Open Thread: Board of Ed Meeting
Decatur Metro | January 14, 2009 | 9:12 amThe AJC’s report from the last night’s Board of Education meeting is limited to detailing the $2 million in budget cuts – which were approved – but not a peep regarding reconfiguration. And since my entire staff decided that a healthy round of beer pong would be more fun than a board of ed meeting, I must ask you, not-so-gentle readers, to fill us in on what was discussed and voted on last night. And of course, next steps.
Thanks in advance!
OK, so here is what bugged me the most. Apparently CSD has hired a consultant to help them eliminate the achievement gap. This guy is in charge of holding meetings involving teachers and parents to talk about the gap and what can be done about it. He gave an endless speech last night before the board where he grandstanded .. saying pretty much the same thing over and over again – none of it was news to anyone. I wonder how much he charged CSD to give that speech?
I absolutely support eliminating the achievement gap, and I think we have made good progress but have a long way to go. However, when we are making budget cuts that involve getting rid of paras at Glennwood, getting rid of the alternative education program, cutting summer school funding and cutting professional learning it seems quite wasteful to be paying some schmo what is probably huge sums of cash to pontificate about the achievment gap.
I mean for crying out loud, we have a principal, an assistant superindendent and a superintendent with PhDs in education. We have principals and teachers who know these kids and who are highly trained to figure out what we need to do close the achivement gap. Can’t they hold the meetings and apply the training and knowledge that they have to close the achievement gap? Must we pay this blowhard who apparently does little more than talk and hold meetings at the expense of programs that actually make a difference? How many paras does this guy cost? How many hours in tutoring? How much summer school? How much teacher training? These kids need real time help from real teachers and administrators who know them as individuals and know what is keeping them from achieving. They do not need thousand and thousands of dollars spent on some guy to give speeches and hold meetings.
If we are going to close the achievement gap, we need action, not talk and constant “consultants.” We pay our administrators a lot of money and they are very highly educated and have extensive experience. Are they incapable of making hard decisions? If so, we need new ones. Must we pay someone every time a difficult issue comes up? Doesn’t that money belong in the classroom where it will have a direct effect on the achievement gap?
I was at the meeting until about 8:45 pm. We heard many intelligent parent caomments for an hour. As far as I can tell no one wants Renfroe to include 4-5 grades. And I agree. The concerns are about the mix of younger kids with older kids and that the Renfroe campus will be over 1000 students. The superintendent specifically said last night that she still wants to have a public information session (sounds like only one) and further community input. This would occur over the next 6-8 weeks because she wants a firm decision by the March meeting. But I have to say I felt like she was saying that she would be explaining how this reconfiguration plan would work – not that the community would be helping to decide on the reconfiguration. I can’t quite figure out what the Board voted on last night. It sounds like they voted to approve the 4-8 Renfroe configuration. Finally, I want to say that there were many concerned (angry) parents at the meeting last night. If they push this plan through, the Decatur community will be very upset.
I was at the meeting until about 8:45 pm. We heard many intelligent parent caomments for an hour. As far as I can tell no one wants Renfroe to include 4-5 grades. And I agree. The concerns are about the mix of younger kids with older kids and that the Renfroe campus will be over 1000 students. The superintendent specifically said last night that she still wants to have a public information session (sounds like only one) and further community input. This would occur over the next 6-8 weeks because she wants a firm decision by the March meeting. But I have to say I felt like she was saying that she would be explaining how this reconfiguration plan would work – not that the community would be helping to decide on the reconfiguration. I can’t quite figure out what the Board voted on last night. It sounds like they voted to approve the 4-8 Renfroe configuration. Finally, I want to say that there were many concerned (angry) parents at the meeting last night. If they push this plan through, the Decatur community will be very upset.
