Decatur City Commission to Meet with School Board Over Bond Issue This Afternoon
Decatur Metro | August 5, 2013UPDATE: The City Manager has alerted the community that the meeting will be available via online video this afternoon.
The Decatur City Commission will meet with the Decatur Board of Education this evening to discuss the school system’s proposed bond issue that would build out the middle school and high school to accommodate projected enrollment growth by 2018. The city commission must vote to put the bond on the ballot for a public referendum.
CSD’s website shows that the agenda for the meeting includes the following items…
- Report on Master Plan
- Questions
- Planning for next Joint Meeting Topics of Concern
- Closing Remarks
The meeting starts at 5:15p at City Hall. The meeting is open to the public, but isn’t broadcast on the city’s website.
You can learn more about the City Schools of Decatur Master Planning process on CSD’s website HERE.
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It has been pointed out to me that the school system get bonds issued and then builds what the bonds get issued for. But then city gets bonds issued and then can’t build everything for what the bonds are issued.
Sure no one wants a higher tax bill but at least I feel the school system is doing a better job of managing their money then who ever is managing the city’s money.
The City commission should be thankful for the school system because without it, you just got DeKalb county and its’ lower home values.
It’s a symbiotic relationship. CSD depends on the Decatur tax base which is supported by businesses and the 3/4 of households that don’t have CSD students as well as the 1/4 of households that do. Thus the Decatur tax base depends on the attractiveness of Decatur to businesses and all residents, not just those with CSD students.
I’m not good at following the bond process. But I find the City operational budget quite transparent. There’s annual small group informational budget sessions that are open to residents who want to learn about the budget and ask questions. There’s also Decatur 101, which provides the chance to meet the actual staff involved.
If it’s true that the City regularly issues bonds that are not used, what happens to that money raised through taxes but not used?
What I meant was the city issues bonds and then can’t stay within their $ amount and have to get more bonds to finish the job. I believe the fire station#1 renovation and the new sanitation building are examples of this.
Ah, I see. And voters are pretty much forced to vote for the bonds to finish the job because otherwise we have 3/4 of a project built which is not of any use? What accounts for the difference between the projected cost and the actual cost? Time? Bidders coming in higher than expected? In my experience, CSD schools/school additions go up quickly, right after the money is available so there’s not much time for conditions to change. It seems like a hard process to resolve–projecting costs for a huge project accurately and yet getting open competitive bids once the money is available.
The supplementary bond David refers to wasn’t put before voters in a referendum. Nor was the $38 million for Beacon Hill. Which leads me to wonder if the CSD proposed bond is required to go to referendum or if the Commission could simply approve it if they so chose. I support referenda for bonds, I’m just wondering.
You seem to have the inside track on this but I was under the impression, to take the fire station example, that the overages were covered by the existing city budget. There was no tax increase or other manner in which residents were saddled with an additional burden they didn’t “sign on” for. Or, I guess in light of Judd’s comments, that the city commissioners didn’t authorize. Can you clarify? Thanks.
UPDATE: The City Manager has confirmed that the meeting video will be available on the city’s website.
If the city commission does not vote for the bonds, there are going to be some new city commissioners in 3 or 4 years. And I think there is a much greater number of households with kids in Decatur than 1/4. Where did that information come from At Home in Decatur?
I believe that was the number I learned several years ago at a City meeting–it’s not the % of households with children, it’s the percent of households with children enrolled in CSD. It did seem low to me even back then but it explained the reason that the City does not always have the same agenda as CSD. The City serves a wider population including a large number of senior households that have no ability anymore to increase their income.
We should check that percentage in case I’m remembering a false memory.
If the City Commission votes to raise taxes on the 3/4ths of us that do not have children in the CSD, there might be a lot of new city commissioners in 3-4 years.
I support public education and CSD, but I’m just not confident that this building campaign has been fully vetted. If anything has been consistent over the years it has been that no one has been able to even come close to predicting CSD enrollment – even a couple of three years out. Why do they have it right this time?
This is back of the envelope math, David, but here it goes anyway.
What we know for sure: There are 8500 households in the City of Decatur and there are 4,000 students enrolled in CSD this year.
Good guesses: Let’s say of the households with students in CSD has an average of 1.5 students. That would make about 2,600 housholds with students attending CSD. About 30%.
That would mean 70% of households do not have children in CSD.
Wikipedia: 2010 Census Data reported 29.5% of City of Decatur households as having children under the age of 18 living with them. City-Data.com: also 29%
Census Bureau, 2012 dataset: 22.6% of Decatur residents are under 18 years of age. Decaturga.com, 2010 data: 21% of residents are under 18 years of age.
So if one considers the increase in families with children since 2012, but subtracts out families that use private schools or homeschool their kids, I’ll bet 25% to 30% is about right, certainly not much more than 30%.
Scott, I was told something like ‘Build America’ bonds were issued that did not need to be put in front of the voters. These covered the $ amount the city/city manager did not budget for properly. It sounds like the city did not do the job they needed to do to make sure the our money was spent properly. But yet they want to keep the school system from issuing bonds. I say put the bond issue up to all the voters in the city and see how it goes.
Thanks. I think my question is still, did the overages on other projects result in increased taxes or are they being paid for by existing revenues? As I understand it, the distinction here is that the CSD bond is an endeavor with a particular additional tax price tag and, coupling construction costs with follow-through operational costs, no one’s entirely sure exactly what those cost impacts will be. At least in the conversations I’ve had with city commissioners, this is what they’d like a better understanding of prior to the vote so that they can determine and evaluate long-term impacts on vulnerable/fragile populations.
