CSD Provides Greater Detail on Reasons to Extend the School Day
Decatur Metro | March 4, 2011CSD’s Communications Director Bruce Roaden was good enough to respond to me, answering two of your main questions from the other thread in more detail.
One, why precisely is the school day being extended? And two, how will this time be used potentially? He also includes a few other facts to consider. Without further ado…
Principals and Instructional personnel have felt for some time now that there is not enough time in the school day for elementary students. For example, after consulting 40 or more elementary schools in Metro Atlanta, we discovered that 6.5 hours (the school day for our K-3 students) is the shortest day for elementary students in Metro Atlanta.
Also, City Schools of Decatur is one of a very few remaining (if not the only) school district in the state that has a second language taught to our elementary students every school day. Another important issue that many members of our community have brought to the attention of the Superintendent and the Board of Education is the issue of wanting more unstructured breaks (recess) for students. It is very difficult to add this kind of activity without extending the length of the school day.
If it is decided to extend the school day, there will no increase in the personnel budget.
This decision is not based on the fact that we use DeKalb County School buses. DeKalb has given us our own fleet of buses to use, so we are not tied to the start and end times of DeKalb’s schools.
We appreciate the input we’re getting on this issue from your blog as well as emails and phone calls. Naturally, the Superintendent and her staff will consider this feedback and continue to look into this issue in order to make decisions that are in the best interest of all students and their families.
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I would love an explanation about why the extra time must be added in the morning instead of the afternoon. Anyone heard a response on that one that makes any kind of sense?
Traffic?
For so many years, the empty bus riding down the street has been our alarm clock, as I’m sure it is for many others. An antiquated problem which wastes taxpayer dollars.
Let’s look at a way to make bussing more productive and not wasteful. This would be a great opportunity for City of Decatur Schools to be on the forefront of being green. We’ve received, as a city, the rewards of being green. And we should continue. Find creative ways for bussing to REALLY work. Many folks who are too far away to walk to the 4 and 5 Academy will want to get a bus ride, but at a reasonable time, not an hour before school starts.
I would suggest a competition from Decatur High, GA Tech, or Emory students to come up with a solution. Possibly using alternative energy? Or a better walking/bike route? What about a shuttle system like Emory has its Clif Bus. This would be an opportunity for sponsorships as well.
I am looking forward to hearing more.
Atlanta Public Schools 8:00am – 2:30pm
Fulton County 7:40 – 2:20 or 2:25
But perhaps everyone has these “informal” start times. Our websites say 8:15 but of course we are all told to be in school and ready by 8am.
Also I am concerned that we feel we need to see recess as something to we need – this is a distracting argument that recess is extra or that Spanish Takes AWAY from other time. This is not a zero sum game. Spanish adds to all language arts. Recess used to be there – why do we have to add it back in?
I think I meant to say recess is something we need to “add”
Spanish and unstructured break time are good reasons. I hope that our BoE will consider making a formal commitment to providing at least 30 minutes of unstructured break time per day which can’t be taken away as a punishment. Otherwise I fear the intention to support recess will translate into less than a full commitment when push comes to shove and something inevitably has to give.
I believe committing to unstructured break time will go a long way toward alleviating the concerns of parents whose children come home exhausted. There are many supporting studies such as this one (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/123/2/431) in the journal Pediatric, which show a decrease in behavior problems and increase in attentiveness when teachers offer recess.
I’m also glad to hear there is flexibility on whether time is added on to the beginning or end of the day. As a parent who helps with 3 before school clubs: math, science, and chess… I am concerned what effect an earlier start time would have on club attendance.
However, I’m also of the mind that the change itself is the hardest part. Once over the hump, I’m sure an earlier start or a later pickup will become routine.
All that said, l encourage you all to come to next week’s Board Meeting and express your opinions during public comment. -Whether it is to start earlier, later, or no change at all. Please weigh in on what is important to you.
For me, the prime issues are a need for more recess and less homework. So I’m fine with lengthening the school day if that means the kids will get breaks every day. And I’d be even more on board, if the “routine” of homework for the sake of homework were discouraged.