I was at the meeting until about 8:45 pm. We heard many intelligent parent caomments for an hour. As far as I can tell no one wants Renfroe to include 4-5 grades. And I agree. The concerns are about the mix of younger kids with older kids and that the Renfroe campus will be over 1000 students. The superintendent specifically said last night that she still wants to have a public information session (sounds like only one) and further community input. This would occur over the next 6-8 weeks because she wants a firm decision by the March meeting. But I have to say I felt like she was saying that she would be explaining how this reconfiguration plan would work – not that the community would be helping to decide on the reconfiguration. I can’t quite figure out what the Board voted on last night. It sounds like they voted to approve the 4-8 Renfroe configuration. Finally, I want to say that there were many concerned (angry) parents at the meeting last night. If they push this plan through, the Decatur community will be very upset.
I was at the meeting until about 8:45 pm. We heard many intelligent parent caomments for an hour. As far as I can tell no one wants Renfroe to include 4-5 grades. And I agree. The concerns are about the mix of younger kids with older kids and that the Renfroe campus will be over 1000 students. The superintendent specifically said last night that she still wants to have a public information session (sounds like only one) and further community input. This would occur over the next 6-8 weeks because she wants a firm decision by the March meeting. But I have to say I felt like she was saying that she would be explaining how this reconfiguration plan would work – not that the community would be helping to decide on the reconfiguration. I can’t quite figure out what the Board voted on last night. It sounds like they voted to approve the 4-8 Renfroe configuration. Finally, I want to say that there were many concerned (angry) parents at the meeting last night. If they push this plan through, the Decatur community will be very upset.
I was at the meeting until about 8:45 pm. We heard many intelligent parent caomments for an hour. As far as I can tell no one wants Renfroe to include 4-5 grades. And I agree. The concerns are about the mix of younger kids with older kids and that the Renfroe campus will be over 1000 students. The superintendent specifically said last night that she still wants to have a public information session (sounds like only one) and further community input. This would occur over the next 6-8 weeks because she wants a firm decision by the March meeting. But I have to say I felt like she was saying that she would be explaining how this reconfiguration plan would work – not that the community would be helping to decide on the reconfiguration. I can’t quite figure out what the Board voted on last night. It sounds like they voted to approve the 4-8 Renfroe configuration. Finally, I want to say that there were many concerned (angry) parents at the meeting last night. If they push this plan through, the Decatur community will be very upset.
Interesting that the consultant is the spouse of a Decatur principal.
Errrrr? Which principal, DF?
David has a very comprehensive report on the meeting over at InDecatur.
The AJC has also just posted a recap from last night regarding reconfiguration.
DecaturFan, that is a rich comment! Are you serious? Everything I hear like that just chips away at the trust I put in our Board and Superintendent (down to almost nothing at this point!).
I don’t have kids in the system but I have been following the dialogue.
I have to say , I don’t understand what is going on here. It seems Dr Edwards and BOE face harsh criticism regardless of what they do. A thankless job for sure. During the last reconfiguration dialogue- 4or 5 years ago – parents were very angry that the new plan would ruin the system and threatened to leave CSD if the board pushed the plan through over their objections.
Many parents extolled the virtues of wide age ranges because older children serve as role models for younger ones. They were emphatic that CSD should widen the age ranges for elementary rather than shorten it to K-3, 4-5, 6-8 . Some cited studies saying a K-8 , 9-12 configuration was the optimal model for system the size of CSD.
Now Dr Edwards wants a 4-8 school and parents are up in arms saying it is a terrible idea to put these grades together . What has changed in just a few years ? Where are all of those K-8 advocates now ? What about the older kids as role models for the younger ones ? What about all the current complaints about over crowding and the disgust at the idea of portable classrooms ?
I saw a clip on TV last night with a parent telling the board that people will leave the system if this reconfiguration happens. I bet you can go back 4 years and find an almost identical clip from a parent during the last reconfiguration public hearings – TV loves anger and threats.
Families did leave the system then but CSD did not fall apart. In fact this new plan is brought about because of over crowding. Obviously enough new families came to more than replace those who left.
