! I actually am a Walrus, dammit! Don’t you oppress me!
No you’re not. You’re a furry. Ewww.
Hey, the parties are wild!
So’s the dry cleaning bill.
Vote Pete!
I find Pete a little two-dimensional in his thinking. And he’s a southie, right?
Pete moved to Savannah earlier this year.
A write-in candidate in Georgia has to jump through many hoops and the time frame now is too short. You can write in whomever you want, but it won’t count unless he/she has gone through a qualifying process.
And of course the Tree Removal Moratorium is effectively a moratorium on demolition.
Encircle the tree. Makes for a great conversation piece.
So I have a question: Can I (as a homeowner) take down a tree in my back yard for landscape purposes? The rule says that I can’t take down a tree for land disturbance, but can I take down a tree today, and then later (say 6 months or so) request a permit for new driveway and garage?
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the ordinance currently reads 18 months. They “fixed” it to prevent homeowners from removing trees prior to selling their teardowns.
Of course, you don’t have to inform the city you removed the tree, so you can have it taken down, have the stump ground, remove the wood chips, fill in the hole with soil, plant grass or shrubs, and the void should match its surroundings in no time. If anyone asks (i.e. a pesky neighbor), just tell them you are took it down b/c an arborist told you it was dying and posed a risk to your family.
Dawgfan, I have heard talk of something in the works to prevent homeowners from clearing their lots prior to a sale to a builder, but I was not aware that it is in effect yet. Thought that was part of what the big change in the tree code will be covering. Or is it? Maybe you know something I don’t about this. I thought an individual homeowner could cut a tree for any reason if they were not in a historic district. If I were Ren, I would ask Amanda Thompson about it.
To repeat, a historic district has nothing to do with whether or not you can take out a tree.
According to city information on the tree moratorium, it does not apply to local historic districts, who “have their own guidelines and procedures. There are no changes proposed to local historic districts as part of this moratorium.”
I don’t know what tree regulations exist within our various districts but, from this statement, I’d have to assume there’s something. Otherwise, why make the distinction?
Sec. 58-86
After designation by ordinance of a historic property or of a historic district, no material change in the appearance of such historic property, or of a structure, site, object or work of art within such historic district shall be made or be permitted to be made by the owner or occupant thereof, unless or until an application for a certificate of exemption or certificate of appropriateness has been approved. A certificate of exemption must be approved by the preservation commission or its authorized designee. A certificate of appropriateness must be approved by the preservation commission.
“Material change? What’s that?” is probably what your brain is telling your mouth to whisper under your breath… Voila:
Material change in appearance means a change that will affect either the exterior architectural or environmental features of a historic property or any building, structure, site, object, landscape feature or work of art within a historic district, such as:
(1) A reconstruction or alteration of the size, shape or facade of a historic property, including any doors or windows or removal or alteration of any architectural features, details or elements;
(2) Demolition or relocation of a historic structure;
(3) Commencement of excavation for construction purposes;
(4) A change in the location of advertising visible from a public right-of-way; or
(5) The erection, alteration, restoration or removal of any building or other structure within a historic property or district, including walls, fences, steps and pavements, or other appurtenant features.
Does that include trees? I dunno. Call a lawyer.
Also, designated historic districts are:
Old DeKalb County Courthouse
Scottish Rite Hospital for Crippled Children
McDonough-Adams-Kings-Highway District
Clairemont Avenue Historic District
Ponce de Leon [Court] Historic District
Old Decatur Historic District
Having a property listed on the National Register holds no weight here, the property must be designated as within a local historic district.
Steve – You are not exactly correct. Each of Decatur’s four historic districts have their own guidelines for what is appropriate. In each case, there are various situations in which a property owner is required to obtain a “Certificate of Appropriateness” from the Historic Preservation Commission when applying for a building permit. In the MAK historic district, as an example, a property owner must appear before the HPC to petition for a CofA when removing a canopy tree greater than 12 inches in diameter. See the City website for more details.
Any large tree taken down in a historic district must first be approved by the Historic Preservation Planner (Regina Brewer).
Just to confirm, we have had to get approval that included a recommendation from a city-approved arborist to take down sick trees in the MAK. I would imagine that taking down a healthy tree is completely out of the question.
thanks Obama
Are you talking about taking down select trees or clearing a lot? If I’m selling to a builder, why would I even worry about clearing the lot?
Just curious. Maybe I read this wrong. If “clearing” means taking out a few trees then never mind.
I have no first hand knowledge, but reading between the lines, I get the impression that builders were having willing homeowners remove certain trees prior to closing in order to ease the permit process, reduce fines, etc. Since the homeowners were having the trees removed, the development regulations wouldn’t apply to the builder who would acquire the property very shortly after the trees were removed. I assume the homeowners would front the costs and the purchase price was adjusted accordingly.
Ah, okay. That makes some sense.
Would the results of the vote have been any different if Fred or Patti had opponents in the election? Still unbelievable that no one ran against either of them.
It’s not the Decatur way. Not polite, because incumbents are such nice people, and their son is on your son’s soccer team, and they live down the street, and their spouse works with your other child’s best friends’ mother, etc., etc., etc. It is rare for anyone to run against an incumbent and, when they do, the challenger rarely wins. The best opportunity to win is when an incumbent declines to run again. So potential candidates put a lot of energy scoping out the intentions of the incumbents, maybe even helping them along with their decision.
Where I grew up, there were always at least two candidates for every position. Not sure how that got arranged. I thought it was a rule, like if no one volunteered to run, someone would be conscripted.
