Strong Support for 5th Avenue as 4/5 Academy?
Decatur Metro | March 26, 2009Garrett comments over on CSD Mom’s Reconfiguration blog that the most vocal support by parents at last night’s listening session was for Option#13, which calls for converting vacant 5th Avenue Elementary into the city’s new 4/5 academy.
Among the 13 options, #13 is the most costly upfront at more than $9 million to execute.
What do you think? Is 5th Ave as 4/5 the best solution?
I’m still unsure of what to support. And I don’t think I’m alone.
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One thing that strikes me [caveat: I have a child at Glennwood] is how important it should be to have central locations for 4/5 (and higher, as we do) that allow the most possible kids to bike and walk to school. It’s nice for elementary (K-3), of course, but many parents still manage transportation during those years. Around 4th grade, it becomes more reasonable for a child to get themselves to school, or for a larger group to do so with just one adult.
Having 4/5 down at 5th Avenue would preclude this option for an awful lot of kids. It’s not the only issue, of course, but I’d be happy if it were one of them.
I don’t know if there is a “best” solution, but I’ve heard a lot of people say that they’d rather see an existing building be used than to have it stay empty and build a new one at Renfroe. Makes sense, but how much renovation would there have to be? I keep seeing one person (can’t remember who!) say that 5th Ave is a tear-down.
Scott,
Just wondering why you think its more important for northside kids to be able to walk to school vs. southside kids being able to walk to school?
Keeping 4th and 5th grade at Glennwood also preclueds a lot of kids from walking to school as well, does it not? When there is to be only one 4/5 academy in town, I’m not sure that keeping 4th and 5th grade walkable for the tiny minority of kids who live a couple of blocks from Glennwood in the extreme northeast part of the city is the most important factor.
9 million dollars plus interest charged to taxpayers for the next 30 years. Unbelievable.
There was a lot of vocal support for 4/5 at 5th Ave, most of it from teachers. The view of parents was much more mixed, with perhaps some tendency against 4/5 at Renfroe.
Two very important factors that got little attention.
1) The underlying assumption I’ve mentioned in the previous thread on this topic: the enrollment projections. That is such an important number that it deserved to be worked on by independent experts. Flawed assumptions lead to flawed outcome.
2) Budgetary pressures. They are real and hardly mentioned by the speakers. Every dollar you spend to open a new school or construct (in the case of 5th Ave, both) COULD be money that later needs to be taken away from instruction, ancillary teachers and so forth. We’re already running a deficit and making cuts to the budget.
I am told by someone in a good position to know that we do not HAVE to do anything with a view to next year or even the year after. Let’s not spend money we don’t have to (or have), make a relatively small investment in some real, scientific demographic projections, take our time, and continue to refine and rank the options before making a very expensive and radical change that we can’t easily undo (or unspend).
Hats off to the reconfig committee and all in attendance last night. Decatur is an impressive community.
Scott, I guess if a kid from 2nd Avenue can bike to Glennwood, then a kid from Glennwood Estates can bike to 5th Avenue, right? I mean, kids from both sides are equally capable of getting to the other side, are they not?
5th Avenue is walkable for all of Oakhurst, College Heights, the SW segment of the Winnona district and Lenox Park. It is bikeable for Glennwood Estates and everyone else south of Scott Boulevard. All you have to do is move some crossing guards from the route to Glennwood to locations on the route to 5th Avenue. The folks north of Scott would have trouble biking to either Glennwood or 5th Avenue.
It’s not as central as Glenwood or Renfroe.. but do we really want 1400 kids on a tiny piece of land?
Another way to look at Option 13 is to use the 5th Ave school as an E-3 and put the 4-5 in Oakhurst, which is more central to the rest of Decatur. Oakhurst Elementary is roughly the same size as Glennwood (both around 300 students), and could add a few classrooms if necessary.
I think the factor the precluded Oakhurst as the 4/5 was an overall “precondition” to the committe that Oakhurst and Clairmont were fully built out and not able to be expanded. Which is not true, but I’d bet that condition ruled out some options, including enlarging Oakhurst to handle the 4/5.
What about Winnona as the 4/5? It can be expanded easily and probably more cheaply than either Renfroe or certainly 5th avenue. Then have GW/CL/OA as the K-3s and maybe Westchester as a K-3 if you need it?
Winnona would make a terrific 4/5 academy. It has a great field and it is more central than 5th avenue.
Excellent point! It looks to me like 5th Ave is smack in the middle of a very residential area, unlike Glennwood which is on a very busy road.
