High-Speed Fail
Decatur Metro | January 28, 2010Aw heck…
Georgia appears to have won as little as $750,000 from the $8 billion pool of high-speed rail grants that President Obama was scheduled to announce this week…
The money to be announced Thursday would pay for three feasibility studies, at $250,000 each…
Last fall, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told a number of states, including Georgia and Florida, that they had better get their act together on rail transit or risk losing out on the high-speed rail grants. In a special session weeks later, Florida voted additional annual funding for one rail transit line and expedited buying track for another.
According to the AJC, it looks like Florida will be the big high-speed winner in the Southeast. I guess the fed wasn’t all that concerned with investing in a state that could serve as a regional hub.
Or we just totally blew it.
h/t: Terminal Station (actually I also used Ben’s cut-and-paste)
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For one thing, Florida called a special session of the legislature to make sure they had their ducks in a row. Georgia has had over $80M in the Fed’s bank for almost 10 years waiting on matching funds from the state. Secretary LaHood (a Republican, BTW), told Georgia last fall that we “need to get our act together”, but we haven’t been able to do that for 20 years. As long as the current attitude prevails, we won’t ever be a regional hub. As a matter of fact, we’ll move the other way.
It looks like Georgia will be bypassed by the new rail development, and deservedly so. What kind of effort has Perdue and the state legislature made to be believably involved in transportation infrastructure and its development? It looks “natural” on the map that Georgia would be on the nationwide routes being planned, but likely now it will not be. The extension of legs from the Florida system will service only coastal Georgia, and the rest will go west across the Gulf states.
Chira, is there a map you can link to? I’m really depressed now, even though I understand the reasoning.
I wish the fed made these decisions based on a limited and selective sample of blog-passion.
Here’s a map:
http://usdotblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00e551eea4f588340128771ffb23970c-pi
Looking at this map makes me sad! What a great opportunity to connect Atlanta to Charlotte and on to Washington and the Northeast! Our legislature is blowing it big time here!
This seals the deal that Charlotte will become the Atlanta of the 21st Century.
Atlanta may become Detroit.
Atlanta will continue to spread north, suck in Greenville and merge with Charlotte in a megalopolis. Think DC, NYC, and Philadelphia.
AMB, sounds like Judge Dredd.
I am speculating that Georgia will be way behind the ball on high-speed rail (HSR) because of their lack of commitment and preparation for HSR development. Presently available HSR corridor maps (just Google it) do show a possible line coming north from Florida through Macon and Atlanta, and another going NE-SW through Atlanta. North Carolina is already working on upgrading their rail lines in anticipation for the line extending north through NC. I don’t know the status of HSR commitment/preparation in SC, because their elected officials seem to have other priorities at this time. Georgia’s ignoring of the federal funds already available for such transportation development and its foot-dragging lack of interest in investing more in rail/mass transit put us in a bad position to receive more federal funding than that already announced. Maybe Georgia’s politicians consider railroads to be more “socialistic” than highways.
Don’t forget that these projects were preferred to be at some point of readiness for implementation. Georgia doesn’t have any high speed rail projects anywhere near the implementation phase so it wasn’t realistic that we would even have a shot at money for capital projects.
As far as the national high-speed rail network goes, remember that it is not meant to connect far flung places together, i.e. Atlanta and L.A. or even Atlanta and Miami. It’s meant for the sweet spot of about 200-500 miles the size of a “megaregion”. As soon as Georgia gets a high speed rail plan together and some concrete plans for a project I would bet their will be money available for high speed rail to Charlotte.
Are we trying to achieve the award for the most backward state in the union, because we are doing a really great job of reaching that goal!
We’re almost there already – Georgia is 49th in the country in transportation spending per person.
Isn’t that also our ranking for education? Yippee. I’m so glad I live here.
We still proudly boast that we are less embarrassing than South Carolina – at least for the time being.
LOL! Thanks for reminding us! Any day now, Georgia will think of a way to be #1 on that list.
Perhaps Georgians are afraid of another Sherman using the HSR in order to burn Atlanta to the ground again.
Geez…even Vermont is getting $50 million! Click HERE for a great wrap-up of who is getting what.
The only way to keep myself from plummeting into a dark tunnel of train-depression is to say, well if Illinois and Florida both get a ton of money and they ever want to connect the two, they’ll have to go through GA.
I know, it’s a long shot. But at least it’s more likely than GA ever coming around to seeing the value of public transit.
And is it just me, but why would the fed care about connection Orlando to Tampa when it doesn’t have the potential to ever cross state lines?
P.S. The fact that the line stretches from the Northeast to Charlotte and stops is a major fail. No one else was in a better position to beg for money than Atlanta.
“one else was in a better position to beg for money” “beg” is operative word here. With our track record, we had no right to any more than we got.
“why would the fed care about connection Orlando to Tampa when it doesn’t have the potential to ever cross state lines”
Let’s remember that this is largely a jobs program. This area is one of the hardest hit economically and could benefit from a large rail construction program!
