Free-For-All Friday 7/20/12
Decatur Metro | July 20, 2012Feel free to use this post to make comments and ask questions about local issues not discussed here over the past week.
Comments close on Monday.
Feel free to use this post to make comments and ask questions about local issues not discussed here over the past week.
Comments close on Monday.
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Robert Butera
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CFA in news again for anti-gay stance: http://www.ajc.com/news/chick-fil-a-president-1481215.html
I would never give these fundamentalist bigots (at the corporate level) a penny of my money. They need to be shamed for their stupidity and intolerance.
Be sure you check who is giving $millions to Romney’s campaign also. You may stop shopping other places.
Because obviously none of us would disagree with any policies or causes from those contributing to Obama’s campaign.
Same principle – you can spend your money where you choose.
It’s a tough principle since most big organizations who spread dollars to many different areas are inevitably going to give to one that you don’t agree with. If you were given a straight (no pun intended) list of everything CFA donates time and money to and asked to check off the ones you agree with and the ones you disagree with, I’m betting your agree checks would far outnumber your disagree. Then it just comes down to how you weight your singular issues.
Who said anything about campaign contributions? The man said he and his company were opposed to granting civil rights to some people.
Nonsense. They’ve done no such thing. That would be a crime.
They’ve simply taken a moral stance (you and I may disagree with that stance) and they’ve had the courage to stick by it. It might not be your choice, or my choice, but it’s theirs and they’re entitled to it.
I respect that in a way. If you don’t like their politics don’t go. But trust me, they certainly don’t need or want your money if you decide to boycott. The majority are still on their side.
We can argue all day about what a basic civil right should be, but the groups they affiliate themselves with are anything but moral.
I’ll assume you’re not aware of the following because I find it odd that any educated person could find these beliefs admirable to standby:
-They give to organizations that don’t believe children are safe for adoption in gay households
-To groups where members think homosexuals should be jailed, and have supported an agenda that believes gays should get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT for the “crime” of homosexuality
-That push an agenda to make the public believe that homosexuality equates to pedophilia, incest, and BESTIALITY
Admiring them for supporting a stance like this? I don’t think so.
Daydreamer,
Thank you for bringing these factors up. Honestly, I had not looked into this issue much before Cathy’s bigoted comments this week. If I had, I would have stopped spending money there long before. My next step is to inform my alma mater that I will make no more donations to them as long as CFL is allowed to operate on campus.
It is not a crime because as yet homosexuals do not have the same legal protections as other classes. Nor did they actually take an action. Obviously expressing a bigoted opinion is not illegal, and your attempt to reframe the issue is what is nonsense. That does not mean they are not wrong, just as the segregationists were wrong when interracial marriage was still illegal and they voiced support for keeping it illegal.
Organizations give money to candidates for a variety of reasons. I’d guess most of those donating to Romney do so for economic reasons; they want lower taxes. That’s fine. We can debate the tax rate and what kind of taxes to have and have elections to decide the issue. Basic civil rights, however, should not be up for debate or vote. In the states where anti-miscegenation laws were still on the books in 1969, the majority of the population supported those laws (if voted on today, such laws would still have a fighting chance in some of those states). In my view, Chic-fi-li has done far worse than donate to campaigns I don’t agree with; they have taken a stance against basic civil rights.
+1
Here is an interesting report on companies who contribute to conservative groups: http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/07/19/543801/consumer-brands-conservative-attack-ads/
Only 23? How long would the list be for companies that give to “left-wing” causes? The fact is that many, if not most, of these large national corporations give to both parties – they want to make sure their interests are protected no matter who is in power. CFA’s position is blatant and inexcusable, but you can’t read too much into many of these contributions by other companies.
It was helpful to me in pointing out some Koch Bros. products. I stopped eating at Chick-Fil-A a few weeks ago and this latest brouhaha makes me feel even stronger in my resolve. I don’t think the Cathys are hateful people and I generally don’t care about the politics of the merchants I patronize either. I care, however, that Chick-Fil-A has financially supported organizations like Focus on the Family through its WinShape Foundation.
I really didn’t want to touch this particular debate, but since you brought up Focus on the Family… The co-founder was “friendly” with a male-prostitute and they were caught together returning from Europe. So while they may not support gay marriage, or gay parents having the right to adopt, they have financially supported gay male prostitutes, so that should count for something.
That was actually pretty funny.
I agree. And the public shaming and rebuke is probably more important than choosing not to spend money there. It took time, but eventually the segregationists either changed their minds or were made societal outcasts, relegated to the backwoods of history. The same choice is ahead for those who would deny civil rights to same-sex couples.
Apropos of this issue, would you allow your son to join the Boy Scouts? Just curious, not trying to stir the pot.
No, I would not.
My 22 year old son never had any interest in the BSA. I was pleased to hear from him that one of his high school classmates had returned his Eagle badges this week after the decision.
I am an Eagle Scout and a scout leader, and I am very disappointed in the BSA’s stance. As with all organizations, the BSA has its failings, but I will not give up on what I consider an outstanding program.
Instead, I will stay a part of scouting and try to change it from the inside. A great many scouts and scout leaders feel as I do. We know it will be a long, hard battle, but we also know that it WILL happen in time.
+1 I’m a longtime Scouter and proud father of two Eagles, and I’m not giving up on the Scouts just because its national leadership is dominated by some far-right boneheads. The national organization is largely irrelevant to the daily functioning of the local units anyway, and through this decision they’re only making themselves more so. There’s too much good about the Scouting movement to walk away from it over this issue. That said, I do intend to express my displeasure by redirecting my not-inconsiderable annual financial support away from the parent organization to my local troop. I hope like-minded supporters will do the same.
I am aware of fairly large church in the Metro that recently inquired about starting a troop. They were told by local Scout leadership that the “company line” was what it was and the church declined since that ran counter to their beliefs.
This was the tipping point for me. A public declaration of opposition to civil rights for same-sex couples is no different than a declaration of opposition to interracial marriage (the Bible was often used to justify that too). I will no longer be spending my money there, and will explain to others why.
+1
+1
Until about 6 months ago, wasn’t President Obama also opposed to gay marriage? Were you as adamantly opposed to Obama as you are to CFA, or did you do as KeithF suggests, and look at all his positions and decide, on the whole, you supported more of them than not?
