Trashy Thoughts
Decatur Metro | August 5, 2010Watch out Public Works. Andisheh’s brainstorming…
I love the concept and the result of Decatur’s pay-as-you-throw residential garbage system. I have some problems with the practice, however.
Of the three available garbage bag sizes, none fits the trash can in my kitchen. As a result, our household garbage typically gets disposed of in two bags – we take the plastic bag from the kitchen and dump it in one of the bigger Decatur bags.
It’s wasteful to double-bag garbage. I’m wondering if there isn’t a solution.
a) Maybe Decatur could expand its range of garbage bags to include the most popular sizes.
b) Better yet, Decatur could get out of the trash bag business and get into the trash bag stamp business. Let us use our own trash bags, but pay for their pickup by affixing stamps to them. We have an eight gallon can in our kitchen. How hard could it be to develop a system that lets residents purchase eight, 10, 13 or 35 gallon stamps to affix to bags or cans. Just sell the stamps in 10, five, two and one gallon denominations.
And if people want to stick with the current system, why not keep it, too.
I’m sure there’s a downside, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
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I would say the problem comes in enforcing the stamps.
counting them, and also determining what size the non standard bags are.
best solution to me seems to be to get a new trash can.
I like the simplicity but wonder if the city getting into the trash bag stamp business might provide enough incentive for folks to get into the Photoshop/laser printer counterfeit stamp business.
For better or worse, it’s a lot harder to fake a trash bag.
I really like the program, but the bags are pretty flimsy where the tie strings are concerned.
BTW, I remember a conspiracy theory a few years ago, when we stopped having to sort the recycling, that everything was heading to the same landfill as the trash bags. Please, someone say it’s just an urban legend.
It is an urban legend. Single stream recycling means you don’t have to sort!
Andisheh, I hate to be obvious, but can you just buy a new trash can? I replace mine every couple years…. but valid points on the bags regardless.
I’ve also been somewhat bummed at our practice of double bagging (decatur bags too flimsy). We actually for a long time haven’t lined our big garage can, but rather dump our smaller bagged garbage from the kitchen into the can, and on garbage day, just take one of the big blue Decatur bags and flip part on outside of can like a tail and then afix the lid. Maybe this is a step towards doing non-counterfitable “tags”? some kind of unsual material in big bright colors for easy spotting?
Obviously, one could buy a new trash can. It’s just kind of silly that it’s necessary. The most common kitchen garbage can size is 13 gallons. It’s probably the most common by an incredibly large margin. Yet the Decatur bags come in 8 and 15 gallon sizes. I can’t even imagine the reasoning that went into the decision to sell these size bags.
Really? I did not know that. That makes the bag size point even more valid….
The counterfeiting issue is obvious one, to me. There are easy tech solutions, but I don’t know if they’re affordable or practical. I’m not familiar with the trash pickup system’s administration to know what we can reasonably expect.
And for those who say I should buy a different trash can, um, no. We have a can that fits in its appointed slot in the kitchen.
I’m not suggesting Decatur remake its trash system for my needs. And I’m not complaining so much as I am suggesting a way to improve a system I already like. If you look at Decatur’s household garbage waste totals over the years, it’s clear this system works well at reducing trash volume.
However, if you go to Kroger or Target, have a look at the Glad and Hefty bag sizes they offer. Those sizes more accurately reflect what consumers actually use than the range Decatur sells. In the past 5-10 years, there have an expansion in the range of non-ugly trash cans available for purchse (the simple human brand, and it’s countless knockoffs). It’s hard for a municipality to respond to market changes quickly. That’s not a knock. It’s just a fact. One way around having to respond to consumer tastes in trash cans to develop a system that’s flexible (i.e. stamps).
I’m not saying it’s the best system, but it’s an obvious option to consider. After all, the post office doesn’t make you buy envelopes from them before they’ll pick up your mail.
No, I think you aren’t complaining. The real point is that the three sizes don’t fit standard cans. We usually get Simply Human cans and they work in those, so I was naive to the standard size thing.
I must have strange luck with this issue. I’ve purchase trash cans without a thought as to whether the bags would fit. The typical outdoor cans fit the blue bags perfectly and typical indoor cans fit the yellow bags perfectly, Small waste baskets fit the light blue bags. Never had a miss. I’m sure it’s possible but I don’t know where you can find a can that one these three bags don’t fit.
