Superintendent: Annexation Would Require Building Another School or Campus Expansion
Decatur Metro | January 31, 2014 | 12:45 pmFrom the county-by-county section of Friday’s AJC…
Decatur Schools Superintendent Phyllis Edwards said that given the city’s renewed focus on annexation, “It looks to me we’ll have to build another school or build on an existing campus.”
Last spring Decatur schools projected that total enrollment would swell to over 6,000 by 2018, but Edwards admitted those numbers are now outdated.
Neither annexation nor the city’s at least five planned mixed-use developments figured into those original projections.
Edwards added the only existing campus with room to build is Winnona Park Elementary. Bill Banks for the AJC
DM, i think this post should be tabled until next year when we’ve had enough time to truly consider its implications—wouldn’t want anyone to make a premature judgment.
My question is what is the size of our municipal debt — including the redevelopment, housing and schools portions? Is it comparable to other cities our size and are the repayment obligations sustainable?
i find no pleasure in saying it almost doesn’t matter what our municipal debt is—we’ve got a gun to our heads. there will likely be some +/- 15% discussion on how nice the construction will be, but the bulk of the spend is a necessity.
You’re probably correct, Rick. I recall hearing that Decatur had no municipal debt until about 2006 … and now I think we have over $50 million, maybe more? That’s quite a spending spree to come out on the other side without enough school facilities!
I don’t see how that can be. The conference center attached to the Marriott is owned by the city and the bond for that was just paid off in the last few years.
I know, it seems unreal, huh? Beacon Hill alone is over $30 million.
There was $16.5 million referendum for various projects — parks, fire stations, rec center. Then another $17 million or so (no referendum) to finish those projects. Then Beacon Hill (no referendum). Plus some retroactive deal to pay for City Hall renovation. So yes the City has been on a spending spree. I’ve lost track of the total.
Good digging over at Decaturish:
http://www.decaturish.com/2014/02/decaturs-debt-city-owes-154-2-million/
It’s a shocking number considering we’re being told we don’t have enough educational facilities.
We’ve got kind of a catch-22 here with the annexation situation. While it would increase the commercial tax base, something this residential-heavy town needs, it would come with immediate costs – mainly additional school building and operations, and additional fire stations and operations.
But if the mixed-use developments, and/or the existing enrollment trends are already going to require new school investment, then we might as well pursue annexation.
Bottom line, with our without annexation, our taxes are going to go WAY up in the next few years as the school system absorbs all of this growth. Get ready for it.
Question: I’m making an extremely loose estimate that a 100-unit downtown residence would contribute $350,000-$400,000 in school taxes each year. Are you assuming such buildings would result in 30 or more kids, making them roughly tax-negative? Because I don’t think any of our current downtown projects come anywhere close to that.
Granted, my math’s all made up. Do you have numbers that make you look at our mixed-use developments as a negative in regards to our schools?
Isn’t the problem that we don’t have a place to put new kids, whether there be 5 or 30 or 100 or 500? Even if a building or area is revenue-neutral or even revenue-positive, that only refers to the per student cost of instruction, transportation, supplies, overhead etc., not the cost of building a new building because there’s no more room in CSD. And even if we have the funding to build the building, on what land? And when will the funding be available, the land obtained, and the building built? Annexation or new residences bring new students who need to be housed somewhere immediately, not in 3-5 years.
I’m not trying to argue for or against downtown development or annexation, just saying that the impact on CSD is not simple and not just a matter of the % of residents with school-age children. Even a low percentage can yield an absolute number of children that are hard to fit into CSD’s current physical space, no matter how much taxes the building/area generates.
That may be the issue, but I gotta wonder. In 1960, our population was 10% higher than it is now. Plus, family size was typically larger. Where did we put all the kids then?
Was it a legal class size thing? I wonder if CSD has any publicly accessible historical enrollment data going back that far?
Don’t know about CSD in particular but there was a time when class sizes were horrendous in Georgia. That’s why class size limits were set by the Governor back in the late 1990s/early 2000s.
Also don’t know about 1960 but once desegregation hit public schools, many white families sent their children to private school.