With a commitment that the extra 30 minutes was devoted to recess -no exceptions (the teachers need the time anyway, esp. if they aren’t getting paid for the extra half hour)… and if CSD issued a policy regarding little or no homework in K-3 (several studies say that homework does not good at this age)…. I could live with the long day.
There is a big problem at GW with teachers taking recess away from the whole class when one or two students are bad. This is a terrible practice that needs to be changed asap.
My first grade son has a good hour of homework a night… ALL WORKSHEETS!!!! He often has more homework than my middle schooler. He used to love to learn and read, but now he hates it b/c of the homework load. I’m sure that’s not the intention of CSD. BTW, not all teachers assign so much homework.. they are outliers. However, they need to be reigned in a bit.
I feel that an earlier start time will make things worse; kids are by and large still tired in the mornings…making school start earlier will not be any benefit! How about adding 40 minutes to the end of the day, or starting school the 3rd Monday in August and running until 2nd week in June. Start school day at 8, end at 3:15. Problem solved!
Can you please become a CSD Board Member?? PLEASE!!!!! PRETTY PLEASE!!!! Because that would solve the problem.
While we’re changing things, can they move the Sept. break to the actual week of Labor Day as opposed to the week after. I’m just saying…
i don’t get this… maybe i’m missing something, but it seems to me that we’re adding 30 minutes to the SCHOOL day for play time?? ie…recess. Has anyone asked the teachers if they feel they need to add 30 minutes to their day? And if it is needed would the teachers think it would be more beneficial to add the time in the morning or the afternoon? Because the teachers are the people who are going to have to add 90 hours to their work schedule…without pay… with this proposal.
Adding time to the school day to provide for unstructured time is pretty well supported by research (and common sense), insofar as it provides young wiggly kids an opportunity to both work out their energy and figure out social dynamics. Both of these are highly useful, and a school day without unstructured breaks means that kids don’t have the social opportunity to negotiate games of their own devising. Active learning opportunities (moving math games, play-acting, etc) all get kids moving, but the action is still directed by an adult and doesn’t give kids the chance to establish rules and guidance of their own, which is what recess provides. If you don’t think kids are learning valuable lessons on the playground, I encourage you to go to one and watch the dynamics.
E, I agree we should ask our teachers. -That is why I sited a study based on teacher observations of over 10,000 students (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/123/2/431).
However, we should also keep in mind that when we raise the specter of pay based on performance on achievement testing, there is pressure to cut recess in order to provide more instruction. -Despite the fact that there is a body of research which indicates that the best way to improve performance in the classroom may be to take children out of it. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/health/24well.html).
There is also a subset of teachers and administrators which feel that restricting recess based on behavior is reasonable. Such an attitude sends the message that recess is an “extra” or a “bonus” instead of recognizing that it is a vital part of child development. It also embraces the use of negative reinforcement. Having endured a “spare the rod spoil the child” upbringing, I understand this perspective and sometimes find my upbringing hard to escape. -Even though I know for a fact that research on applied behavior analysis is overwhelmingly supports positive reinforcement.
Are the instructional personnel in Bruce’s response a reference to teachers or does it only refer to instructional coaches? Based on the earlier thread it sounds as though many teachers were caught off guard by this proposed change. Also are teachers really in favor of adding 30 more minutes on to the day? I can’t imagine that they are in favor of longer days….especially after getting there so early & often staying late into the afternoon. Also I have found that Spanish & art instruction integrate expedition topics into their curriculum so learning objectives are being reinforced throughout the day.
My guess is that it’s the instructional coaches otherwise the term “teachers” would probably have been used.
If teachers need more time to make sure instructional goals are met, why was our calendar
recently reformed to give us a week off every 6 weeks or so? If children have to be at school by
7:40, what time will they have to be at bus stops? If there are no personnel costs associated with
this, aren’t we asking elementary and high school teachers to work additional hours without pay. I, for one, do not feel that is acceptable. Finally, under no circumstance should breaks (recess) be eliminated. There is plenty of research and it is common sense that students learn better and are more productive when they have breaks during the day.