+1
+1 to DawgFan for that acknowledgement
Not the same concept. The alternative, McCain/Palin, would have been worse. The alternative to Chic-fi-li is hundreds and hundreds of restaurants that have not taken a public position against civil rights.
So, in other words, you made a value judgment based on numerous factors? Isn’t that exactly what SavvyShopper and KeithF suggested?
And yes, it is exactly the same concept. Obama publicly declared his opposition to gay marriage (which according to you is equivalent to opposing interracial marriage and is a violation of civil rights). If this was the only issue on which you voted, you wouldn’t hvae voted for Obama. It may have meant that you didn’t cast a vote for President. But, it appears that you voted for a man who opposed gay marriage.
No, it is not the same concept. Presidential contests are often about the lesser of two evils. Clearly, Obama could have been expected to be (and has proved to be) more likely to support civil rights for homosexuals than McCain (or Romney). There are many superior alternatives to Chic-fi-li where one can get a fried chicken sandwich without the bigotry on the side. And though it is beside the point, I did not vote for Obama or McCain.
I mean… I usually go for the waffle fries on the side. No trans fat!
He could have been expected to be more likely to support civil rights for homosexuals when he clearly and repeatedly expressed his opposition to the very civil right (gay marriage) at issue when he ran for president? Interesting concept. As for the lesser of two evils concept, I would say that the lesser evil is buying a chicken sandwich from a guy who opposes gay marriage but has no power to do anything about it other than express his ideas. More evil would be actively supporting the candidacy of a guy who has tremendous power to change the law and tells you he’s not going to do it.
Even in Obama’s initial statements against legal gay marriage, it was clear that he was not making any wholesale condemnation of the idea. The Chic-fi-li guy went on a rant, warning people about the Biblical consequences of granting civil rights to some. I’m not excusing Obama, just pointing out that the alternative to Obama would have been worse.
At any rate, it’s a moot point now because Obama has changed his position. Has McCain? No, in fact he retreated from his initial position in support of ending “don’t ask don’t tell.”
McCain and Obama had a nearly identical position on the issue. Both opposed gay marriage, but both supported the rights of individual states’ to legalize it. Basically, both said the “right” things and neither took a position. If you chose to believe Obama didn’t really mean what he said, that is your prerogative. But, it was far from “clear”.
” If you chose to believe Obama didn’t really mean what he said, that is your prerogative. But, it was far from “clear”.”
Let’s try to break this down so it is clear. One of two candidates was going to win the presidency. Both said similar things about this issue. However, we have other clues. For one, McCain is a Republican. Also look at who he picked as his running mate. She is less supportive of gay rights than even McCain.
Knowing that politicians say what they need to say to get elected, and assuming that I was voting on a single issue, Obama would have been the easy choice (again, I voted for neither one, but never mind that ). And it would have turned out to be the correct choice. “Don’t ask don’t tell is done”. The President has changed his position on gay marriage.
Getting back to the actual topic, CFL’s expressed bigotry, I don’t have to make such fine distinctions. If I want some fast food, I will look elsewhere.
I respectfully suggest that you are reaching here. He said repeatedly that marriage was an institution between a man and a woman and opposed extending it to gays. He even said this, and referenced his own Chritianity, in an interview with Rick Warren before his election. The difference between Obama’s position then and Cathy’s position now is essentially zero.
Obama has changed his stance now, 4 years later, but that has nothing to do with what anyone knew when they cast a vote for him in 2008. His position then was unequivocal: he did not support the civil right of marriage for gays. The alternative was McCain, who held the very same position.
I personally wish that we were all much more concerned about all civil rights and actively voted against political candidates who campaigned on platforms that would deny those rights. Whether the guy who makes my food shares those viewpoints, however, seems almost irrelevant. Shaming the opponents of basic civil rights is good, but let’s start with the people who have the power to change the law and refuse to do it, as opposed to voting to put them into office.
PS, I did not vote for McCain.
” The difference between Obama’s position then and Cathy’s position now is essentially zero.”
Respectfully, I find it hard to believe you really believe this. Cathy warned a “generation” about deciding what to do with their own lives because such actions differs from his (and according to him, his company’s) religious beliefs. Obama would have been ridiculed for making such a statement. I have not seen any statements from Cathy suggesting states should be allowed to decide this issue. Do you really think Cathy supports gays being allowed to serve in the military? I was talking to a gay ex-Marine last night in a bar and he was wondering the same thing. I very much doubt that Cathy supports any civil rights for homosexuals, though he’s smart enough not to go that far in his public statements.
The (or at least, a) difference between Obama’s position and Cathy’s is that Obama was not working to actively prevent homosexuals from getting married whereas Cathy is taking a portion of the money that we, as customers, pay to CFA for a sandwich and funnelling it through WinShape to organizations that oppose and actively seek to prohibit gay marriage. So, you can’t look at their positions taken in a vaccuum, but you have to look at what actions they take in furtherance of those views.
And by your logic, Dem, active support for Obama is now called for since he has changed his position on gay civil rights and the other guy…well, who knows what his position is. I will go back to buying fast food from CFL when they change their position.
And yes, I did believe that Obama would be more likely to support civil rights for homosexuals. Maybe it just wasn’t clear to you.
I would agree that active support for Obama’s position on gay rights is now called for. But let’s just say that Obama and I don’t see eye to eye on much of anything else, at least that I can think of. I would vastly prefer Romney, but even that is like saying I would prefer to catch a common cold to catching the flu.
I don’t doubt that you seriously believed he would be better on gay rights than McCain. I did not mean to suggest you were being dishonest about it. But that took a bit of a leap of faith in light of his stated opposition to gay marriage. I simply took him at his word on the matter.
“The (or at least, a) difference between Obama’s position and Cathy’s is that Obama was not working to actively prevent homosexuals from getting married whereas Cathy is taking a portion of the money that we, as customers, pay to CFA for a sandwich and funnelling it through WinShape to organizations that oppose and actively seek to prohibit gay marriage”
Exactly. Cathy, to my knowledge, has never said anything about leaving it up to the states. If you listen to the whole interview its clear that he wants people to know that CFL is against homosexual unions of any kind. He’s clearly said that his interpretation of the Bible should govern an “arrogant, prideful generation.” It’s little different than the arguments some segregationists used (and still use).