How many people attended this meeting last night? If this reconfiguration happens will it really be “the Decatur community ” very upset or just a relatively small group of parents who don’t like Dr Edwards’ favored option? No matter what happens with this reconfiguration , some people will be unhappy.
Yep, looks like he is indeed the husband of Dr. Scott, Clairmont’s principal. Here is an article with a picture of them.
http://mann.spps.org/printview/Horace_Mann_School_Says_Good-Bye_To_Mr_Scott.html
So, we say good bye to Glennwood paras and pay Mr. Scott how much? He was an associate superintendent at a school district in St. Paul, MN. What about that makes him any more qualified than our own associate superintendent to lead these meetings?
I’m all for hiring consultants when we are flush with cash. However, here we are with school board members questioning whether CSD will even be around in the future and cutting programs designed to CLOSE THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP…. And we have the money to hire consultants to do things our own administrators should be qualified to do?
Things are getting way too cozy for my comfort.
Dearest Fifi,
The reason we have the overcrowding now is because no one paid attention to real demongraphics and actually did a head count — and from what I know they ignored parent pleas and true data of those numbers five years ago. (BTW, have you seen the number of young kids running around our parks — doesn’t need a consultant to figure this one out) In my opinion, the current config. of schools and the closing of Westchester, and turning Glennwood into a 4-5 academy have caused this mess. While I am actually a huge fan of K-8, with eighth graders acting as mentors to little kids, instead of scary drug dealers/sex secret tellers like they were portrayed in yesterday’s meeting — i can see no reason to build another property at Renfroe to house these kids. That is what I am against. Renfroe needs to be renovated — and that’s it! No more buildings!
And I do not feel sorry for Dr. Edwards and the school board. They keep on changing the game for parents, and we have to keep on our toes. Parents at that meeting were sooo sooo respectful to the board, and so polite, it was amazing. But they are pissed off. And they should be.
I’m with Cranky… Cranky for school board!
We should not be building anything more. The admins could save themselves a lof of grief if they could sit down, take a deep breath and quit imposing dramatic changes on families every single year. They bring it on themselves.
“The reason we have the overcrowding now is because no one paid attention to real demongraphics and actually did a head count”
I don’t think this is necessarily so, Sir Crankster. I believe the previous projections would have largely materialized had it not been for induced demand. When the reconfiguration took place, Oakhurst Elementary became an attractive option to families with kids and, with prices well below northside Decatur, Oakhurst then became an attractive neighborhood in which to raise a child. Especially for those previously priced out.
Lots of folks came to Oakhurst for that reason, which no trend-based projection would have seen coming. A blunder by the Board in not anticipating it? Maybe, but I don’t recall anyone in the community predicting it either.
Hi Scott,
Oakhurst was already booming before the redistricting, and the redistricting sealed the deal, making it more attractive to families, and of course, property values climbed even more, as I’m sure you’re aware. But the numbers were already there around the city before the changes five years ago. The city of Decatur has spent two decades building up downtown, the city schools of Decatur were always an attractive option for families who knew the secret of a small school system’s success. Like the current economic downfall, I guess it could be argued that the board didn’t see it coming, but all the information was there, if you looked in the right places.
I am with Scott. I did have children in the system during the last reconfiguration. We had some elementary schools overcrowded while others were way under full population. We were facing a new school year with 5th Ave school due to have only 75 students – not exactly cost effective. State class size mandates were lower at that time and there was no established process to shift students from one elementary district to another.
There was no standardization of curriculum among our various elementary schools and not enough emphasis on training new teachers. Based on the feedback I hear now , CSD is far better than what we had going on 6 or 7 years ago.
Scott is right about Oakhurst. In fact 6 or 7 years ago a group of parents got together to organize and brainstorm ways to convince families to send their children to Oakhurst . At that time many families in the Oakhurst chose private school. Real Estate agents can attest that families house hunting in Decatur often requested they see only houses in the Clairemont, Winnona and Westchester districts. Right or wrong , much of this attitude based on test standardized scores and racial demographic data. Since the last reorganization , these numbers are more balanced at the elementary schools and enrollment has increased accordingly.
