Greyhound Attacked and Killed By Unleashed Dog on Sycamore Street
Decatur Metro | March 16, 2011Frightening and very sad. From Fox5…
Thanks to Judy for forwarding.
Frightening and very sad. From Fox5…
Thanks to Judy for forwarding.
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Such a sad story. I’ve seen Joe out walking that beautiful dog and my sympathy goes out to Joe and his family.
Just terrible.
Okay, as usual, I’ll stick my neck out and start a poop-storm because this really hits a nerve for me: Notice the attacker was pit bull mix? I know, I know: your pit bull is a sweetie sweetie pooh bear, yes, she is! yes she is!; it’s not the breed, it’s the owner; they can be rehabilitated after years of abuse and be great pets for your toddler, etc. but, so often it IS the pit bull that is involved in attacks- disproportionately so. We can go through a chicken and egg analysis as to why they are the breed of choice for thugs, but why people continue to rescue this breed, which is aggressive and has an unmatched jaw strength, after abuse and expose innocent neighbors and children to them, I’ll never know. If so many animals have to be euthanized, why not have them first in line and prolong the chances of other breeds/safe Heinz 57’s? Last summer I was driving in Glennwood estates- saw two loose pit bulls. I had just passed a woman with baby in sling and walking a tiny dog. I turned around and gave her ride to her house- she was grateful and so nervous. I called police. Can’t stand those dogs. I also see a woman proudly walking her 2 or 3 (?) presumably rescue pits down Ponce alot. Instead of thinking “wow, what a wonderful, brave, enlightened giving soul,” I simply think “Freakin’ Fool.” Wish we could ban the breed altogether, grandfathering in existing ones, but, will never happen. Okay, I know 75% of you are having strokes and gearing up to tell me about your sweetie pie……
Time to put on your asbestos suit, NotSusan.
Heh heh!
Ever since joining in on this site, I’m on the wait list for the Witness Protection Program, trust me.
have to agree with mynameisnotsusan here…those dogs scare the cr@p out of me. period. the part about the mom with baby in sling…oh my…thank goodness you gave her a ride…they are far too unpredictable and the horror stories are endless.
The breed was bred to be dog aggressive (which is sad enough) but not necessarily human aggressive. Hate the terrible owners who use pit bulls for their own means, but don’t hate the breed. And I don’t have dogs at all, but I do have a friend who has the sweetest poopoo cuddly wuddly fuzzums rescued puppy mill babymama dog and who has taught me a great deal about this misunderstood breed. Meanwhile, I was bitten by an on-leash springer spaniel long ago – I walked too close to his owner, apparently…nasty dog, that one.
That said, this story is terrible and breaks my heart.
And I understand, Marla, that there are stories like this (awesome description, BTW
), but IMHO, one good apple doesn’t redeem the breed as a whole. I know there are stories like this. I’m sure that there are rescued pit bulls who have lived out their years in peace, otherwise, Decatur would have a large number of one-armed, eye-patched residents. But still, I stand by my position.
My name is Susan and I agree with you 100%!
Amen!
The problem isn’t the breed of dog here. Any dog that is not on a leash can be a danger.
And pit bulls are most certainly first on the list to be euthanized in the Dekalb Animal Shelter (they also FAR outnumber any other breed in the shelter).
I’d also like to point out that “pit bull” isn’t really a breed – but rather a mix of breeds (terriers).
I wonder how many pit bull attacks were committed by pit bulls that were rescued and well taken care of (and trained) and how many were committed by pit bulls that were neglected and allowed to roam the streets with no supervision. The kind people who rescue the pit bulls are, I’m guessing, not the problem.
Missed this earlier, but THANK YOU, Jess, for this comment. Lumping in people who rescue these dogs with the people who neglect & abuse them is just plain ignorant.
Very scary and I agree with MyNameIsNot Susan as well. What time of night did that happen? Could have just have easily been a small child that could’ve been attacked in that area.
What drives me nuts is the “off leash” dog. What is the law in City of D on leashes?
We definitely have one and everyone I see (including me) follows it. I am so impressed with the spirit of all the Decatur dog owners to respect this law. I can count on one hand how many times I”ve seen a dog off leash, and only once (pit bulls above) did it raise an alarm. The other few times it was very obvious that a friendly family pet, with tags, got loose on its own. One of the pit bulls had a tag (hell no I didn’t look at it!) and the other didn’t. Near entrance to the park.
According to city ordinance, when not confined in your house or within a fence, your dog must be on a leash or under voice command. Contrary to what most dog owners apparently believe, “voice command” means the dog will respond to you promptly, even when distracted by another dog passing by. In my experience, very few pet owners actually have voice command of their animals in stress situations. Reasonable people can disagree about the wisdom of keeping particular breeds as pets, especially in an urban environment. In my opinion, there is no room for disagreement about keeping your pet on a leash. It’s the law, and it’s the responsible thing to do, regardless of what breed your dog is.
The only time my dog, a sweet-tempered Lab mix, was ever attacked by another dog, the aggressor was a small, poodle/cocker/whatever mix of some kind — cute, fluffy little thing that ambushed us from her unfenced yard as we passed by on a Decatur sidewalk. My dog was on a leash and to my everlasting regret, I didn’t free her and let her deal with the attacker herself. Wound up with several deep puncture wounds, a substantial vet bill, and a permanent aversion to small, white dogs.
I grew up with dogs and have loved them all my life, including taking care of a friend’s two very neurotic pit bulls. The only time I was ever bitten, the culprit was a dachsund.
“What is considered aggressive [in dog breeds] is culturally and generationally relative. German Shepherds were on the top of the list after World War II; in the 1990s Rottweilers and Dobermans were scorned; the American Staffordshire Terrier (also known as the pit bull) is the current bête noire. Their classification has more to do with recent events and public perception than with their intrinsic nature. Recent research found that of all breeds, dachshunds were the most aggressive to both their own owners and to strangers. Perhaps this is underreported because a snarling dachshund can be picked up and stashed away in a tote bag.”
