Decatur’s Food Cart Conundrum
Decatur Metro | February 21, 2011
From the AJC’s recent article about Atlanta food carts and the obstacles they face around the metro…
And while free-standing restaurants such Taqueria de Sol operate food trucks of their own, most truck operators have been careful not to tread on the turf of dining establishments, Smith said.
Lyn Menne, Decatur’s assistant city manager for community and economic development, said that has been one of her concerns as the DeKalb County city weighs whether food trucks would be an asset in the commercial district.
“We don’t want to create businesses that compete with our existing restaurants,” Menne said. “We also have very limited spaces where these could actually park.”
In related news, John Kessler reports that Fulton County shut down both El Burro Pollo and Atlanta Fry Guy food trucks in Poncey-Highlands on Saturday for preparing their food on the street. King of Pops was not closed down (because his food isn’t prepared on-site).
My one-and-only food cart pic from my trip to Portland, OR last summer
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This is an interesting topic. On one hand, I think it would be neat to have this kind of service, but, on the other hand, I understand the need to support existing business, but on the other hand (I have 3), competition is always good. I wonder how many Decaturites would eat food from a cart (how many are nervous about it?). Is there a market for it? I’d say yes for the courthouse crowd and even high school crowd, for what those are “worth.”
Count me as one who would eat from a cart. Ever had a hot dog from NYC street cart? Mmmmmmm.
Yes, there’s a market for it. You can pick the person in the cart preparing your food in front of you, or you can pick someone hidden in the back of a kitchen preparing your food for you. It doesn’t make me nervous to buy food from carts at a festival in, say, Piedmont Park — so why would it bother me to buy food from a cart on a Decatur street?
Yes- I forgot about food vendors at festivals! I eat at those (and did this weekend). I’d like to see authentic tacos (did I just hear a groan?) or something really unexpected that you can eat while walking. I’m up for it!
Decatur restaurants pay property taxes (directly if owner occupied; indirectly, through rents), state sales taxes, city occupancy taxes, city personal property taxes, county personal property taxes, and a variety of employment taxes. They are required to provide bathrooms. Their businesses do not result in litter flying around the streets.
Food trucks would pay some of these taxes, but they would have to be subjected to some kind of additional use tax in order to balance everything else out. (Such as a porta-potty tax, a pollution tax, a litter tax, a street use tax.) Then there might be fair competition.
What kind of food trucks would you like to see? We have quite a bit of variety here in Decatur, but there’s always more that could be offered.
From time to time I have seen Chik-Fil-A wrappers on the ground in Decatur, along with Starbucks cups and Napkins. It must have been a figment of my imagination.
As someone who used to eat food out of hand push carts in NYC and unmarked vans in Los Angeles, yes I would buy from them as long as the food was what I wanted, where I wanted. Mobile food carts/trucks serve a very different need from sit-down food establishments. You grab food from them when you are on the go and have no time for menu, wait, order, wait, eat, wait, check, pay. Carts on the square would compete with Chick Fil A, the old Quiznos, McDonalds, I’m not sure about Pita Palace. Not so much places like Sweet Melissa’s, Decatur Diner, Sage, Raging Burrito, Johnny’s Pizza, Sammiches.
Sage has been closed for a couple of years now. However, if they had only known that food carts might be coming, they could have blamed them for the failure of the restaurant too!
(Sage very loudly complained about the MARTA plaza construction ruining their business, although, with the exception of Birdi’s who probably closed for other reasons as well, every other business on that side of the Square survived, and most are still in business today)
Not so. Pasta Please closed as did Saba. I’ll bet that owners would say that the construction played a role in the closings — maybe not the only or biggest role, but a significant one.
Plus, keep in mind that restaurant owners also were facing planned development on the lot between the restaurants and Eddie’s Attic, which would have complicated deliveries.
I feel bad that the owners sunk money into those spots, planning that construction would soon end/start but it went on and on and on and on or stalled. Hard to plan to spend more money, get more customers, improve offerings, etc. when you don’t know what will happen next.
Gosh, it seems like Iberian Pig, Square Pub, and Mac McGees seem to be thriving under such “conditions.”
Gosh, I don’t believe any of those restaurants existed during the period of MARTA construction you mentioned in your earlier post so I don’t get your point.
Why are we even talking about MARTA construction in a column about food carts?
