State Transportation Director Sends TIA List to Roundtable, Cuts Scott Blvd Improvements
Decatur Metro | June 1, 2011Al reports that among the 100 cuts that State Transportation Director Todd Long made to the transportation project list are “Improvements on Scott Blvd (TIA-DK-010 and TIA-DK-49).” However, according to Al, “Clifton corridor bike/ped improvements and a circulator remain possible.”
The AJC has a broader summation of Long’s over $20 billion list of transportation projects that he delivered to 21 person Transportation Roundtable today.
Projects Long added include several I-285 interchanges, including a $500 million whopper at Ga. 400; road widenings such as Roosevelt Highway and Ga. 138; a new Amtrak station; 62 specific Atlanta bridge and road rehabilitation projects to replace the vague pot of money; and $497 million for the Xpress commuter bus system.
“We ended up giving them a list that is nearly three times the amount of available money that’s going to be raised in the region,” said Long. “The cuts they’re going to have to make to get down to a constrained list I do not envy.”
One thing the article notes is that Long cut all pots of money requested by local governments for unspecified projects. (Probably a good idea considering the political climate.)
Now the 5 member Roundtable Exec Committee – which includes Decatur Mayor Bill Floyd – must whittle down this extensive list to something the full 21 member roundtable can vote on to put before voters next November. Now that should be fun.
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Booh! I’m sorry to hear of the cuts to the Scott items. My husband and our small child live in the Westchester neighborhood and frequently walk, stroll, and cycle downtown. Crossing Scott can be a nightmare and riding a bike on Scott is unthinkable for us. My little family is attempting to embrace our community’s pedestrian lifestyle, but we feel cut off from the rest Decatur by Scott. We frequently see the Decatur police doing speed enforcement, and we welcome their efforts, but it’s not enough. I’d like to see bike lanes, a safe crossing area across from Westchester ES (which will be essential once the school reverts to a school–optimistic I know!), and other traffic calming measures.
You are so right that Scott needs a crossing in the middle of that enormous block. That was a problem even when Westchester was a school with most everyone north of Ponce walking. There’s apartments across the street that had a lot of Emory grad student families with kids who had walk a long way up to Scott or up to Coventry to cross. (Ms. Kuebler kept a watchful eye to make sure they didn’t just go across Scott. Sorry the Scott Blvd. improvements aren’t happening.
Can you do traffic calming on a federal highway?
There was talk on this blog on having a tree- or flower-lined median to make it a real “boulevard”, but I don’t know if that was just wishful thinking or in the realm of possibility. That and a pedestrian crossing in the middle of the ski-jump block of Clairemont to Coventry would be great for traffic-calming. There’s something about the grading of that stretch that makes folks want to rev up as though they might not make it up the hill if they don’t accelerate enough on the preceeding downhill.
I agree that a planted median would make Scott a boulevard in the true sense of the word and would seriously slow the speedy Scott roll. In my minds eye, if the budget were no issue, that plan would be ideal. But, back to reality–a less costly improvement would be the crossing Karass described. It’s a loooonnnggg block from Coventry to Clairemont, and another crossing opportunity would be a wonderful start to improving safety for pedestrians and cyclists on Scott. I am unsure about the answer to Mises’ question. My husband and I have wondered the same thing, Anybody know?
Sounds like we need a “Peavine Creek trail”! Forget about Scott and just construct a trail along Peavine from Westchester across Scott, Garden, across Lamont/Vidal, adjoining Oakland, across Ponce and down to Trinity.
That’s just one piece of my theoretical Peavine Creek master plan, but it would solve many different problems for many people. One of them being Safe Routes to School. Now we just need to convince everyone along the route that it’s in their best interest. Hmm…
Fantastic idea! + 1
Not to mention the vast 16 inches of grass that seperate kids on bikes from 90 mph cars!
There are ways that the City could managethe redevelopment at their own expense (I verified this at a meeting with the DOT at Westchester 2-3 years ago), but at the time they wanted to wait on the DOT funds. Now that those are being cut it might be worth exploring as an option again. I cannot remember the process to do it, but it exists. I actually asked the Commissioners present if they would commit to pursuing it, but got a very indifferent response. It was almost as if the secret had been let out of the bag that the City COULD do something if they really wanted to.
For a long time the quick and easy answer was that it was a State Highway and beyond their control.
