Decatur City Commission to Vote on Sunday Alcohol Sales This Coming Monday
Decatur Metro | May 14, 2011Linda Harris writes on The Decatur Minute that the City Commission will “consider whether to adopt a resolution calling for a referendum on November 8, 2011 on whether to allow package sales by retailers of malt beverages, wine and distilled spirits on Sunday.”
If approved by the November referendum, retail beverage outlets like Kroger, Sherlock and Ale Yeah! will be able to sell their spirituous wares on Sundays.
Also note that the city has posted the question of Sunday sales on the city’s Open City Hall feedback forum. Submit your opinion there until 3pm on Monday and it’s considered an “official” comment to the commission. With 39 responses thus far, the opinion – not surprisingly seems a near unanimous “Yes!” thus far.
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Umm…. yes.
Looks like it’s running about 47-1. The one no vote concerns itself with restaurant tax revenues…which with Decatur as a destination shopping decision rather than simply a need-based one actually is reverse from reality. A Sunday sipper at BSP or Twain’s gets to stop at Sherlock’s or Ale Yeah! for a sixer of what they tried at lunch? You double up rather than reduce.
I saw the remark about restaurant tax revenue also. That doesn’t compute because Decatur doesn’t get any sales tax revenue from any business, at least until the whole HOST thing with the county is settled. Decatur does get business license revenue, but that’s the same with or without Sunday sales – the restaurant is still there. Ditto for any alcohol license revenue – the establishment pays that anyway. The poster needs to explain what revenue would be lost – I can’t see any.
Why are y’all making this so ridiculously complicated? It is supposed to be a free country. I should be able to buy anything I want to buy on any day of the freaking week as long as someone is willing to sell it to me, as long as this doesn’t infringe on any one else’s rights. If a restaurant can’t handle the competition it must be a pretty bad restaurant and needs to go under. I want to be able to buy hooch on Sunday and I’m sick (and tired) of the imperial federal (and state) government telling me what I can and cannot do.
Heh? What’s so complicated about any of this?
Looks like most of you are forgetting the overlooked 11th commandment:
If thou shall imbibe on the sabbath, thou shalt do so only at a place of public congregation, or at home, but only if thou has purchased spiritous liquours the day before. An
+1
J., you should NOT be able to buy whatever you want, whenever you want. Alcohol is a deadly, highly-addictive drug –no better than cocaine or heroin is out of their mind (and it is FAR worse for fetuses than either of those drugs). Cultures have built up justifications for imbibing and addiction, but the business man who cant get along without his daily martini is as much of a junkie as the crackhead in the gutter.
Alcohol will always be legal in most of the US, and selling it on Sunday will only make for drunker drinkers. It’s legal in most situations, so drink up, y’all.
Are you drunk?
Preach it, Brother Al!!! Ignore Chad and all the other heathen liberals around here who really just don’t know what’s good for them. And don’t try to reason or rationalize with them either. They will never understand your superior intellect and all the studies I’m sure you can point to regarding the effects of alcohol versus heroin and cocaine.
However, I’d really appreciate it if you’d come over to my house for a few days and tell me exactly what to do and what not to do. But make it quick so that we can laugh at all the lost souls next Sunday when we are the only ones to survive the Rapture!
While I’m not defending Al’s argument, I am questioning your assumption that he is speaking from a religious perspective. He is talking about addiction, not religion or politics.
Of course it is about religion; but since it is not acceptable to frame a political argument (especially in Decatur) purely in terms of “the sanctity of the Christian Sabbath,” you get people saying odd things like “alcohol is worse than cocaine and heroin.” Who would care about banning ONLY Sunday sales except for fundamentalist Christians? And perhaps more importantly: what do you gain by pretending not to see that this is the case?
See my 9:06 a.m. response to J_T below.
So, because he may have lost a family member to addiction, he is advocating for a ban on Sunday sales in grocery stores? I would suggest that advocating for more public treatment clinics and public awareness of support for alcoholic rehabilitation programs would be what most people would do. Unless, of course, their true motive is to kee the Christian Sabbath free from what they consider to be sinful activity.
Not to provoke the discussion too much (and as someone who does ingest alcohol and wants Sunday sales to pass), but Al does have a point. It’s just we’ve chosen it to be societally acceptable, unlike cocaine or heroin, etc. According to the World Health Organization, alcohol is responsible for 2.5 million deaths each year.