Obama said he “struggled with it.” Who is naive enough to believe that?
“Obama said he “struggled with it.” Who is naive enough to believe that?”
I didn’t believe it, but then I’m old enough and cynical enough to know that religion probably spawns more lies from politicians than any issue. I’d love to hear someone running for office answer the religious question the way Ron Swanson did on Parks and Rec: “It’s none of your ***damn business.” Alas, that will never happen. Something tells me, though, that in this cycle we will at least be spared the spectacle of the candidates being interviewed for the job by a preacher.
On that note, my hunch is that Obama is an atheist or, at the very least, a non-practicing religious person. I wish this was a country in which a candidate could admit that and still get elected. To some extent, all politicians in this country have to live a lie in order to get elected.
As a matter of fact, a few months ago, I was very much opposed to President Obama’s AND CFA’s stances on gay marriage.
We liberals don’t give blanket passes to people we support; when they do or say things we don’t like, we call them on it, either by writing them, gathering support to petition them to change their stance on the subject in question, or if we feel strongly enough on the subject, by changing our vote the next time around. It’s one of the main reasons we so often fail to get our way: We are only loyal to the folks we vote for when they do what’s right.
I started a little bit of a poop-storm last Friday with my post about Chick-Fil-A. I stand by what I wrote then and I now add this to it:
I have heard the arguments 1.”If we stopped buying from places who invested in organizations we disagreed with, we’d starve to death,” 2.”CFA also does a lot of good things, too,” and 3.”the company is not the local franchise.”
All these things are true, but none give me good enough reason to give CFA any of my money or to change my belief that our schools should not be doing fundraising with the company. 1. CFA’s support of anti-gay organizations is far beyond Target and other consumer companies that have been similarly criticized. I don’t shop at Wal Mart because of how that company screws employees and destroys communities. 2. It’s great that CFA does good things. If those good things are in line with my own values, I will contribute directly to those organizations, rather than funding bad things at the same time by patronizing CFA. 3. I honestly feel bad for franchise owners with this current news story; I’ve never managed a fast food franchise, but I imagine it must be a lot of hard work for not a lot of money. But I work hard for my money, too, and I have a choice of what and where to eat, and if I know that part of every dollar I spend at CFA is funding organizations that practice bigotry, I will choose to eat somewhere else.
We used to attend spirit nights, but the more I looked around at my kids and their friends, eating in this place that pays to take away the rights and dignity of millions, my conscience couldn’t take it. We stopped going to spirit nights months ago.
The Muppets apparently dislike bigotry, as well: http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=745199
I have to say, it takes a lot of guts to pass on the revenue from toys in kids’ meals– I’m sure it brought in a tidy sum for Henson Enterprises.
I will not give Chick Fil A another dime, I was a regular at the Decatur location. Chick Fil A knew they would lose customers over this and were ok with it. Why are some here so upset over where people decide to spend their own money? By all means eat their 10 times a week if you want, I will no longer spend my money there.
I might be wrong, but I suspect their efforts to criticize people for criticizing CFL stem from the fact that they share the same political allegiances.
As someone who is directly impacted by the laws excluding me from civil marriage, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has replied to this topic. You may disagree on exactly how to handle the CFA issue specifically, but none of you have spoken in CFA’s defense nor have you spoken in favor of the discrimination. It’s just one more example of why I’m so happy to have chosen to live in Decatur.
Have you ever read the comments on the AJC’s website? The hate and bigotry (not on just this issue but just about every issue) is pretty unbelievable. Very disheartening a lot of the time.
Wading into those AJC comments is liking wading into a sewer. I’m thankful for this forum, where that kind of garbage isn’t allowed.
New Scott, you observation about the comments on the AJC’s blogs is even correct in reference to their food blog.
+1
I may have to break down and finally try that McDonald’s “Southern Style” chicken sandwich…
I lurves me some Chick Fil A but I love civil rights more. Sorry, Mr. Cathy, don’t use religion to justify your bigotry and expect me to subsidize it.
Looks like that message has gotten through to the Cathys loud and clear. Hope the store operators will insist that all future funding for the Cathys’ pet projects comes only from their own pockets. Shame on them for putting their employees in such a difficult position.
***
From Chick-fil-A’s FB page (Thursday via Chick-fil-a Publisher)
The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect – regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender. We will continue this tradition in the over 1,600 Restaurants run by independent Owner/Operators. Going forward, our intent is to leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena.
Chick-fil-A is a family-owned and family-led company serving the communities in which it operates. From the day Truett Cathy started the company, he began applying biblically-based principles to managing his business. For example, we believe that closing on Sundays, operating debt-free and devoting a percentage of our profits back to our communities are what make us a stronger company and Chick-fil-A family.
Our mission is simple: to serve great food, provide genuine hospitality and have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A.
Let’s not forget, here’s the bible’s clear and unequivocal definition of marriage:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_FJ9NuT_L9k/T2cvH59u2aI/AAAAAAAABXc/RfuQ7QAKxuk/s1600/biblical_marriage_chart.jpg
To the whole CFA thread: This is so stupid. If you do not support Chick Fil A’s actions, then please, just do not eat there. It’s so annoying how people that don’t like something about an organization, etc want to go rant about it and complain about it. If you do not support Chick Fil A’s stance, do not go there. This can apply to many other organizations. Oh and no offense, but I’m pretty sure they (Decatur) don’t need you- 90% of DHS is hooked.
One might turn your argument back on you. if you don’t like this thread, don’t complain. Scroll down and read something else.
But it’s a reeeaaaaallllyyy long scroll!
The City of Decatur Library is looking run down. The building is peeling and the bathrooms are a hot, smelly mess. I’m surprised. I expect more from the city. A city’s library is important. I know, I know … things take time and money.
It is a dekalb county library.
It does seem strange that the main branch is in arguably the worst shape of any in the system. Tucker has that gleaming new building that was just awarded an environmental certification,the smaller Northlake branch was recently remodeled, etc. Not sure why the Decatur branch hasn’t received any attention.
Yeah, that’s a really nice library, they even have a fireplace! Plus the staff are friendly, janitor included. He let me use his personal cell phone, when I asked where the phones were, because i had forgotten mine. Nice guy.