Home composting your organics (even a small container with red wigglers kept in the shade) helps cut down on the amount of solid waste being disposed. So essentially, this would considerably lessen the amount that goes into the trash bags in the first place–leading towards a cost savings because you’d buy less bags. PAYT acts as a utility bill in this sense-paying for what you use. After composting, maybe buying a smaller volume bag and the smaller volume trash can would work.
I know it doesn’t answer the odd size issue, but perhaps it’s one small solution in the right direction?
Also, the sticker option works well in some municipalities. Decatur chose to use one of the many methods of PAYT. EPA has a few listed on their PAYT site:
http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/tools/payt/top3.htm
I used to live in a community that had “pay as you throw” and they used stickers. Your trash bag had to have a sticker on it for the garbage to pick up.
As an aside, I noticed some of my neighbors putting trash out in plain black trash bags and their garbage was still picked up. Shame for people to take advantage of this system.
More of a shame that it was picked up. Trash bags left on the curb would have stopped that practice quickly, I would imagine.
We are moving inside the city limits in a few weeks and currently live in the county, it bugs me that the county doesn’t enforce it’s much more lax standards for garbage collection. You can put almost anything down by the curb, container or not, and they’ll throw it in the truck. And this is with two days a week of general trash pickup.
There’s no incentive to reduce waste.
The city trash guys do pick up trash in regular bags if it’s not put out frequently. When I have tenants move out, they sometimes put trash out in regular garbage bags. I’m very grateful, both as a homeowner and a neighbor, that they don’t let trash sit around. I think anyone deliberating trying to game the system will be in trouble with the trash guys.
BTW, I once organized a neighborhood breakfast on trash day for the sanitation guys. They loved it. Go ahead and steal the idea!
That’s really, really nice. I called the city recently and complimented the recycling guys because they are so sweet and they let my baby ooo and awwww over the trucks.
my kids and i have brought out cold drinks to both the sanitation and recycling workers on these hot, hot days…they always seem happy with such a simple gesture…
I wish I was as nice and thoughtful as you two
I don’t especially mind the system in general, but I DO mind that the bags we are required to buy and use are terrible quality and almost always tear.
I agree. The bag quality drives me nuts. I like the idea of stamps or tags. 3 sizes that can be eyeballed would be fine without getting to exacting. I would love to be able to use a decent trash bag again.
Here’s what we do: use the bag that’s a little too big for your kitchen trash can. Then when you are ready to empty it, put all the little trash bags from all the smaller cans around the house (bedroom, bathroom etc), in it to fill it up.
And I’m always surprised at the complaints about how flimsy the bags are. We fill them absolutely to the brim with heavy, wet diapers and never have had a problem.
This is exactly what we do. We love the 15 gal size it is just slightly oversized for my kitchen can but perfect in the sense that it never falls out of the can. My only problem occurs when I put something stinky in the trash early in the week and be the end of the week the trash really reaks. I hate taking a half filled bag out.
I like the pun in your last sentence…
A couple years back, some really unfortunate folks were dumping people’s trash on the curb and making off with their PAYT bags (to reuse them, I guess). If people will do that, they will surely remove a sticker from an unmarked bag. The yellow bags fit well enough in our 13 gallon can, and we follow Paula’s advice about filling them at the end.
I just drop off my normal-size trash bags in Lake Claire on the way in to work. JUST KIDDING.
This made me laugh aloud. (Yes, I know– I’m a bad person for laughing at blatant pollution.)
Thanks, cubalibre. It was total pollution. I do know better than to post such drivel, but I could not resist.
I hate hate hate the system. Granted, it’s mostly because I HAVE to use the Decatur bags (which are flimsy/easy to rip about 50-60% of the time) and have no choice in the matter. Everywhere else I’ve lived I could use whatever kind /brand of bags I want. Not having a choice in the matter is what irks me the most, however the quality control on the bags is horrid. At least half of the bags we buy (usually the yellow, even though it doesnt fit any of our trash cans and I’m to stubborn to buy new ones when I spent my money on them before I moved here) rip and tear. If a company and not the city government were doing this and not picking up certain bags because they didn’t like the brand they’d be out of business!
At the same time I realize the benefits, like Decatur sending less waste to landfills but it still irks me to no end.
