Free-For-All Friday 11/1/13
Decatur Metro | November 1, 2013Feel free to use this post to make comments and ask questions about local issues not yet discussed here over the past week.
Comments close on Monday.
Feel free to use this post to make comments and ask questions about local issues not yet discussed here over the past week.
Comments close on Monday.
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I would like to address the parents who continue to ask for City Schools of Decatur to change our instructional model to K-5. I speak on behalf of my colleagues at the 4/5 Academy at Fifth Avenue and implore the few of you to STOP (PLEASE!) the constant talk of K-5 schools. Every time you mention reconfiguring the schools, it is a slap in the face to the teachers who have worked so hard to create the most enriching, engaging, internationally-minded experience for our 4th and 5th grade students. The 4/5 Academy WORKS- we strive to reach our vision every day: “The 4/5 Academy at Fifth Avenue will bridge academic and social connections between early learning and adolescence. We recognize and develop students’ strengths, appreciate and overcome students’ challenges, and ground our interactions in mutual respect and tolerance.” Have you seen our students’ video about our school?? http://vimeo.com/67212289
Additionally, the 4/5 Academy staff has created a united and strong professional learning community. Some of the FAVE teachers were one of only two teachers on their grade level team at the K-5 schools before the reconfiguration to K-3 and 4-5. The collaboration and professional community that we have at the 4/5 Academy is far richer and more experienced.
Finally, we have seen phenomenal success of our students at Renfroe Middle School. A huge contributor to our students’ middle school success is that they come together from across our great City from different socio-economic groups in sweet, preadolescence 4th grade instead of the sometimes-volatile, hormone-ridden 6th grade. The creation of a 4/5 academy is a direct contributor to the success of our Renfroe Middle School.
In closing, my colleagues and I beg parents who want to dismantle our beloved F.AVE to PLEASE STOP- it’s demoralizing to all of us. The K-3, 4-5 model helped to make City Schools of Decatur the BEST in the state. We ask you to please stop trying to change our schools back to K-5.
Since I know so little about school configurations and rezoning, I can’t really speak to the K-5 versus 4/5 academy back-and-forth.
But as the parent of a F.AVEr in their second year, I can say that our experience has been nothing short of spectacular. Watching him grow, mature and learn in such a positive environment has been a joy for us. And next year, when he goes to Renfroe, I know he will be more than ready.
So, Colleague, please accept my thanks and appreciation for everything you do at F.AVE.
Thanks. I have one at FAVE now and it has been great. I appreciate the opinion of someone who not only has skin in the game, but is well-informed. Keep doing what you do.
Speaking as someone who wants the 4/5 model revisited, please know that my request is no way an indictment of the teachers and administrators at F.AVE. However, the fact that, in your opinion, F.AVE is working doesn’t mean that our children would not be better served with a K-5 model. The 4/5 model (and the location of F.AVE) has a huge impact on all other grades at CSD, and given the recent growth of CoD, may be contributing to fracturing of neighborhoods, losing walkability and may be impacting other values which are important to most residents of CoD. What may have worked for the last decade may no longer work now.
Let me add that I think your request for parents to stop questioning the contiuning need for F.AVE is completely inappropriate (not to mention self-interested). Not only is it my right, it is my responsbiliity as a parent to continually evaluate what is best for my children. If that is too demoralizing, quit. Or, ideally, in the unlikely event that the K-5 model is adopted once again, I ask that you put all of your hard work, dedication of love for your students to work at the reconfigured schools so that those schools have the same level of success as you feel the F.AVE has achieved, and our children continue to thrive. This isn’t personal – we may just disagree about what is best for the children.
DawgFan, I don’t have a direct stake in this fight, and I definitely applaud your getting involved in the discussion. However, I do think that to make an effective case for returning to a K-5 model, advocates will need to respond directly to the issue of student achievement. FAVE Colleague points out that the 4/5 model has improved student moral, student achievement, and preparedness for 6th grade and up. The arguments I’m hearing from K-5 advocates are that the former model better promotes neighborhood cohesion and walkability. While I agree those are closely held values by many Decaturites, I don’t think they’re going to trump arguments around quality of education. If you want to make a strong case, make one where it counts.
“FAVE Colleague points out that the 4/5 model has improved student moral, student achievement, and preparedness for 6th grade and up”
Although I believe the K-5 model will best suit our needs, all I have ever asked is that we revisit the issue and make an informed decision (which, based on her letter yesteday, Dr. Edwards has all but vetoed). But, I think any improvements in the areas cited above are minimal at best, and are as much a result of the changing demographics in CoD as they are the 4/5 model. Further, for every parent who loves the 4/5 school, there is one who hasn’t had a similar experience or thinks the costs of the 4/5 outweigh any gains. I just don’t believe that switching to K-5 will have any detrimental effect on our students for 6th grade and up.
Agree with dawgfan. Its our job to explore, and our right to question.
DawgFan, you can questions all you want, but I disagree. I don’t want other parents making instructional programming decisions for my children. I’d like to leave those decisions to the professionals- the educators and administrators of our great school system.
So parents shouldn’t question what their children are learning and blindly follow the leader? Okay then.
I will point out that while the 4/5s have had some good effects on the students, they have not been perfect. We have experienced both of them and give them a mixed review. As with any school, it is the teacher you have and how your student interacts with that teacher that makes the biggest impact. I also think the rising scores have more to do with the changing demographics of the school system than with the 4/5 model. The turnover of Decatur from white and blue collar neighborhoods to homes in the $600K and above range is having a major impact. When both parents have been to college, the kids tend to have a bigger vocabulary and exposure then when the parents have not been to college. It may not be fair, but it is reality. And, it is not a racial issue as much as it is a socio-economic issue. While the video is nice, it does not really reflect those changes. However, the editor of the video has a future in making commercials for any corporate entity trying to show only happy, diverse people using their products! Involved parents are always questioning parents. The parents that work on the PTA, SLTs, and volunteer for everything are often the ones asking the questions and pushing the system to always become better. In short, thanks for your opinion, but get over the fact that not everyone agrees with you and they are also going to express their opinions!
+1. I don’t think anyone has said that the 4/5 Academy is a failure, just that the ever-increasing student population is going to make us need to make hard decisions and many support the k-5 model solely so we don’t have to re-zone every few years.