Alcohol leads to more deaths in this country than any of the illegal drugs mentioned (because of more use, of course). And speaking of legal drugs–in the lab, nicotine is as addictive as heroin, and more than alcohol, cocaine, or morphine. So we have decided societally that nicotine and alcohol are okay, but others are not (partially historical and economic reasons). I’m not promoting leaglizaing these other drugs, as someone who has treated people with problems from all of these–including alcohol–too many times, but just trying to make a point.
And maybe Al is a troll, but doesn’t mean there isn’t some truth to the comment. Again, I’m not at all for prohibition–since I’d miss my craft beers & wines–but to automatically dismiss what he was saying as being from a religious crazy seems a little hasty.
It is true that alcohol and nicotine can be addictive substances, and that they can cause injury. This is why we tax cigarettes and alcohol: because they produce negative externalities that suck up extra resources. But banning Sunday sales (um, why that day?… Why not Tuesday?…) because of purely health-related reasons is so strange that we should stop and think for a minute. Banning sales ONLY in grocery and package stores for the Christian Sabbath… And, by the way, the only group organizing in support of the ban is a fundamentalist Christian group with deep pockets. Again, this is not a health issue. It is not an economic issue. If it were, these folks would be lobbying for an outright ban or an extra tax. But they just want to keep you fromm drinking on the Christian Sabbath. There may be reasons to do something about alcohol, but this particular crusade is just that… A religious fight.
To clear one thing up, he’s not a troll (aka someone who stops here once, drops a bomb and leaves – never to be heard from again).
“Alcohol leads to more deaths in this country than any of the illegal drugs mentioned (because of more use, of course).”
Of course. In that case, are there any stats that demonstrate the number of users vs. deaths?
(data from CDC website primarily, though sadly not all of it is exactly comparable, since different drugs have different data provided)
Alcohol use: in last 30 days, 52% of US age 12+ population.
Alcohol related deaths yearly: in 2001 75,766 deaths, 3rd leading “preventable” behind tobacco and obesity.
Cocaine use: in last year, 4.8 million in US. 1/4 of US ages 26-34 has tried
Stimulant related deaths: 15,000 yearly (including cocaine, Meth, etc; though cocaine use is 4:1 more than Meth)
Heroin use: 213,000 users (age 12+) in the last 30 days.
Accidental drug overdose deaths (main cause of death from heroin): 22,400 yearly, of which 51% are narcotics total (though prescription narcotics are the biggest growing part of that), so much <10,000 yearly from heroin.
Tobacco use: 23% adult men, 18% adult women.
Tobacco related deaths: 443,000 yearly, still most common "preventable" cause of death
—
I don't think you can compare alcohol use vs. death percentages to others since those being illegal makes it more likely those using it are more likely to abuse it, and some who would use it occasionally (like many do with alcohol) won't do them since they are illegal. Even if alcohol is less of a % risk than cocaine or heroin, alcohol is related to more deaths in this country than all the illegal drugs combined (and tobacco dwarfs all others, of course).
Again… I agree, why limit on Sunday in particular, and I don't want to limit alcohol or legalize other drugs, just saying that it is true that alcohol is a massive problem in our country and cause of death, so don't automatically dismiss all discussions about it.
Wow, thanks for these mcmillend. OK, so the alcohol death rate seems lower than cocaine and heroin death rates, though the stats aren’t perfect.
Also, does “alcohol related deaths” include car accidents? I’m wondering about how “car culture” plays a role with alcohol….
That’s true DTR. Just because he’s an intolerant [*just gonna proactively edit what I was about to call him to save DM the trouble*] who thinks he knows better than everyone else what’s good for everyone else does not necessarily mean he’s a religious, intolerant [*proactive edit again*] who thinks he knows better than everyone else what’s good for everyone else. But, come on, you’ve got to admit that the odds probably were in my favor in making that assumption…
Again, I’m not defending his position. I think we should be given the opportunity to vote on it, and I sincerely hope it passes. I would like to purchase my Newcastle on Sunday.
In response to your last statement… I honestly did not read any political or religious intent in Al’s post. I simply read someone who is concerned about addiction.
And speaking of intolerance, don’t you think you might be practicing a bit of this yourself? Maybe Al dealt with addiction. Or lost a family member to addiction. He obviously feels strongly about this. So rather than ridicule and insults, despite your proactive editing, wouldn’t it be more tolerant to ask him for more perspective on his stance?
Was I practicing a bit of intolerance myself? No. I’d say it’s more like a lack of sympathy and maybe being a bit quick to respond emotionally rather than rationally. Of those sins, I’ve often been accused of being guilty.