—p53, Dr. Alexandra Horowitz, “Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know” (http://amzn.com/1416583432)
And with a little digging, here’s the study cited by Horowitz:
Breed differences in canine aggression, 2008.
This is awful and was totally preventable. Our Yorkie has been attacked twice in the past 8 months by 2 different dogs within our own small neighborhood here in Decatur.
The first time, the dog that attacked her was not on a leash. The owners were right outside with the other neighbors and their dogs (also unleashed) when it occurred. Their dog came right up to us and within a split second had our Yorkie in her mouth shaking her like a rag doll. I was able to dislodge the dog from our dog, but not before she managed to bite through her hind quarters and into the muscle. We rushed her to the emergency vet where they were able to repair the partial muscle tear and stitch up her miscellaneous wounds. She had to go on antibiotics and pain meds for 10 days, wear the satellite dish collar, and get carried up and down the stairs for 2 weeks.
The second attack occurred more recently. This time the other dog was on a leash. The individual walking him however, could not control him when he went after our Yorkie. This time, it was my wife who was 2 days shy of being 9 months pregnant that was walking her. A scary, and very dangerous situation. Once again, our Yorkie received multiple bite wounds and was taken to the vet for more stitching, drugs, etc.
Obviously, our dog has been much more lucky than the dog in this story. Both instances the owners of the dogs took full responsibility and paid for the vet bills. Both times the owners said that this had never happened before. Both attacking dogs were rescue dogs. I don’t care how good you think your dog is, you do not know him like you think. They are dogs and are fully capable of behaving as such. Keep your dog on a leash…at ALL times. Otherwise, don’t have a dog. In addition, make sure you can handle your dog when it is on a leash. I see people getting rescue dogs and believe they are doing the right thing by giving them a home. It does not stop there however. You have an even greater responsibility when you adopt that kind of pet. Proper training is essential. No matter what, no matter how good you think your dog is, regardless…leash it up…rescue or not.
I feel terrible for this man and hope he overcomes his grief soon enough.
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/applan/article/PIIS0168159108001147/abstract
“Breeds with the greatest percentage of dogs exhibiting serious aggression (bites or bite attempts) toward humans included Dachshunds, Chihuahuas and Jack Russell Terriers (toward strangers and owners); Australian Cattle Dogs (toward strangers); and American Cocker Spaniels and Beagles (toward owners).”
Anecdotally, I can say the dogs I was most cautious around when working as a vet tech years ago were Dachshunds, Cockers, and Dalmatians. They all tend to be psycho fear biters.
I’ve heard this about just about every breed. To me the difference is RESCUE pit bulls are more dangerous, coupled with an iron jaw and they won’t back down- they are fearless, which is why they are great fighters. Cockers are known to be snippy, but if I was attacked by one, I can tell you who would win. And it’s the damn rescue ones that so many Decaturites are bringing into our neighborhood.
I’m sure this is true. But I think the point of bans against certain dog breeds is that if they do happen to bite, the results are certain to be deadly or devastating.
So basically any breed over 40lbs?
I would say no, Faustito. I think it is hard to escape one’s DNA (man or beast), and are pit bulls not bred to be killers? Have they not been bred that way for a very long time?
I don’t think the genetics argument really holds water since all dogs have 99% or so of their DNA in common (and a great deal of that percentage in common with wolves).
That’s an interesting reply, Faustito, and I’ll have to think on it a while. The first thing that springs to my mind, however, is that I’d bet all horses have a lot of DNA in common. But we only bet on the thoroughbreds, no?
No, many Pits and other breeds are bred in someone’s back yard or a puppy mill so they can make a few bucks and genetics aren’t really considered. Many of these dogs are rescued from a life of neglect not fighting.
I’ve never met an aggressive pit but have seldom met a sweet Chihuahua, yet I’m sure they are out there.
Thank you Faustito for actually presenting facts into this discussion.
Ditto. My sister’s chihuahuas are THE nastiest-tempered dogs I’ve ever met, and it’s not because she neglects them– to the contrary, they live better than most people in 3rd world countries. But they just don’t like other people or animals.
No, Parker– I can tell you that they are NOT bred to be killers, at least, not by reputable owners. And even in the case of Michael Vick’s dogs, all of whom were presumably “bred” to fight/kill, only two could not be rehabilitated at all; most were adopted out, and those who couldn’t be re-trained to be other-dog friendly weren’t aggressive toward the trainers at the animal sanctuary where they were all initially sent (by the Court).
As you pointed out originally, not all breeds are the same, so, no, I wouldn’t recommend banning all dogs over 40 pounds. I was noting that some breeds are more dangerous than others, even if less likely to bite, because they’re more likely to kill. Below is a link to a CDC study which found that 67% of all dog bite fatalities over a two-year period were caused by pit bulls, rottweilers and mixes thereof. The writer says: “It is extremely unlikely that they [pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers] accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.”
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
Well, here’s how that particular study is skewed: it’s an unfortunate fact that the breeds that are perceived as being big, strong, don’t-f*ck-with-me dogs are favored by people in the kinds of socio-economic backgrounds that tend to make for poor dog owners. These people tend not only neglect to properly train & socialize their dogs, but they also tend to neglect to properly supervise them when they’re with their children. I say this with the full disclosure that I’m a member of an ethnic group that is disproportionately represented in those particular socio-economic backgrounds, and I say it without rancor or irony. Bottom line: very poor, woefully uneducated people, regardless of ethnicity, generally don’t make attentive parents OR great pet owners. It stands to reason that a disproportionate number of incidents involving pits & attacks are going to happen when the two are combined.
