With Medlock Likely to Close, are Decatur’s Northern Residents Now Open to Annexation?
Decatur Metro | February 20, 2011
Almost two years ago to the day, residents living north of Decatur’s borders were sharing their new found neighborly relationships with the AJC, stemmed from their new common enemy – Decatur.
Decatur’s vast annexation plan of 2007-2008, initiated in an effort to off-set the residential tax burden by bringing more commercial property inside Decatur, looked to grow the city limits to the north and east. While many neighbors on the southeastern edge of the city openly hoped for annexation, the voices on the north-side were almost unanimously opposed. (The AJC article linked above cites a survey where only 14 of 200 area residents were in favor of being annexed into the city of Decatur.)
But now two years later, the landscape has shifted. DeKalb County Schools looks destined to close the neighborhood’s elementary school, Medlock, and murmurs indicate that some of those same northern neighbors may now be a bit more open to Decatur’s higher taxes in exchange for it’s coveted school system.
But even if northern residents are more amenable to the idea, there are still other substantial hurdles to overcome. Back in 2008, the other major opponents to the Decatur’s large-scale annexation plan were many of the city’s current residents. Two in particular, Judd Owen and Pat Herold, uncovered calculation errors in how the school system’s contractor estimated increased school enrollment. All attempts at revised estimated enrollments were much higher than the original assumptions, throwing the whole process into turmoil, as it was generally thought that any added commercial property tax, wasn’t enough to offset the cost of school enrollment increases.
So here we are in early 2011 – the year in which the City Manager recommended that the City Commission revisit this annexation question – and it looks like the playing field has changed a bit. The major challenge for the city – if it still wishes to pursue this – will be to craft an annexation area that has more than enough commercial property tax to offset any student populations around it. And since nearly all of the unincorporated commercial property the city has eyed in the past is to the north/northeast of the city limits, a more supportive northern population could be just what the pro-annexation faction ordered.
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My neighborhood, Forrest Hills, needs to be considered, also. We have been redistricted into Bethune Middle, Towers High, and Knollwood Elementary. If we were in Medlock’s situation, we would be very happy. Our small area with Avondale on the East, part of Decatur on the west, Columbia on the south, and Forrest Hills Elementary to our north is in a truly sad situation. We would be thrilled to be in Druid Hills High School and Shamrock. It is my understanding that Towers has the one of the highest rates of police action of any highschool in the Dekalb County. To even make it more unfair, Avondale has been redistricted into Druid Hills and Shamrock. If any of you would pull up the map of redistricting of this area, you will see that Derrydown has been gerrymandered into Druid Hills and Shamrock. To be honest with you, I feel like we have been singled out because we had a large group of people who were working on reclaiming Forrest Hills Elementary before it was closed down. People made a lot of noise at the school board meetings. I am a teacher in Dekalb myself teaching ESOL in a high population of ESOL students. I have torn down walls, redone the kitchen,etc. and have about a 3/4 acre lot. I couldn’t be happier with my house. In fact, the whole neighborhood is comprised of remodeled homes. I refuse to be treated by Dekalb in this way. I will move to Decatur if we are not annexed by Decatur or if in the final vote we are redistricted into Knollwood, Bethune, and Towers. I have large dogs and cannot afford the kind of home i have now in Decatur and will have to move into a townhome. But, i refuse to be have the county so totally disregard my neighborhood. We are mostly college educated teachers, counselors, ministers, social workers, artists, etc. I am very very sad at what mght happen to us. I know that there are many people in Decatur who do not want us, but it is very disheartening to hear that Medlock people would be welcomed and not us. The large apartment so many were concerned has been sold, will be torn down and at some future date will be redeveloped into single family housing. Please forgive my going on about this but I just need to let people know how it is in Forrest Hills.
Nothing in the above post says Decatur citzens are now more open to annexation of the Medlock area. It is instead pointing out that the Medlock area residents may now be more interested in being annexed now that their school district situation has changed. In my strategic planning round table group , the majority of participants were very cautious of any and all annexation plans.
I feel for the residents of Forrest Hills but these issues are financial not personal. It isn’t about wanting certain people and not wanting others. It is about which areas make the most financial and logistical sense for possible annexation. The Medlock area is coveted by Decatur city officials not because of the people but because of Suburban Plaza and the tax revenue that could come from that commercial property especially if it were re-developed to include both commercial and residential property.
Fifi, when I posted this I did understand that we have no commercial property to add to the mix. But, I felt the need to at least express the situation to people who would listen, as Dekalb County could care less.
I also want to add that I am the person that adopted the little black boxer, Mattie, and she is doing well.
Suburban Plaza would bring in revenue? It seems to have lots of empty space and frequent business turnover. The only stability seems to be Suburban Lanes and Hancock Fabrics. I have always been shocked that a place with so much potential and such a good location is so dismal as a shopping center. I shop at Emory Commons and its neighboring strips much more even though I’m just as close to Suburban.
The value of Suburban Plaza as an annexation site isn’t in its current use. The reason it’s not heavily maintained or overhauled is because it’s being land-banked til some future date when conditions are right for redevelopment.
One of those conditions might be the still alive and kickin’ MARTA proposal that would bring light rail from Emory, past Suburban Plaza and down to the Avondale rail station. If that was ever built (or even locked-in), Suburban Plaza would immediately surface as a prime, high density transit node.
Property tax revenue comes in whether or not the space is occupied. It’s paid by the owners, not the lessees.
Decatur should consider annexing the Walmart along with Forrest Hills. Lots of tax revenue to be had there. Or is that part of Avondale?
You must have missed the big flap a few years ago about whether or not Avondale should annex the Wal-Mart property.