No one, certainly not me, said “most important factor,” 5th Ave. Only that it would be nice if it was a factor. Glennwood is more accessible by bike and foot to more people city-wide, just as any location closer to downtown would be.
I had friends down near 2nd Ave and Oakview whose child biked to Glennwood. I have friends in Winona Park whose kids walk there. And I also have friends on the northside just inside city limits on Church St. and friends in Great Lakes doing the same.
My child is a southside kid going to Glennwood and, when possible, she bikes there as well. I can’t imagine as many kids from as many neighborhoods doing the same for 5th Avenue and I think that should be factored in with the many other criteria being considered.
which of the 13 options do you prefer, foodie?
NOPE!
This might scare parents of 4th graders at first, but I think if they talk to parents at Renfroe, they are going to be very impressed with what is going on there.
Having said that, I think you should open a 5-8 at Renfroe. And honestly, you could do it as early as next year for no cost. (Moving to Renfroe versus not paying for trailers would be a wash. Don’t you think?) If you can get some kids out of trailers with no construction, no redistricting and no new bus routes in the next school year, you should do it. Although some parents are concerned about a 5-8 configuration, other parents are concerned about transitions. You could even think of it as a 5/6 academy and a 7/8 middle school. Going to a 5-8 at Renfroe gives a little bit of breathing room to see whether you would need 3 K-4 or 4 K-4. And if the 5-8 didn’t meet expectations, you could then do something that involved construction.
In terms of proximity to all students city-wide, I’m with you on that, E. Not that it’s currently on the table, but with more centralized locations for 4/5, middle and high school, together with more neighborhood-serving elementaries, there’s a more realistic (though not politically popular) possibility down the line of drastically cutting back our bus fleet if times get really tight.
E, is there some factor (or opposition) in regards to Option 13 that would preclude swapping 5th Ave with Oakhurst as you describe?
I agree with you, Scott. A centralized location for the 4/5 is important. It may not be the factor that trumps everything else, but I’m still looking for a better option that is more centralized. Much of the residential area near 5th Ave isn’t even in the City of Decatur!
I do not have a child who would be affected by a k-5 re-config but have the benefit of the knowledge from having gone through the last one. We think the 4/5 concept as a whole has worked very well, although k – 5 worked great before that. I am very opposed to putting lower grades at Renfroe, though, despite the great things going on there. I think everything up to and including 5th grade is “elementary school” and the kids need to get the kind of atmosphere available at an elementary school. That includes not having to bump up against older kids, and having a decent playground. I question whether there is room for either at Renfroe, and question whether Renfroe will also be able to meet space needs if it loses a chunk of ground to lower grades.
I would like the enrollment projection to be studied more, and more attention paid to the lack of economic power to go to private school for some of our residents, which also affects enrollment.
I also keep hearing that the administration already has its mind made up, regardless of what we want, much the same that I heard from calendar people about going to the 2010-11 calendar. Must say that going through another re-config so soon is quite disappointing.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt’ Glennwood just a few blocks from the eastern city limits of Decatur just like 5th Avenue is a few blocks from the southwestern city limits of Decatur? Given Glennwood’s location just east of downtown, just north of the rr tracks, and just east of the city limits, I would venture to guess that there are more households within a 4-5 block walkable radius of 5th Ave than Glennwood. But that’s just an educated guess.
I’m also still a bit wary about the enrollment projections Judd. Ultimately I hope the decision is made to hold off until we can do some better number-crunching…if that is at all possible.
In terms of other current unknowns, another that worries me is the potential of falling birth rates during recessions. Does anyone really think that 2010 births will be anything close to 2007? That could portend lower enrollments by 2015.
Glennwood is more central than 5th Ave. If you want to use the standard of ‘distance from the city limits’, Glenwood is just under a 0.5 miles away, while 5th Ave is about 0.2 miles away from the city limits. (In case anyone is wondering, Westchester is about 0.25 miles away and Oakhurst is about 0.35 miles away from the city limits).
Also, I would say a half-mile radius is a pretty easy walk to school. If you drew a half-mile radius around 5th Ave, more than 40 % of the area inside that circle isn’t in the City of Decatur.
Seems to me 5th Ave is a fine location for K -3, but the building needs a demo. That was stated at Wed. mtg. My opinion is that Westchester is not a good location because of Scott Blvd and the floodplain. It should have been a demo when they closed it! (and my children went there). And, no, 1400 children at RMS is not a good idea for all the reason stated above.
I agree with DM that we should hold off for more number crunching. We need to reach a community consensus, if possible (maybe not possible but I sure pray we don’t go through what we did 5 years ago).