Agree with the sentiment expressed here. We also want to be able to get to Deepdene Park (and the rest of the trails). Even riding a bike on Scott on the sidewalk on Scott is terrifying. The crossing (with blinking light) at Venetian Pool is a joke. NOBODY will stop (kind of like Howard near the Friends House). There were families trying to cross to Venetian the other day. I stopped my car in my lane but nobody else would stop to allow the families to cross.
Back when I had children at Westchester (ten years ago) I remember the Decatur PD did a study of automobile speeds on Scott. The average speed during the morning was something like 50 to 55 mph, maybe more, with numerous cars exceeding 50. The issued many speeding tickets. I was always afraid to let my kids walk or ride a bike because they would have to cross Scott. All the suggestions listed above are wonderful. Something must be done about Scott and West Howard.
I occasionally ride my bike on Ponce/Scott, especially when I need to connect from the Candler Park PATH to the bike lanes entering Decatur on Ponce de Leon.
All I will say is that the presence of bikes on these stretches of road affects others’ driving habits. We have already heard such things as “why are bikes on that stretch of Ponce when there’s a sidewalk/path?” and other questions regarding the use of the streets. The answer, my friends, is that bicycles are vehicles in Georgia and are entitled to the use of the roadway in the same manner as automobiles.
So, I would not recommend that inexperienced cyclists get out there, but more bikes on Ponce/Scott will have a calming effect, just like on every other street.
It continues to bother me when these residential streets are treated like limited-access highways.
You have the legal right to ride your bike on Ponce, but by doing so, you are essentially making Ponce and one lane road. There’s not enough of a shoulder there for cars to pass you without changing lanes, especially with the new 3 foot law. You have the legal right to do this, but that does not make it a good idea. It strikes me as selfish to take an entire lane of a pretty major artery, especially at or near rush hour, and it contributes to drivers thinking that cylists have an entitlement mentality and are oblivious to interfering with traffic. Drivers also have a right to get where they are going.
I’m a cyclist too, but I think we need to compromise a bit and try to avoid major thoroughfares that just aren’t suited to bikes, especially when there are alternative routes that are bike friendly. I get to and from midtown every day without riding on Ponce or Scott (as opposed to crossing it at a stoplight). I avoided Ponce altogether when I commuted Decatur to downtown. I really can’t see why getting from Cander Park to the Decatur bike lanes requires riding on Ponce at all.
I don’t see this as selfish at all. I view it as traveling from point A to point B in a convenient fashion, just like drivers. I also view two lanes as safer than single lanes, since a driver may use their advantages to maneuver to the other lane and safely pass without passing the center line, just like they would do with any other vehicle.
I don’t accept your suitability argument.
I understand what you are saying, but “any other vehicle” on Ponce is not averaging 12 mph. At that speed you are almost a rolling roadblock on Ponce, even if the drivers are doing the speed limit. The realitty is that a driver will come up on you very fast, have to jam the breaks and wait to change lanes while the cars on the left whiz past him. I average 20 mph and still wouldn’t even think of riding on that road under any normal circumstance. To each his own. Good luck.
Well put, Dem. There are certain roads that cyclist have no business riding on, for their own safety, even if they are protected by the laws of the road. It’s just crazy.
In sharing the road, bicyclists are protected by their own skills and good judgment, as well as the skills and good judgment of motorists. (Since motorists have the “advantage” of mass in a collision.)
If driver had never seen bicyclists I would buy the argument that bikes don’t belong. That is not the case. It is simply in the best interest of all parties to be aware of their presence and adapt.
Back on topic, I agree that a median and more traffic calming on Scott could enhance safety. It is a shame that a beatifully-restored Frederick Law Olmstead Park (along Ponce intown) joins this nasty stretch of road.
In sharing the road, bicyclists are protected by their own skills and good judgment, as well as the skills and good judgment of motorists. (Since motorists have the “advantage” of mass in a collision.)
If drivers had never seen bicyclists I would buy the argument that bikes don’t belong. That is not the case. It is simply in the best interest of all parties to be aware of their presence and adapt.
Back on topic, I agree that a median and more traffic calming on Scott could enhance safety. It is a shame that a beatifully-restored Frederick Law Olmstead Park (along Ponce intown) joins this nasty stretch of road.
I can hear you. You don’t need to repeat yourself. (kidding) Other than the FLO park adjacent to the roadway and the curves, what is different about Ponce intown between the curbs? Narrower? Even less safe for cyclist. As for sharing the road, I’ll leave that to your best judgement. 20 pound bicycle with unprotected human traveling at 12 mph vs. 3000 pound plus automobile traveling at 40 mph with 16 year old listening to I Pod on ear phones or adult putting on make up….