I hereby award you a gold star for this response. Well put.
I’m sure that’s a valid point. But I’m also sure that if dachsunds or chihuahuas replaced pit bulls as the thug dog of choice, we would not suffer a rash of deadly dachsund attacks.
Well, DEC, the amount of damage that a dog is capable of inflicting is a different issue than whether it’s inherently aggressive, and thus more likely than others to attack. Hearkening back to Parker’s horse-breeding example: just because a Tennessee Walker (avg. height: 14 hands) has the potential to inflict a deadlier kick than a Shetland pony (avg. height: 8 hands) doesn’t mean the former is more likely to do so than the latter. It also doesn’t mean the Shetland couldn’t eff you up somethin’ fierce if you p!ssed it off enough.
From the 2007 Merritt Clifton Study (paraphrasing):
” I f a l m o s t a n y o t h e r d o g h a s a b a d m o m e n t , s o m e o n e m a y g e t b i t t e n , b u t w i l l n o t b e m a i m e d f o r l i f e o r k i l l e d , …. I f a p i t b u l l t e r r i e r o r a R o t t w e i l e r h a s a b a d m o m e n t , often s o m e o n e i s m a i m ed o r k i l l e d – -“
Thanks, Faustito, for alerting people about these other breeds- I was recently bitten by a rescued dalmation belonging to a neighbor – it lunged at me suddenly with no warning whatsoever. Thank heavens I was wearing thick jeans or the damage to my leg would have been even more serious.
So you can tell a rescue pit bull by sight?
Oh give me a break. Not only did I write “presumabley,” but certainly you are aware of the hip, new trend to adopt rescue pit bulls. It’s a badge of honor in some circles. I don’t know too many people, when deciding to get a family pets, by-passes all breeds and rushes to their local pit bull breeder, who undoubtedly would be fine, upstanding citizen, to put in a basket under the Christmas tree. Yes, my sarcasm is thick.
“And it’s the damn rescue ones that so many Decaturites are bringing into our neighborhood.”
Again, you can’t know this for a fact.
You also mentioned favoring the “Heinz57’s” for adoption and the dog involved in this attack is described as a “mix”. Clearly a genetic testing regimen to determine Level of Pit Bull is needed.
Your opinions about rescue pits are also ludicrous. A rescue animal is not only going to be neutered (a definite issue with dog agression), it’s going to be leashed, trained, and cared for. Animals involved in attacks are very often the opposite of rescue dogs; they are not fixed, not trained, and left to wander the streets. One could ALMOST surmise that the owners are largely responsible for dog attacks.
MNINS, Dresden asks a valid question here–and you address it with contradictory sarcasm. Seriously, how can you tell a rescued pitbull (-mix or otherwise) from, say, a Staffordshire Terrier-mix, Boxer-Dachshund-mix? All of these breeds, and others, have been bred to be fighters or at least aggressive. The problem is ultimately with the owners–hence the no-leash aspect of this story, and your disgust with hipsters rescuing certain breeds of dogs.
I love greyhounds and plan to adopt some in the future, but they have been known to be aggressive as well, so what I’m asking is where would you draw the line on banning breeds of dog? At just pits? Dogs are by nature predatory and protective–that’s why we have them, and unfortunately some (SOME) are dangerously aggressive, and horrible things like this happen, but this is not how all dogs (pits, Boxers, Staff-Terriers, English Bulldogs, etc) are.
The difference between those breeds and a pit bull is simple. A pit bull can easily kill a small child. Most other dog breeds typically bite and retreat while a pit bull has been bred to bite and hold on until their opponent dies.
Little dogs can be overly aggresive, presumably to make up for their small stature, but I’ve never read a story about a Chihuahua killing a toddler.
Maybe not, but certainly babies have been killed by other, “family friendly” breeds. Just one example: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/07/29/dnt.ok.puppy.kills.baby.cnn
So if someone’s pit bull killed my dog, would I be able to beat the owner senseless and claim self defence?
I’m only partially kidding. I’m glad this didn’t happen to me because I’d probably be going to jail.
Hah. And I almost agree. It IS the responsibility of the owner to control his dog.
I grew up on a farm where my parents bred cocker spaniels, and have had a dog or two almost all of my life. The only dogs that ever bit me were a pekinese, a chihuahua, a poodle, and a cocker. None of my own dogs ever bit me, though. I think leash laws should be very strictly enforced, but inexperienced people often buy leashes that are inadequate for the size/strength of their dog and their own ability of animal control. I am uneasy in the presence of pit bulls, no matter what their history and no matter whether they have a leash on them or not, because I’m never sure that their owner actually has the necessary control. I’m not confident about voice command, because I have only SEEN it done one time in all my years — in every other instance, the dog just kept doing what it wanted to do.
I used to be so open-minded about those dogs. To the point that I even adopted a 5 month old pit mix several years ago. Nary a week went by and she attacked my small 11 year old, 12 pound dog, necessitating staples in her head. It wasn’t provoked and wasn’t over a resource (food, toy, attention). Gave her back, and then recalled that my parents (who grew up across the street from one another in Baltimore) had a similar story. My dad’s parents were given a Staffordshire Terrier and it attacked and killed my mom’s dog. They gave it up. Sadly, I’m afraid there is a lot of truth behind the reputation of these dogs.
One more interesting note. Pets are People Too will not even board pits at their Montreal Ave location (at least, that was the case a few years ago) because of prior incidents between animals.