I think Brennan B above nicely summarized why I assumed a “Christian” agenda. As I admitted, I could be wrong. If he’s got another reason for his viewpoint, he’s free to share it.
To Al, I do apologize for mocking you, which is admittedly what I was doing. Obviously, neither of is going to change the other’s opinion on this subject and Token is correct, it doesn’t do any good to devolve into personal attacks.
Good Lord, are you all so stinkin’ drunk you can’t buy enough alcohol on Saturday to last you until Monday…? If you can’t sober up enough to plan that far in advance, maybe it wouldn’t hurt you to take a day off…
There is that ridiculous statement again! Surprised it took so long…
Silly Walrus, these people really don’t expect to be taken seriously, so the best thing to do is to take them seriously. Try this approach:
——————————————————————
Hatetohonk: Good Lord, are you all so stinkin’ drunk you can’t buy enough alcohol on Saturday to last you until Monday…?
Walrus: Yes!
Hatetohonk: If you can’t sober up enough to plan that far in advance, maybe it wouldn’t hurt you to take a day off…
Walrus: *Burp*!
Well, gosh, that’s a strong argument. You certainly put me in my place…
Ok, I feel generous and will help you out. Have you considered that it could be the complete opposite situation than the one you present? Maybe we don’t drink much at all so we don’t think about buying in advance. Maybe we do our shopping on Sunday and that’s when we think about it. Maybe it’s irritating when we realize that we have to make a special trip on another day to get some beer. Maybe we are having last minute guests over for dinner and would like to get a bottle of wine. Maybe I have decided to make short ribs and would love to have some stout to braise them in. Maybe I just feel like buying a six pack on Sunday solely because in a free society, I should be able to purchase goods from someone who wants to sell them to me, whenever the hell I want. Was that helpful?
No doubt you are a most gracious host, Walrus. And God forbid you should ever, ever be unable to get whatever the hell you want whenever the hell you want it.
Please stop, that is nonsense. No one is asking to be able to get “whatever” they want “whenever” they want it. Here the issue is purchasing a legal product at retail on a day when it is already available at a pub or at your house if you bought it the day before. Perhaps you have some reason why it matters that I can’t buy a beer at Publix on Sunday but can but as many as I care to at a bar. But you haven’t bothered to mention it.
Well, gosh, that’s a strong argument. You certainly put [The Walrus] in [its] place…
Glad you see it my way, hatetohonk.
“you can’t buy enough alcohol on Saturday to last you until Monday”
Why is this the only scenario you propose?
Perhaps someone got invited to an impromptu event, and had nothing on hand to take. Or invited a few friends over for the game, and more people showed than expected.
It doesn’t really matter what the reason is though honestly. There’s really no logical reason to stifle consumer options on Sundays, for something that’s perfectly legal every other day of the week.
But if you believe that you have one, please do share.
I think the word you all are struggling for is “troll.”
The question is “Who is John Galt?”
The answer is “Who cares?”
John Galt is akin to Harry Potter, Gandalf and Ahab. Pure fiction.
Not to mention the Wizard, of Oz.
Repeat of a favorite bumper sticker:
It’s your Hell, you burn in it.
So as usual, we have some who are opposed to Sunday sales, who resent the assumption theirs is a faith-based argument but at the same time refuse to offer up an alternative rationale. (Sorry, the public health issue doesn’t play unless it includes an explanation for differentiating between Sunday and every other day of the week.)
S.S.D.D.
I think we’ve all been punked. Hatetohonk may actually have a reason why we shouldn’t be allowed to buy demon alcohol on Sunday, but I’ll bet he actually Lovestohonk…
OK, end thread……
sorry, spilled my drink in my keyboard…
You ridiculed someone above for not having a convincing argument, that was opposing to yours. But you still haven’t really expressed what your opposition is to Sunday sales. Though you have provided plenty of snark, it didn’t address your reasoning, just that you seem to be discontent with consumers having more options on Sundays.
Perhaps you missed my question earlier, or just ignored it, but I’m curious as to why you feel the way do? What exactly is behind your opposition to Sunday sales?
So can we assume that the estimated $250,000 cost* for holding a referendum before November will be covered by tax revenue that will undoubtedly be generated by the surge of Sunday shoppers…? (Admittedly a small drop in the $2.5million county deficit bucket…)
It’ll be put on the November ballot and there’s no cost to add it, according to the City Manager.