Curbs instead of graded shoulders do pose a problem for a bicyclist’s position on this and many city streets. Cyclists move away from the shoulder, taking more of the lane when curbs are present, as a safety precaution. There is nothing fun about driving into a curb.
I was speaking of the attractive landscaping, not so much the barely adequate lanes. Agree that they are unsafe, for bike or auto.
People make mistakes and cause accidents. Distracted drivers more often than others. Education/public awareness and increased enforcement will go a long way towards improving our odds of coexisting with reckless drivers.
Edited to add: My 12 mph average includes a great deal of climbing, which drops my average considerably, and a lovely bit of downhill. I’m not always poking along. I move as far to the right as practicable when climbing and when I am not traveling at the speed as other traffic, unless I am making a left turn. (To paraphrase Georgia law.)
“bicycles are vehicles in Georgia and are entitled to the use of the roadway in the same manner as automobiles”
And therefore should be following the same laws as automobiles in regards to things like stop signs and red lights. Once again on Saturday during the Arts Fest I saw a bicyclist blatantly run a red light and almost get hit.
When you travel by bike, averaging 12 mph, you frequently see this as well as automobiles running red lights and almost getting hit.
Practice defensive driving.
I’m not an experienced cyclist, and I’m not going to take risks by riding on a fast-paced thoroughfare on which I’ll back up traffic. Maybe you’ve seen me? I have a pink kitty-print lined basket on the front of my bike and I pull my toddler in a trailor behind. Am about as non bad-arse as it gets on a bike. That said, I always attempt to practice safe cycling and obey the rules of the road.
My original point was, for those of us Decatorites who live on the other side of Scott, we must cross Scott via bikes, feet, strollers, wheelchairs, etc. in one piece to arrive downtown. The cuts to the Scott improvements in the state transportation plan are therefore disappointing.
I am encouraged to learn from other posters on this thread that more local intervention may be possible.
“and I pull my toddler in a trailor behind.”
I see lots of folks doing this, and makes me as nervous as when I see people with their dog leashes tethered to their strollers.
You can see in front of you and side to side, but anything could happen out of your line of sight in a split second, that could be disastrous for parents and fragile babies. This could happen in a car as well, but there are obvious disadvantages when it’s on a bike. People shouldn’t live their life in a bubble, but this seems like an unnecessary risk that outweighs any potential benefit, even on neighborhood streets.
R, I’m nervous too, which is why I make every effort to make smart decisions about where and when I cycle with my daughter and being wary of dangers around us. When he’s able, my husband bikes behind us for added safety.
There’s no perfectly safe solution, but we can’t live in bubbles, as you pointed out. I’m more comfortable with bike trailers than child seats attached to bikes, which can flip along with the bike. At least the trailer stays upright if the bike falls.
The risks do outweigh the benefit. The benefits of a healthy and active living–ditching the car and walking, running, cycling, etc., beat car living for individuals, families, communities, and the planet. Decatur’s commitment to facilitating that lifestyle in part through the safety improvements we’ve been discussing on this thread is one thing that makes our town so awesome.
The idea is to minimize the risk. We’re in the weeds regarding the debate on where and when to cycle and use bike trailers. If we had safer places to conduct those activities, the point would be moot.
I share your sentiments.
I love tunnels. Always have. So I’m picturing a couple of tunnels that go under Scott Blvd. That way, there is no danger of pedestrians getting hit when crossing.
Of course, I have no concept of the cost or difficulty of building tunnels under the road. I just love tunnels (except when people use them as bathrooms).
We’ll let you arbitrate the location of the tunnel or maybe we just put one every 100 yds. On the difficulty scale, tunnels are almost impossible to cross major roads. I was involved with the planning for a tunnel from the First Baptist Church parking deck to the Fidelity Building. Due to the existing utilities that had to be crossed, it was impossible.
Thumbs up for tunnels here too! And we need one from Commerce to Renfroe also. (I understand that the railroad owns the land around the tracks, but do they own it all the way down through bedrock through the molten core of the earth to China? City has no right to dig a tunnel? Or are tunnels prohibitively expensive?)
The only problem I see with tunnels is the unsavory things that can happen in them. But some good lighting, maybe a webcam hooked up to this blog for parental and Decatur Police review, and a steady parade of parents, strollers, walk and rollers, and volunteers could probably mitigate the risk. It could be an annual art project, to paint over the graffiti.