Our child has had two superb teachers at the 4/5 Academy. I personally haven’t heard anyone complain about the overall quality and dedication of the teachers or administrators at FAVE. I’m sure that if the school board decided to return to more traditional K-5 model, those professionals would continue to do an outstanding job.The 4/5 solution may well have helped Decatur overcome the de facto segregation of the elementary schools, and may have helped ease the transition to Renfroe, but I’m not convinced it is sustainable long-term.
I have heard a lot of negative about the 4/5, especially from parents of special needs kids.
Care to elaborate? What reasons, and what sorts of special needs? (I ask in part because I’m curious, but also because my daughter has special needs and is currently in elementary school. We’ve been very happy with CSD so far.)
I have heard from two parents that the principal was not responsive to concerns and that one child’s physical disabilities were not accommodated and were often ignored for two years. I can’t give out more details without outing! One family left the system and one endured but curtailed involvement after being very active.
OK, thanks.
I don’t have kids in the CSD anymore, but my daughter was among the first class to transition from the 4/5 Academy to Renfroe. Not only did she receive a great education, I believe the kids get along much better in Middle School because they all have time to get to know each other before they become hormonal, socially-awkward young teens. She and her peers reported that they had a GREAT middle school experience, which I’d honestly never heard anyone ever say. While a good social experience does not necessarily mean they’re receiving a solid education, it certainly clears the way for them to be receptive to one.
As for the location of the Academy, I don’t have much sympathy. When my daughter was at the Academy, it was at Glenwood and she and I were walking to the end of the street in the dark at 6:30 every morning so she could catch the bus across town. FYI, the closest cross street to my house is about 20 feet away; however, the bus picked her up at the other end of the street. As far as I can tell, neither she nor the neighborhood suffered from this.
She’s now in her second year of college, doing well and building on the great education she received at all the CSD schools she attended. Considering the number of my friends’ kids who graduated from other school systems only to flunk out the first year of college because they didn’t have the self-discipline or study skills to make it, I feel nothing but gratitude for the way in which CDS prepared her for higher education.
Thank you for this. It really puts things into perspective. I have a child at the 4/5 who is thriving and loves it there. When I ask her if she wishes there was a K-5 school the answer is a resounding no.
FAVE Colleague, I think your comment is inappropriate. While you are certainly a stakeholder as an employee, you are not a parent or a taxpayer in the context in which you have chosen to speak. As an employee of the school, I am shocked you feel you have a right to demand that parents and taxpayers – your employers- cease discussion because you think something works from your limited point of view. We are thinking about how we feel about the impact of these constant changes and reconfigurations on our families, our children, our system as whole, the drain on our tax dollars, and the overall impact on our community and how it moves forward. It is about the school board and superintendent being held accountable for making choices that are correct for our community. It’s much more than just educational outcomes. Perhaps in the future, you will realize that this is about more than just your universe and word your opinions accordingly. I would like to have read this opinion without a demand that we cease our discussions on what we want as a community from this process.
I think we all need to give a little slack to the FAVE teacher– yes, he/she should have had someone a little less passion-based review the letter for tone and best approach to sharing the opinion. But I’ve cut them some slack as I know the thoughts are coming from deeply involved teacher(s) who have invested a lot of their time and efforts (often beyond what us as taxpayers fund) into creating the best FAVE possible. I’m taking the comments to mean that there are some valuable school-based reasons to consider when thinking about changing the formulation of the grades. Yes, I think the entire community should be involved in discussions regarding our schools, but that also includes the teachers. All of the comments regarding inconvenience and preservation of community (neighborhoods) prior to the teacher’s post have been about families. I do think it was about time to hear from the teachers. I ask that community members remember that the teachers have an interest in the schools as well, no less valid if they aren’t residents in the City. I’m thankful we have such committed teachers.
Then s/he should have thought this out before they posted. It is flat out not appropriate and counterproductive. Her/his perspective is valuable on how the model is working. Demanding we cease discussions for alternatives is beyond this person’s scope. This note could have been very constructive. It is not.
Darned right, because the rest of us ALWAYS think through everything we have to say before we post, and edit and polish to ensure that we are framing our comment in the most constructive way possible and that nobody–especially anyone who might have a knee-jerk reaction–can find any fault with how we’ve expressed our thoughts.
FAVE educator’s post was more inflammatory than constructive. That’s a shame, because what our community needs is a thoughtful conversation about the pros and cons of possible k-5 conversion, and CSD educators’ input will be an important part of that discussion.
I’m not going to cut FAVE educator slack on his or her comments, despite the emotion all stakeholders feel about this topic. It’s unprofessional and inappropriate to indicate that one speaks for a group of employees (unless the spokesperson role is formalized) and to direct the people who pay a significant portion of your salary to end discussion on a topic impacting their own children.
Perhaps FAVE educator is actually a proponent of k-5 stirring up trouble. If not, she or he has done more harm than good today.
This is why I dislike anonymous posts from both sides. If you have something important to say on a subject of intense concern, please use your real name. I know, most of y’all disagree with me. But people who stand behind what they say use their real names.
I agree.
Me too!
some people who stand behind what they say use their real names. some don’t. likewise, some people who don’t stand behind what they say use their real names. some don’t.
and i stand behind that statement.
Yeah STG, but most of is aren’t running around demanding voices be silenced on a hot topic issue and proclaiming to speak for the whole school. This person set herself up to be a spokeswoman knowing full well she would upset some folks.
How do we know it’s a she, not he?
I am using a pronoun.
how do you know the pronoun isn’t using you?
How much Halloween candy did you eat?
If you were at a school meeting or school board meeting and a school employee stood up and said “Shut up! We know better than you what is best for your kids and really don’t want to hear what you have to say”, you would be calling for that person’s head. How is this any different? B/c they said it anonymously on a blog?
Side question to Cranky Old Timer 1197- why did you change your name from Nelliebelle? Of course its anyone’s right to do so, but I really like hearing from Nelliebelle on the various posts on DM (even though I don’t always agree).
I did it in honor of cranky old timer moving out of state for a few weeks but one of my many devices keeps auto filling!!! Can’t get it to “forget”!
That is irrelevant. FAVE Colleague chose to speak in his/her capacity as an employee of F.AVE.
Hmm. That was a response to immodest proposal, but I guess the comment got deleted.
