Decatur Police Cite “Extenuating Circumstances”, Find No Evidence of Racial Profiling After Investigation
Decatur Metro | February 11, 2014Decatur Police have distributed the findings of its investigation into the racial profiling allegations made by a Decatur resident back in December.
Investigating Officer Capt. W.S. Richards wrote in summary, “The stop was not based on the color of Mr. Denard’s skin, but instead on his behavior and what Inv. Hall discovered at the residence.”
According to the file, after watching Mr. Denard leave the residence from the rear/side of the residence where no vehicles were visible, Special Investigator Hall found unopened mail on the residence’s front porch – suggesting to her that the homeowners may be out of town. The file states that after knocking on the front door and receiving no reply, she went around the back of the residence and noticed an ajar rear door. These elements combined with Inv. Hall observing Mr. Denard adjusting his coat and looking around him when he left the residence are Decatur PD’s stated reasons for the stop.
You can read the full complaint investigative file HERE. Decaturish also has a good, more extensive summary of the report’s findings.
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Yeah, the only problem I see with the investigation is, they didn’t focus on the actual point at which racial profiling may have occurred. It wasn’t necessarily when Mr. Denard was stopped. Racial profiling may have occurred when the officer saw him leaving the side of his house & then she decided to check out his house. I understand that the officer saw unopened mail lying about, which led her to believe the owner was perhaps out of town. Her subsequent decision to track down the person she saw leaving may have been reasonable enough, albeit wrong. But what was it about Mr. Denard that was so suspicious that it would lead her to go check out the house in the first place? Being seen departing from the side of the house? Plenty of folks use their side & rear entrances regularly. Mudrooms w/coats & keys etc are usually in the rear of homes. Would his non-black neighbors have been presumed to live there if they were seen departing in the same manner?
I think there are two issues. First, was the there any profiling in the decision to go up to Mr. Denard’s home and look around? Here, the investigator’s explanations look pretty weak. All she really had was a guy who walked from the side of his home and bypassed his mailbox, which supplies no reasonable ground for suspicion. She then adds in the report that Mr. Denard looked “all around him” and adjusted his jacket a few times, trying to imply that he was acting suspiciously. I frankly doubt those sort of vague and unverifiable assertions — they bespeak CYA if you ask me — but there’s no way to disprove them.
The second question is, did what she find at the house justify stopping Mr. Denard? That’s pretty borderline, to my mind, but the back door being open is probably enough to justify it, if only barely. And the stop is far more of a concern than the investigator nosing around Mr. Denard’s home after knocking on the door.
That said, the report is hardly airtight. I was struck by the fact that it is in conflict as to whether Mr. Denard was detained. The officer who stopped him claims (absurdly, in my view) that he did not detain Mr. Denard, as if Denard should have felt free to just keep walking. Yet in other places the report says Mr. Denard was free to go only after satisfying the officers’ demands for information, and that detaining him was justified under 4th Amendment standards. Well, which is it?
There are some conflicts in the evidence, where the officers have different versions of events than does Mr. Denard. Not surprisingly, an entity investigating itself appears to have resolved those disputes in its favor.
“Not surprisingly, an entity investigating itself appears to have resolved those disputes in its favor.”
As they (other police depts ) do 99% of the time, and often with much more egregious circumstances involved than this case.
Did you read the report in its entirety? If so, what leads you to believe that this is some sort of cover up? Looks to me like a very thorough and detailed report, complete with audio of radio discussions.
Didn’t say it was, just stating that police departments very rarely blame themselves for anything.
I did read the entire report. And while it is thorough, in the sense of including multiple sources of information, it generally takes the DPD officers’ word for it. For example, what does it even mean that Mr. Denard exited his property while looking all around and adjusting his jacket? Why was that suspicious? The report glosses over those issues. In that respect it is highly deferential to the investigating officer and not at all deferential to the innocent citizen who was mistakenly suspected of burglarizing his own home.
So too as to the competing versions of events after Mr. Denard was detained — er, casually questioned by multiple officers. Mr. Denard claims that an officer claimed (to the effect) that racial profiling wasn’t all that bad. The officer denies it. Who is right? I have no idea. But the report doesn’t try to get to the bottom of that. It implicitly accepts the officer’s account and rejects Mr. Denard’s. It might be correct. But it is certainly convenient.