Tunnels add character. Look at Krog Street. Pedestrian overpasses seem to be in vogue, though.
Unless you have agreements to the contrary, I believe you in effect own the dirt underneath your property straight down as well as the sky above. That’s why utility companys need easements to come over or under your property.
Yes, the land underneath the railroad’s right-of-way is their property and any tunnel or underpass would have to conform to their engineering criteria (trains are very heavy) as well as highway design criteria and ADA criteria. Tunnels and underpasses are very expensive to build. For instance, I think I saw figures to underpass the railroad at Candler St of between $3M and $5M.
Wow, that is expensive. As I mentioned, I know nothing about constructing tunnels, so that’s disappointing to learn. Oh well, one can dream. And I still love tunnels.
why is it that the u.s. has such amazing roads and so few sidewalks? or bike lanes? or such high obesity?
But, all is not lost. You have to admit that compared to the rest of the world, we have good dental hygiene.
There was an interesting Blog reference by PEDS today. It was in relation to Wisconsin but i think the same relevant argument can be made here.
Essentially, why are we putting more dollars into expanding our road infrastructure when we can’t maintain we’ve currently laid out? In that vein, even “widening” a certain corridor is, in fact, creating more roadwork that needs to be maintained. It’s an interesting premise.
http://transportationnation.org/2011/06/01/if-we-cant-afford-to-fix-roads-can-we-afford-to-build-roads/
How about a couple of up and over walkways on Scott? Should be cheaper than a tunnel.
I’ve wondered this myself. I would think that they could be made bike and wheelchair accessible as well. I wonder if something like that would be considered unsightly? Even if that were the case, it would seem that Decatur’s intent to not just be pedestrian friendly, but to encourage walkin’ and rollin’ would outweigh concerns over aesthetics.
Such a cross-over could fit into that Peavine Trail suggested above.
I sympathize with the folks in that NW corner who have to negotiate Scott. It really is unpleasant to ride along. And scary to cross anywhere but at the light at Clairmont.
They would have to me ADA compliant, which is one reason that they’re also pretty expensive with long ramps, etc.
Heavy Sigh… I pushed the GA DOT to get these improvements for a few years now. I’ve checked in with the City to see if they were actually going to get done every 6 months or so. Everyone always provided assurances they would be accomplished. I have to say I’m not surprised though. Just disappointed.
No question – Scott Blvd is a tough one. Rob did a great job staying on top of GDOT and finally getting them to re-stripe Scott so the travel lanes were moved farther away from the curb face. It’s in the section basically from Clairemont to Venetian Pools.
Some time ago (5-6 years?) GDOT redid their street design guidelines and a number of us tried to get them to change their street classifications to allow more sidewalk space, trees, benches, etc. We thought they were going to accept the recommendations, but they changed them at the last minute. I believe it was the Chief Engineer at the time who was quoted by the AJS as saying that sidewalks were considered “vehicle recovery zones” and the GDOT was not going to add any fixed objects (like trees, benches,etc.) along the right-of-way. Needless to say, he caught a lot of flack for that comment! So GDOT ended up classifying streets by their speed limit and what “objects” could be placed next to the street and how far they had to be from the curb, I believe the speed change was 35 mph. Above that, a tree, etc. had to be way away from the curb. Below 35 mph, things could be a lot closer.
Since Scott is rated above 35mph, there’s nothing that the City could do to turn that stretch into a boulevard type street or anything where trees, benches or other treatments are anywhere close to the edge of the roadway. Plus Scott is a state highway route and GDOT is fierce about refusing to let “locals” make any changes to those routes.
Rob was very instumental in getting GDOT to at least move the side stripes away from the curb and narrow the travel lanes. He also got them to cut and trim the grass and bushes on the Westchester side of Scott – something they at first refused to do until Rob and the City pointed out that if it was “their” road, then they had the responsibility to maintain the sidewalks.
They “owe” the community a sidewalk on the Garden Lane side of Scott and – believe it or not – that will eventually happen…. (I hope!)
Fred, the state highway route continues on Ponce through Druid Hills and into downtown. So why does the speed limit change when the road leaves Decatur and enters the city of Atlanta? They’ve planted trees and put in street lights all along there. Why is Scott different if it’s the same state route?
And Clairemont is also a state route, but we seem to be able to make changes there. Why does GDOT allow that? Just asking.