Don’t blame the City. It’s not their library system or their building. Blame DeKalb County. BTW, the roof was just replaced.
The DeKalb County libraries’ budget has been destroyed. Really, really wiped out. It is not hyperbole, not even exaggeration, to say that I know private citizens that have more money budgeted to purchase books in 2012 than the local branch of the library.
At the same time, the need for services at libraries has sky rocketed. It is near impossible to do a job search without a computer and internet, and those are services the unemployed and homeless often cannot afford. The library is their only access.
What the crew at the library manages to provide with such limited resources is miraculous.
Seriously and without snark, I would suggest that if you want to see the library improved, write about it in a letter to you county commissioner, not to this blog. The DCPL needs your help.
Great entry, DarenW. Perfectly put.
+1
+1
Thanks Daren
Would it be out of line to suggest that the Decatur branch of the DCPL initiate (or expand) a volunteer program? Coordinating with the high school to make use of students that might be looking for community service hours? Or retired citizens looking for something meaningful to do? Perhaps our library should apply for a “grant” from the proceeds of the Decatur Craft Beer Festival. Just brainstorming.
The library does have a volunteer program, I don’t know who coordinates it, though.
“Friends of the Library”. They are the ones who hold the used book sales a couple times a year. The money they raise through those sales and donations support the libraries.
http://www.dekalblibrary.org/support/friends-of-the-library.html
I’ve been thinking for years that I should join this group, because we are heavy library users (IMO, they’re the greatest use of taxpayer money ever), and this is the impetus I needed!
Some Friends may in fact volunteer at the library, but I believe the volunteer program and the Friends are different organizations.
Agreed- that women’s bathroom is just so incredibly wrong. Maybe we could lobby for a private bush outside? The whole building could use a revamp. But who cares about services for children and books, when you urgently need a soap box derby track. Thanks Burrell!
On a side note, I have always wondered why there aren’t stairs to third floor. I’d happily take them over the elevator if they were available.
Maybe we should pee in the middle of the soap box derby track.
I had to Lol at the visual. That would be the most interesting sit-in ever!
+1
There are stairs from the second floor to the third floor. I was directed to use the stairs from the second floor to the third the other day because all the elevators were out of order. All the drinking fountains were out of order. Over half of the total lighting in the entire building was out. The air conditioning was out or was compromised, because it was hot in there. And the hot air in the women’s bathroom seemed to be cooking poop. I didn’t allow my child to use the bathroom. Cleaner to pee in the bushes. And I’m glad other DeKalb libraries have good libraries. I will be visiting those soon. DarenW thanks for the info and I’m glad Decatur Library got a new roof.
I was told once that the stairs are normally kept closed for security reasons. Not sure what those would be.
That must be it. Couldn’t exactly remember, just that some time ago after waiting forever and a day on 3 for the elevator, and asking if there were stairs, they said “no.” Maybe she just meant to use, not that there weren’t any. In hindsight, of course they have to have stairs, and probably best they’re closed off to the public actually.
Just wanted to shed light on a few things mentioned here about the Decatur Library.
1. The Decatur Library is the main branch of DeKalb County Public Library, it is not a city service/facility. The City of Decatur does appoint one member to the Board of Trustees, the governing body of DCPL.
2. Capital improvements for the Decatur Library had to be removed from the project list of the 2005 bond initiative that did pass in DeKalb County when municipalities decided to not be part of the bond. As a City of Decatur resident you did not vote on the $54.5 million bond and are not paying debt service on it. This is the money that has been used on capital projects like the Tucker, Northlake, Toco Hill, Stonecrest, Scott Candler, Hairston Crossing and Salem-Panola facilities in unincorporated areas of the County.
3. It has been 20 years since the last major renovation of the Decatur Library and the building is showing its age. The County received some federal grant money to replace roofs and luckily, the Decatur Library (and several of our other branches) made the list and is in the messy process of getting that new roof. The project should be done in another 3-4 weeks.
4. As Daren mentioned, the Library’s budget has been reduced for the last several years in a row, even though usage is up and we have more and larger branches to operate with fewer and fewer staff. The County’s Facilities Maintenance budget has also suffered greatly and that affects all County facilities.
5. We have set aside what money we can in this year’s operating budget to address some of the needs of our older branches that did not benefit from bond funds and have plans to do a variety maintenance activities we used to be able to rely on the County to do for us. Some improvements to the Decatur Library restrooms on the first floor are on this “to-do” list.
6. The Friends of the Decatur Library are applying for a Beer Festival grant–please be advised though that as much as we love to get grants like that, they don’t come close to bridging the gaps that have developed in our budget. One example of a gap–for the last several County budget cycles only $100,000 has been allocated to buy materials — that’s for the entire system (22 branches), for all kinds of materials, books, AV, databases, etc . In 2007 the materials allocation was more than $2 million.
7. The Decatur Library has quite a few regular volunteers, ask for a volunteer application the next time you are in if you are interested.
If you have any other questions, feel free to call me (404-370-8450, ext. 2227) or send me an email (weissingera@dekalblibrary.org)
Alison Weissinger
DCPL Director (and Oakhurst resident)
Alison- What can we do to support the Decatur branch on top of writing letters to our County folks? Can we tackle some of the inside maintenance repairs? Are there other fundraising opportunities that the Friends have discussed and need help to pull off? The Decatur Library and its wonderful staff are such an important part of our community. Please give us a game plan for how we can help out!
Yes!
Alison,
Is it possible to make a donation specifically to the Decatur branch and have it earmarked for purchases of materials?
You can use the “Buy a Book for the Library” button at the top of the library’s homepage. It looks like you can’t specify which library, but then all books the books in the entire collection are available to everyone in DeKalb County through the hold system they have. I’ve seen the paper forms for the Library Foundation at the desks in various libraries around the county and you can specify for a particular library on those. I’d imagine that with the budget basically being killed any little bit would help. Remember a few weeks ago when the BOC proposed hiring someone to do the TV stuff for them because they felt the CEO’s office was leaving them out? I think it was Kathy Gannon who pointed out they’d be spending more on that position than they were on library books. Have you seen the children’s books at Decatur? They are in bad shape and I can’t help thinking that’s because there are lots of people using it and there’s been basically no money since 2007.