Maybe the higher populations worked because we had redundant schools to accommodate black/white?
Forgot about that. That would explain how all those students fit too. My understanding is that CSD enrollment declined a lot after desegregation. Then, in the late 1970s, certain neighborhoods decided to start sending their children to public school again, e.g. Westchester and Great Lakes areas. Ms. Kuebler, former Westchester principal, remember that, when she started in CSD, Westchester students were majority black and there weren’t many neighborhood white children. I have always had the sense that Winnona Park never stopped sending their children to WP Elementary, maybe because of the progressive influence of Columbia Seminary and Agnes Scott where many residents taught or studied, but don’t know that for sure.
I think that is at least part of it, Scott. I’ve heard that when the HS de-segged in 1969(?) it was bursting at the seems. Then, of course, many white folks fled because they wanted no part of de-seg and the enrollment problems faded fast. This is a story I’ve been told, so it could be an oversimplification or off by a degree or more.
So the solution is clear: CSD must orchestrate some sort of activity that outrages or offends, say, 20% of the population and sends them screaming for the hills. Perhaps leasing out the DHS field house as a Sarah Palin Campaign Headquarters with mandatory student participation would work.
I just saved everyone 60 million dollars. You’re welcome.
Wonder how much more upset people would have to get, compared to the drama that sweeps through on a regular basis already?
lol
If CSD was anything like the Dekalb schools nearby, white flight really kicked in during the early 80s. That’s when the balances tipped.
I’ve puzzled over that too, Scott. THe best answer I found was class size, plus we now have a lot of “extras” that are now accepted as part of a quality public education. It’s like wondering (as I do daily) how in the world people in the 1930s could live with closets this small!
Armoires, cedar chests for off season storage, and attics (before all the roofs were popped up for extra bedrooms).
Or how they could make it through the year without a “mid-winter break” shortly after winter break.
They didn’t have as many clothes to fill closets. Most pre 1930 clothes were custom made, either at home or professionally.
Scott,
Just to clarify, I should probably separate two things – one is the existing enrollment growth trend within the current borders and built environment. This is the basis of CSD’s enrollment committee estimations, and the driver of the bond referendum for expansion of RMS and DHS.
The other variable is the change in city borders via annexation, combined with significant changes to residential capacity via potential downtown mixed use development. These two factors are difficult to predict, so they are largely left out of the enrollment projections.
Dr. Edwards’ point is that this second set of variables cannot be adequately met by expansion of existing facilities, and so they would require one/many net new schools to be built. I believe her comment is meant to communicate that there are huge upfront costs to annexation and/or residential capacity growth.
It’s not just the immediate costs, since the demographics will change in these areas to match the boom going on inside the city limits now. All projections for various annexation maps I’ve seen show the red ink growing for the foreseeable future. I don’t see a catch-22. Annexation makes a very difficult situation for CSD very much worse.
Of course that means I’m afraid you are right that we have a major financial crunch coming. Some hard decisions await.
“our taxes are going to go WAY up in the next few years as the school system absorbs all of this growth”
Would have to come from increased values, right? Isn’t the City already close to the state cap on rates?
Ahhhhhh, CSD: The Beast That Helped Build Decatur set to become The Beast That Will Help Break Decatur. Stay tuned!
Can’t we take a page from heavy industry and start having the students attend school in shifts? (this is not a reference to either Gibbet’s dress nor his character, DM)
What a disaster that would be. That’s an option for communities with few other options. I do hope you were joking. Back in the last century, in another state, the local public school had to do this. Platooning they called it. Ugh!!! Some students had to go to school from 6-12; others attended 12-6. Nobody would like that.
Sorry – I was getting a bit loopy (no pun intended) this afternoon – was meant as a joke…
The only EXISTING ELEMENTARY campus with room to build is WP. Westchester, when it opens, also has space. And there is expansion room at Decatur High School. If we annex the unincorporated area between Decatur and Avondale, there is a charter school — the Museum School — in there. Buying it, of course, would be complicated, and probably not possible. Heck, while I’m buying nearby public schools without permission, let’s buy Fernbank Elementary!!!