I wonder what percentage of those in favor of switching back to the K-5 model live on the north side of town. Does their motivation have more to do with the quality of the education or the pain in the A@#$ of having to cross the tracks and being closer to the ‘hood. I see many references to how inconvenient it is to get to FAVE, being at the “extreme” end of town. Of course, at the time of it’s development, 5th Ave School was empty, so it was a logical economic decision to build there. Can you imagine the uproar if they had razed Clairemont to build a new 4/5 school? Once again, another first world (or 1%) problem.
I saw no reference to any “hoods” but I do know what a pain it is to have that school so far on the other side of town. The bus picks up at 6:30am. Kind of early, no? I brought up the distance because everyone wants walkability for K-3 but no one seems concerned about walkabilty for 4th grade and up.
The FAVE bus comes early for WP kids too. I liked the first year when it opened a hour later! Being in one corner of the city, it isn’t practical to walk for most of Decatur. The original proposal was to build the 4/5 on Renfroe’s campus (as a separate school). Many parents protested. Personally, I thought building the 4/5 at Renfroe was fine and liked that it’s fairly central to the city. But the administration, committee, and school board responded, and rightfully so, to the large number of parents who felt uncomfortable with 4th and 5th graders in close proximity to middle schoolers and the 4/5 was built in the less geographically convenient Fifth Ave site, as it was the most viable alternative. So I have had a “we made our bed and now we have to lie in it” attitude toward walkability and FAVE….
Thanks, Larkspur, for the information. We’ve only been here for 2 years so I don’t know most of the history. For us personally, a later start time at 4/5 would be great!
I support K-5 and I’m south side. My k-3 doesn’t change on any of the zoning maps. It is about sustainability to me.
Great response. Thank you.
In my son’s first grade class at OAK they are exploring “what one little person can do.”
And here, faculty is telling us this should not even be open for discussion?
We are not slinging insults at faculty – we moved to Decatur for the great schools. Please allow public discourse.
Cranky,
You are entitled to your questioning, but I personally don’t want other parents making instructional programming decisions for my children. I want to leave that in the capable hands of the professionals- the educators and administrators of our great school system.
I personally don’t want a system where parents are blindly accepting what the school system says without analysis and careful consideration. And you do realize people aren’t angry about instruction and the issues aren’t really about what is happening in the classroom, right?
Most people are responding (negatively) to the request to stop talking about reverting to the K-5 model, and I want to make sure that the following point doesn’t get lost:
Additionally, the 4/5 Academy staff has created a united and strong professional learning community. Some of the FAVE teachers were one of only two teachers on their grade level team at the K-5 schools before the reconfiguration to K-3 and 4-5. The collaboration and professional community that we have at the 4/5 Academy is far richer and more experienced.
Dr. Edwards’ call to maintain continuity isn’t just a matter of wanting to stick to the same model for the sake of sticking to the same model. FAVE has developed programs on the basis of being a 4/5 academy: it’s an IB school, with an IB coordinator. The art and music programs were developed with an eye to 4th and 5th graders. The FAVE library is appropriate for children of that age. Similar considerations apply to our current elementary schools: they’re all Expeditionary Learning schools, with the various units organized around the EL theme they’re exploring. They’ve built up their own communities and programs on the basis of being K-3 schools. So converting FAVE and all of the other schools into K-5 schools and seeding the FAVE teaching all across the district would involve a pretty significant disruption of the communities and programs the schools have built up.
Of course, people would adjust (just like they adjusted to the reconfiguration ten years ago), and things would work out. But these are genuine costs that need to be factored into any discussion.
Please, FAVE colleague, do not take talk of considering a k-5 as a personal attack upon the staff at FAVE. No more than it was an a personal attack upon anybody a decade ago when schools were closed and reconfigured, or the current re-zoning options are a personal attack on residents of Winnona Park or anyone else.
I can only speak for myself, but I would hazard to guess parents believe CSD staff would do the same high quality work in any configuration. That is a testament to you and your colleagues. I really do get where you’re coming from. I think it’s a good thing you posted your comment, since all sides should be heard, and I hope we can all understand and respect each others’ points of view even if we all have differing opinions.
I appreciate your comments. I do not yet have a child at F.AVE but will in 3 years. I don’t have a problem with the concept or the type of learning program there but I do have some concerns.
If IB is so well regarded and it is available for children as young as 3, why aren’t we using it in our K-3 schools? I hear that mixing Expeditionary Learning and IB in one school would not work well but why are we mixing them in our school system?
I have also heard that the administration at F.AVE does not allow for parental involvement. This seems like a drastic change from the K-3 schools and again I wonder why. Parents should not be allow to interfere with the work that takes place in the schools but not allowing parental involvement seems detrimental.
The reason why K-3/4-5 vs. K-5 is being debated is because we crave stability in our schools and in our neighborhoods. Rezoning is hard. We should look into all of the ways that we can rezone as seldom as possible even though our enrollment is surging.
All of the schools are great. All of the neighborhoods are great. We are here for those reasons. I believe that we all want both of these statements to remain as true as they are today and that we are working together to achieve that.
The reason why K-3/4-5 vs. K-5 is being debated is because we crave stability in our schools and in our neighborhoods. Rezoning is hard. We should look into all of the ways that we can rezone as seldom as possible even though our enrollment is surging.
I like this comment.
Thank you to all FAVE teachers for their dedication to students and the school. Your work is so important and challenging and I am very grateful.
I am sure that hearing all the chatter about evaluating grade spans feels personal and critical. I doubt anyone asking for a re-look at our CSD grade-span strategy would say it’s about bad teachers. So please know, requests for a strategic assessment of our current configuration are not about a lack of confidence in our teachers or even in the education they are receiving at FAVE.
Please disregard some of the harsh comments. I think it’s great to get an internal perspective that says teachers feel good about the 4/5 model. That is important information. Important information that a strategic assessment of grade-spans would uncover. Your comment also reminds us that when we question what’s happening at the schools we need to remember the hard work that goes into educating our children every day at all of the CSD schools. Perhaps when we talk about schools we should hold ourselves to a higher level of respectfulness than when we talk about other issues (say Walmart plans).
There is no denying however, that this issue continues to come up. Why? Is it just parental fears about change, about sending their kids off to the big house? Maybe. But I don’t think we can so easily dismiss it as parental hand wringing. As convenient as that might be.
Let’s be willing to ask some important questions….
Would longer grade spans allow more stability and flexibility given our capacity? I’d love to understand the analysis, or at least know some cross section of folks understands. And not with years old numbers. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t.