Is there any way to get a bond on the ballot just for the libraries, either just for city of Decatur or system wide? As much as voters don’t trust the county, I think if the capital improvement funds were just for libraries, it would pass- and municipalities would be more likely to opt in. This would only help on the physical improvements side, but maybe there could then be financing options for operating costs that could be explored… Perhaps a parcel tax for library operations, like we pay for sewer. $2/parcel could go a long way and perhaps be something that could get approved if it were a dedicated stream.
I agree with Beverly whole-heartedly! Great observation!
Thank you honey for your support! You are a lovely spouse and I am happy you married me
Using a temporary name for this one as I wish to remain more anonymous than usual. I have a question and am looking for advice.
There’s a man who lives (lived) in our neighborhood and frequently comes around looking for work…cut the grass, raking, dog-poop patrol, etc. Where he lived was lost to foreclosure a number of months back, but he is still around, although seemingly homeless. His pleas for work/help are becoming more desparate.
He talks of suicide. He says he was living at a home briefly, but that didn’t work out. He now asks regularly for enough to stay at the Salvation Army, but made the comment yesterday that he can’t stay there again until next month. Over time he has been less than truthful with me including lies about his family, non-existent fires and floods in his home, make-believe muggings, etc. in order to play on my sympathies. I don’t always know what to believe. I don’t know if he has a drug or alcohol problem, but I do know the home he lived in is gone. I try hard not to be the sucker, but I still care about him and want to find a way to help him help himself.
So, here’s the question. How would you help and what suggestions would you give to a homeless, jobless, 58 year-old man who seems to have nobody yet has lived in the area most of his life? His sleeping on our front porch and showing up late at night requesting money just can’t continue to be the status quo. Thanks for your suggestions.
United Way might be able to help. You (or he) can call 211 to talk with someone about programs and services that provide assistance. I’m sure you can find info on the United Way website as well.
This was a good suggestion. They discussed options. Gave shelter suggestions like Clifton Sanctuary Ministries, but again a shelter is just a temporary solution. They talked about Gateway Center but also said usually transitional centers require someone to have a job and Gateway would also require a proof of homelessness but we could write a letter to handle that.
Another one, Dovcar sounded interesting and United Way mentioned that Dovcar is open to those with a record, single men, etc. So, United Way is a good place to go to get a list of options. Thanks ESO.
If there are others of you out there, here are some numbers for places referenced above:
Clifton Sanctuary: 404-373-3253
Gateway Center: 404-215-6600
Dovcar: 678-701-7918
I don’t have any suggestions, just be careful and thank you for caring. I suspect these kind of dilemmas will become more frequent in our in our lives, here in this bubble that is Decatur, as the poor in our midst become even more poor, and poverty spreads to even more of us, as the upper 1 % get richer.
You could also call the Atlanta Union Mission for suggestions. If you think he has mental health issues, the DeKalb county health department might be able to give a referral.
Call the DeKalb Community Service Board Hotline 404-892-4646. They have emergency mobile units.
I’ve decided to start with this one, and am going to call United Way as well. The folks at your number actually gave me another number, and the folks there were very nice and professional. The next step will be calling them back the next time he shows up and trying to get him to talk with them. Depending on that conversation, they may send someone over or may schedule time to talk with him. If that’s the case, I guess we’ll work on making sure he makes the appointment.
Thanks Mises and everyone for your suggestions.
If he is on your front porch, I don’t think it would be cruel to call the non-emergency number for the Decatur PD and ask them to come out and handle it. They are trained for this. And I would want to make it clear that this is not a place for him to sleep. Also, wouldn’t Decatur PD know of local charities/ministries that could help? My point is that I would want the information to come from Decatur PD. Not me.
I was just about to suggest this. I called the non-emergency number a few weeks ago when a seemingly homeless and obviously intoxicated persona was staggering down my street at dawn and asking (and then demanding) money for cigarettes. The police showed up a few minutes later and asked him to leave, which he did. No arrests were made, and IMO, the situation was ended before it had a chance to escalate. By the time the police showed up, he was camped out in one of my neighbor’s yards, not too far from their front door. As this person sleeping on your porch becomes more desparate, he may become more of a danger to you and your neighbors. I would make the public authorities aware of this situation now so hopefully they can help him and/or prevent more desparate actions.
Thanks all, these are some good suggestions. I’m a bit reluctant to go the DPD route, just because it feels like a betrayal to me. Even though the relationship we have with this man is not a friendship, we do care about him. It might be the best answer, but it doesn’t feel as good to me.
I’m already involved with United Way in another fashion and didn’t even think of them!! One of the things I wonder most about is that he needs more than just a place to stay for a few days. What places are best that actually help folks not only get out of the rain, but help get them back on their feet and productive? I’m afraid it’s been a very long time for this man as the house he was living in was his mothers, who died a few years back, and then his sister’s who has now disappeared for good since the foreclosure. He has not really done for himself for quite some time.
Also, to AnotherRick, we are trying to be careful. He’s never shown any vilolent tendencies, but he is a big, strong guy and we’re aware that desperation is a dangerous driver. After dark, my wife does not answer the door without me home, and even though I don’t like to talk this way, we do remain cautious. We don’t want him to hurt either himself or others.
I understand your reluctance completely. I debated for several minutes before I called the police about a complete stranger. Not sure if this will help, but what decided it for me was the realization that I would regret it later and blame myself if this person hurt somebody or broke into someone’s house and I didn’t do anything to prevent it when I easily could have. But, this isn’t the same situation.
Thanks Dawg. Good points.
A quasi-homeless guy used to show up at my neighbor’s house every week or so and bang on her door until she opened it. If she didn’t come to the door, he would walk around the house & peer in her windows to see if she was home. She periodically gave him money, her family begged her not to, but she felt sorry for him. Anyway, I called DPD on him a few times, for example, when he would sit on her porch and wait for her to come home. They always came promptly and treated him very courteously, but they would escort him out of the neighborhood. They told me they knew him quite well. (They were a little exasperated by my neighbor’s continuing to give him money.)
Is he a vet? VA may have services.
Please be careful – if it is the same gentlemen that wanders 2nd Ave looking for work he has a recent criminal history.
Second Ave. is within range and he does have a history but I don’t believe it was for anything violent. Thanks Rob.