I’m generally inclined to disbelieve charges of racism. But I am even more inclined to reject self-serving findings by police which (coincidentally, of course) completely exonerate the police. Again, what the police suspected here was ultimately proven to be 100% wrong and an innocent man was accosted and embarrassed in the process. This is hardly a shining example of excellent police work, regardless of the racial issues.
Mr. Denard is freakin’ 60 years old! When was the last time has there been any robberies with a freakin’ 60 year old man found leaving the scene of the crime. In a couple of years this could have been me. If this were a teenager or someone in there early 20’s maybe, just maybe. As an African American male who has lived in this area for 30+ years I can speak from a different perspective than has been given here. This gentleman could have been my uncle, older brother, a friend or a neighbor or myself.
But I’m going to repeat this again, the dude was 60+ years old. Hell, at that age, you are not as agile and it may take some difficulty to adjust your clothing.
‘I’ve mentioned this before on this thread that in the African American community we’ve always been aware of racial profiling by Decatur police, more it is especially prevalent among the female COD officers.
I would hope that a police officer seeing someone leaving my house when absent cars, an unsecured door, and scattered mail were observed would follow the person and ask a few questions. We have had too many burglaries during daytime hours when most residents are away.
If the same observations had been made regarding any person of any race, the investigator’s suspicions would have been the same. They are trained to observe certain behavior and particulars.
Agree. It’s not always about race. DPD would have done the same thing whether the suspicious person was white, black, purple, orange.
“If the same observations had been made regarding any person of any race, the investigator’s suspicions would have been the same.”
How do you know that?
How do you not know that?
Didn’t claim to, nor did I make a naive, blanket statement about someone’s hypothetical actions.
I get it.
Because I know how police officers are trained and think. I am not one myself.
Well, I guess that settles it. DPD couldn’t have engaged in any racial profiling. After all, @steve & @bulldog just said so, and quite matter-of-factly at that!
Seriously tho @Ronda: the police must see countless instances of people leaving their houses every day. They aren’t checking up on everyone. And, you must have missed the part about the officer discovering the unsecured door & mail AFTER already determining that Mr. Denard’s actions while leaving his house were suspicious enough to warrant inspecting the house. My question was and is: what was so suspicious about him/his actions in the first place?
Thanks for clarifying things DEM.
I believe what you meant to say was, “Thanks for clarifying things in a way that matches my interpretation, DEM.”
I’m open to other interpretations. Just not blanket denials that racial profiling can happen here.
Nobody is making a blanket denial of anything.
If an officer asked me to produce a driver’s license or other form of identification to validate my identity after seeing me leave my house under the same circumstances, I would. No questions asked. And then I’d thank the officer for paying attention, especially during the holiday season and especially given the number of crimes in and around Decatur the last few months.
Good for you, but totally irrelevant to the issue of the law and/or racial profiling.
I’m not exactly sure how my comment is irrelevant. I just don’t believe that everything has to do with the color of someone’s skin.
I love it when white, upper middle class men make pronouncements for people whose lives and circumstances to which he could never relate.
But I am not profiling or making assumptions based on the way you appear or anything…
Nobody is making pronouncements about anybody’s life or circumstances. But I would appreciate it if you kept your wrong assumptions to yourself. I have no idea what your race or financial situation is, just like you really don’t know mine.
It’s irrelevant because whether or not you would object to being asked to produce ID has nothing to do with racial profiling or whether or not it happened in this case.
Nor does the official report that concludes that it did not, apparently.
No, not saying that. But DEM offered some points of contention ABOUT THE REPORT while others made baseless, unsuppported claims about what officers would do in any situation or offered hypothetical examples of their own personal behavior that have nothing to do with the issue.
Was she looking out for crime, or looking to see who was in the neighborhood, who didn’t look like they matched what her image of a homeowner looks like? She saw him, and her imagination of what he had done took on a life of its own. People look around, people leave mail about unfortunately. But to be immediately concerned enough to check doors, oh there’s mail here… call a gaggle of cops to stop him? I’m a white female and I doubt what happened to him would have ever have happened to me no matter how disheveled I looked, mail on the porch, door ajar, or not. I’m sure the city admitting wrongdoing would open them up to other complaints, and have financial implications, so their finding are not exactly a shock.
I hope he has learned a valuable lesson. Shut up, know your place, bend over and take it from anyone in a badge, and make sure you give them your papers right away or they will detain, er… question you for as long as they please for having the audacity to explain you know your rights. And if he really wants to be sure this will never happen again, when he leaves the house from now on he needs to make sure he’s casually sipping a venti latte (shirt already tucked in because apparently there’s a strict new dress-code), push a double-stroller, and casually chat on a $600 phone oblivious to everything but yourself, because this is what a real homeowner looks like.