Cranky, I wonder if you could address Scott’s point about not recalling any one bringing up the issue of an increase in Oakhurst rugrats prior to the redistricting.
This is where I get hung up on this issue. Like it or not, enrollment DID decline for 5 years prior to redistricting. This is data that the Board of Ed could not ignore at the time, otherwise you’d have the general population saying “Our numbers are declining and you’re planning for an expansion!? Why!?”
And did anyone bring this now well-recollected kid population boom issue up with the Board during the redistricting? If not, how would anyone know to look in “the right places”?
OK, you said in very nicely Fifi. I wasn’t about to bring up that racial thing, since we’re so PC here in Decatur. The board forced an issue that should have been addressed years ago. But we’re still overcrowded on this side of the tracks ….
Fifi, K-8 would never work in Decatur because there are no buildings big enough to house that kind of population, and I really can’t recall anyone advocating that 5 years ago. Most parents i know do not want big schools like that. However, K-5 is definitely doable (obviously, since that’s how it was before) and that’s what most ppl fought for.
4-8 is just silly.
“In fact 6 or 7 years ago a group of parents got together to organize and brainstorm ways to convince families to send their children to Oakhurst.”
Interesting side note: One member of this group that Fifi mentions is now one of our school board members. So revel in the irony: someone currently receiving “what do they know?” potshots here and elsewhere was formerly an everyday Decatur citizen who decided, rather than just complaining, to actually get involved and effect change.
That kind of commitment, I think, is why some folks here bristle when naysayers cast stones but don’t follow through with any action of their own.
Candidate Cranky duly noted as an exception to the rule.
Actually K-5 wasn’t working from a budget and staffing standpoint.
With K-5 we often had partial classes (classes below the state maximum) of the same grade in several different schools. There was no way to consolidate those students into a single class to cut cost without a problem of pulling students away from their home district.
A major benefit of the 4/5 structure is bringing all of the 4th and 5th grade students together in one place allowing CSD even out class size and keep personnel expense costs as low as possible . Consolidation also helps with services like special ed, counseling , art music and PE. If we go back to more K-5 schools , we lose this economy of scale .
True K-5 is what those who were fighting felt passionate about. In these situations the vocal people doing the fighting tend to be those against whatever is happening. I don’t think it follows though that K-5 is what the majority of all Decatur citizens favored given the situation at that time. Those who supported the changes had no reason to fight.
“Interesting side note: One member of this group that Fifi mentions is now one of our school board members. So revel in the irony: someone currently receiving “what do they know?” potshots here and elsewhere was formerly an everyday Decatur citizen who decided, rather than just complaining, to actually get involved and effect change.
That kind of commitment, I think, is why some folks here bristle when naysayers cast stones but don’t follow through with any action of their own.”
AHHH! Scott, I get so tired of hearing that comment: “if you’re so unhappy, then why don’t YOU run for the Board???”. That’s what you say when you can’t think of anything else to say. It’s a baseless and dumb comment. Not everyone can run for and be elected to the Board. That’s why we have a Board–to represent us. I can complain all I want as long as I’m also communicating my thoughts to the Board. We elect the Board members and then get involved and go to meetings and email and write letters and discuss with other community members. I prefer to be involved in that way because I can still have time for my young family, my full-time job, and volunteering in the schools. Being a Board member is not the only “action” I can follow through with.
Being a Board member would not automatically give me the power to effect the change that I want. Duh.
Jeez.
Uhhh, who said I was talking about you? What you describe is taking action. I was pretty specific that I was referring to people who don’t. How was that unclear?