After reading your first post about this person, the 2nd Ave person was what popped into my mind as a dead ringer. He used to do work for me 8-10 years ago. At first he did good work, and things just started going downhill.
There was a really bad incident with him while the wife and I were out of town and my mother in law was at the house with the kids. When I got home he approached me demanding money. I told him to leave the property immediately or I was calling the police. He didn’t leave. DPD issued a restraining order on him. The next day while I went to the grocery store (he knew my truck was gone) he came back on our property screaming through the windows. I called DPD again, and they went and pulled him out of his house and he went to jail. You can try and mess with me and it doesn’t bother me, but you don’t mess with my family.
When he is sober (he does have substance problems) he is a nice guy actually. You just can’t trust him at all anymore.
I believe the person that you are referring to has a mother who lives in Lilburn. I don’t think 2nd Ave. guy actually haas ever truly lived on 2nd Ave.
The Metro Atlanta Task Force for the Homeless has a 24-hour Homeless Assistance Hotline at 404-447-3678. They can connect people to a wide range of supportive services and shelters.
This summer, I have seen more homeless people wandering about than I ever have. And the problem is widespread. I’ve been approached by them in many different parts of metro Atlanta. Drive up I-85, as an example, and at pretty much every exit you will see many homeless men near the exit ramps and convenience stores nearby.
Dear more anom.,
I strongly encourage you to actively contact the police. You may think you are kind and helpful, but in not setting boundaries, you could be affecting not only your safety, but the safety of your neighbors and their young children. I agree we as neighbors need to look out for one another, but allowing inappropriate behavior like sleeping on your porch only encourages taking more liberties. Be safe and call the police.
What crime did he commit?
Trespassing?
I suggest you call someone at your church. Several years ago, while attending a Scout meeting at Decatur First Baptist (Troop 134, a great troop), a homeless person came by begging for help (really asking for money). One of the adult leaders of the troop, and a minister at Decatur Presbyterian, was able to get her shelter and food. I know that my church, Saint Thomas More, will provide assistance through the St. Vincent DePaul organization. Even if you are not a member of a Decatur area church, I’m sure a church in your neighborhood would be willing to help.
Chris, that’s always a good choice. In the past months he has said he was getting help from Oakhurst Church, and they were assisting him with getting an apartment, etc. That never turned out to be happening or else he never did anything to follow up. When my wife tried talking to him on Friday, he now says the Presbyterian in downtown Decatur is helping with the same type of thing. Again, I have trust issues with him, so tomorrow I’m going to give the church a call and see if they really are engaged with him, and if they are I’ll ask if there’s anything I can do to help keep him engaged with their program.
It’s a process, and again thanks for all of the great input.
If he is a Veteran, the VAMC has a good homeless program to help people.
Vote NO on July 31. Then tell your state and local officials that our problem is sprawl; they need to hear that you voted against roads but not against a transit.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/07/20/a-plan-b-should-tsplost-fail-realistically-i-doubt-it/
“let’s be honest: Most who oppose this T-SPLOST would also oppose any future tax increase for transportation.”
Wrong.
I think the operative word there is “most”.
I’d be more inclined to agree if the word was “many.” I don’t know all voters, neither does he.
For whatever this little anecdotal piece is worth- I, and many of the previous O voters I know, and reluctant future ones (self-included) that I have spoken with, don’t think this project will do anything for congestion. Proof of nothing of course.
Trying to paint everyone who is against this as near-sighted, selfish and socially irresponsible, anti-progress, anti-tax tea-baggers is insulting and annoying (the author of the article, not you.) I’m not anti-road, public transportation or tax, I’m anti willy-nilly taxation to support a smorgasbord of projects that don’t have any cohesion, and will likely do little to relieve congestion.
How about this: “More than enough people in the Metro Atlanta area oppose tax increases for transportation that no T-SPLOST will ever pass unless transit is excluded entirely.”
Something tells me that Bookman would find it objectionable if his opponents said, “Let’s be honest, most who support this T-SPLOST would also support any future tax increase for transportation.” Yet it would be far more correct than his assertion, since many SPLOST proponents seem to retreat to something along the lines of “sure, this plan stinks to high heaven, but it is better than nothing.”
“Let’s be honest, most who support this T-SPLOST would also support any future tax increase for transportation.”
Speaking generally, it does seem that way.
THE reason that I will be voting against Tsplost is that the people who would be in charge of the money (the county commissioners) have repeatedly shown they are not capable of effectively managing change from a $10 bill at the restaurant chain that shall-now-remain-nameless, much less an influx of millions. Had I one single ounce of confidence in them, I’d vote for it.
I have heard this line of reasoning (from friends and strangers) and I think it’s a cop-out. I hope that is not perceived as a personal attack.
Joe, i don’t take it personally….you are entitled to your opinion. I’d run for everything I could if my wife would let me. As it is, I am resigned to speaking out, which I have done recently on this issue as well as the school board (another budget problem but not unrelated to this issue). I don’t really understand your definition of “copout”. If you define it as a convenient excuse, I would have to disagree since it is the truth in that they are inept. if you think I vote against it “because it is a tax, period,” you’d be mistaken. I’d gladly pay/vote for a 2 cent sales tax if I thought the people in charge would put it to it’s proper use under the circumstances. You’ll forgive me, but I don’t need another soapbox derby park.
I agree with TSB. Why is it a cop out, Joe? Our county commisisoners have demonstrated repeatedly that they are corrupt and incapable. Why add to their coffers?
I am all for traffic relief. But for a plan to work, it has to be feasible. I don’t want to pile money at the doors of the inept.
So go run for county commissioner yourself. Or stump for the person you think can effectively dole out the $$$. “There might be corruption” is a cop-out. It’s not a vote on the merit of the plan itself.
If a plan won’t be properly implemented, its merit is moot. This reasoning is not a cop-out. Why would I give a group of indiviudals millions dollars to be used for a specific purpose when I have no confidence that the money will be spent as intended?
Do you abstain from most political votes, then?
Let’s remain friends… or at least friendly.
85%, which is the project list, can be checked for merit (at least somewhat).
15%, the local portion (that some would describe as a carrot to garner support from local officials), has created some concern. It will probably be used to offset our expanding burden of road maintenance.
