Hartsfield Wants to Lower Flight Ceiling Around DeKalb-Peachtree
Decatur Metro | February 11, 2010 | 3:49 pmI wouldn’t want to deny anyone the opportunity to express their airline-noise rage.
According to DeKalb Commissioner Kathie Gannon’s February newsletter (via the Clairmont Heights Civic Association), Hartsfield-Jackson is looking to lower the flight ceiling around DeKalb-Peachtree Airport by 1,000 feet. This will obviously result in less airspace for planes coming into and leaving DeKalb-Peachtree as well as greater noise levels for folks on the ground in the area.
As to how much of an area will be affected, Kathie Gannon’s note states…
This would include decreasing the lower elevation of Class B airspace to 5,000 feet over PDK. This change would affect Dunwoody, Chamblee, Doraville and all surrounding neighborhoods.
I’m not sure if it will make things worse for folks closer to Decatur, but it certainly won’t improve on the airplane noise that gets folks so crazy in the warmer months.
Folks at DeKalb-Peachtree Airport and concerned residents in the surrounding neighborhoods are planning on attending a “public information / comment session [with the FAA] on March 1st at 3pm, 5pm, and 7pm at the Chamblee Civic Center located at 3540 Broad Street Chamblee, GA.”
This implies jets in climb power from Hartsfield will be 1000ft lower (closer to our ears) than they currently are.
I don’t like the sound of this at all.
No it doesn’t at all. Jets coming out of Hartsfield are initially instructed to climb to 10K. They aren’t going to change that.
I am frantic with the noise of jets landing. They fly over every 1 1/2 to 2 minutes. This is every
night and I have no peace and quiet. It disrupts my sleep and I am very cranky. I would move
but that is not an option. I read the notice from the family in Dunwoody North stating how they
were planning to move before the jet noise ceased. Well, it just relocated to my area. I can’t
remember how Dunwoody North got rid of the noise but we need to do the same. Needless to
say, I will be at the meeting.
I would imagine that this is mostly a “better safe than sorry” issue. Right now, planes coming in and out of KPDK are very close (vertically) to planes coming in and out of KATL. If I had to guess, I’d say that the altitude difference is a little too close for comfort in KATL’s eyes (not unsafe mind you, but they’re probably butting right up against the FAA’s minimum guidelines. Ridgelandistan probably need not worry, KATL has no interest in making planes fly any lower.
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, I just like planes. I’m sure someone in the business will come along shortly and make me look foolish.
No. they simply want to fly lower. It’s a cheaper fuel burn when you reduce the climb angle.
“FAA plans to lower the minimum heights at which Hartsfield-Jackson jets can fly over northeast Atlanta by 1,000 feet–or more in some areas (such as over PDK Airport). “
Wow, and what flight school taught you that? Mine certainly didn’t. Please don’t express facts on something that you apparently know little about.
Don’t have to be nasty about it.
Blogging is all about expressing oneself. I think everyone is entitled to take anonomous information on a blog for what it’s worth.
FYI:Got my SEL license in 88. Also went to ATC school in 90. but that’s really irrelevant.
I’m talking about takeoff and climbout, not level flight altitude. If you have to climb out at a steeper climb angle to avoid sensitive airspace you will burn fuel faster and takeoff mode has the highest burn rate.
Not trying to be nasty at all. You were the one posting about a conspiracy theory, illogical reasoning, and irresponsible information as fact. I simply refuted it. A thousand foot difference would mean a departing aircraft could enter that space about 30 seconds sooner than before IF they were using a shallower climb angle. A shallower climb angle is not always more fuel efficient, especially for high speed jet aircraft. Jets don’t like to fly slow because of parasitic drag. They want to get to altitude and cruise speed quickly. There are speed restrictions below 10,000 ft. The sooner they can get above that altitude, the better for the airlines.
“conspiracy theory, illogical reasoning, and irresponsible information as fact.”
Take a breath Swanny.
I directly quoted was in the linked article as it existed yesterday.
“FAA plans to lower the minimum heights at which Hartsfield-Jackson jets can fly over northeast Atlanta by 1,000 feet–or more in some areas (such as over PDK Airport). “
It’s not my fault someone has removed the passage since then. If your looking for a conspirator, go after them.
On the bright side, maybe they’ll drown out the barking dogs.
You must have meant the howling coyotes
I think planes at KATL should have to climb to 10,000 ft straight out of either runway with no turning to the north until they clear the 10,000 foot mark. Right now Decatur Dekalb is the only heavily populated area in Atlanta under this kind of full throttle flight path that is not directly in a straight line with the airport runways. This pattern was setup long ago before this area had as many folks as it does now.
I like planes too. I’m a former pilot. But the left turn eastbound out of Hartsfield is an anachronism.