NotSuze, I understand your (and others’) fear here, and why there’s a perception that pits/pit mixes are more aggressive/dangerous than others. But if you do a simple Google search on dog bite statistics, you’ll find that a) the dogs people commonly assume are “pit bulls” in fact are not; and b) even “bona fide” pits are no more likely to be aggressive than other breeds (indeed, are less likely than most); see, e.g., http://www.atts.org/temperament.html. These dogs were traditionally bred as herders; their history shows that they were also bred for selective “people-pleasing” traits. Helen Keller kept pits all her life, as have thousands of other people, with absolutely NO incidents of aggression. Even so, ALL dogs, from Labradors to Greyhounds, are territorial pack animals, and can therefore behave aggressively when they perceive their territory is being invaded or their “pack” is out of order. I can guarantee you that in a contest between you and any dog enraged or afraid enough to attack you, even a cocker is going to be pretty danged tough for you to fight off. I nearly had a finger taken off by my grandmother’s neighbor’s teacup chihuahua, and the only thing I’d done was touch its box. It clung to my finger like death, until its owner prised it off me. Pretty scary for a 10 yr-old!
Full disclosure: we’ve very recently adopted an American Staffordshire Terrier, one of the breeds commonly lumped in with pits. If you’d told us a year ago that we’d have ended up with a Staffy, we’d have told you you needed your head examined, because frankly, we too had many of the same misperceptions you have. However, this “rescue dog” has been a dream. He already naps with our cats, has been terrified by our neighbor’s female Scottie (he ran & hid behind my legs when CeCe bounded up to play with him, and only came back out when I assured him it was all right & he saw me petting her), and plays beautifully (and gently) with our grade-school nieces & nephews, who love him to bits. He doesn’t look like it, but he’s a complete wuss! Everyone who meets him falls in love with him (yes, even those who shy away from him at first), because he’s just that charming & loving. We already cannot imagine our lives without him.
I’m sure this won’t change your mind, and you’re of course entitled to your opinion. As well, I’m sure my perceptions are now colored by my personal experiences with our dog. But I felt it was necessary to counter your perceptions with those experiences, because this breed has been unfairly painted as being brutual and vicious by nature. It isn’t, and I’m already growing weary of seeing the knee-jerk, villagers-with-pitchforks mentality of people who jump on the “all pit bulls are BAD” bandwagon. I stand behind my main point, which is, quite simply, negligent owners can make for badly-behaved dogs, regardless of the breed. Nothing I’ve said should be taken to mean that I don’t feel absolutely wretched for the poor greyhound and his owner, who’s lost his precious companion– my heart aches for him. However, to condemn an entire breed because of it is simply unfair.
Nicely put, cubalibre .
Well that beats my response, Cuba, but, yeah, what Cuba said.
I understand that you are “I’m already growing weary of seeing the knee-jerk, villagers-with-pitchforks mentality of people who jump on the “all pit bulls are BAD” bandwagon.”
I know- we are just stupid and ignernt. I am already weary of seeing all those people making foolish choices and putting innocent people in danger because they want to “do good.”
Enjoy your pet- I’m glad she’s a good addition. Gotta run- gotta work.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/biased-sample.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/questionable-cause.html
Ok, looking at this, I regret putting it like this, and to the extent that it looks like a personal attack, I would retract it if I could (DM?). However, I do think the statement is ignorant. It’s basically a carte blanche assumption that people who rescue these dogs are doing so only to “look good” or “hip”. That’s insulting.
Done.
Thanks! I try to moderate myself, so you don’t have to…
As usual, nicely argued, cubalibre. But about your point “These dogs were traditionally bred as herders,” doesn’t the name pit bull itself refer to the dog fighting pit?
It does, Parker, but you should know that “pit bull” is a relatively recent moniker. What most people don’t know is that for every pit that is :successfully” bred to fight/kill, dozens who won’t fight or even fight back are used as bait dogs (and yes, it’s exactly what it says: they’re used as bait to induce the more aggressive ones to fight). Fact is, I can guarantee you that if you give me a Golden Retriever, a socio-path bent on cultivating a dog’s aggression, and a lengthy period of abuse and negligence, I can crank you out a raging fighter who’ll rip you open at the drop of a hat.
Yes, very likely true, and dreadful to consider.
I tend to agree with Great Bernard Shaw, “I like a bit of a mongrel myself, whether it’s a man or a dog; they’re the best for everyday.”
To all the Pit Bull apologists: These numbers speak for themselves. The study has been criticized as non-scientific, not peer reviewed, by an author who didn’t use proper research methods, etc. But it is still pretty glaring. Take a look a the maimings and fatalities of the pit bull breeds.
http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attacks-merritt-clifton-2007.pdf
Even with the numbers being biased toward irresponsible, untrained owners, that does not account for the fact that the pit bull numbers are so high. Even if you control for a certain amount of misclassifcation (why is there no staffordshire breed listed?), and even if these numbers are 50% lower than this compilation shows, it’s pretty clear this is a dangerous breed.
At first it looks like this report is written as expert testimony in a slip and fall type -dog bite case, but after seeing this article, I think it was taken on independently by a publication. There is more here.
http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/07/1/pitbullproblem1_07.html
One point that made me laugh: “among a sampling of 355 people who keep pet dogs, all who keep pit bulls turned out to have had some sort of trouble with the law.”
How about this: If we can’t ban the breed, at least have an owner registry. Including “staffies”.
“The study has been criticized as non-scientific, not peer reviewed, by an author who didn’t use proper research methods, etc.”
If you’re going to use such a study for your premise, you should expect your premise to rise or fall with the weaknesses of the study. The reason you should be very careful about using such information as a basis to support your opinions is simple: it causes more harm than it attempts to inform. Studies using similar sloppy, non-peer-reviewed methods were used to argue that vaccinations could cause autism, to the great harm of many who believed those studies & elected not to have their kids vaccinated. Even after those studies were roundly disqualified, there are those who still believe that vaccines can cause autism, and no amount of facts or unbiased information will sway them.
Kinda the same situation going on here. It’s easier to fear-monger than to ascertain facts.
Well, no real premise being made by the author. I read this as nothing more than a compilation of observations and formed my own conclusion, if there is any premise being made.