It is important to remember that our number of days is the same even with the new calendar. We didn’t add or take away days. That said, it would be important to determine if the new calendar with frequent breaks enhances instructional time or hinders it. If the regular cycling in and out puts additional pressure on the day, needing to complete units in shorter breaks, that might be an issue. Or if the new report card process has added constraints.
For me personally it is very, very important to hear from the teachers on this. Do they want more instructional time? What timing do they think would be best?
Teachers Please come Tuesday….
Like Garrett, if I could have guarantees of recess and a significant dialing back of homework, I’d say adding some time sounds possible.
I am wondering about the possibility of different timing for K vs 1-3? I know this is done in other states. I know this is difficult for parents with a child in K and another in the 1-3 block, the buses, aftercare etc. But I know this is done in other school systems.
Side note – Making administrative decisions in a vacuum w/o teacher and community support is the reason we have so many failing school systems around the country.
CSD has been able to avoid that plight because of the huge concentration of college educated parents who are active in each school. However, as we have seen time and time again, the Central Office operates as if they are the sole reason for the success of the schools. At some point the egos in that office will subside, the experimentation will cease and they will understand that a solid educational foundation will always work with qualified teachers & parapros, strong parental involvement and small classrooms.
That won’t happen with this group of folks. This sort of modus operandi is almost universal with government agencies who do not have to turn a profit or attract customers.
I deal with government for a living, and it’s just a completely different mindset from the private sector. There are folks in government who would be very, very effective in the private sector where everyone is scared for their very survival… but once they are plugged into the government system… it’s like invasion of the body snatchers… they just “change.”
Which is why parents and other taxpayers have to respectfully and kindly, but firmly and persistently, push forward our child-centered and quality-oriented agendas. It’s not because we distrust our educators but because we understand that there’s only so much RAM in the brain and time in the day. If the only pressures they feel are internal, bureaucratic, or from the State, as adaptive human beings, that’s what they will respond to naturally. As someone who has worked inside and outside of government at the local, state, and federal level, I know that external pressure must be exerted for balance and oversight.
This is a good conversation. I will make sure I’m at that meeting.
Lengthening the school day is a great idea, though for all the reasons mentioned above, starting early would have too many negative effects–moreso in CSD (with its fantastic level of parent involvement and participation in walking/biking programs) than in most districts, I’d wager.
I really hope they DO NOT do this! I teach Kindergarten in a private school. I know from experience that those babies are tired at 2:00! It is a stretch to get them to the end of the day! I can’t imagine adding 30 more minutes!
I personally feel we are pushing too hard! I don’t think 30 minutes is going to make that big a difference.
Please come speak at Tuesday’s school board meeting.
BTW, re the comment from Mr. Roaden that 6.5 hours is the “shortest” elementary school day in metro Atlanta. I’ve done a ton of research online and cannot for the life of me find an elementary school (other than Glennwood) that is in session for more than 6.5 hours a day. I’m sure they can be found somewhere, but it’s certainly not commonplace from what I can see.
Are you only comparing public schools? St. Thomas More (K-8th) is in session from 8am-3:15 (except on Wed, they have an early dismissal at 2.15). All grades report at 7:50am and class begins at 8 sharp! It does seem like a long day, especially when you send your Kindergartener for the first time, but the kids seems to adjust just fine.
Yes, I’m only comparing public schools since we are a public school system.
Perhaps it might be a fitting time to look at what successful private schools do… For once, I’m not trying to get anything started, just wondering what it is that private schools do differently than public schools that makes their success rate higher…? Is it longer/shorter days, recess…what?
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that they get to pick their students and remove students who disrupt the learning atmosphere or who can’t keep up. Second, the parents of their students are paying a pretty penny to have their kids attend so the parents are naturally very invested in the outcome. Third, families in private schools are customers… not “taxpayers.” If the school does not please the customers (families). the customers get to stop paying and leave…. and the school goes out of business in short order.
All this is very true and a reason that our family has never been tempted by the generic concept of private school. If only we could cherry pick our own children, parenting would be easy! I think the biggest long-term advantage of some private schools is that your child is attending school with the families of some of the current movers and shakers in business and the professions and that network may help them in the future. I like to think that CSD offers that too, the movers and shakers are just more our kind of people and not necessarily the heads of corporations or agencies or think tanks (but some of those exist in CSD too!).
