Decatur Likely to Review Open Spaces Smoking Ordinance This Year
Decatur Metro | May 29, 2012Based on an article in the AJC late last week reporting on the gaining popularity of government smoking bans around metro Atlanta, I inquired to City Manager Peggy Merriss about Decatur’s current smoking ordinance as it applies to city-owned open spaces. Here is her reply…
Smoking is banned at all built City facilities. We have not amended the ordinance or issued administrative regulations to have it apply to open spaces such as City parks but it is likely we will be reviewing that issue this year. In January, 2013 outdoor dining areas associated with restaurants that have an alcoholic beverage license will have to be smoke free. There have also been some very preliminary discussions about designating other open public areas, such as the Square and MARTA Plaza as smoke free.
Should be an interesting conversation.
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Must have missed the Jan. 2013 date change for the smoking ban for outdoor dining places. Thought that was supposed to start Oct. 2012. Or am I confused. Again.
It is confusing, but I believe the new regulation is tied to your alcohol license renewal date, so it will not be until Jan 2013 until everyone must be in compliance.
I’m still a little confused, however, as to what will consist of an “outdoor dining area.” Is it just the public sidewalks (like on the Square) or will it also include patios on private property?
Just the public sidewalks. Someone would be able to smoke in the patio at Java Monkey, but not the one table on the sidewalk next to Mingei World Arts. Smoking goes away at Ted’s, the Chocolate Bar, Brick Store, Mac McGee’s, Kavarna, Mojo, Mezcalito’s, etc. but would still be legal at U-Joint, Raging Burrito, and Taco Mac. Unfortunately, people will still be able to smoke at Starbuck’s, Jimmy John’s and Dancing Goat’s sidewalk tables, since they don’t serve alcohol. Here’s hoping the City will extend the ordinance to all the businesses.
I tend to agree with you FM Fats.
++1. Now let the ‘nanny state’ comments begin.
I also hope that the city outlaws profanity, ugly people and those passing gas in public places.
agree; they’re all known carcinogens as well.
What makes U-Joint, et. al any different from the rest? They all have outdoor dining areas AND alcohol licenses. And it’s my understanding that there is already a ban on smoking within 15 feet of a public sidewalk. Did I miss something there?
that’s where I was confused as well, Pete. I think NEW food places will or now have the 15′ rule in effect as soon as they open, but existing establishments have until next January? or this October?
U-Joint’s patio is on the U-Joint’s property. There are no tables on the sidewalk. People will be able to smoke in its smoking area. Kavarna, Mojo, Mezcalito’s, and probably Steinbeck’s will have to ban smoking from their outdoor tables when they next have to renew their licenses, because their tables are on the sidewalk. Should Pinewood Tippling Room put a table outside, it would have a smoking ban right away, because it has a new liquor license.
Appreciate the clarification,FM. It does make me wonder, though, if customers of similar, nearby establishments will eventually pressure places like U-Joint to conform — even if they don’t have to.
Doubtful. All of the smokers will flock to U-Joint as it will be the only place in town they can smoke. So, most of their customers will be smokers or people who will tolerate the smoke to dine there. Those who won’t tolerate the smoke will start frequenting the many recently smoke-free establishments.
Twain’s has an outdoor patio with smoking.
Sorry, but I’m fairly certain that the 15′ ban will apply whether tables are on the sidewalk or not. What sense would it make to have a 15′ ban otherwise?
Update: Found this link that explains it. New restaurants comply immediately, and existing restaurants in October. And there’s a 5-foot limit, so if a patio is 5 feet away from the sidewalk, people can’t smoke on it (Sorry, UJ, et. al). Check out (f) and (g) and the last ordinance:
http://library.municode.com/HTML/12110/level3/PTIIICOOR_CH6ALBE_ARTIINGE.html#PTIIICOOR_CH6ALBE_ARTIINGE_S6-22COSAPUPRPASASITAPLPE
Not to belabor but the five foot measure seems to be a table’s distance from the sidewalk rather than the patio’s distance. So it only appears to affect the outer edge of tables at UJ (at best) — the tables known as the “dog tables” anytime the health department gets overzealous about animals. Or am I still missing something?
You’re right, but how can they enforce that? Seems it will have to be all or nothing. I mean, someone could simply hold their cigarette arm towards the building to get it to be at least 5 feet away, but still be sitting at a table next to the sidewalk.
“Smoking is prohibited at tables included in a sidewalk table plan permit area and within five feet of any such area boundary. ”
Sooner or later they’ll prohibit it on patios anyway, so we’re really just picking peas and getting ahead of ourselves.
From what I recall from the Commission mtg, the restaurants themselves are expected to enforce this. I believe that technically it also means you can’t smoke while walking past, with in the “boundary”, but I’m not sure that’s really enforceable.
“Smoking is prohibited at tables included in a sidewalk table plan permit area and within five feet of any such area boundary. ”
UJ doesn’t have a sidewalk table plan permit as its outside seating is on private property and not public right of way, so I don’t think the 5 foot rule is applicable. I read the ordinance to mean that you can’t smoke within five feet of sidewalk table areas. It does not state that you can’t smoke within five feet of any sidewalk.
Neat!
Boooooooooo, I use smoke as a kid-repellant.
SERIOUSLY not trying to beat a dead horse, but I need to point out that Ms. Merriss is quoted above as saying this:
“In January, 2013 outdoor dining areas associated with restaurants that have an alcoholic beverage license will have to be smoke free.”
Perhaps some new ordinance on its way? In my mind, that would mean the whole sidewalk/5-feet issues become moot next year.
Pete, she provided this clarification, which may help…
“My answer was not clear in that the sidewalk table plan permit is necessary when an establishment wants to locate tables on city-owned rights-of-way. Smoking will not be allowed in an area requiring a sidewalk table plan permit. Tables located on private property or on decks or open areas located on private property are not required to have a sidewalk table plan permit. In those cases, smoking is regulated as described in the City’s “Clean Air” ordinance, which does not generally prohibit smoking in open areas.
The requirements for a sidewalk table plan permit apply to renewal licenses beginning October 1, 2012 in terms of submitting a sidewalk table plan. The sidewalk table permit and subsequent no smoking regulation will be effective with the annual license renewal date which is January 1, 2013. This gives applicants time to get their sidewalk table plan permitted and make the transition.
We will be sending out a letter to all establishments that have a current alcoholic beverage license for the retail sale on premises explaining the ordinance requirements by July 1, 2012 so that they will have time to establish their plan before we send out alcoholic beverage license renewal forms.”
I’ve never been a cigarette smoker, but this whole freakin’ discussion makes me want a butt more than anything in the world.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that smokers cost the country $96 billion a year in direct health care costs, and an additional $97 billion a year in lost productivity.
And I’ll bet that doesn’t even include the collective time and energy spent participating in this type of discussion.
The CDC figures don’t take into account either the taxes collected from smokers or the fact that they die, on average, 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.
Several studies, at least one of which I know of in the United States, show that the costs of care during those “extra” years for nonsmokers outweighs the costs of healthcare for smokers.
That being said, I watched a close relative die of non-smoking related lung cancer, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. It’s a terrible way to die, and I encourage anyone who smokes to meet at least one cancer patient before they decide to continue smoking.