Those numbers suggest to me that there is reason to believe that these dogs are more dangerous than others. And I’ve been skeptical about the overhyped pit bull attacks vs. other attacks, so it was interesting to see actual data.
And I don’t think it compares to that vaccines/autism controversy either. If I recall, those studies WERE submitted to scientific journals and later found to be based on fraudulent research. They were testing hypotheses and drawing inferences, (maybe conclusions?). This study is different in that it is a compilation of observations with author comments and the author didn’t claim to be “doing science.”
This is interesting:
Eric B: “Even with the numbers being biased toward irresponsible, untrained owners, that does not account for the fact that the pit bull numbers are so high.”
AND:
“One point that made me laugh: “among a sampling of 355 people who keep pet dogs, all who keep pit bulls turned out to have had some sort of trouble with the law.”
Kind of points toward problems with pits being irresponsible owners, no?
Good catch!
Also suggests ol’ freecuba might be some sort of outlaw. (Being a pit owner – all of whom have had some sort of trouble with the law)
I fought the law, and the law won…wait, no…I couldn’t beat the law, so I joined it. Yeah, that’s it!
hmmm… guessing not police, so must be a lawyer.
Yikes! I am beginning to sense some aggression (often associated with the pets of which we are speaking) on this website.
Glad you posted that so neatly, Mair. The post I was contemplating might have been too pointed and gotten me moderated. I think this is an interesting conversation, and I admit to my possibly irrational distaste for the breed.
Thinking about interspecies cooperation, and this is not relevant to the original post, parents: please train your children to approach dogs with caution. Back when we had dogs, back when the Concerts on the Square were not so well attended, we used to bring our two enormous dogs (a shepherd mix and a Great Pyrenees mix) with us to the concerts on Saturday nights. On their leashes.
They were attractive dogs and uncountable numbers of children would approach at a run and fling their arms around the dogs, particularly the fluffy white Great Pyrenees. There were no incidents, but it made me uncomfortable. As the concerts grew more crowded, we stopped bringing the dogs.
I sure do miss those beasts.
Right on, Parker. I have taught my children to ALWAYS ask a dog owner if it’s OK to pet their dog, and to wait for a response before making a move. The breed of dog (for that matter, any pet) is irrelevant.
I have also taught them to approach slowly, with their hand out so the dog can sniff it first. I’ve never had a dog, but I think that’s the appropriate thing to do. Feel free to correct me.
This is a pretty good kids’ book about interacting with new dogs: http://amzn.com/0805087338
This sickens me, and scares me. I am a greyhound owner, and have seen these 2 walking around Decatur for quite some time. I am very sad for this event. This too has happened to me innocently walking my dog around town, luckily my dog fought back and ended up injuring the cocker spaniel that came after her after I threw the dog off of my dog. I have seen many, many pit attacks on both humans and animals, and it is certainly scary and a result of irresponsible owners.
The news story says the dog is being quarantined for rabies testing and the PD will decide after that whether to issue a citation. That implies that the owners are known to the PD, right?
The story did not say what happens to the dog. What is the process? Is it wrong to expect that a dog that has attacked a man and killed another dog would be euthanized?
I really don’t want any of us or any of our kids out walking, or walking our dogs, to encounter this dog again. Ever.
How does this argument change if you the subject is guns instead of pit bulls? Isn’t it still owners versus the inherent deadliness of the subject in question? I know it is childish, just making a comparison……
How does this argument change if the subject is guns instead of pit bulls? Isn’t it still owners versus the inherent deadliness of the subject in question? I know it is childish, just making a comparison……
Sadly, the media has created a public hysteria by only reporting pit bull attacks and labeling many dogs as “pit bulls” that aren’t actually pit bulls.
Here are just a handful of stories of dog attacks:
http://newsok.com/dog-mauls-kills-infant-in-tulsa-home/article/3275873
Quote:
Dog mauls, kills infant in Tulsa home
By Sheila Stogsdill The Oklahoman
Published: July 28, 2008
TULSA — A 2-month-old infant was attacked and killed Monday morning after being mauled by a Labrador puppy, said Jason Willingham, Tulsa police spokesman. Authorities will not release the child’s name until Tuesday.
Officers were notified about 10:30 a.m. The child was pronounced dead at the home, he said. The home is located in the 2900 block of E 102nd Street South.
Willingham said the infant boy was left unattended in an infant swing and authorities think was bitten numerous times by a black Labrador puppy.
Police are unsure what caused the dog to attack. The Labrador and another dog were placed in a shelter.
The child’s mother and grandmother were inside the residence, but in a different part of the house, he said. The parents are not under arrest, Willingham said.
Willingham said authorities didn’t know how long the child was left unattended or how many bites he received.
The child’s body was taken to the Medical Examiner’s office.
Willingham said the child’s death is still under investigation.
http://www.amarillo.com/stories/100900/usn_pet.shtml
Quote:
Pet Pomeranian kills 6-week-old baby girl
The Associated Press
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LOS ANGELES (AP) – A small Pomeranian dog killed a 6-week-old baby girl in Valinda when the infant’s caretaker left the bedroom to prepare a bottle of milk, authorities said Sunday.
A relative left the baby unattended for a moment, and when he returned, he found the infant’s head in the dog’s mouth Saturday night, county sheriff’s Deputy Cruz Solis said. The girl died of head trauma at an area hospital, Solis said.
The names of the victims were withheld by authorities because the baby’s parents are out of the country and had not yet been notified, Solis said.
County animal control officers took the dog for an investigation, Solis said.
Pomeranians are a breed of miniature canines that have a foxlike face, pointy ears and long, fluffy hair. The deputy said Pomeranian attacks are rare, especially compared to attacks by bigger dogs such as Rottweilers and pit bulls.