There was ZERO confirmed evidence of racial profiling, despite what you think or what others want to think. Not EVERYTHING Is about race. Let’s not make it that way, folks.
+1
No one is saying “everything” is about race. The issue is solely whether this particular incident was about race, in whole or in part.
Well, as Dem pointed out, maybe it was just crappy police work.
There was ZERO confirmed evidence that this man did anything other than walk out of his own door of the home that he owned, yet he was stopped by multiple officers and harassed anyhow. It’s fine to argue that race is over played, but it’s just ridiculous to suggest that she would have stopped Susie or Sally for arranging their clothing after walking out the door, or whatever it was that he was doing that screamed in her mind “I just robbed this joint.”
He handled this situation like a gentleman and his words at the meeting touched me, he was speaking from his heart. He could have been a d!ck, I would have been a HUGE d!ck for being asked to produce ID while simply walking through my own neighborhood, but he’s obviously got too much class for that. I’m sure he was hurt, offended, angry and he’s got every reason to be, to completely dismiss his experience is arrogant and disgraceful.
@daydreamer well said. I keep going to the fact that this gentleman is 60 years old. I can imagine what he’s experienced when he was in his 20’s, 40 years ago, and to be questioned coming out of his own home in 2014. susie and Sally would have thrown a fit, but probably not have been stopped in the first place.
“I’m a white female and I doubt what happened to him would have ever have happened to me no matter how disheveled I looked, mail on the porch, door ajar, or not. ”
I disagree. If the circumstances, your actions and demeanor had been similar, you would have been treated the same.
I double disagree. She would not have been.
What “demeanor” exactly? I am still not clear on the glaring red flag that alerted her to a home invasion, that led her to further approach his home and start looking for the evidence of her suspicion? Looking around while leaving your house? Yes, I have done this, probably thousands of times throughout my life easily. Haven’t you? Oh, well how many times were you asked to produce ID after doing so? I’m zero on that but what about you? Let’s compare notes with him.
SQUIRREL!
As a lawyer who deals everyday with these civil rights issues, this is what happened here: yes, Mr. Denard was racially profiled. There can be no doubt in any reasonable person’s mind. If this had been a white man walking down S. Candler, no one would have raised suspicions, and he would not have been questioned by police.
But, what the City’s investigation (“investigation”) is looking for is whether there was any deliberate, intentional racial discrimination. i.e., was the questioning of this man derived from some racial hatred, or conduct that could be disciplined? And the answer is probably, no. It was racial bias. But it was innocent of ill will toward the man.
This is the quandary in civil rights law. When racial bias is subconscious and non-malicious, there is very little remedy. You don’t want to punish the white person who acted on subconscious bias, with no malice in his heart. Yet, there is a need to recognize the bias and the unfairness of it to the black person who is bothered unnecessarily.
There is no simple solution to this problem. The law struggles with it daily.
Yes, there can be doubt. Profiling is an intentional act, and using your reasoning, no profiling occurred if this incident resulted from the officer’s subconscious bias.
No, my point is that racial profiling is often an unintentional act. We act on our subconscious biases and fears, not because we have ill will towards the person of another race.
But, in my view, this investigation was focused on whether there was any intentional discrimination. I think it can be true both that there was not intentional discrimination, but that this man was bothered unnecessarily because of his race. The frustration arises because it is very difficult to address nonintentional discrimination. The officer involved probably does not deserve to be punished, because there was no misconduct or ill will involved. But, we are probably not being honest with ourselves if we pretend that this man would have been stopped and questioned if he had been a white man or a white woman. I just know in my gut that he would not have been.
I understand your point of view and appreciate your perspective. However, how can you say there is no doubt that he was racially profiled? He may have been profiled based on his actions and the fact that those behaviors matched other recent burglaries in the Winnona Park and surrounding neighborhoods, but I hardly think he was racially profiled.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions on an officer’s subconscious (which I don’t think any of us have any way of knowing about). Nevermind the fact that the report details – very thoroughly – the incident itself and the circumstances that led to Mr. Denard being questioned in the first place.
Race simply does not need to factor into the equation.
How would you read the report if Mr. Denard’s name and race were omitted?