If the City annexed Midway Woods all the way to Memorial, they would annex themselves the recently-damaged-by-fire Hooper Alexander ES, which DeKalb isn’t using any more.
Just sayin.
The Decatur Lil Smokies for a mascot.
That space behind Westchester is in a flood plain. Maybe you can build there, but the development costs would be substantial. Besides, you would upset all the environmentalists if you did that.
Isn’t there a ton of land at the old DeVry campus? I know some is destined for a new VA facility.
Isn’t that privately owned?
Why not just expand the school system to include Avondale Estates? I like to say people with kids are moving to Decatur so they can have their own publicly-funded private school system with sidewalks. AE folks fought for the Museum School, so it wouldn’t go willingly. If you take it, you take Midway and Avondale, too. I like the quirkyness of AE, but it wouldn’t be skin off my nose if the two cities merged, and took in more unincorporated area to boot. A way to complete with the Briarcliffs and Brookhavens of the world.
+1
MOOCs.
Had to look that one up–Massive Open Online Courses. Good for students with Aspberger’s Syndrome, not so good for students with ADD/ADHD Syndrome, both of which have increased greatly in the student population.
Actually, MOOC’s are only good for students who are very self-motivated and don’t require a lot of instructional support. That doesn’t describe very many typical el/hi students.
if you made them Minecraft MOOCs, my son would learn calculus before he reaches Renfroe
Or put them on You Tube or made them into Vines.
I know they all take Spanish but … Touché AHID
Decaturish is reporting that unincorporated portion of the Parkwood neighborhood (19 partial parcels and 57 full parcels) is asking to be annexed at the next commissioners meeting. Also noticed on that feb 3 meeting agenda that 7 properties on Conway are asking in. That’s a lot.
There are more than a few in that stretch that want nothing to do with Decatur. They like Fernbank and use the savings on city taxes to pay for private school after 5th grade or they (gasp) put their kids through the Druid Hills schools and they are just fine.
doesn’t matter. according to the petition the parkwood group has the required 60 percent of voters’ signatures requirement for annexation. It is up to decatur now.
Let’s annex the Fernbank portion of Druid Hills as soon as they finish renovating the elementary school. Its playground directly abuts the City line along the railroad.
And if we annex Medlock, we get a school there too.
ICS currently has the old Medlock Elementary. Plus, if a city annexes a school that was paid for with county dollars, the city must pay the county for the school. It’s not quite as simple as “we annexed it, now it’s ours”.
And what exactly do you think should happen to the 700 students that currently attend Fernbank? Will CSD welcome them and their families with open arms?
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Speaking as a Fernbank parent to CSD parents:
Keep your hands to yourself. If it’s not yours don’t touch it. Keep your eyes on your own paper.
We all tell these things to our kids every day. Please, let’s remember them as adults. You can’t just take someone else’s school building to avoid having to build your own.
I don’t think that anyone is seriously suggesting that Decatur take Fernbank away from DeKalb County.
Ok, let me rephrase then. To our neighbors in CoD… If it was indeed meant as a joke, please don’t repeat it. To us, it is really not funny. Not neighborly at all. Thanks!
Excuse me for my ignorance on this annexation stuff, but what would happen to the kids who go to the school being annexed?
For anyone that has been following the planned RMS and DHS renos you already know CSD plans to completely re-vamp those campuses with new buildings and extra floors (including rooms for 4/5 at RMS – something they slid in on the down low). How difficult will it be to add another floor and go for a 3 story middle and high school. Regarding room at the K-3s, don’t forget the two most hated words for Decatur parents “learning cottages”. At this point we are the only system in the metro area that doesn’t have them all over the place.
I don’t think that trailers should be a long-term thing, but my son was in the trailers at Oakhurst for 2 years, 1st and 3rd grade, and it was just fine. No reason to freak at the prospect of putting a few back in.
I did not see any evidence of “rooms for 4/5 at RMS – something they slid in on the down low”. That’s kind of a bold accusation – can you provide more info?
There’s a stigma attached to trailers, I guess, but a few teachers (not CSD) I’ve talked to liked teaching in them because they had more control over the climate.