Anyone who has ever been on I-4 would understand why. Sometimes it would make I-85 look like the Indy 500. It is not unheard of to take 3 hours between those two cities.
And let’s also remember that the feds aren’t necessarily just going to give it to the ‘most deserving’ state. Politics is politics, and our neighbors to the south have a lot of electoral votes and a fairly evenly divided electorate, so giving a program like this to FL is pretty much a no-brainer for the party in power (regardless of R or D affiliation).
Also, Tampa and Orlando are both great vacation destinations, so air travel to either one could be combined with HSR to visit the other city and great/fun attractions there.
Vermont is getting $50 million of money we don’t have. I guess the fact that we can’t afford this just doesn’t matter to most people, and certainly not Congress. “Unsustainable” is a popular word these days, except when it comes to public spending. Let’s just borrow another trillion, oh what the hell.
But think about how quickly they could get us fresh maple syrup. Pour some of that on a pile of hot-off-the-griddle pancakes and $50 mil doesn’t sound like such a bad deal now, does it?
I’m not sure that wanting the money and being pissed about overspending are mutually exclusive.
I’d have to disagree on that one.
I think they probably care about Orlando – Tampa because Florida’s a swing state (and, like was said above, an economically depressed one). Plus, it’s a short line that’s easily realized.
I agree with Lain that these are two big factors behind it. Georgia is not a swing state, so there’s not a lot of impetus to curry favor. And while Atlanta is a major transportation hub, it’s relatively isolated from other major burghs. Connecting big, relatively close metropolises will be an initial priority (making routes like Portland – Seattle – Vacouver a no-brainer). I suspect tying in Atlanta will come in the next phase….whenever that happens. I still cling to my dream of high-speed rail from Atlanta to New Orleans…
Regardless, our pols failed big time in getting Georgia a piece of this pie from the get-go.
“Swing state” would seem to matter more than anything else.
You would think that a city that has always thrived by exploiting transportation opportunities (first with rail and then with air) would be all over this.
I guess it’ll just be another opportunity for Charlotte to do a better job of running the Atlanta Play Book.
As I sit typing this in London (where I spend about 1/2 the year), the trains have lately been getting nothing but bad press:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article7003799.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/7087644/Punctuality-becomes-a-thing-of-the-past-on-the-Adonis-express.html
And the local train from London Paddington to Oxford costs about $33 USD round trip (for what is otherwise an hour drive) unless you want to travel off-peak. And the train operator on that route still gets a massive annual subsidy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/nov/04/firstgroup-taxpayer-subsidy
Anyways, something of a rant: I do like trains for some trips, but they can be expensive and frustrating. Trains are not an unequivocal good…
AAA airport shuttle to Athens is $45 EACH way, $90 round-trip. $33 round-trip sounds very good to me!
Chira – I should be more explicit – OXF to Paddington is a daily commute for many people. And during rush hour, you often have to stand for the entire journey… I know I have.
But my more general point is that the nature of rail travel is that the government or a government-sponsored entity often has to own the track and station facilities… and the train companies often operate mini-monopolies regulated by a contract (exclusive government franchise). When problems arise – they each blame the other.
The result in the UK has meant high fares and poor service in many cases. Again, I’m still a fan of train travel generally, but I have had some terrible experiences and paid load of money into the UK system.
Sec of Transportation Ray LaHood was in Atlanta a couple of months ago telling us we need to get our act together on trains. Sonny was asleep at the switch.
Not really – For all the reasons already listed, Georgia was never going to be in line for enough money to make a difference in rail travel. It’s a shame, but it’s the reality. Why waste time and energy for something with a very low likelihood of success? Blame Sonny for whatever else, but not this.
I suspect the fine folks of Georgia view high speed rail the same way they view MARTA rail expansion into the suburbs: Just another means of bringing in unsavory folks who will steal their televisions.
Also, trains do not make water, and Sonny and Co. were clearly told that the only thing they should worry about is water. They can’t be expected to focus on more than one thing at a time.
Lump, your sarcasm inspires me: “Just another means of bringing in unsavory folks who will steal their televisions.” I have yet to see anyone on a MARTA train or bus carrying a television. The logistics of such a foray make me laugh to think about it. Some “unsavory” person could take a train from the inner city out to Decatur station, walk or wait for a bus to some ritzy neighborhood, burglarize a home, lug the TV back to a bus stop, stand waiting on the street with said TV for 30 minutes to an hour for a bus ride back to Decatur station, and then ride the train to carry their booty back into the evil center of the city. Here are the items I most frequently see being carried on MARTA trains and buses: babies, baby strollers, briefcases, shopping bags (oooooooooh what’s IN those shopping bags?), books, CD players, backpacks, crutches, walkers, wheelchairs, and all the people who go with them.
Well, well Miss Smarty Pants. Aren’t you cheeky.
You and I both know that if MARTA was extended into Cobb and Gwinnett, the gays and the lesbians would use it to ride on up from their Midtown brothels and recruit our unsuspecting sons and daughters!