I’ve seen it posted here several times about how the school population was declining when the prior reconfiguration took place but as a resident of Oakhurst at that time, it was obvious to anyone in the neighborhood that there was shift occurring and that the school district didn’t have their projections correct. When we moved into the neighborhood you would occasionally see people out for walks, then soon you started seeing a lot of people strolling around with dogs and then that evolved into seeing more and more couples out for walks with baby strollers (this all occurred prior to the last round of school reconfiguration). The population change was apparent to anyone who looked. The reconfiguration probably accelerated the process but it was already well underway before. And yes, we did participate in the roundtable discussions when the last reconfiguration took place.
Intrepid, you are absolutely correct. The whole city was moving in a direction of attracting more residents–many neighborhoods undergoing gentrification, and tons of new construction of both condos and homes. We said this over and over 5 years ago but Dr. E had her trusty blinders on.
SARCASM ALERT:
Dr. Edwards really needs to get her crystal ball repaired, as it clearly wasn’t working properly five years ago, eh?
YOU ARE NOW RETURNED TO THE REGULAR THREAD.
I’m new to this site and just find it very wrong that no one uses their real names. If you’re going to criticize, and in some cases almost slander someone, I think you should own up to it. Yes, our school officials are answerable to us, but they are people, too. If you’re going to talk behind their backs, at least have the guts to use your name.
Tracy….you can’t slander anyone unless you know their identity.
people seem to spend alot of time anonymously attacking others on blogs. I look at some of the blog posts on AJC (for example) and its incredible how negative people can be and how quickly they start swiping insults, etc. I reflect why there always seems to be wars in the world in this modern day. Obviously the war starts in the individuals mind and extends out to the family, community, world. Clearly from reviewing blogs, there are lots of individual wars going on within the human mind.
You can’t take anything personally, particularly from something that is coming from an anonymous source. [edited: no personal attacks allowed]
Looks like Rick is anonymously “swiping insults” at people who are venting on blogs. He is doing exactly what he is venting about. What kind of potato chips are you eating in the basement, Rick? I”m just teasing you.. I’m sure you aren’t a loser in a basement. But do you get my point?
It’s all so circular!
I see no problem with anonymous venting. I think it’s a good outlet for people that allows them to blow off some steam so that they don’t come out and scream at someone in person. Plus, if they have a crazy viewpoint, they get to vet it to see if maybe it’s not so crazy after all.
I also think it’s helpful to officials to get an idea for how folks really feel…. or at least to see the extremes of people’s opinions on an issue. If they get their feelings hurt, well, maybe they are too sensitive to be in a leadership position.
Blogs are popular because they are like reality TV for your computer. You get to sort of be a voyeur into the depths of people’s minds. In find it fascinating.
Rhonda is absolutely correct Rick. Part of your comment has been edited. That said, your observation about the AJC comments is absolutely correct. That’s what I’m trying to avoid with my moderation of comments.
Tarnation, I think that last comment could be taken as a personal attack against Dr. Edwards…plus it doesn’t do much except take a potshot at her. I’m not going to tolerate much more of that sort of stuff. If you have a criticism, spell it out so someone else can respond.
Tracey, slander isn’t allowed at this site. I try to keep up with it, but as you said in your post, some of this stuff is “almost slander”. Also, this isn’t behind anyone’s back. Anyone and everyone can read it.
Totally backwards, and that is my fault. My intention was that some folks on here were saying Dr. Edwards should have seen “it” coming ; my comment was a disagreement with that position. Our elected officials and others in positions of decision making are oft criticized for not being prescient. When I read my comment, I still feel it sounds like I was defending Dr. Edwards against those who expect her to have a “crystal ball”!
Sorry for any confusion.
Just wanted to post a thought that may apply to the Renfroe issue:
It seems that there is no shortage of school buildings in Decatur including Westchester (now offices) and the “Recreation Center” on Sycamore. On the surface, imo it appears that there is room for growth if these buildings can be utilized.
Yeah Taxus. I agree. We have resources that we can use; we are all for renewable energy, how about renewable buildings! But what I do want right now is for Renfroe to be renovated. It seems like we have spent a lot of resources on our elementary schools — and have ignored the middle school.