You’re right that I don’t know this officer so, in a sense, its unfair for me to say what his or her subconscious biases are. I will be honest and say that I am basing my assumptions about the officer’s biases on my own subconscious biases. I consider myself a pretty enlightened person, and I work everyday representing people who have been subject to discrimination, BUT I will acknowledge that I personally harbor these biases. If I see a couple of young white men approaching me on South Candler, I probably wouldn’t think twice about it. If I saw a couple of young black men approaching me on South Candler, it would probably make me a little nervous. I think most middle and upper-class white people living in Decatur would tell you the same, if they are being honest. The “why” is the really complicated question: its a mix of historical prejudices and rational fear derived from the fact that most of the property crimes that have been committed in Decatur in the past year have been committed by young black men.
See what I mean when I say its a difficult issue?
My gut feeling that there was profiling here is derived not from my knowledge of this officer, but from my knowledge of my own subconscious, somewhat shameful biases. It is something I struggle with often.
There have also been a number of scientifically rigorous studies showing persistent trends of racial profiling in law enforcement. And again, using the definition of profiling that does not indicate conscious malicious bias, but instead the complicated, subconscious bias I am referring to. e.g., https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/213004.pdf
(James, I’m glad you came back to expand on your thoughts. My reply to your initial comment idled while I was pulled elsewhere, but since your follow-ups haven’t really addressed it, I’m going to go ahead and post it.)
But James, there’s a key part you’ve skipped past in your assessment (or “lawyering”): Mr. Denard didn’t get stopped for merely walking down the sidewalk. He was stopped because he matched the description of the person Investigator Hall had put a call out on based on what she saw as potentially suspicious activity that could fit with what she was out there undercover to stop: a rash of daytime burglaries occurring on his block where the burglar(s) had entered from the hidden side of the house. From all accounts, Mr. Denard wasn’t asked for his i.d. until he asked what the reason was for stopping him. Were you or I stopped, Officer Brown would have also requested i.d. before giving specifics. (Along with observed actions that Investigator Hall felt merited a stop, the house had an unlocked door and no one appeared to be home– not the kind of info an officer could freely give out.) Also, from all accounts, it seems the majority of the One MINUTE And FOUR SECOND LONG stop was spent responding to what Mr. Denard was saying, not asking questions. Yes, it’s embarrassing to be seen by passersby when you’re the lone citizen engaged with police officers with their cars pulled up. However, it happens for just about every call that goes out– it’s officer safety protocol. (Whenever I’m in that setting due to having called in something in my neighborhood, I figure someone somewhere is smiling at it as being payback for all the stuff I got away with in my youth.)
James, the point I’m trying to make is that it doesn’t do anyone any favors to not weigh all of the involved folks’ perspectives– and in this case, it does the greatest disservice to Mr. Denard. My hope for him is that he’ll get to a place where he’s receptive to considering that maybe the investigator’s and officers’ accounts do need to be factored in. At the very least, I hope Mr. Denard’s open to accepting Chief Booker’s request to meet to discuss it before he cements his conclusion on what transpired– not because I worry about any community stirring, but because I don’t want this to become a permanent emotional scar for him.
I hear you, and agree that if you take the police report at face value, it all seems very reasonable and objective. And I’m not here to make accusations of intentional bias, like I say. I’m speaking almost entirely from gut here, and from pretty solid statistical evidence that black folks tend to get stopped and questioned at significantly greater frequency than white folks do.
Keep in mind that all the “objective evidence” emerged once the officer made the initial decision that “hey, there is something concerning about that guy walking away from that house there, let me go up and check it out.” And then the officer finds the door ajar, the unopened mail on the front porch, etc., which led to a BOLO for Mr. Denard. The objective circumstances to justify the BOLO arose after an initial decision was made that something looked “concerning” or “suspicious,” and that’s where the potential for subconscious bias comes in. If it had been a middle-aged white guy walking away from the home, would the officer have pulled into the drive to check things out? Solely because the guy didn’t stop to check his mail? Maybe so. I don’t know the answer to this question: but I suspect it is no. Again, nothing against this individual officer. As I said before, the biases I am citing are biases that I personally grapple with, and which I think most middle and upper class white folks do.
But what people seem to be forgetting is that there has been a high crime rate in the neighborhood and surrounding area over the last few months. If all these crimes had been committed by 15 year old white girls and an officer observed a white girl acting in the same manner as Mr. Denard, she would have been stopped as well. That’s why I don’t understand why this is about race. It seems to me you have to take into account patterns, trends, and behaviors before even considering race as a motivating factor.