Does the value of our past 4/5 model erode after a certain size? What was great at 350 students becomes detrimental at 750?
Maybe that huge size increase suggests a small shift is needed. Waiting one more year until kids go to a significantly larger school k-4, 5/6 and 7/8/
How would that impact our capacity issues?
What is the FAVE experience for kids and families and teachers?
I hear a lot of anecdotes and more concern then at any other school. This may be misplaced but that indicates there is work to do. Culture and expectations matter and you can’t just tell it to stop.
What is it about the FAVE experience that makes people question its role?
What is it that we want to do? Best educational choices for 4/5 grades or runway to Renfroe? Is there a way to understand the Renfroe effect better than just saying, hey Renfroe is better now than ever so must be 4/5?
I think much of the calls for an assessment of grade-spans have more to do with reviewing the strategy than with damning the system. It might even make folks stop talking about it!. Maybe a strategic review would create a cultural shift so that every new person who moves to town and says, “why do they do that, I wish it were k-5″ would hear a majority of the time “No, it’s the right thing, I’m glad CSD does it.”
I think you have made some very important points here. I was just coming back to ask how old the data is they are using for racial distribution and free lunch and what the source of said data might be.
Are you guys aware of this website?
https://www.crimereports.com
Crime Data provided by: Decatur Police Department
Type in your zip code or address “Enter Address Here”
Zoom In/Out or Move around the map as desired
Under Advance Search you can change the date range and type of crimes
Incident data is available for the past six months.
You may choose to display up to 30 consecutive days’ worth of data within those six months.
They also have an app for your smartphone
Enjoy!
Our kids were the first to experience the 4/5 Academy and feel it offered a was more well-rounded experience.
Anyone who commutes near Emory — have you noticed traffic has been especially ridiculous this week? North Decatur Road has been a parking lot between Clifton and Clairmont as early as 3:30 and as late as 7:00 this week during my PM commute. It’s usually pretty bad during peak rush hour but this is nuts. Maybe an issue with traffic signal timing? I seem to recall something like that happening a few years ago.
Yes, it’s been awful. I’ve had to take some creative routes home. I think I’ve done an illegal u-turn each afternoon this week.
I agree, it’s been awful. North Druid Hills Road has also been worse than usual in the mornings for the last couple of weeks – even considering the ongoing construction work at N. Druid and Briarcliff.
The NDH backups are mainly a result of the road work. There were two different morning commute accidents at the NDH/Briarcliff intersection this week because of the damned shifting lanes and left/right turn onlys that sneak up on everyone. When the hell are we going to get that Buckhead to Decatur tunnel???
Quick note if you are heading west on Hill towards Oakview in the morning (during school drop off/morning commute) and plan on taking a left on Oakview please slide a bit to the left of the right lane so us taking a right on Oakview can get around you and proceed on with our day….thank you – that’s all.
That intersection is a mess in the morning. Every time I drive through I wish there was a roundabout there.
Wouldn’t sliding to the left make it more difficult for the bus to make its right turn onto hill? One person’s convenience is too often another’s inconvenience.
Please don’t do this sliding left thing. This is a four way stop. The crossing guards will beat you. Deborah will ticket you. It is dangerous and illegal
Good Morning- We have loaded Draft Map Options 5-7 on the CSD website on the K-3 Zoning page at http://csdecatur.net/Zoning/.
Map 7 will be posted soon. Sorry for the delay.
Yeah, that is actually not safe or legal. Pleased don’t
Looking for recommendations for a clinic/Dr.’s office for administration of routine allergy serum ON SATURDAY OR SUNDAY. We’ve been going to CorrectMed since Dr.s Doyle and Goo started it up, but in the time since they left, the competence and professionalism at CorrectMed has declined so much that I no longer have faith that they’re administering the correct dose on the correct schedule. Nor do I want to continue to patronize a business so poorly run.
FYI – Dr. Doyle has a new practice in Oakhurst! Oakhurst Pediatrics.
New maps are up on CSD zoning site.
Thanks DawgFan. Waiting for those things to load carries the intensity of walking down the stairs on Christmas morning, without any of the excitement…
Wait… where is the “Map 7″ that’s listed?
Copy the link for map 6 into the url bar (not sure what it’s actually called) at the top of your browser and replace 6 with 7. Looks like they just don’t have the link working yet.
Ah! Thank you!
There was a problem with the link to map 7. We are trying to fix the problem and it will be posted soon.
Thanks! In the meantime, the approach suggested by Robert above appears to get you to Map 7.
Huh…And all three of these have us back in Clairemont. I will say, at first glance from a neighborhood contiguity standpoint, these seem to be much more agreeable options. And the diversity stats and other stats at the bottom seem okay too, although it does seem to put a lot more students back at WP and Oakhurst and leave most of the expansion room in the three north-of-tracks schools. I’m guessing this anticipates College Heights eventually being turned back into a sixth K-3 down the road (but then where does 0-3/pre-K go?).
So is there anything juicy to report in the Arnold/Jones school board race? I have heard so little about it and the election is on Tuesday!
I would like to take a poll and see who all would be in favor of closing down streets that hundreds of trickortreaters are trying to walk on. Considering the death last night if a 5 year hit by a car.. My 3 year old last night on adair street did more car watching than anything else. 215 kids came to our house on adair. Safety first in my mind
Watching the pageant in Oakhurst last night (around 3rd/Oakview), I had a similar thought. What if the City distributed some kind of Halloween Resident Vehicle Permit the week before, and then made the trick or treat hotbed streets off-limits to cars without permits just for that night? People from other places would be perfectly welcome to come but would have to park on the edge and walk in w/ their kids. Safer for everyone. Might not be really feasible, but worth looking into?
Someone (maybe police?) seemed to be directing folk to park their cars and walk with their kids and not drive behind them this year in my neighborhood. According to my spouse, the amount of car traffic was greatly reduced. Maybe next year this could be a city wide effort for all neighborhoods?
I realize I am late to this, but I did notice a lot less car traffic (but even more kids!) on Mead this year.
Where were the police doing this? Did they direct folks to park in the Thankful Baptist Church?
If so, I’d like to buy them a drink at Thinking Man (or the Imperial if that ever opens!!)
I would vote no in a second.
Trying to get home from work last night was a nightmare. Kids were running in and out of the streets without much care for the fact that people like me were trying to drive 10 mph through my own neighborhood just to get to my house.