Delta and other carriers are always looking to save money. In today’s economic climate the government is probably more receptive to helping them do so at the expense of environmental considerations. Every inch they can take we’ll never get back.
This is not true. It may appear this way since you happen to live in this area, but there are plenty of heavily populated areas affected. The areas affected have everything to do with wind direction affecting take off direction, and the destination of the departing aircraft. The south side is affected just as much as the north side. Until the FAA put RNAV procedures into effect in 2005, Hartsfield had one vector based departure procedures, which had flight paths more akin to what you are wanting. ATL5 is the current version of this procedure. It is the RNAV procedures that have had the impact on us, but it is also the RNAV procedures that allow safe flight operations of the world’s busiest airport.
It will have minimal impact on noise levels in my opinion. Nearly 100% of jets departing PDK, and FTY, for that matter are cleared to 3,000 feet after take off and held there to maneuver them clear of interfering with Hartsfield Depature routes. The lowering of the class B space isn’t going to change that either. You will still have the same jets making the same noise at the same altitude. Its why I was taught early in my flight training to climb to 2500 or 3500 feet when taking out of either airport when flying on VFR rules. You didn’t want to be anywhere near 3,000 feet.
Are there legit concerns from the local residents? Sure. Will this have some drastic affect on noise pollution and home values? I seriously doubt it.
So, if if noise pollution isn’t a problem then what are the “legit concerns” of residents?
(This is an actual question, not a snarky one.)
Safety concerns mostly, noise impact by general aviation aircraft, and more pollution by aircraft idling longer while getting take off clearance . PDK is actually against the change. This article best explains it:
http://www.reporternewspapers.net/Articles-c-2010-01-14-168359.113118-sub_PDK_official_calls_FAAs_airspace_plan_horrible.html
Hate to say it but aircraft have been turning NW over Atlanta while on climb out before 2005. It’s been happening at least since the 80′s when I had friends that lived on Midway and complained about it. I’ve personally had the problem since I moved to this part of Atlanta in 1998.
Since the prevailing winds here are from the west I’m sure it’s a problem for the folks west of the airport. But the population density is much less there. The left turn that most commercial aircraft take when climbing out eastbound take them right over the heart of the city a bit north of downtown. Many times when I’ve flown out of Hartsfield headed to Chicago or points west I’ve been able to see my neighbor hood and even my neighbors house on occasion when we flew that way. Can’t see mine too many tress.
Being a pretty good judge of altitude I’d say we where at no more than 3000 feet.
Jets like to fly high it’s true but fuel burn is important. Sometimes you need to get rid of a little JP before you can jump up to FL40.
I just feel one noise corridor is better for the community then five or six.
Hate to say it, but you are spreading false information like Ridge.
Don’t disagree with you David that they have been making those turns prior to 2005. ATL5 is a vector departure which means they can’t make turns until the ATC gives the turn direction.. If they are in East Ops, and you have a west bound aircraft, then ATC would have to turn them north and west at some point. The RNAV procedures are a series of absolute points that an aircraft must fly through without ATC instruction, thus you always see aircraft over our heads in the same spots at about the same altitude now.
You were well above 3k. I know that for fact. If you “were no more” than 3k then you would be violating the bottom of Class B airspace which would result in your pilot getting his licensed revoked and perhaps crashing into me while taking friends to see Decatur from above. If you don’t believe me just go check the sectional charts.
If you and Ridge want to complain about the change, that is fine. KPDK is actually opposed to it. Heck, I may actually be apposed to it. Your issue is with the FAA and how they want to control the airspace. It is NOT with the evil airlines. It amazes me how much people get worked up about an issue they obviously know nothing about.
Geez Swanny, you sure are passionate about this issue.
I’m not going to argue with the technicalities of your points, since I know jack-squat about this issue, but I will take issue with your assumption that Ridge and David are “spreading false information”. Phrasing it that way implies they are making false statements intentionally, something neither of us can prove or disprove, but it sure doesn’t sound like that to me. You seem to know a lot about this issue, so I don’t know why you keep falling back on making accusations.
And it really shouldn’t be all that amazing that people get worked up about issues they know little about. It happens all the time. Things intrude in our lives everyday that we haven’t spent decades researching, and we’re forced to learn about quickly and make assumptions and generalizations along the way.
If anyone here is guilty of spreading misinformation here it’s me. And we all thrive on correction. That’s how this site works. I don’t have the final say like a newspaper reporter, which is great because errors are quickly exposed and corrected. And as a result, everyone wins.
Like I said. Straight out to 10,000 then turn em which ever way you want. No turns period till 10,000 feet. It would stop the noise problems except in that corridor. What’s so difficult about that?
I live in Dunwoody North and am sick and tired of hearing airplanes every 30 minutes. We moved into our house 3 years ago and up until about 6 months ago we NEVER used to hear planes now that’s all we hear.
We hear planes from 6am to 2am every single day. It gets real old!