But Lump, the train runs both ways! Do we really want those Cobb and Gwinnett people coming INTO the city for nefarious purposes?
You mean like trying to steal all the gays?
They already come here in their big SUVs to eat our non-chain restaurant food!
Atlanta gets a tremendous amount of money for the airport. Maybe that is one reason why transportation in other states got this investment.
Georgia could have a state-wide passenger rail network for the money that was spent on the 5th runway at Hartsfield.
And if our distinguished legislators were really interested in representing the best interests of the citizens of Georgia, they’d be begging, borrowing and stealing to get us statewide passenger rail. If there was ever one thing that might knit Atlanta and the rest of Georgia together and damp down the urban vs. everybody else rivalries (real and perceived), that would be it.
Passenger rail from where and to where, exacxtly? From Macon to Augusta? Douglasville to Dahlonega? What is the need for this, when it would cost an ungodly amount of money? I don’t understad this lusting after rail services that would seem to have little passenger demand.
At this point DEM, I have a pretty good grasp (and respect) for your rail argument, but I can’t let another “demand” argument go by unchallenged.
People demand what’s most convenient and affordable. And unfortunately for the past 80 years, there have been a lot of government support for cars, which has snowballed into the concrete infrastructure that we see today. I feel like any proof of real demand would have to take place in a vacuum, where there are no subsidies and all real economic costs are understood by the population. (Forget the currently un-felt environmental costs)
Bottomline: demand is subjective and manipulable. And while it can be a great indicator for selling a new gizmo, it’s not all that great a guide or indicator when you’re evaluating and developing a nation’s transportation options.
“(C)oncrete infrastructure”? WTF do you think “high speed rail” is made out of? Dude, a road is a road: the better questions are what pays the operating costs of the “road” and how? There isn’t one passenger rail system in the US that doesn’t rely upon an outside financing source to fund its operations. The fantasy of intra-state HSR is that “if you build it, they will come”. Really? There are BILLIONS of dollars worth of heavy rail passing through Decatur and when was the last time you used it to go anywhere? The Georgia Dome? Lenox? Perimeter?
Nougget, that heavy rail I believe is used for freight. Are you talking about MARTA? Because that’s a bad example of a good system, but a great example of the apathy that was detrimental to the building of decent rail system.
Don’t worry, no communists are going to take your car away from you.
“rail services that would seem to have little passenger demand”
What’s the source of your conjecture?
With one exception, every new rail service that’s been started in the last 20 years in the US has exceeded expectations. It is expensive, but highways are more so. As DM pointed out, our national policy since the 1950s has been heavily slanted toward highways.
Other places where national policy has been slanted otherwise have successful rail based systems. For instance, in Zurich, 57% of residents don’t own cars because they don’t need them to get around. Gasoline has a $3 per gallon tax (Georgia is 7 cents) and trucks that drive into and through Switzerland are heavily taxed to encourage the use of freight rail transportation.
Georgia is full of small communities that are severely under-served by health care facilities and services; and which have few if any job opportunities. Not everyone lives in a household with one vehicle per adult–although the lack of transportation options forces many to acquire and operate more vehicles than they can really afford. (That’s true in the city as well as rural areas, I know.) Access to health care is a particular challenge for elderly people when doctors and hospitals are an hour’s drive away or farther. Passenger rail operating on existing freight routes would provide tremendous benefits to Georgians who don’t happen to live in the larger cities.
DEM, would you please substantiate your claim that it “would cost an ungodly amount of money”? Your implication is that it wouldn’t be a worthwhile expenditure. I’m especially interested in that, given what is spent annually to “improve” highways all over the state. For example, GDOT spends years to convert perfectly serviceable, safe two-lane roads into four-lane roads–and you hardly ever pass another vehicle on them! But the highway contractors thrive, and the legislators get kudos for “looking after” their constituents.
I have two words: statewide planning.
We ain’t got it; therefore, we a mess.
Seriously. The Atlanta Business Chronicle ran an article recently on how the “two Georgias”- Atlanta and everywhere else- is a very unappealing proposition to businesses looking to relocate. Lack of any sort of realistic statewide growth planning – you know, the type that might bring statewide rail- and lack of comprehensive urban planning in the state’s population centers will make sure those jobs don’t come in and that those low-tier rankings are here to stay.
Here’s a followup story:
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/north-carolina-invests-wins-286101.html
Note that GDOT Board member David Doss calls commuter rail a “Choo-choo”. This speaks volumes about the outlook that GDOT has about rail.
This reply is for Nugget (no REPLY link on his entry above). I use MARTA every chance I get, and boy is it great to get anywhere downtown without a hassle and without parking fees. I went to the GWCC to the American Meteorological Society meeting, had lunch at Peasant, and came home relaxed and happy with my day. The thing about HIGHWAYS is that you need to buy a vehicle and maintain said vehicle/insurance/registration/repair in order to use the concrete. Use of MARTA requires nothing more than a ticket. The federal/state funding for “highways only” should be trimmed in favor of mass transit systems that are more cost/fuel efficient.