I understand your desire for “we the people” to make the call in November but I still can’t see how the commission doing basic due diligence before authorizing it is anything but a good thing.
Scott, I don’t know what the impact on taxes was or will be, but the first bond ($16+ million) ended up covering about half of what was on the ballot. The city then took out another $17+ million bond to finish the projects listed on the initial bond, and the second bond was not put to a referendum.
OK, I understand what you are saying. But did the city commissioners do their due diligence for the bonds issued for the city upgrades? If they did, they did not do it very well. And I wonder, now that my kids have gotten more than 1/2 through the school system, if there isn’t a different schooling model that is more cost effective.
Just curious, what facilities and/or assets of the schools are open to the citizens of Decatur without kids? If that list were to grow (or be publicized, b/c other than open playgrounds, I am not aware of any), it may be another reason for more households without children to be inclined to support the referendum.
CoD Folks without children in the CSD school system (me for 10+ years) should support the referendum because it is the right thing to do.
Our school system drives property values, let the schools start to deteriorate or signal that we will not continue investing in our best asset, people will move out. Half of our residents have at least 4 year college degrees for goodness sakes – let’s use our collective brains to continue to invest in our future.
Brad, I agree with you- my comment above was looking for ANOTHER reason to get non-CSD parents on board. different arguements in favor of supporting the schools with increased taxes will be of interest to the various residents, so in my mind, the more CSD can build a case that it is of value to the whole town, the better. Of course your points above are the number 1 value added.
Supporting this bond issue plan is the right thing to do only if it is carefully vetted and is found be the most reasonable , cost effective way to deal with the growing student population.
No Decatur taxpayer – with or without children in CSD – who wants more time to consider the details should be accused of letting ” the schools start to deteriorate” or being unwilling ” to continue to invest in our future.”
I live in Oakhurst, it is at least 1/2 of the residents who have children. Folks, my kids are grown, but if you think a large majority of the young people moving to this town are not doing it primarily for the schools….. Then why in the heck are our school buildings maxed out!
The relationship with the City is key. If you have lived here for 30 years you don’t need to remind folks of what happened to downtown Decatur when white parents got scared and flew out of this city like wildfire.
Again, I support the schools. Always have, always will. That’s not the question here.
But what if we take it too far in the other direction? What if we put such a burden on the taxpayers who do not have children in the schools that they fly “out of this city like wildfire” and move elsewhere? The result being the only people who can afford to live here are parents with kids in the school.
The only way the economics can work in a city like Decatur is if there are many more taxpayers funding the schools than using the schools. I think this is more a risk at the present juncture than parents fleeing Decatur for schools elsewhere. Are they going to go to Dekalb County, City of Atlanta?
And yet people still object to downtown apartments and condos that appeal predominantly to childless demographics — either young professionals or older empty nesters. Your scenario is the crux of the issue. What happens if we become a city where the bulk of residents are revenue-negative users of the school system? The money’s gotta come from somewhere. If you want to cater to school users, you must concurrently cater to those who foot the bulk of the bill.
On a side note, I too have always been a vocal supporter of CSD and everything, educationally speaking, they’ve done for this town.
Scrutinizing this bond issue and the proposed expansion plans before committing to it does not mean Decatur is about to “let the schools start to deteriorate or signal that we will not continue investing in our best asset.”
Look around and you’ll see it’s not families with children that are beginning to “fly out of the city like wildfire.” Think about how you’ll finish paying for that thing when, 10 years from now, the bulk of the city consists of revenue-negative households.
Anyone else having trouble getting audio on the live feed?
yes. no audio using Chrome and Safari on OSX
No audio for me either.
Streaming video now has audio
a couple details from the end of the meeting:
Dr. Edwards : operating budget will add 1.5-2.5 mils
Mayor Baskin: would be much more likely to support bond if add’l homestead exemptions for the elderly were implemented
overall impression: we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, but we need to do this.
the population numbers we’re building for are current residents and must be accommodated. it seems temporary solutions that delay biting off the full bond referendum will contribute to a more expensive build out as interest rates are likely to rise, and building around lots of trailers adds complexity and cost.
there’s also the matter of the population of resident <5 yo children who aren't in school yet and the sense that even if we don't build for the present bubble, the longer term trend will still demand enlarged capacity.
the board says it has been tracking and discussing this issue for ~2 years.
a couple of folks on the commission retorted: a meaningful part of the community wasn't aware and feels this is too big/too fast.
my personal feeling is extending the discussion another year will only clarify the reality of the need, is not likely to result in a new, less expensive option, and will only delay the inevitable while pushing its price tag higher.
that said, I do believe the additional year is likely to result in more consensus of support and will enhance the odds of the referendum's approval on the first ballot.
hopefully the video w/audio of the entire meeting will be posted soon—I found the content enlightening and persuasive.
Thanks for the update. The audio will indeed be helpful to those not there. In my experience, one has to be ready for big purchases whether they be houses, cars, or…..school buildings. It’s not just an analytic decision. Sounds like CSD is ready but the City is not so sure.
it’s the price of our success.
The COD Commissioners have 2 weeks to review the CSD’s presentation from tonight and make their decision about putting the bond referendum up for a vote in November. A couple of Commissioners felt this wasn’t sufficient time to review and discuss the material, so they’ve decided to add its discussion to a work session on the 19th. If, following that session they don’t feel they’re prepared to make a decision, they’ll hold another meeting prior to the August 31st deadline in order to arrive at their final recommendation.
August 31st is the deadline for informing the State Board of Elections(?) of their decision re: the bond referendum so that ballots can be prepared and required advertisements placed.
Hope I got that all correct.
link to the CSD’s presentation
http://decaturga.swagit.com/play/08052013-836