No I don’t abstain. I generally vote against tax increases, either directly or indirectly. I am still undecided on this one.
My point was that the reasoning isn’t a copout. You may not agree with it, but the mismanagement and/or embezzlement of public money is a legitimate concern, and a reason not to give the crooks a raise.
A transit only plan will not happen. Compromise is the only way to get some of what you want unless you agree with the premise of “The Conundrum”, in which case, gridlock is preferable to any new road.
If ITP puts a second penny towards transit and OTP puts a second penny towards roads, where is the compromise? Meanwhile all the incentives for sprawl remain in place.
I am voting yes, for many reasons. I agree the problem is sprawl, and this treats the symptoms of that more than the cause. Some of the highway improvements, maybe all, will encourage even more sprawl. That said, I think the public transit improvements in the plan will allow more people to use that as an alternative to their auto, and it will allow more people to be “car free”. I am thinking of the Beltline now. It will help increase inner city development density (that includes Decatur in my way of looking at the Atlanta metro area. The more people who can and want to live close-in, the better it will be for us and the less sprawl there will be. And it will produce construction jobs which are sorely needed now,
Maybe we should review the discussions about the commute patterns of Decatur residents.
Maybe you should tell us now and explain how that should affect my vote. But, whatever those patterns are, I am looking beyond Decatur, to the possible benefit to the Region.
Sprawl affects jobs. Decatur residents, with a claim on 3 MARTA stations, have commute patterns that suggest many have no choice but to drive. (And I believe we’ve heard from several that access to Midtown via MARTA is not their first choice, as things operate today.)
Transit suffers from sprawl. Use of public transportation in Decatur for 2008, 2009, and 2010 appears to be 8%, 7%, and 6% respectively.
I am interested to hear of a scenario where sprawl creates walkable places or bolsters transit. As our metro has spread out, I have become more dependent on my car for business.
http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/04/07/where-decatur-workers-live-where-decaturites-work/
http://www.decaturmetro.com/tag/decatur-commuters/
I will vote yes everyday and twice on Sunday for the idea of Atlanta doing something – anything – to deal with our embarrassing infrastructure. The painstakingly inclusive process of developing this project list was an attempt to do what politicians and citizens used to do routinely, which is to give and take in order to move forward.
I am saddened by those in the rural areas that don’t see how their jobs and home values are tied directly to the quality of infrastructure in the city, but I am also disappointed at how many people in the city think that a guy in Cherokee County should have to live without any improvements to the roads he travels every day in order to make his contribution to the regional economy.
Ultimately I am voting yes because Atlanta has done nothing bold since the ’96 Olympics. I think we could easily slip into Detroit territory where big companies start moving out due to our awful infrastructure and refusal to fix it. It’s not a perfect solution but by the time we find perfection I’m afraid it will be too late. If you’re worried about the counties wasting the money you should learn more about the legislation. Thank you God bless.
I had the owner, Daryl Brandon, of Dr. Green Carpet Care clean my townhouse carpets this week. He did a fabulous job on worn out stairs, teenage son’s stain filled carpet and too many doggie accidents to count. He spent almost 2 hours at my place. He also charged exactly the quote I was given prior to the visit. As a bonus he only used chemicals that are environmentally friendly. A very nice guy also.
I have the remnants of an old alarm system and don’t want to toss in the trash. I know where to recycle the lithium batteries but how about old circuit boards and contacts?
Any electronics recycling site. I think DeKalb Country has a continuous program.
Monthly electronics recycling courtesy of Keep Atlanta Beautiful.
http://www.keepatlantabeautiful.org/programs/Recycling.asp
What’s the best way to find the average prices of 3-2’s and 2-1’s in the City of Decatur over the years? I’m wondering how much I might gain if I renovate and turn my 2-1 into a 3-2.
I don’t know if there’s an easier way, but if you look up your tax assessment on the dekalb county tax assessor website, at the bottom there is a Sales Data Search button that will let you look up recent sales for your neighborhood or street.
This gripe may be criticized as beating a dead horse (and I won’t say, “neigh”), but what’s the story with drivers regularly parking on the sidewalk next to the street trees in front of Tacqueria del Sol? When I just passed by, a large red Ford truck occupied one “space” and a Mercedes SUV occupied the other. Is the area actually part of the commercial property? (It’s paved like the rest of the sidewalk and the strip includes a fire hydrant closer to Fairview. And somehow drivers on the Fairview side of the West PdL walk have no problem recognizing where parking stops and the sidewalk begins.) Does the City not have enough parking personnel to patrol that far west? I see vehicles parked in those areas regularly during both lunch and dinner hours, but I’ve never seen anyone writing a ticket (or even asking a driver to move). Looks like a revenue opportunity to me.
Take a little initiative and, if they’re parked on the sidewalk, call police non-emergency number 404-373-6551 and report the location and description of the car. They will send an officer who WILL write a ticket. The PALS do patrol that area, but after 6PM they’re off duty.
I’ve taken that initiative but no help. Both Decatur Police and a City administrator have agreed with me that the spots in question are on the sidewalk but have said they can’t ticket because it isn’t “totally” clear that this area is not part of the TDS parking lot/ driveway.
I say TDS should be required to stripe the edge of their parking lot to give a clear indication of the parking lot/ sidewalk boundary. Police should then ticket any cars parked on the sidewalk.
This really brings up a larger question of how the sidewalks should be used. Great to have sidewalk tables at many of our restaurants but I think there should be some guidelines about their placement. Outdoor tables should not impede the flow of 2 way pedestrian traffic on the sidewalk.
I don’t regularly carry a cellphone but have reported instances a couple of times after a walk but didn’t return to see if the cars were still on the sidewalk by the time the police arrived. I think all of the parking spaces in the adjacent area are clearly marked and the full width of the sidewalk has the same paving pattern, so I don’t buy the excuse that drivers might not be able to figure out where parking stops and sidewalk begins. Drivers who park on the Fairview side of the building seem to have no problem recognizing where the West PdL sidewalk begins. Still I think your idea about the City requiring TdS to clearly identify where their parking stops is completely reasonable.
And you bring up a good point about restaurant use of the sidewalk for dining. They are supposed to leave an open strip (maybe five feet?) for pedestrians, but I often have to weave through tables single-file when walking with friends. Who (if anyone) monitors that use?