“Obviously it doesn’t take much to kill a 6-week old baby but it’s not something that happens with that breed,” Solis said.
The relative, who has not been charged with any crime, was taking care of the baby in the community of Valinda, 20 miles east of Los Angeles.
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/homepage/x607061059
Quote:
Kentucky infant died of suffocation, blood loss in dog attack
January 20, 2008 @ 08:50 AM
Herald-Dispatch.com
LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — Authorities say a 6-week-old baby in Lexington died of suffocation and blood loss after being attacked by a family dog.
Witnesses told police that the baby, identified as Justin Mozer, was sleeping in a bedroom Friday afternoon when a Jack Russell terrier attacked him.
An autopsy was done Saturday on the infant’s body, and the Fayette County coroner’s office says it showed that he died of traumatic asphyxia, or suffocation, and blood loss due to the attack.
Police said the mother was bathing another child while the baby was sleeping in the same room as the dog, WKYT-TV in Lexington reported.
The coroner’s office says the baby was found unresponsive after the attack. The baby was taken to University of Kentucky Hospital where he was pronounced dead.
The coroner’s office says the death is being investigated as accidental.
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20080617%2FLOCAL07%2F806170302
Quote:
Published: June 17, 2008 3:00 a.m.
Puppy attacks baby sleeping with mother
Infant has surgery; pet is euthanized
By Megan Hubartt
The Journal Gazette
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A 1-month-old was attacked and seriously injured by a puppy while he slept with his mother Saturday.
The baby suffered “substantial damage” to his genitals while he lay in bed with his mother from an attack by the family’s 6-month-old Cairn terrier and poodle mix, police said.
The mother told police she went to bed with the child after returning from work about 6 a.m. and was awoken about 1 p.m. by her 5-year-old. When she awoke, she noticed the baby had been moved and his diaper was missing. She then saw he had blood on him and rushed him to St. Joseph Hospital, the report said.
The baby’s injuries required transfer to Lutheran Hospital, where he underwent corrective surgery. He is expected to survive, but police did not know whether the injuries caused permanent damage. An updated condition from the hospital was not available Monday, police spokesman Michael Joyner said.
Investigators believe nothing from the attack suggests neglect was to blame for the child’s injuries and no charges are likely, Joyner said.
The dog was relinquished by its owner and was euthanized, said Belinda Lewis, director of Fort Wayne Animal Care & Control. Its remains are being sent to Indianapolis for rabies testing in the hopes that the baby will not have to go through rabies treatment, she said.
Peggy Bender, community relations and education specialist for Animal Care & Control, said it is important for families with young children to always supervise animals.
“As soon as you are aware a baby is going to join the family, you need to be thinking in terms of preparation and supervision,” Bender said.
She recommends preparing dogs with obedience training, not only so the animal learns to obey but also so a professional can evaluate its behavior.
They should also be “crate trained” so dogs become accustomed to being in a crate when they cannot be actively supervised, Bender said.
“It is just critical to always supervise young children around pets,” she said. “Never leave an infant baby in a room where a dog has access to it if you are not actively supervising.”
I have been around and worked with hundreds of dogs, many of them pit bulls. I’ve been attacked twice. Once by a golden retriever and once by a standard poodle.
Here’s another link on the subject: http://www.atlantapitbullparents.com/pages/statements.html
Thanks for posting, Whitney!
DM: the list of fallacies committed was too much? I thought so, but went for it anyway. Mea culpa.
To what are you referring? I haven’t moderated anything, except for the comment that cuba asked me to removed.
Sorry. Must have been too many urls or I hit the wrong button. Cheers.
Found it. It went to the spam folder for some reason. Probably because it was just links.
Thanks.
Where’s Atticus Finch when you need him?
To shoot the dog or to defend the unjustly accused? Atticus did both.
A few years ago, an undesirable neighbor lived across the street from me. He had a beautiful pit bull named Butterscotch. The dog appeared to be young and was obviously starved for human interaction since the owner kept her chained outside ALL THE TIME. The dog got loose a few times and the surrounding neighbors would call Animal Control (who responded quite quickly I might add). I always hoped that the owner was too sorry and lazy to go get the dog so that maybe she would have a chance to be adopted by responsible people. No such luck. One time, as I was walking my shih tzu, Butterscotch got loose and came bounding over. I believe she was just playing and I knew that she had never received any sort of training. But she kept jumping up on me and nipping at my back and legs. I immediately picked up my dog and walked quickly (didn’t want to run to set off Butterscotch) back to my house while she was nipping at my heels. Luckily, a neighbor drove up and started honking her horn to scare off Butterscotch. We called Animal Control again. It was quite a scary incident because I could feel the power in that dog just from her jumping up and nipping at me.
I felt sorry for the dog because the owner was a POS when it came to being a responsible dog parent. He finally moved away, but I’ve often wondered what ever happened to Butterscotch.
Is it me or does every decade seem to have its very own “BOGEY-DOG”?
I can remember, beware of German Shepards, Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers …
Very sad for the couple whose family pet dog was attacked and subsequently put down.
My dog was attacked by 2 greyhounds in the Oakhurst dog park. They packed, chasing her like a rabbit (she is white, 20 lbs) and would not back off even when I finally had her in my arms. My continuous kicking and screaming got 1 to leave and finally the owner noticed (duh) to get the 2nd one off of us. Luckily I was not injured but was very shaken up and my dog’s physical injuries healed. What never changed back was my dog’s personality. She was scared which then led to aggressive barking.
Today I am still frightened by greyhounds. I do not like the behaviors I see in terrier mixes and I avoid the dog park when the packs of “been coupes up all day” untrained and often unwatched larger dogs are there. Sadly the examples of attacks like the lead story where leash walking continue to happen. Very frightening.