I want Renfroe to be renovated and the middle schoolers to get the attention and resources they so desparately need without having the 4-5 academy abutting the building. I want a good president. (At least I’ll get that … )
By the way, I’m really Dr. Edwards … just kidding, Tracy.
I have a hard time understanding this feeling that middles schoolers have been ignored. Those middle schoolers went to newly renovated elementary schools and after just 3 years at Renfroe they will head to DHS to use new science labs , athletic facilities ad performing arts space. Why do kids need brand new schools at every level. ?
Most students in public school in this country get along with facilities way worse than Renfroe for their entire school career. Students and teachers throughout the system – including those in middle school- benefit from additional funds donated to Decatur Education Foundation. Is it really fair to say things are desparate for CSD middle schoolers ?
I have paid Decatur taxes for more than 20 years. I have no children in the school system. I believe that good schools are vital to our community . That said, I am beginning to feel some Decatur parents are just never satisfied.
Cranky old timer, I could not agree with you more!
I have said it before, and was chastised for stating it, I don’t think that the money has been spread out evenly among the schools. Renfroe has been sorely neglected and the high school as well, until they built the way over the top stadium. Sports always seem to take priority, sad.
Fifi, i just don’t get the feeling that it’s the parents who are dissatisfied. My daughter is an 8th grader at RMS and so I know a lot of parents over there, and I’ve never heard a parent complaining that the facilities are not state-of-the-art “enough”. Now, my kid complains that the gym is abysmal and the bathrooms need some help, but that is not a $10 million makeover. I honestly just think Dr. E sees some imperative in having brand-spanking-new facilities about which she can brag. I agree with you–these kids are getting a great education and Mr. Roaden is top-notch in my book. The volunteers do a nice job of repainting and doing the landscaping. It’s not like we drop them at school, hope for the best, and “forget” to ask how the day went for them. Parents are milling in and out all the time over there and stay very involved, not just by being there but by emailing teachers and the principal, going to meetings, and talking to each other and our kids. I’ve never thought, “if only we had a nicer building…”
CSD Mom, you mention thinking that Dr. E wants brand-spanking new facilities about which she can brag. I’ve seen this general opinion expressed by others in other ways, such as “she wants what she wants and is going to get it,” and the like. I’m not saying this assessment is wrong or right. I don’t know.
My question is about motivations and incentives. Especially in this economy, I know people are motivated to keep their jobs. I also have to assume there are motivations to reach promised goals and achieve measurable results that validate their efficacy. Keeping the majority of stakeholders happy is likely motivating as well.
Other than the general category of ego/bragging rights, I’ve yet to hear anyone offer up any other suggested motivations for the actions of Dr. E or the board. Are bragging rights really a sufficient offset if they tank the system financially or incite massive discontent among parents or non-parenting taxpayers? Those kind of negative outcomes are typically how people get canned. How motivating is that?
Can anyone suggest other reasons for why Dr. E or the board would pursue such things if, as has been suggested here, they’re unpopular or even reckless? Thanks.
CSD Mom, have you ever had a personal dialogue w/ Dr. E? If not, I really suggest you try to and speak with her. IMO she is truly totally about aiding CSD and the kids to be the best. I do agree with you though about Mr. Roaden, he is the best! The middle school syndrome exists in all school systems, where parents are more involved at the elementary and high school levels, and often the system needs to be more attentive to the more vocal parents at those grade levels, so the middle schools get second fiddle. I think CSD does a decent job w/ Renfroe. fifi, I totally agree with your comments about some Decatur parents just never being satisfied. And for the comment about the sports stadium, DHS just got new science and band rooms, and redoing the stadium and gymnasium was WAY overdo! The previous facilites were disgusting, inadequate and embarassing, and playing games at the Rec and having assemblies in the cafeteria is not something that should happen in a top notch high school like ours.
Rebecca and Scott:
AMEN!