“If all these crimes had been committed by 15 year old white girls and an officer observed a white girl acting in the same manner as Mr. Denard, she would have been stopped as well.”
Um, Bulldog, you said earlier that DPD would have acted in the same manner regardless of race and other factors.
Incidentally, Mr. Denard is around 60yo. Are you saying that all these crimes have been committed by 60yo black men lately?
And I’m saying it again. White/black/orange/purple they are trained to investigate the behavior not the person. Not all crimes are being committed by 60 yr old black men – that’s not what I said. I’m saying that you can’t – and we shouldn’t – immediately think that this was an incident of racial profiling. The report confirms that it wasn’t.
No, you aren’t saying the same thing. You put an “if” in there: IF 15yo white girls were committing crimes… You put an “and” in there too: AND the officer saw a white girl…
So lets just use your standards: IF 60yo black men were committing the crimes AND the officer saw a black man around that age…
We already know the officer saw Mr. Denard who is around that age, but as far as I know DPD has not said that the crimes were being committed by 60ish black men.
In other words, it appears that even you think that his being black was sufficient to find him suspicious.
No, I don’t think that. But we can agree on purple people eaters! The only other purple character I know is Barney.
P.S. I don’t know of any orange or purple people, only flying purple people eaters!
Orange people: Tanning Mom, all of the Kardashians, that girl band chick who was on Celebrity Apprentice…
Truthfully we have no idea who has been committing crimes. It is assumed that they are being done by young black men. That assumption is in itself racist. You may argue that some were caught. I have not heard that and would argue some not all would leave other robbers on the loose. Probably those 15 yr old white girls (Got to watch the not so obvious).
As a young black man that was reared in the Atlanta metro, I have been stopped for no reason several times. Once the officer, Dekalb County, slapped me when I asked why he was pulling me over and I hadn’t done anything. Another time the officer (APD) threatened to put a dime bag of weed in my pocket. After begging him not to and showing him my ID he let me go with a warning.
Generally, speaking most officers are not officer freindly. They cannot be trusted and if one is smart they will only call the police when you have no choice. Additionally, i am a criminal defense attorney and after years of practice the ruth of the matter is that police lie just as much as the defendants. I believe that the gentleman was racially profiled and the officer should be discplined. However, this will not come to pass, as evidenced by the acceptance of the CYA report.
James, it’s a worthwhile conversation to have. Lest there be any question of how I process things as a white person (right now I don’t make the middle or upper class cut, but I hope I can still weigh in), I always try to factor in every conceivable thing from every possible angle and I’m ultra sensitive to anything that could be perceived– rightly or not– as a slight based on someone’s race. As much as I respect the DPD, if I felt something had gone awry here, I’d say it. I’m not one for letting things go, however uncomfortable to tackle.
To your question: “If it had been a middle-aged white guy walking away from the home, would the officer have pulled into the drive to check things out?”– Since Investigator Hall saw as potentially suspicious the exiting from the side of the house, the two jacket/waistband adjustments, and the dark clothing and gloves, yes, to me it follows that a middle aged white man doing/wearing the same would’ve also caught her attention and led to further checking. That Mr. Denard is a black man and the suspects in almost all of the other recent burglaries were black males would certainly have been present in Investigator Hall’s mind, but it’s not the only thing that she based her assessment on. I do not know Investigator Hall, but what she’s outlined matches with what us citizens are told to look for when assessing if something warrants a call to DPD. I do know Captain Richards, Deputy Chief Lee, and Chief Booker, and I have immense respect for how all of them approach their jobs. As caring as they all are, they’re as by the book professional as it gets. Had they seen cause to think that Mr. Denard’s skin color was the main basis for Investigator Hall’s suspicions, they’d take the resulting lump and set out to address it. Don’t let the given that Mr. Denard is a black man be the only filter you’re running all this through. Another given is that DPD has a duty to do their best to thwart crime and protect property– including Mr. Denard’s. What if another black man wearing dark clothing and gloves and had been spotted exiting Mr. Denard’s property from the back, stopping to look around while adjusting his jacket and waistband– would Mr. Denard have wanted Investigator Hall to investigate things further?