What made it worse was that some adults were just standing around . One father even watched his daughter run in front of my car at a stop sign (as I was getting ready to move forward after sitting for 5 seconds). He himself then ran in front of my car and goofily waved, bounding after his daughter to the next house.
The safety of the kids starts with the adults. That incident – isolated as it might be – made me wonder how many parents sat their kids down and said, “I know you’re excited, but please remember to look both ways before you cross the street. Your friends will be running around. Don’t get caught up in the excitement and forget that there may be cars around. Please look both ways.”
creating a false sense of security doesn’t do anyone any good. the close calls i saw last night involved people backing out of their driveways… street closure and permits wouldn’t prevent that.
I live on Adair, and the people who walk in the street as though it were a sidewalk frighten me. On the other hand, how do I get home if you close my street? One year, I was driving home from work and going sllloooowww, and asked an adult woman walking in the middle of the street (drink in hand) to please use the sidewalk. She blew me off. Am I the only one who thinks parents drinking during trick-or-treating might possibly not be the safest thing?
I try not to be an absolutist on this issue but I do think we have to be careful about what we model in front of our preteens and teens. Responsible drinking by an adult over age 21 on a porch sends one message. Tipsy adults in the street or behind the wheel sends another. Plus is dangerous. And illegal behind the wheel. Not to mention the fact that we need to monitor underage access to alcohol. Studies show that the most common place for middle and high school binge drinking is a friend’s home.
Meandering down the middle of the street with a drink in hand is against several state laws for obvious reasons.
damnitalltohell!
If, by obvious, you mean ridiculous, then I’m with you.
Adair is a circus every year and sometimes you cant even walk on the sidewalk. Kids everywhere and they aren’t mine either. I walk in street when it gets too chaotic and will do it again next year. I figure there is a greater chance a car sees me than a child. I’ll take that chance.
Yes.
Regarding the walking in the street – we were commenting on the need for a “parents with cameras” lane on Halloween night at our house. Sorry about the traffic jam on Adair everyone. I’ve been wondering whether I should contact the city next year for advice on how to make things move more smoothly and safely. Especially since Halloween will be on a Friday night.
215?! We had maybe 12 kids hit us up on Fairview, and would have loved more. Send some of those tykes up here next year!
We’ve had the problem of parents driving down our dead end narrow street and getting stuck because of all the traffic. So we’ve been getting a city permit with barricades to close our street to cars. Has made a world of a difference. And we had about 200 kids come through on halloween.
You people need to get jobs…….You are talking about school buildings. Call it K-6, Call it K-3 Call it 4/5 Academy, call it whatever you want its not about the building your kid goes to its about the education the kid gets. Bottom line is they go to school from K-12…. who gives a ratz azzzzz about what you call it. and what building its in?????? Kids adapt, its the parents that get their panties in a bunch. Oh no my kid has to go to FAVE for 4/5 grade, I wont be able to walk around town with my Starbucks coffee in my hand ill have to drive the kid all of 3 miles to school, its tragic!!!! Get over it and worry about the types of teachers your kid has and not where the school building is located and what its called….
Hey, everyone! Check out the troll that came from Mordor!
Not a Troll, just speak the truth…..and definitely not one of the bedwetting liberal mammas boy, left wing wing nutzzz that patrol this city every morning and evening looking to argue and be confrontational over every issue that pops up.
i also love how the bed wetters call someone a “Troll” when they don’t agree with what they say. Typical liberal fashion…I don’t have an intelligent argument so I will call names. Classic bed wetter liberal move and whats destroying our country btw…..
I think you mistyped and meant to post on CNN.
Or the AJC. Have you ever read those comments? It could be an article about sweet potato pie and the commenters will proclaim it’s a socialist attack on the traditional American white potato.
Well aren’t you just adorable. C’mere, I wanna muss your hair.
Anyway, kidding aside, I think if you had seen some of my past posts, you would recognize I’m far from a liberal. And I haven’t wet my bed since that drunken night in college…
And I’m not objecting to your message. I happen to agree with you that parents are often more panic-stricken than their children (see the portable/trailer/learning cottage debate). It’s just that your message is lost in your classic troll-type post.
Starbucks is so old-Decatur. Java Monkey, Kavarna, or Dancing Goats is what the cutting edge parents drink. (sarcasm font)
Personally, I grow my own coffee beans (in the shade, under water oaks with over 12 inch diameter trunks) and roast them, grind them and brew them using solar energy.
Starbucks was NEVER Decatur.
nevar!
Actually, Starbucks started out EXACTLY like what people who say Starbucks was NEVER Decatur would have though was perfect for Decatur. Their problem was they became too successful, and that is something the people who say Starbucks was NEVER (or nevar) Decatur just won’t tolerate.
It’s a bit ironic that I’m typing a Starbucks defense while drinking my Kavarna.
You know what’s going to be more ironic? Twenty years from now the people who move here ten years from now will be screaming “Eat and drink at the local mom-and-pop restaurants and bars, not at that monolithic Leon’s Kimball Brick chain!”
Right? One person’s dream is another’s nightmare.
Did you know that Dancing Goats is part of a company with something like 7 retail locations in three states? Plus they sell wholesale throughout the US? And I think they’re trying to expand the business even further. Gasp!
You know I was being sarcastic about Starbucks, right? I think it is an excellent company with a wonderful corporate conscious which has also made a me a little change through stock. I have no problems with it at all. In fact, I would bet its employees have better benefits and wages than those local joints we all worship…
I’ll bet you have — it’s had quite run this year. Congrats.
I am about to give you a heartattack. I bought Apple stock (a small purchase, my first, mind you) six months before the first iPod came out. Average price I paid is $26 a share and the small first lot was $12. I wish I had invested more!
Wow, savvy investment, there. But now the true test — do you still own it or did you cash out years ago? Very hard to sit on gains of that size. But that’s how the real money is made. There was a recent story about a couple in Brooklyn who lived fairly modestly until their deaths in the late 90’s, I believe. What no one knew is that they were worth hundreds of millions because they invested about $20,000 in one of Warren Buffet’s early partnerships, which eventually became part of Berkshire Hathaway, and they never sold their shares. The $20,000 became worth nearly $1 billion in about 30 years.