Bring on the food carts!! Park them in the lot between the restaurants and Eddie’s Attic — facing the (new) courthouse. YUM!
i would eat at the food trucks! i think they’d be very popular with the lunch crowd at the very least. Decaturites seem to follow food trends & food trucks are uber trendy right now – we need to jump on the national bandwagon before it is too passe!
PLEASE look to Portland Oregon. They have food trucks all over their downtown that “compete” with restaurants and such ….. could be a great example of how to do it correctly.
This development post-dates my time in Portland but I concur that we should look to how Portland does it now because they an excellent model of a downtown. And I might add that they figured out how to handle the problem of panhandling (btw mostly young white males with drug/alcohol/mental health issues when I was there) in a way that evidently hasn’t destroyed their reputation as a progressive community.
Put a bird on it!
Oh, how I wish there was a “like” button for these comments.
Your comment made me spit Diet Rite all over my keyboard!
I’ve added my one-and-only pic of the food carts from my trip to Portland last summer to the post above. It’s fuzzy, but it at least shows how packed that area was.
That said, I’m not sure Decatur has the critical mass to pull off more than a couple good food carts.
It’s one thing for a city to step in and say we don’t have room for food carts, they’ll jam traffic, cause a public nuisance, etc. But to keep them out so as to prevent additional competition for existing local business is totally illegitimate. The city has no business protecting an existing restaurant from a new one. And of course, the new one will succeed only if people like the food and buy it. In that case, everyone wins but the restaurant with the inferior food. That’s how it is supposed to work.
I must also differ with Ms. Menne in that permitting a food cart to operate is most certainly NOT “creating” a business. By that logic, the City “created” Decatur First Bank and Taco Mac. perhaps she just misspoke, but I always recoil at suggestions that government “creates” anything by permitting consenting adults to engage in commerce.
That last sentence sounded sort of dirty.
Get your mind out of the gutter already!
The best thing about commerce is the money shot.
I see your point, in theory.
However, the reality of the situation is that a very large part of Decatur’s economy is reliant on its restaurants. And as Dave pointed out, food carts don’t pay property taxes. So if you suddenly allow food carts and they start having an adverse affect on existing restaurants, then Decatur’s got a serious problem. If we were a dense, downtown, with a more diverse tax base – like Portland – then I think everyone would be more open to food carts. But we’re already over-reliant on residential property taxes, and if our commercial took that kind of hit, it would get even worse.
The city hasn’t said they’re against food carts. They’re just wary about them. And I think there’s pretty good reason to be so.
Okay, DM. Maybe here’s a proper disagreement.
Economic development isn’t built around a particular restaurant, or even type of restaurant. It’s about developing a scene that can serve as a unique draw. Taken in that sense, who’s to say street vendors wouldn’t build on the desirability of the scene, bringing even more customers to town? As others have said, take-out street dining doesn’t compete much with sit-down down dining. It’s a different animal with different appeal.
Which is all to say that the idea of existing business “taking a hit” is pretty subjective at this point. The city’s efforts at economic development should not be in protectionism but in cultivating something that collectively sets us apart and makes a trip to Decatur better than a trip somewhere else. Not discounting the need to manage traffic issues and whatnot, I think “wariness” is the wrong posture. If the market is demanding something like this, and it can be regulated to be safe, the city’s position should be “how?”
Eh, unfortunately I wasn’t married to my position. More playing devil’s advocate than anything else. And I’m generally inclined to believe that more competition is better than less. Also, that Decatur should look to excel in ANY area that Atlanta and other surrounding municipalities keep messing up.
But if anyone actually wants to make this happen, they better do more than comment here, because both the commercial property owners and many of the businesses owners’ gut reaction will be to oppose it.
Picture 3 food trucks on each of the turn-ins to the square for lunch service M-F. Their food is good, promptly prepared, and designed for portability (and under $5).
Suppose you own a restaurant on the square, how do you like the prospect of having 6 new competitors (hopefully only 1 or 2 sticking around on any given evening), all with lower overhead?
Suppose you own a storefront on the square that’s occupied by a restaurant….
I have to agree with DEM (maybe for once).
I don’t think it is the City’s place to protect existing businesses by preventing competition for certain types of businesses.
I, for one, don’t think that food carts will compete against established sit down restaurants any more than vending machines compete against convenience stores and/or grocery stores.
I say let competition flourish. The more likely scenario is that if a particular food cart really, really does well and takes off, the owner of that cart is going to likely open up a storefront because they can do more business there and make more $$$. I think that is what happened with Hector Santiago’s food cart experiment, which led to Super Pan Sandwich Shop.