(first time posting from mobile – please forgive typos)
Whether pits are inherently aggressive or just commonly raised to be that way is almost beside the point. The fact is that the number of attacks by pit bull and pit bull mixes is way disproportionate to their numbers. We have to address safety before we can get too far into the nuances of causation. Personally, I believe that like most things, it’s a combination of nurture and nature. Pit bulls may have a tendency to fight IF that is brought out in them, but there is no doubt that they can be raised to be gentle and loving companions. However, the bottom line right now is that there are many who have not been raised that way. They need to be tightly controlled and the penalty for not doing so should be severe. I’ve had to fight one of them to protect my old Lab and it scared and enraged me. We survived but both of us had injuries that could easily have been far worse.
>>The fact is that the number of attacks by pit bull and pit bull mixes is way disproportionate to their numbers.<<
Could you please provide a link to information that supports this conclusion? I'd be very interested to see it…
I for one am just about scared of all dogs after my Dad got attacked by a dog while he was innocently running and hearing the story of my brother-in-law being bitten on his head by a dog when he was just a boy and my cousin being bitten on her head when she was a little girl. I try to be brave when I see a dog of his leash, especially when I’m in front of my children. I don’t want them to grow up being afraid of dogs as well, but I never know what to do. All I want to do is run away as fast as I can, but I know you shouldn’t do that.
ALL dogs are capable of “aggression.” The only bite I ever received in my life time with animals was from a Golden Retriever! But they are animals and respond as animals. When my slightly arthritic, white-faced, sweet as pie, cuddly as a teddy bear Golden has overdone it and is sore, and my daughter wants to pull on her, the only way she has of saying “enough!” is to growl. It’s a rare event, but it’s a warning I’ve taught my daughter to heed.
Other than dogs on the lose, which I always treat as suspect, the dogs I am most cautious around are the ones whose owners treat them like human babies or credit their dog with very involved human emotions. That pretty much tells me that the owner doesn’t respect the dog as an animal and has little control over it.
I am so sorry for the owner and the dog who was attacked and killed. I am a dog lover, but I am also very much in favor of dogs be on a leash in public, and being under control of their owners at all times. We have a breed of dog (who is still a puppy) that has been labeled “dangerous”–a Rottweiler. However, we got him as a puppy and carefully selected the breeder. We made sure that he was carefully bred for health and temperament. We also are very aware of this breed’s repuatation as well as his physical ability to do harm, but we are raising him to be part of the family, training him to be well-behaved, and he will always be supervised and under control.
I am partial to this breed because I had a Rottweiler as a child and he was my best buddy–think of the “Carl the Rottweiler” books. I also had a Rottweiler as a single woman in Decatur before meeting my husband, and he was a cherished companion to me and later my husband and older daughter.
We have also had the unfortunate experience of rescuing a dog (mix breed, but he looked like German Shepard, Chow, and Pit Bull). We had him for 7 years, and he was fine until the Rottie died, at which point he struggled with who was Alpha. He then became aggressive toward my daughter, and then toward me. We tried to rehabilitate him, tried to find him another home, and even put him on anti-anxiety meds, but after months of no success, we had to euthanize him before he actually hurt anyone, and it was heart wrenching. Because of this experience, and the fact that we have two young children (4 and 7), we decided not to rescue another dog for a while.
I can understand many points here. I think the main themes (perhaps we can all agree to some extent?) are these:
1) No breed of dog is inherently bad. Bad owners, whether the first owners or the rescue owners, and whether irresponsible or outright abusive, are most often to blame. In other words, the way an animal is raised and treated has the biggest impact on its behavior. It is not clear whether all dogs can be rehabilitated if they have been abused, bred to fight, or have a history of aggression.
2) Some breeds, because of their size and jaw power, are more dangerous.
3) Some breeds, for whatever reason, may be more likely to bite than others.
4) All dogs are animals, and as such, are to some extent unpredictable. They should always be on a leash AND under control of their owners. Very few dogs have been trained adequately to walk off leash outside of designated “dog parks.”
5) All dogs should have at minimum obedience training, and the bigger the dog, the more an owner should work with and be aware of the dog’s temperament and potential to do harm.
What do you all think? Just trying to make a little peace here…
C’mon people. All these references to small dog breeds being more aggressive are ridiculous. If a chihuaha or jack russel were to attack and bite my daughter I could easily pick it up and punt it like a little furry football. And I would. Any bites inflicted would be non life threatening. A pit bull can quickly kill a child and it would not be easy to fight one off. Just read the description of the incident. The pit bull killed a dog likely bigger than itself and dragged a grown man into the street during the melee I’m not saying they should be banned (and certainly there are nice pit bulls) but they have been bred to be fierce fighters and killers and one would be foolish not to be very cautious around them, particularly with small children.
After reading this thread, which contains some thoughtful and articulate comments, I remain puzzled why so much of the heat has focused on the relative evils and virtues of particular dog breeds, and why more people are not up in arms about the City’s apparent hesitancy to enforce the leash law. If Channel 5 has their facts right, the decision won’t be made for days yet, of whether or not to cite the owner of the attacking dog. Why is there even any question about it? The leash law is crystal clear: on or off private property, it is the responsibility of the owner/custodian to control their dog. I don’t understand why this is not being addressed per the law.
It’s still possible for dogs to escape their yards and roam around the streets. I see some of the same dogs on a weekly basis in my yard with no owner in sight. I’ve been known to sit in my van until the dog is gone or even to leave the house and come back later.