But I do think that a few private schools have some instructional methods that CSD could easily implement with the main cost being the continued training and education of its already excellent teachers and enforcing implementation on the ground level. Some of those private schools are super-expensive, super-advanced technique schools for children with special needs, e.g. autism spectrum, highly gifted, dyslexia, other learning disorders, ADD or ADHD, all of which have a ton of overlap and a wide spectrum which actually includes many of our typical learners too–their parents and teachers just don’t realize it. But some more typical-instruction private schools, e.g. Woodward, are starting to offer some of that instruction as an adjunct for students who need it, during the school day so it’s not just one more tutoring class, one more thing that adds to student fatigue and resistance. (My guess is that it’s at additional cost too!) As I continue to read and learn about the new neuroscience of the learning brain, I am convinced that all of our children could better reach their potential–in fact maybe their potential is a lot higher than we realized–if only we could better use their time in school. But education, like any huge field and set of institutions, moves slowly while meanwhile our children’s brains grow quickly and soon it’s too late to easily change the learning trajectory. This is where private schools, even those that deal with the children who struggle the most, have an advantage IF they choose to use it–they can be lighter on their feet, less incumbered by massive mandates like NCLB, less hierarchical, less vulnerable to politics and the economy. But I wouldn’t pay the kind of tuition that these schools charge–from $10,000 to $40,000 per year depending on the type and prestige of the school–without being sure that the particular school provided the right fit and value-added for my child. That’s why I love Burble’s idea of looking at what successful private schools do and identifying those few strategies, curricula, techniques that CSD isn’t currently offering but would greatly benefit its students. The idea is take our exceptional teachers and give them tools to improve instruction and our children’s potential without adding to their workload or incurring long-term cost.
KIPP Academies “run from 7:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday and 8:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. on select Saturdays (usually twice a month), and middle school students also participate in a two- to three-week mandatory summer school, which includes extracurricular activities after school and on Saturdays. As a result, KIPP students spend approximately 60 percent more time in class than their peers.”, according to Wikipedia.
And I believe I’ve read that more than 80% of these kids from “under-resourced communities” go to college. Now, of course these aren’t elementary school kids, but still. Sorta interesting since many of us grew up in a culture that strongly defends down-time.
I just noticed that also on the agenda, besides the preK cutbacks and start-earlier items, is an RIF (reduction in force). This seems to me potentially more concerning than anything else we’ve been discussing even the hallowed homework issue. As much as I think there’s some quality of differentiated instruction issues that CSD badly needs to address on the ground level, I recognize that all bets are off if the same number of teachers and staff will be asked to do more. And I pray that CSD doesn’t have to do what happens in so many other industries–cut the lowest earning staff whose families are least likely to absorb the financial shock, least able to find alternative employment in this economy, and may have to turn to public assistance.
Any insights anyone?
Am I to understand that there is presently NO unstructured play in an entire day of school life for K-3 kids? If so (insert retraction here if there IS play time), I am continually amazed at how much seemingly short-sighted policy is in effect at our vaunted system. Raise your hand if any of you ever went to elementary school and didn’t play outside with no teachers telling you what to do. As the parent of a Pre-K student (and at daycare since age 1 before that) I already see the effects of over-managed children. Throw in play dates (ugh), parental hovering at playgrounds, and the litany of activities that de facto involve authority figures, and it seems likely that we’re headed towards the creation of a wonderfully adapted cohort of college graduates; as long as someone is standing nearby to watch over them and map out each and every step… I can see the T-shirts now: “Following directions is cool!”
Just got the letter from Dr. Edwards which was sent home today. Wondering what other folks think about it. I think I understand some of the factors at play a little bit better. However, I still do not want my child’s school day to be extended, and I really do not want school to start earlier. I suggest cutting out the morning assembly, and then using that time for recess. I wonder if she is hearing the frustration so many of us are feeling with regard to exhausted kids, homework every night (for kindergartners and first graders!), no free time, etc. It is really just becoming complete madness.