Sometimes I see regular trash bags placed on the curb, and at the end of trash day they have been picked up. Makes me wonder why I spend so much money on the PAYT bags.
I agree with some of the other posters, maybe Andisheh can get a new trash can and use the current one to collect recyclables inside.
I agree with Andisheh–I simply can’t get the bags to fit in our kitchen can (the only one that fits in our kitchen) so we double bag and it drives me crazy!
That said, I’ve never had a tear in any Decatur bag. I think another size bag (larger mouth please) would be great.
Everytime I use the yellow bags, they tear.
Me too! The yellow comes the closest to fitting in my trash can, but I’ve taken to lining the inside of the yellow bag with a regular trash bag that won’t rip, which sucks because now I’m using twice as many trash bags. The consensus seems to be that the yellow ones are especially bad…I may try switching to the blue ones.
I wish it were pay as you throw. But it’s not, because there is a big annual sanitation fee on my tax bill each year.
That fee would be much higher without the bags.
Is that for the sewer & recycling part instead of solid waste?
No on the sewer. There is a storm water fee that is for exactly that, storm water. Sanitary sewer (that’s the technical term whether you like it or not) comes from the County and is in your water bill. Recycling is part of the waste management fee.
the yellow bags rip on a regular basis…
composting, that is just feeding the rats and inviting them to your yard…
we used to compost but had to stop……
If you have your compost in an inexpensive, home-made container, the rats cannot, and will not, get in. I have mine in a rubbermaid container with small vent holes in the locking lid. Works great! In the summer months, I even put it on my porch just to be sure it’s not in the sun.
Ha. Same problem here even with the hard, thick plastic compost barrel on my deck, which is a replacement for the big garbage can composter I’d been using, but that was decimated earlier this spring. I’ve not giving up the battle with the rats and raccoons for my scraps. In the latest round, I’ve up-armored my barrel with chicken wire. That’s been completely successful so far (no scraps have gone to critters), but they’re now gnawing at the edge of the exposed access hatch. I’ve got more work to do.
Rubbermaid? No way – that would be like cream cheese frosting for the creatures from my next door neighbor’s jungle sanctuary.
Wow. I stand corrected. I guess I just haven’t experienced these Decatur rats yet! So far, so good with my bin. Though, I do have it sitting inside a slightly larger bin to catch the compost ‘tea’ that drips out. Maybe that’s the answer?
Ah – compost tea moat. I like it
We had birdseed in thick sealed igloo coolers and rats managed to gnaw their way through about 2 inches of plastic wall, once in the garage and once in our basement. They won. We no longer keep birdseed on our property.
I moved to a town almost identical in size, demographics, etc to Decatur. We have our bagged trash picked up TWICE a week – and the garbage men get the trash from your back or side yard ( no hauling to the street ). Our taxes on our house are half what they were in Decatur. We also throw out the save volume of trash. Looking back, I think the Decatur system is absurd for the taxes home owners pay. Just sayin’.
But was the town’s school system run as inefficiently as CSD?
Sewer is in the county water bill. Recycling was supposed to reduce the amount CoD spent on landfill charges resulting in reduction of solid waste disposal cost.
There is a lump sum line item in the annual tax bill for solid waste sanitation, otherwise known as “pay as you throw” – I like the concept very much but it is not fully implemented.
If it is truly “pay as you throw” then there should be no line item charge in the tax bill.
Winnona Park Stud ocassionaly leaves yard trimmings on the curb which the sanitation workers take away. Perhaps there is a fee for this service?
As for people complaining about the trash bags, they are not a problem at the Stud house. The Studs bought extra blue recycling bins, and put all their trash in those bins. On pickup day, the Studs simply lay a few sheets of newspaper or a cardboard box on top of the blue bins, and have never had a problem.
As long as the yard trash is in the big paper bags, it’s taken a regular trash. The preference is to compost, of course.
Maybe the City could show the savings/discount from pay as your throw – like is shown for the homestead savings. That would make it more clear that residents are really saving money with pay as you throw, in addition to the betterment of the environment.
bought a pack of yellow ones from kroger last night, i get home take them out of the bag, and they fell out of the clear plastic bag onto the floor, the bag holding the bag ripped from the weight of the bags. awesome. i’m expecting half of these yellow ones to rip as usual!
so far every bag has ripped at the seam between the bag and the top part with the pull strap is.