In that case, it would be a net win for Decatur. Not to mention how we would even further cement our reputation as a foodie paradise throughout the region (vs the current attitude of the City of Atlanta/Fulton County) – bringing even more diners to our town to eat in our restaurants and shop in our stores.
Food carts allow chefs and business owners to experiment with new concepts and try things they might otherwise not be able to do in an established restaurant, with the high overhead costs that come with that. Future restaurant owners can get their start without as much start up cash as with a traditional restaurant. And if it works out, could be the next restaurant owners in Decatur!
I say let them cook!
Just once? You’ll come around eventually!
AND, food carts in general seem to offer foods that the restaurants do not offer, e.g., giant pretzels with hot cheese dip, clam chowder on a wintery day, cold melon slices in summer, etc. I ate at such a food cart on one of the San Juan Islands and really loved the food they served. Sure beats a vending machine!
Food Cart owners won’t install bike racks!
Agree with Marshall, that food carts won’t compete with sitdown restaurants. People who are in the mood for this food will have an option. On any given day, they won’t necessarily be the same people who are eating indoors. I think this will encourage commerce in Decatur, not take away from it.
Y’all,
Restaurants in Decatur rock. We should allow food carts to increase competition and make them even better. If they can’t compete they will leave, and a better idea will sprout. I personally think if the city wants to get into “creating” businesses they should offer subsidised space for artists and researchers to collaborate and create something truly unique in our fare city.
Who said they had to be accommodated on the square? What about Oakhurst or Glenlake Park or church parking lots or any number of ways we could encourage new models without compromising our larger goals?
Cut and dried protectionism is no way to gain an economic advantage.
Scott, you have confused me. Are you suggesting Decatur permit food trucks outside of an exclusion zone or zones? Please suggest a definition of who would get the protection of an exclusion zone and who would not.
Why limit it to food? Why not clothing, insurance, credit cards, cell phones, jewelry, auto parts, useless knick knacks?
Trade in non-food items should be welcome too — they sell lots of interesting and desirable things from carts near Five Points MARTA station, for example. If people want to invest in carts and work in that venue, what’s your objection (if any)?
I was pointing out the foolishness of a partial government supported monopoly by limiting the street vendors to food.
Here’s a thought: the existing “sitdown” restaurants can put carts of their own, with modified menus. This will inevitably create more business for thei establishments (that is, if the food is good)!!!
After reading through the comments, that was my thought too. Maybe all food carts should have to be run or at least licensed by a ‘bricks and mortar’ restaurant? That could address the tax and lower overhead argument. Zucca could sell pizza slices, TDS could sell tacos, King of Pops and pretzel/cotton candy/lemonade-type vendors could contract with other local restaurants for a license…
Have no idea if that would really work.
I do like the idea of a food truck set-up at the major parks. Would love to have a snack option at McCoy pool in the summer!
It would not be fair to entrepreneurial cart vendors to restrict those allowed to “bricks and mortar” restaurants! Why don’t you think market competition would take care of the situation? If the B&M restaurants are that scared of competition from food carts, they sound pretty shaky to begin with. If I want B&M food, I know where to go already…
There seems to be a general assumption here that food carts are most likely to compete with the restaurants in and around downtown Decatur/the square. If I was a food cart operator, that’d be the LAST place I’d go. Rather, I’d set up shop in an area where there are limited takeout food offerings or only chain fast food places. That just makes sense.
And that’s why I think the extreme prejudice against food carts is a bit exclusionary and classist. Food carts make it easy to bring quality, locally-owned (at least, within the city of Atlanta, if not necessarily that particular neighborhood) food options to areas of the town that provide few such offerings. They’re a quick and easy way to fill a niche. Or at least they would be if the city would be more accommodating.
Agree!
Which is why the best solution is to place food carts in the right hand lanes of Clairmont Road. Residents have been complaining about speeding traffic so why not kill two birds with one stone. We can provide scrumptious dining options and create a more pedestrian, bicycle, and neighbor friendly road all in one shot. And it won’t even require a dime in government funding, much less a few hundred thousand. Don’t mind the fact that this could create a dangerous driving conditions for those minions who use that archaic form of transportation. We’ll come up with a creative paint job and all will be well. For those of you who abhor this idea you just better hope the next mayor doesn’t live on Clairmont and read this blog.
Park one in front of McDonalds….Please!