There are times when the cars parked on the Fairview side of the building (facing Ponce) do pull in so that they are partially on the sidewalk. No lines there either.
I have spoken with both a city commissioner and Downtown Development about the issue of sidewalk tables impeding pedestrian traffic. No rules exist . I brought this up during the last round strategic planning round tables but I don’t think it made it into the goals around walkability/pedestrian safety.
Bring it up again with your City Commissioners.
Whoever led you to believe there are no rules for placement of sidewalk tables was mistaken. I checked the ordinances. The following is under 7.8.4. Neighborhood Commercial Special Pedestrian Regulations—C-1 Local Commercial Districts, item 2. Required Streetscape Improvements:
c. Outdoor dining. Accessory outdoor dining areas shall be permitted on a public or private sidewalk area where adjacent to and directly abutting a restaurant located in a building. However, the outdoor dining area shall not reduce the clear zone of a public sidewalk to a width of less than five feet. Tables, chairs, umbrellas and similar items shall be stored in the interior of the restaurant or in similar enclosed area so that a minimum clear zone of ten feet is unobstructed when the outdoor dining area is not in use because of inclement weather or when the restaurant is closed.
Let me be clear right from the beginning:I don’t support Chick-Fil-A’s stance on family issues in the slightest. It is completely reprehensible.
But remember that boycotting the Decatur Chick-Fil-A hurts the franchise owner, who does a great deal of good for the community. I don’t know the person who owns the restaurant, but it’s possible that she/he doesn’t support Mr. Cathy’s public stance.
I just ask that you consider what a boycott would do to a Decatur business, including its employees, most of whom are kids from the Decatur community.
I’m sorry, but there comes a point when there has to be a consideration for more than the financial consequences. This is an extreme example, but what if we said “we can’t punish HSBC for laundering terrorist’s money because they will pass the costs on to customers and lay off employees.”? Chic-fi-li’s leader purposely drew a line in the sand and was willing to suffer the consequences. I’m sorry those with nothing to do that might suffer, but there has to be consequences for open bigotry and discrimination.
I’m sorry, Brianc, but you seem to be displaying the same close-mindedness as Mr. Cathy.
Please explain to me how I am being close-minded. I considered your point (well before you actually posted it, because I knew someone would make it) and rejected it. How is that close-minded?
Nope, he really doesn’t. If that was the case then it would never be possible to oppose and protest any sort of bigotry without being classified as the same “close-minded” type.
Mr. Cathy should have considered how his operators might be affected by his remarks before he opened his mouth. I have nothing against the Crays and I have always found them to be terrific people. I won’t be spending any money at their store or any other Chick-Fil-A anymore. And please note, they are store operators, not franchise owners.
The franchisee supports the Cathys and the corporate office. If the franchisee does not want to accept and support what the corporate structure stands for, then they should make a statement themselves. The franchisee has chosen to align himself with a bigot. Part every of dollar you spend there supports that bigotry.
ETA:
Fats is right. Chick-fil-a “franchises” are not independently owned in the traditional franchise structure.
CFA operators probably can be terminated at will by corporate and there are plenty waiting in line to take their places.
I haven’t read all the posts so maybe this is already in there. I think I am right that the City of Decatur and CSD do not offer domestic partner benefits. Certainly different than supporting hateful organizations.
Nevertheless, I think those two institutions could be leaders in this region. I believe Emory does provide domestic partner benefits.
I know COD does and I believe CSD does also.
The CSD Human Resources web page states that employees receive the “State Health Benefit Plan for Major Medical”. On the GA Dept. Community Health website, one of the state health plans states that eligible dependents are:
-Your legally married spouse; as defined by Georgia law.
-Your dependent children who are:
1. Natural or legally adopted children or Stepchildren under age 26.
2. Other children under 26.
3. Your natural children, legally adopted children or stepchildren who are disabled prior to age 26 from categories 1 and 2 above who are physically or mentally disabled prior to age 26, lives with the enrolled member or is institutionalized and depends primarily on the enrolled member for support. (Poor grammar and punctuation cut and pasted verbatim.)
That doesn’t seem to cover same sex partners. But maybe CSD was able to get a State Health Plan variation that does cover same sex partners? Decatur, which has a large and open LGBT community, including teachers and leaders in CSD, might want to model offering benefits to same sex partners. However, participation in the State Health Plan could preclude that kind of coverage.
Sometimes, Decatur gives me a headache.
Emory definitely provides domestic partner benefits…
So does Agnes Scott!
Has anyone received, the email warning sent to potential voters that they have been purged from the registered voter list if they have not voted since the last presidential election. The DeKalb County Voter Registration Office calls this “mass email“ “misleading”. Based on very limited and second hand talk, I have my own thoughts about this situation, who is behind it and why it was sent. What is going on here?
I’m holding in “awaiting moderation” purgatory, and I absolutely hate this elevator music. Could we get something with a little less saxophone?
Has anyone else had high school aged kids coming door to door to get people to sign up for the AJC Buyer’s Edge? saying it was for their scholarship?
Do the have Decatur solicitation permits?
I did not see any.
They should have them. The only exemptions are religious and political organizations.
As a proud lesbian mom who is very active in my community I have this to say: any money going to hate organizations is wrong. CFA rights have been greatly debated here. My analogy:
If it was a all white lunch counter and you sat there, you are taking a side. Saying how nice the workers are and it’s not really the same thing spending your money at CFA, it’s still supporting hate.
If CFA was giving money to an anti white blue eyed male group, would you feel the same.
It’s not the great acts that matter, it’s the day to day acts that achieve love and acceptance.
The corporations that are CFA vendors, such as Coca Cola, should also understand that they are complicit in this discrimination. And places like Emory should say ‘no thanks’ to having CFA in their student dining hall.
Did I see Sapori de Napoli (sp?) boarded up? There was a sign saying that Karma was moving, but didn’t see anything about S de N.
They had a sign up that they were closing for the last half of July for some renovations.
You were looking at the wrong building. The plywood is where Johnny’s and Karma was; the new sandwich shop is going in there.
Karma moved at least a couple on months ago around the corner to Sycamore St next to the MARTA plaza. And, yes, Napoli has a sign that they’re closed for renovations until the beginning of August.