Dear momof3: Please consider getting assertive about this. If you know the dogs’ owner(s), please speak to them. If you aren’t inclined to do that, please call animal control and ask them to intervene. Even without your particular apprehensions/fear about dogs (which I am not dismissing, at all), that is not an acceptable situation. If I were the owner of any of those dogs and didn’t realize it was roaming unchaperoned (as happened with nelliebelle), I would definitely want to know so I could keep it from happening, out of concern for the dog’s safety and consideration for the neighbors (not to mention it’s the law!). If I knew it and was letting it happen, then I would deserve to face the legal consequences. If I was an innocent passerby and happened to suffer some injury from any of those dogs, and found out that they’d been known to roam and nobody did anything about it, I’d be pretty disgusted. But it starts with your right to move between your own vehicle and your own house, in your own yard, without needing to worry about four-legged trespassers.
You got it! Next time I see a loose dog I will call animal control.
But, I also don’t think I should be held responsible if this dog attacks someone. I have no control what the dog does and sometimes I might not actually have the time to call animal control (think three small children who always need my attention!) It’s not always easy to find a number and make a phone call the minute you see a loose dog. I will, however, make a good effort next time I see this dog.
mom – In no way did I mean to imply the dogs are your responsibility, or that you should necessarily stop what you’re doing every time you see one loose, and take some action. On the other hand, if something that shouldn’t be happening is occurring repeatedly or on an ongoing basis, then I do think each of us has a responsibility to call attention to it. It’s all about the c-word.
Good point, STG. Part of it may be lack of reporting on the side of people in the area. My Jack Russell used to escape our chicken wire reinforced fence by wedging her way up a tree and jumping over a six foot picket fence then burrowing back under before we got home. We never knew she was getting out until she got hit by a car and maimed. Only once in 10 years did animal control ever attempt to catch her- my husband came home in the middle of the day to 3 animal control officers chasing her around our yard like a Benny Hill skit while she jumped, sprinted and burrowed her way back home. After she got hit, I found a dozen people who fed her and/or hung out with her during the day who told me she had been getting out daily for years and they figured either we knew or she was a stray. She even had the street name of Ben. She was apparently notorious on Maxwell Street. No one ever reported her or let us know she was out. I wish we hd known for a lot of reasons.
And yes, she had a collar and tag.
Let’s not conflate two separate issues: 1) aggression, and 2) physical size and ability to do harm. I have personally seen a small breed dog, for example a chihuahua, bite or act aggressive more times than I can count. And I have never even owned a small breed dog. My two Rottweilers lived nine years each and never once bit anyone. True, if a Pit Bull or other large dog were to bite, it would do much more harm. The behavior of aggression is what we are talking about with small breed vs large breed (to simplify–I know there are exceptions). It is well-known that small breed dogs are much more likely to bite. The fact that, unfortunately, if a larger dog bites, it will most likely inflict serious harm, has to do more with the size and power of a dog.
That’s why, going back to my previous post, large dog owners need to be sure that their dogs are properly trained and under their control at all times. And if there is a history of abuse, neglect, or aggression, the owner should be ultra-cautious, even if the dog seems to be rehabilitated.
Sorry Cuba I love you but I somewhat agree with Susan’s initial thesis. Merrit Clifton, animal welfare activist and editor of the newspaper Animal People, determined in an exhaustive study from 1982-2006 in the US and Canada that “pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. ” The pits and mixes are responsible for more fatal and serious attacks than all other breeds combined
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
And:
“Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996….[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.” (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)
Thanks, Nell– and no need to say sorry, b/c people feel the way they feel, and that’s how it is. But since you’re citing material taken from a dog bite lawyer’s website (no bias there, eh?), there are other sites that are rightfully skeptical of the Clifton Merrit & CDC studies; these sites are advocacy sites, but nonetheless point out serious flaws with Merrit’s methods & the way the CDC compiled its stats (do read the Ohio Supreme Court decision cited in the “About CDC Bite Stats” article; it’s very interesting):
http://www.nopitbullbans.com/about-cdc-bite-stats/
http://stopbsl.com/fortherecord/scientific-studies/
I could list literally dozens of other sites with similar counter-arguments, backed up by facts from dog experts & animal behaviorists, but that would take more time (and you probably wouldn’t want to spend so much time reading them) than I have. Arthur Murray wrote an incredibly bizarre, hateful book called “The Bell Courve” a few years back, which appeared to use many, many “scientific” studies to back up its premise. It was debunked by true geneticists as a contextually-skewed load of tripe. I think the same can be said of the Merritt study; the CDC one is just sloppy.
Again, responsible dog ownership = your dog is under your control at all times. Not roaming the streets, not mauling children, not attacking other dogs. Why should all dog owners, the majority of whom are responsible, be punished for the actions of a small, irresponsible minority? If the same dog is seen roaming the street and hanging out in your driveway when you come home, that is an issue you need to take up with the owner, police, and /or animal control.
Nellie belle, my comment was written before I saw yours about your Jack Russell. It wasn’t meant for you. I was referring to DecaturMom’s comment about (presumably big ones) getting out of their yards. Typically the “dangerous breeds” are more easily contained and tend not to burrow or climb. I’m sorry to hear about your dog.
Oh I know!! I was just pointing out that we need to talk to our neighbors or call animal control when we see loose pets- they really are craftier than we imagine!
My heart goes out to that poor man. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to have one of my dogs attacked and then also be attacked trying to help my dog. Horrible.
After watching the video, what sickens me is that the attack happened close to the Decatur First Methodist Pre-School and Kindergarten where children and parents are coming and going in the mornings and in the afternoon until about 1:00 o’clock. Also, the Rec center playground and Decatur Presbyterian pre-school and Kindergarten are in close proximity. On the lower level of the library parking lot, I recently encountered a petite female dog owner unloading three dogs on leashes to walk in downtown Decatur. Two of them were large pit bull mixes. The Rec center playground was full of children. One large dog can be a challenge for a small woman to control, not to mention three.
My reincarnation will be Pit Bull
I will live in Decatur
Mommies will fear me
Hipsters will feed me
It’s good to be the King
I know I shouldn’t find this hilarious, but I do…thanks for the lightening up, Bullseye!