How does adjusting your clothing indicate burglary? I don’t remember any lookouts from the previous burglaries, for senior men casually leaving homes (not even running) tucking in their shirts, unless I missed that somewhere. Also, she’s didn’t say what he was looking at. Was it at a tree, at the sky, did he lift his neighbors window and then look through? Looking around at what specifically?
“What if another black man wearing dark clothing and gloves and had been spotted exiting Mr. Denard’s property from the back, stopping to look around while adjusting his jacket and waistband– would Mr. Denard have wanted Investigator Hall to investigate things further?”
Considering he probably has a brother, son, cousin, or a friend who may look or dress like him (aka scary I must have just burgled a house appearance), I doubt that he’d be thrilled to have the police following them down the street and then trying to coerce them into the back of a police car either.
You interestingly compared your experience calling the police on people, to him being pursued as a criminal. Do you really find the embarrassment or humiliation in these 2 drastically different situations to be equal in any sense? I’m not sure right now he’s having a great laugh and thinking “wow, that karma from my teens ha ha ha.” That’s just incredibly far out there.
To be clear, I did not compare my experience to Mr Denard’s of being stopped. I relayed how embarrassing it feels to have folks gawking at you when you’re the only citizen in the midst of officers and police cars. Unlike the way you seem to evaluate situations, I factor in a lot of things, rather than just look for a black/white, right/wrong, only one way could possible be true summing up. Not that it’s any of your business, but among other things, I’m also able to draw on having taken a neighbor’s troubling encounter that seemed to possibly be a racial profiling incident to Deputy Chief Lee. Deputy Chief Lee’s handling of it not only greatly eased the young man’s mind, but led him to wanting to pursue a career with the DPD. (He didn’t end up doing it as the lure of the Miami party scene was stronger and he moved.) Also unlike you, I always try to look at how our community can end up better off when something happens to shake us up. Because we’re apparently so different, there’s really no point going into it, so I’m going to leave it at that.
Daydreamer, please don’t attempt to engage me again. Whatever’s led to your drastic and self admitted nasty personality change is your problem to deal with, not mine. You can maintain a healthy skepticism without feeling a need to annihilate everything or everyone that you disagree with. Where I once had tremendous fondness and respect for your old self, I no longer do. It’d be a waste of time for us to attempt to discuss anything when we hold so little respect for one another.
“I always try to look at how our community can end up better off when something happens to shake us up”
The only thing that has been shaken up by this incident is Mr. Denard, based on the outcome of this report. The investigator stated she wouldn’t do anything different, officers said he should have felt free to go, but told him he couldn’t go “until” he produced ID. He says he was asked multiple times for ID, they say once. Yet, even with the discrepancies, potentially including an officer suggesting racial profiling may not be all that bad (his word against theirs throughout the whole report), they find Mr. Denard’s concerns are unfounded, case closed. Shaken up? Hardly.
To a lay person, this seems like a wise post. I also know that, when I’ve talked to African-American friends or colleagues about being in a post-racial era, they’ve pretty much disagreed. No matter how many degrees they have or how financially secure they are, the impact of race is something they feel all the time.
It’s probably not obvious anymore but this reply originally mapped to James’ first post about the legal quandary around racial profiling. What I get out of all the posts since is that racial profiling is a real issue that is seen differently by different people and is not easily addressed. So we must keep struggling with it until we get to a better spot.
AHID, you are right and yes we must.
This just makes me sad. I am not satisfied with the DPD’s account of this incident, and I’m generally a fan of our local constabulary. My opinion won’t change anything, or anyone else’s mind that has been made up, but that’s not why I’m sounding off here. I just needed to say how I felt.
Thank you James for the thoughtful comment, this is a very difficult issue.
I agree.
Mr. Denard is freakin’ 60 years old! When was the last time has there been any robberies with a freakin’ 60 year old man found leaving the scene of the crime. In a couple of years this could have been me. If this were a teenager or someone in there early 20’s maybe, just maybe. As an African American male who has lived in this area for 30+ years I can speak from a different perspective than has been given here. This gentleman could have been my uncle, older brother, a friend or a neighbor or myself.
But I’m going to repeat this again, the dude was 60+ years old. Hell, at that age, you are not as agile and it may take some difficulty to adjust your clothing.
‘I’ve mentioned this before on this thread that in the African American community we’ve always been aware of racial profiling by Decatur police, more it is especially prevalent among the female COD officers.
no2decatur, we now know Mr. Denard is a 60 yr old male. Investigator Hall didn’t know it when she put out the call. She spotted him from a distance and he was wearing a ball cap. Based on what I saw as an audience member at the City Meeting where Mr. Denard spoke, he carries himself in a way that exudes vitality. For him, age is but a number.