I am sitting. I was soooo tempted a couple years ago but I love watching it :). I figure I can’t go wrong no matter how low it goes! Like I said, it was my first investment when I was pretty young and it wasn’t a lot of money, but it feels so good! I also love how smart and savvy it makes me look in my little portfolio!
I love that story about the couple. That is amazing!
my favorite part about these types of trolls is how they use “starbucks” as a shorthand for “liberal” when we actually walk around town with Dancing Goats or Kavarna or w/e. It’s lazy and unimaginative.
Are you Larry? Mille Helper? Gladys Kravitz?
A less racist Kramer, maybe
School Board Election:
I’m a conscientious voter, strong believer in good schools, but no kids in CSD. Judging by which houses have which sign in our neighborhood, I cannot detect the policy/platform difference between the candidates. Both seem ready to make finance decisions. I’m even listed on the literature of one of the candidates (came to a neighborhood event). How are people making this decision? Who’s friends with whom?
Not looking for 75 responses — perhaps just a platform difference.
Being a south-sider (third party), here is my take: Arnold is a banker and is highlighting his financial background, Jones is a lawyer and is highlighting his collaboration skills. Arnold served on the Renfroe SLT for a year, but left due to other committments. Jones served on the Renfroe SLT for two years and was chair for one of those years.
To me, this comes down to the choice between finances (Arnold) and greater community participation through the SLTs (Jones). Each voter needs to decide which is more important to them.
Thanks TinMan… Great sound bites— you could become a political pundit
I am supporting Jones, whose entire family is active in the school system (he has five children), and I do think he has a very strong financial background as well.
I don’t think it’s as simple as “finances” or “SLTs.” To be truly informed, talk to both candidates. Watch the video of the forum. Listen to the answers, and make your decision.
I have no idea what either of their platforms are. I also have no idea which one would be better for the job. I do know that they are both very foolish or very brave, or both, to still want the job after reading all the online comments about school redistricting.
Here are both candidates’ answers to the questions posed by the League of Women Voters:
http://c3.thevoterguide.org/v/ajc13/race-detail.do?id=12505000
Thanks Garrett. This is v helpful info for folks who’d like to know more about the candidates.
I like it better when we don’t debate individual candidates on this anonymous blog. There have been multiple Open Houses and a Candidate Forum, most of the candidates have websites, and all of them would probably respond easily to a phone call or email.
The main thing is to vote on Tuesday. City of Decatur elections can be quite close. A couple dozen votes can make a huge difference.
Maybe redistricting should be decided by voter turnout. Anyone who votes gets first dibs on what school they are districted to.
I am glad someone asked the question. Although there are many avenues to get information on the candidates, this blog is the one I go to for my “neighbor’s” perspective. I’m in the same arena as Bruce with no kids, and I think the responses to his inquiry so far have been extremely helpful.
I can see your point AHID; the last thing we need is for potential candidates to be scared away by the kind of destructive negative junk that gets thrown around in larger elections. That being said, we debate all sorts of things on this blog, and this is a big one that will actually have an effect on each of us.
Maybe we could agree to some “ground rules” just for this topic? 1. Post using your real name. 2. Stick to the issues. 3. Remember that these candidates are our neighbors who are looking to serve our community.
Or maybe it’s just not possible without becoming mayhem. Thoughts?
Re: the school board election. If you can’t vote on Tuesday today is the last day for advanced voting at Dekalb election office on Memorial near the jail. I am sure both candidates are good. I did notice the bike guy on Adair has an Arnold sign. Hmmm……
For me, the argument that FAVE is important to the quality of 4/5 education is a much stronger one than the argument that that the 4/5 school transformed Renfroe. The 4/5 Academy alone could not have transformed Renfroe–strong leadership, better discipline, and holding teachers to a high standard was necessary. Sounds like at least some 4/5 teachers like the collaboration and partnershps that the Academy offers and that counts for a lot. If the concept is sound, it should be maximized–there’s a lot of room for more collaboration and interaction, especially among the students. The investments in Expeditionary Learning and IB could go either way. Both can be offered for all levels, K-12. In fact, in IB, grades 4 and 5 belong with the IB Primary Years Programme which is defined as students aged 3 to 12 years. Or grades 4 and 5 could use Expeditionary Learning if that was the prefered curriculum for K-5. I’d be happy with either EL or IB as a K-5 curriculum–both are well-tested curriculae and require that participating schools use a set of sound educational principles and methods and live up to certain standards.
I am stunned that people still claim RMS is a great school because the kids “come together” as sweet 4th graders and not as surly 6th graders. My 6th grader is on a team this year with not a single one of her good friends. She hardly knew anyone in her classes during the first week and didn’t know who to sit with at lunch. Luckily she’s a nice kid and has made new friends, but I am not surprised that she didn’t have any good friends (or even semi-good friends!) on her “team” at RMS this year. I saw no evidence of any “mixing” going on at 4/5 except at a handful of large events. Even at Tybee her class stayed together and did not mingle with other classes. She’s our third child at RMS so I think it helps that her siblings have had good experiences there, and so far things seem to be good. But let’s not imagine for a moment that the kids are “mixing” or “coming together” at 4/5 and that somehow that is making RMS a magical school. RMS is magical because of unparalleled leadership.
+1 Exactly our experience. Our children only rarely changed classes at the 4/5 and did not mix much beyond the kids in their class at school. Luckily, our students met lots of kids from all over the city from sports at the Rec. Dept. (now called Active Living). At Renfroe, there were very few friends on the same team and new friends had to be made. Our younger one experienced even less mixing at the 4/5. As that school gets bigger and bigger there is less and less chance of students in the same grade mixing as there is only one room at the school that can hold a whole grade, much less both grades. Even the play ground isn’t big enough to hold both grades as it had to be shrunk by the new building and the rearrangement of the basketball court. The school has become a bottle neck, again. Just like it was at Glennwood. Look at the numbers posted by CSD itself. The school isn’t big enough even with the new building! They are planning on putting 8 classrooms of 4/5 in the new middle school to compensate! You may get your wish of a 4-8 school AHID .
No, no: I want K-8, not 4-8! 4-8 just makes the 9 year olds become preteens before they’ve finished the latency period! As a matter of fact, I have even a newer idea for preteens–homeschool them all, separate them totally from one another………with the special twist that everyone homeschools someone ELSE’s preteen.