You must have come to town some time back. I’ve been here a while and can count on one hand the number of contested races.
Not talking about Decatur when I reference elections with two or more candidates. Agree that the number of contested races in the City of Decatur are few and far between. I think the low voter turnout for local elections here is at least partly because so many races are uncontested.
Only in Decatur would folks see approval of leadership performance (that is, insufficient motivation for anyone to challenge their seat) as some sort of system failure.
I work with a lot of cities and towns. They’re all different but one thing that unites them is that they would all kill to have a leadership board that actually works together effectively in furthering resident goals.
I’m as much for shaking things up as the next guy but, trust me, the alternative is no utopian picnic.
I actually think that the City leadership works well. But I’m not sure that’s why there’s no challengers. IMHO, competition brings more issues out into the open and engenders more community discussion, even if the same guys win, even if it’s for good reason. I like the fact that there will be a School Board Candidate Forum tonight for the candidates getting north side votes. Two competing candidates, and one candidate without a challenger. If there was no competition at all this election, I doubt the forum would be held.
Im not so sure how well the current commission (post Bill Floyd) gets along. I think that there is a definite power struggle going on. The comments last night between two if them at least were downright hostile.
Any idea why Scott recused himself?
I have a renovation project that is on my families property that we have been working on since this summer and a pine tree may need to be taken down. After consulting with the City Manager and the City Attorney I felt like it was the appropriate action to recuse myself.
Thanks
Those that are worried about the future character of their neighborhood may want to explore, with their neighbors, the creation of a historic district. The boundaries can be small or large, certainly smaller than the previously proposed Oakhurst Historic District. Creating a historic district for your street, for example (assuming you have enough “historic homes” to qualify), would ensure that new demolition/construction be approved by the HPC, which provides an avenue for public hearing and input prior to any major property disturbance. The City’s website has a plethora of information.
HPC = Historic Preservation Commission, which is a board of community members appointed by the City Commission.
Apparently the Mayor said…
“We don’t want to stop growth and progress in this city, we just want some better handles on how much is appropriate height in scale on very small lots and houses very close together.”
There are restrictions currently in place that limit the amount of lot coverage, and how close a house can be to the property line, and the ratio of total square feet of the house (from all stories) to the square feet of the lot, and probably others.
Kudos to the Mayor and City Commission for listening and responding to the needs of the community! I support their decision on the Temporary Tree Moratorium and wished they all had supported the Tear-down Moratorium as well. The Mayor and Fred were courageous for trying to improve planning in residential areas on Monday and I agree with the Patti and Kecia that we have a lot of work to do that will take more than 90 days. Scott seems to be keeping his head low for now. The recommendations of the In-fill Task Force should be considered and we also need changes to the zoning code that allow reduced side and back setbacks on very small lots. Did you know that a residential lot less than 60 feet can legally build a new home that is 45 feet wide (not 40 with 10 foot setbacks on each side)? No variance required. Let’s move on the new Tree Ordinance, a full-time arborist and a Tree Board as soon as possible and be at least as protective as DeKalb County! Hooray for our City Leaders! Especially Jim and Fred!
Hooray diminished property rights!
Your property is not an island. It shares a public street and a community with other people’s property.
Government is easy to hate, but hard to make work well.
Doesn’t change the fact included in jwl’s statement.
David that sounds like the beginning of an argument for why we should use government very sparingly. I’d go further and mention that government action virtually always entails the coercion — an inherent evil that should always require a compelling justification. Platitudes like “no property is an island” don’t cut it.
It’s funny how many Decaturites who look down on and mock people living in HOA communities in the burbs don’t realize how much they actually want to live in one of those neighborhoods (if only they could get over themselves). I got into a conversation at a party the other night (actually, I mostly bit my tongue) with a guy who went on and on about how he wanted “consistent rooflines” and “same size houses” in his neighborhood. Well, there are places for that – they are called Duluth, or Alpharetta, or Suwanee or Acworth…
Then, of course, there is the whole wealth ency crowd, even if they don’t realize (or refuse to admit) they are a member.
Are you real?
Before jumping in to revise side setbacks citywide, keep in mind that there are many areas of town (Lenox Place, Great Lakes, Oakhurst, for example) where historic homes are routinely separated by roughly 10-12 feet total (5-6 foot setback for each house), which plays a huge role in the on-the-street character many people are now concerned about protecting.
Most of the concerns being expressed are not derivative of setback metrics but, rather, the sometimes shocking disparity in size between neighboring homes. How that’ll shake out is anybody’s guess but changing the standards under which our neighborhoods were initially built will likely have no effect but to further generify what we have.
An idea: I can’t imagine that developers who approach (elderly) homeowners offer them true top dollar for their homes. I suspect too that many homeowners don’t know what they could get for their homes if put on market. I wonder if Decatur could find some realtors to offer, pro bono, their services to help homeowners list their homes on the market or identify what a reasonable price would be. This could have the beneficial effect of driving up the prices of smaller homes somewhat, but perhaps putting them out of reach of many developers. It would also have the effect of putting more cash into the homeowners hands.
That is a really ridiculous and classist assumption and I can assure you as a 24-year resident of Decatur and 15-year resident of Oakhurst well acquainted with a lot of older families that you have no idea what you are talking about. Not I disagree that the smaller homes should not be fetching the very topmost dollar they can get. Just don’t like the assumption.
Point taken. What do you think of the idea more generally? Would this be a valuable resource for the community?