@deane I’m sure you are quite confident in your assessment, however, a cop should be able to discriminate (pun intended) between a 60 year and a teenager, regardless of color. Google “Samuel l Jackson I’m not Laurence Fishburne” and see how even world famous African Americans are mistakenly identified. Samuel L F’ing Jackson, lol (if u know Samuel Jackson hopefully you’ll get the joke)
No2decatur, not being familiar with Mr. Denard’s property layout or how far away Investigator Hall was, I can’t hazard a guess as to what age she may have thought him to be. As for the Samuel L. Jackson interview (which I’d already seen and thoroughly enjoyed), I give him mad props for not letting up– it turned a fluff movie plug appearance into an opportunity to really make a point. (Gotta say that until just now when I looked up his and Laurence Fishburne’s ages, I didn’t know that there was such an age difference– I’d always thought that SLJ was in his early 50’s.)
@Deane.Thought I was through with this thread, but saw a picture today of Mr. Denard. Nice looking older guy, but there is no way in hell this man could be mistaken for a teen. Plus in the photo he wore a baseball cap. No disrespect to Mr. Denard, but if this officer thinks this man was even in his 30’s she needs eyeglasses. Perod, end of subject. Also, I discovered who the “Officer” is and she has a huge chip on her shoulder toward African Americans.
Unincorporated Dekalb, we probably both need to be done with this thread. For me, it’s proving difficult to adequately express myself on this in writing and there’s also no point when there’s not been much interest shown on here in having a conversation about it. I did want to acknowledge your comment, though. Looking through what all I’ve written, I mashed together two facts that have left you thinking that I think Investigator Hall thought Mr. Denard was a black teen. I don’t think that. That Mr. Denard is a black man is something any sighted person would immediately note, but I don’t know what age Investigator Hall would’ve ballparked him to be. Nor do I have any way of knowing how much (if at all) she might’ve weighed either factor as she was deciding on whether her observations of him emerging from the side of the house, adjusting his clothing, and not stopping at the mailbox merited further investigation. I’m not doubting that you’ve heard what you’ve heard, but I also can’t help but wonder, if it’s so, how does Investigator Hall come across when interacting with residents of other races? Another thing I wonder about is, if it’s so, have any of the African Americans who’ve had an unpleasant encounter with her ever sought to have it dealt with after it occurred? I don’t expect you to answer– just putting it put there because it seems like the answers would matter.
(BTW, we’ve met. I introduced myself and we sat together at the DeKalb Delegation’s Town Hall at Agnes Scott about a year ago.)
@Deane City of Atlanta and DeKalb County and Decatur have noted ALL breakins where there has been a citing of the preps or where they’ve been caught have been attributed to teens. All three police depts have surprisingly collaborated. Therefore, a good officer would have this information.
As you’ve pretty much all but given my address, I’ll say my n’hood has been affected, so I’ve kept close tabs on this. Apparently and thankfully, your hood hasn’t so it appears you aren’t aware of the facts, as I see that you had no prior knowledge and, like the officer, you couldn’t piece this bit of info together.
You provided the information about your neighborhood– it’s in your linked name. I apologize for making you upset. I enjoyed our conversation and meant only to jog your memory. [ DM, if you would, please snip the comment.]
I’m well aware of the other incidents. The investigation also makes clear that Investigator Hall was fully up to speed. What I don’t assume– and what I would hope that she wouldn’t either– is that daytime burglaries can only be committed by one age or race at a time.
While I fully recognize that as a white female I can’t possibly know how it feels to be racially profiled, it’s a shame that you don’t seem to be open to considering that I may have borne witness to racial profiling or have had family or close friends that have experienced it or have been in situations where it’s seemed that my white presence might have been influencing an outcome that might not have happened otherwise. Because I have. But even if I hadn’t, it seems to me it’d be worth you putting up with some exasperation caused by me and other well meaning white folks if there’s to be hope of changing what we don’t like.
Some perspective: w w w.motherjones.com/politics/2014/02/21-things-you-cant-do-while-black
It’s easy to be dismissive of racial profiling if you have the good fortune to be white in this country (and all the prima facie privilege that comes with it). Again, not trying to be provocative, just trying to point out other folks’ reality is all too often ignored, even by the well-meaning.
+1