I don’t understand why putting 4th & 5th graders on the same campus with 6th-8th graders is objectionable, but the idea of having kindergarten through 8th all in one school would be OK. Similarly, I also don’t understand the insistence on age segregation on the buses. Aren’t the older kids actually the older siblings of the younger kids and the younger kids’ friends? Are 2nd graders not allowed to go on play dates and sleepovers at the homes of friends with older siblings? If the older children are not being taught to behave reasonably toward younger children in all settings and environments, then the community has got a much bigger problem IMO.
+1000 and then some
I’m not worried about safety. I just like to delay unnecessary puberty. There’s something about middle/junior high school that makes preteen girls insist on wearing a bra, shaving their legs, and texting boys, whether or not they have the faintest need to. In the junior high school model, that starts in 7th grade, in the 6-8 middle school model it starts in 6th grade, in the 5-9 model that my nieces are in, it starts in 5th grade. If we had a 4-8 model, it would start in 4th grade. That’s how I see it. In a preK-8 model, there is no middle/junior high school to exert its magic pull on preadolescents or at least that’s what the Falls Village, CT folks claim. With the homeschooling other people’s preteens model, we could all make a pact to not to tell the preteens that other 9-12 year olds exist and maybe we could avoid preteen drama altogether.
BTW, I don’t think age segregation happens on CSD buses anymore. The middle and high school students all ride the bus together. It actually works well. The middle school kids think they are on the high school bus and feel cool. The high school kids wouldn’t dream of taking the bus so, even if they were an evil influence, they aren’t there to exert it.
“In a preK-8 model, there is no middle/junior high school to exert its magic pull on preadolescents or at least that’s what the Falls Village, CT folks claim.” — I call BS. The school I attended was 1-12 until I was in 4th grade, at which point they moved 8th-12th grades to the new building across the street and so we were a 1-7 school. In my 8th grade year, they moved 8th & 9th grades back to the old building and turned it into the Jr High (7th-9th); what had been the black school across town became the county-wide elementary (1st-6th). Anyhow, l distinctly recall the “coolest” girls in my class beginning to sport pierced ears and bras in 4th grade, and it was the summer before 5th grade that I cut myself to ribbons in my first unauthorized attempt at leg shaving. This was late ’60s/early ’70s in a small, rural town full of Baptists and Methodists who could hardly be distinguished from each other; long before cable TV existed and with a considerable proportion of county residential phones still on party lines. Still, the siren call of adolescence with all of its trappings was blasting away to the elementary school girls. That phenomenon is old news and not affected by how grades are combined in school. Little girls want to be big girls–always have and always will. (It stops for each one the minute she has two simultaneous realizations: that she’s flattered to be carded buying a bottle of wine at Kroger, and when her driver’s license photo was taken, the cashier wasn’t shaving HER legs yet.) It’s simply part of the waking nightmare that is parenting. I honestly don’t know where this idea comes from that you can avoid preteen drama. I mean, I understand and sympathize with the fantasy, but that’s what it is!
Keep writing. This is fabulous humor admist all the adult drama.
STG is actually Roy Blount, Jr’s sister.
I hope she didn’t have her cat declawed.
FM — Do what??
Roy Blount Jr. did a piece in Garden & Gun a few issues back about adopting a feral cat, which he had declawed. It drew a printed protest letter in the next issue, which he answered snarkily. He dropped a few notches in my estimation after that.
I’m still trying to figure out why shaving your legs makes you “cool”. It just means you’re hairy, now stubbly and covered with nicks. Truly a female preteen mystery. Clearly more research is needed…
Young girls want to do it because older girls do it. Grown-up girls do it because we are brainwashed into thinking it’s unattractive not to.
And thank God for it.
Maybe where I grew up was enchanted or I just had my head in a book and was ignoring the outside world, but I initially went to a K-8 school and the preadolescent girl drama/leg shaving/boy craziness didn’t start until 6th grade for the mature girls, 7th grade for the rest of us. Then I went to a new school in 8th grade, a junior high school sharing one building with a high school and apparently all the girl preteen/teen stuff had started in 7th grade. So I’m convinced that 6th/7th grade is the natural time for all the intense girl prettne/stuff to start. IMHO, 4th and 5th grade is early.
Apparently the WalMart is a go. http://www.medlockpark.org/2013/11/selig-enterprises-gets-go-ahead-to.html
something else to wad the panties….
do we know who will get rezoned from the avondale walmart to this one?
Me! To get to the Memorial Drive Walmart, we currently have to drive 3.5 miles through treacherous, kid-laden Decatur streets to the netherworld that is Unincorporated DeKalb (like, the bad kind of UD that’s south of the city and not the acceptable kind that’s north of us!). But soon we will be just a mile and a half, or about 45 seconds on the Scott Boulevard Raceway, to the shiny new store!
Hopefully slamming on the brakes to turn into Intown Hardware for all your tool, plant, grill, lawn furniture, and yard art needs before continuing on to buy cheap TP at Sam’s Kids store!
Don’t even get me started on the Intown Ace. I buy my City of Decatur trash bags there and nothing else. Last week I went to buy a long lighter there and they wanted $6 for the Bic that I could buy a 3-pack of for the same price at Sam’s. Today, I saved about $30 on $65 worth of Big Green Egg supplies by driving six miles down the road to the Egg headquarters in Tucker. I’m willing to pay a bit of a mark-up for the convenience of the local store but at some point, money is money.
yeah, but at Intown it would be easy to find someone to ask questions about that Bic lighter—good luck with that at Walmart!
p.s. Intown sells a really good hardwood charcoal (in a light brown bag) that’s cheaper than the BGE brand, is more dense, and burns a lot hotter.
Good point about finding someone to ask a question, and I did indeed take advantage of that opportunity. When I found the lighters, there was a nice ACE employee who asked if I had any questions. I said “yeah, is this price right? It says $6 for this lighter.” He said “Yup, that’s right.” I said “But these are the same exact ones that I can get a three pack of for the same price at Sam’s Club, right?” He said “Yup!” I said “I’ll just take the trash bags.”
I’ll check out the charcoal, though
Yes, all Ace prices are a ripoff compared to HD, Lowes, et . However, I go to Ace when I need an item or 3 NOW and I want to be sure they have it in stock. Or hard to find items like my toilet flapper.
I have had too many experiences going to the electrical or plumbing (or whatever) aisle at a big box needing 5 cheap items, and one of them is out of stock.
+100
While I find the language of the message to be inappropriate, I do think that it is pointless and counterproductive of parents to make these types of requests and/or to complain publicly. Of course, they have a right to do so, etc. etc.
FAVE is IB. The K-3 schools are EL. The money, time, and sweat that went into making it happen for all those schools is, I feel, worth it.
To change the models now would involve so much additional cost, time, and effort, and that alone is a powerful enough argument for leaving things as they are.
Add my vote with those who agree that the 4/5 model is good for students’ social development.
I am a parent of a CSD second grader and a fourth grader.
So, since it seems to be a stir-it-up kind of day . . . Can I ask why parents bring their little kids to the dog parks? It concerns me from a safety perspective because you’ve got large dogs running around and playing and little people whose faces are right at dog teeth level, and from a selfish perspective because I can no longer take my dog to the dog park. He’s shy and in his perfect world, no strangers would talk to him or make eye contact. Little people who can and do stare directly into his eyes freak him out. Then you add kids running around waving sticks and such and he’s a goner. The last time I took him, a toddler who looked to be about 3 started towards us and I took my guy out of the way. The mom assured me her child was used to being around dogs, but I told her my dog was not used to being around kids (well, not kids he doesn’t know; he’s awesome with those he claims as family).
Maybe what I’m really asking is: Why can’t the world conform to fit my needs?? Why? Why!?
kids are dogs too.
Now that right there is funny.
As the parent of a small child, and a dog, I hear you. My kids never step foot in the dog park. They sit on the bench outside where I can keep an eye on them. (Or run around and climb the fence, which leads to my yelling, but anyway…) I just don’t think it’s possible for anyone to predict what an otherwise good dog might do under the perfect storm of unpredictable circumstances.
I am with you.
There used to be complaints from parents about dogs being allowed off leash in City parks, because they felt (not unreasonably) it represented potential peril to young children. So now we have dog parks. The City should post prominent notice at the dog parks that letting children roam off leash inside the dog park is done at one’s own risk.
+1. I have seem a toddler nearly trampled at Adair (inside the dog park). And I blame the parent, not the dog.
Fortunately Adair has some fairly assertive dog owners who are perfectly willing to tell child owners that they need to either leash their aggressive children or at least make them sit still on a bench. Or they will yell like the adults in my old neighborhood when other people’s kids were misbehaving – “Hey, you! Kid! No running in the dog park!”
Especially annoying are people who bring a dog and kids and turn them all loose while they sit and play with a cell phone.
Did you move? Where have you taken your Halloween decorations??
I’m still here, Nelliebelle. You must have come by early in the month. We’ve been doing some remodeling this summer and it seems all the Halloween fans in the neighborhood were concerned that we were fixing up the house to sell. Nope, fixing up to settle into our retirement right here in Decatur. But the remodeling did get me off to a late start with the decorations this year. Going to start taking things down as soon as I finish my coffee, but I expect it will take a few days to get it all.
Good! We will have to make it by next year then!
“child owners”
Turns out we invented a single word for these people: “parents.” Shorter and far more accurate, as kids (unlike dogs) aren’t personal property.
DM Readers, please note that City Schools of Decatur has a professional learning day planned for Tuesday, November 5. The focus of the day will be on school safety, and in the afternoon, staff will be practicing drills in their schools. If you vote at Winnona Park or Renfroe Middle School, please be aware that you may hear drills being announced over the intercom. This information has been in our newsletters, Facebook page and eBlasts, but wanted to post it here too. Please follow this link if you would like to sign up to receive district and school eBlasts. Thank you! http://www.csdecatur.net/subscribe/
Lots of police headed SW toward ATL on Scott Blvd this morning. Four rounds of sirens between 7 am and 7:17 am. Anyone know what’s going on?
8:02 more sirens. So much for sleeping late on a Saturday.
And 8:10 more police sirens. Must be something big since they have been flying by for more than an hour.
Ponce is completely closed at E Lake. At least 10 patrol cars are there. I suspect it’s related
I saw that too. It has been that way since at least 8 and there are plainclothes cops out there too
I hear live outdoor music on Ponce Place by Big Tex.
i like chili
i like humans
i don’t like 10,000 humans packed into the world’s largest sardine tin eating chili
PROTIP: use the “Moses Strategy” to part the sea—follow a statuesque blonde or a mother with a stroller and an attitude. or both.
#chompandstomp
Saturday, November 23 will be more to your liking. Steinbeck’s Chili Cook Off.
Just don’t tell too many people.
Saw something cute today–four males (I assume Dads) pushing strollers down Coventry as they chatted. Couldn’t tell if they were friends with babies in common, mates pushed out by the babies’ Moms who wanted to socialize without rug rats, or both. As much as life has changed and we have plenty of stay-at-home Dads and high power career Moms as well as vice versa, it’s still more usual to see a group of Moms pushing strollers around Decatur and socializing than to see a group of Dads doing it.
Hey! it could have been two couples and their kids!
That too. Even cuter.
wow, uh…
Anyone got any recommendations for a chimney service? Our new home has a fireplace, but it apparently hasn’t seen use since the 80s or earlier.
My highest recommendation for Jim at Chimney Mischief
404-377-1254
http://www.chimneymischief.com
Inspected dual chimneys and added proper cap and dampers for the back-to-back coal fireplaces in our 90-y.o. bungalow. Then sourced and custom restored period cast iron coal inserts for us and installed the gas lines so that now they operate like real coal fireplaces (with simulated coal).
The Hearth and Patio Shop in downtown Tucker has also been a GREAT resource and helped us with our new fireplace installation, but for servicing an existing fireplace/chimney, I’d go with Chimney Mischief.
Late question — did YDFM stop selling Eden Farms bacon and replace it with its own bacon? I picked up a package of the YDFM bacon this weekend — meh. Eden Farms, on the other hand, delicious. While the YDFM bacon was in ample supply this weekend, there was no Eden Farms to be found.
This is a really serious matter.
There is no Eden Farms to be found anywhere because there is no more Eden Farms. It’s now called Berkwood farms. Seems to be the same product.
Now, don’t tell anyone else, especially the morons who sometimes make YDFM run out of the nitrate-free ham.
Ah, thanks much. Not to worry about the ham — most YDFM shoppers still proceed under the delusion that nothing is better than Boar’s Head.
YDFM smoked black pepper turkey is pretty much king of the lunchmeats in our household. Just tore through a pound of it in less than a week and still craving it.