I also think Forrest Hills is pretty divided on the annexation issue, regardless of the viewpoint of Decatur residents. I know of several households in FH that like the services they get from Dekalb (no schools needed) and would be hard hit to pay Decatur taxes. They bought outside Decatur city limits intentionally.
It does all come down to money, on both sides of the street.
can you provide a link to the map? my eyes are quite good enough to read it that small.
http://decaturite.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/annexation-map.png
JEM, our schools are already packed to the gills. Soon even Renfroe and Decatur High will be overcrowded. Our school system budget has been slashed year after year because of state reductions. CSD can’t afford Forrest Hills b/c it’s virtually all residential. It has nothing to do with not wanting y’all because of who you are or aren’t… it’s strictly a money issue.
MrFixit,
I understand it is a financial issue and the fact that the schools in Decatur are growing. I guess our only hope is that Dekalb will see fit to include us with Avondale and the street of Derrydown north of Columbia Drive which is as farfetched as our getting annexed into Decatur.
Can you explain why you moved where then? Why you bought that house? Seriously- no sarcasm here.I am very curious on this. I know a several people who are really unhappy with their neighborhoods and hope, hope, hope and expect even CoD will annex them. Why’d you buy there and why do you stay? The couple times I have broached this with people I know they get defensive- might be easier to be upfront in an anonymous setting??
I wonder if it’s first-time home ownership for some. I bought in Decatur as a single person following the cultural mantra of “Must buy home. Renting is pouring money down the drain. They aren’t making any more land. All real estate eventually rises in value. In other words, I didn’t know what I was doing. I initially thought I’d made a huge mistake because it was pre-boom, pre-trendy in Decatur, my street turned out to be full of single women like me, only 50-60 years older, and my home was full of flaws and a money pit, never mind the vine-ridden yard. It turned out to be a wonderful, prescient purchase, but honestly it was just plain lucky on my part. My home reminded me of my grandmother’s home and there was an emotional connection. I had no idea of what I should have been looking for in a neighborhood or house. My only criteria was that the street have house without bars on the windows.
I think that is part of it, but I do have a friend who bought her house near Midway Woods because she thinks Decatur ought to annex her neighborhood.She really has said to me that Decatur HAS to annex them. I just smile and nod cause I love ‘em….
Seems pretty straight-forward to me: $$. If you buy outside CoD, you likely pay less up front because it is NOT in CoD. If you get annexed, your property value suddenly goes up [probably enough to cancel out the slightly higher taxes) and your home’s resale star also rises because now you can sell it to any # of folks with K-12 children who want access to CoD schools.
So, if you have kids, plan on kids, or are planning on selling anytime soon, annexation would be a godsend. If no kids, not moving, not planning on pulling $ out of your equity, why bother?
I know several people living in this area and they seem angry at Decatur for “withholding” annexation . They maintain rescuing Forrest Hills is the “right ” thing for Decatur to do . I can’t understand why the frustration is directed at Decatur when it is Dekalb County doing them wrong.
One of the people I know always said he bought his house because he got more house/land for the money and lower taxes than inside the Decatur limits. Before the school closed he was proud of his savvy purchase decision. Now he is angry at Decatur for looking only at dollars with no interest in helping out neighbors . Too emotional to see the contradiction in his positions.
Last I checked, Decatur wasn’t a 501c3. Decatur’s first obligation is to residents who bought into Decatur and have supported Decatur for years or decades with a premium on property taxes as well as their sweat equity. Decatur wasn’t always desirable. People have worked very hard and spent a lot of money to make it so. Others who have bought in later have made sacrifices – smaller homes… smaller yards… higher taxes… to live here. It’s not right for folks who haven’t been invested in Decatur to claim that they have some sort of right to be bailed out when their bargain hunting didn’t pan out.
We’d love to have anyone who wants to move here, but to expect a windfall at the expense of the financial health of our city and school system is just isn’t fair. If it works out financially, great… come on in.. but it unfortunately doesn’t work out financially to annex large swaths of residential property.
One of the issues with annexation is of course the school system. Even with the opening of Glennwood and the $25 million + building of a new 4/5 school, CSD has very little flexibility to handle another big influx of students. It’s a small system (one of the reasons we love it). Taking all of Medlock and/or all of Forrest Hills would necessitate the opening of another K-3 school and would possibly swamp the new 4/5 and maybe the middle school.
Depending on which census tracts were annexed, annexation could have interesting effects on voting, both at the City Council and School Board level.
Map above is real useful but, for those of us who don’t know all the areas well, could someone explain how the areas outlined in green relate to some of the neigborhoods being mentioned. Forrest Hills is easiest to figure out because Forrest Hills Elemenary is in the middle of one of the outlined areas.
The area in question is basically all of the land south of North Decatur Road from the railroad west of the Clairemont intersection east to include the big Kroger shopping center. Suburban Plaza and the big Kroger center pay approx. $500,000 in DeKalb property tax, not including the personal property tax of the tenants. Ridgeland Park includes Willow Lane, Pensdale, Eastland, Greylock and Medlock. The other area mentioned in the AJC article is the section off Sycamore behind the hospital.
I am pretty much completely against residential annexation. It doesn’t benefit us in any way I can tell other than change the character of the city
Your neighborhood was annexed into Decatur and you’re pretty happy about it, right?
Straw argument. That was 80 years ago, before the building and population booms, and before most of our parents were born.I have no idea if I am happy about it because it has been this way for several generations; it might well have been that the little city of Oakhurst would kick Decatur’s ass.
No room in the schools is among the biggest issues. Annexing changes the character of this town. That was the assessment 80 years ago when Oakhurst was annexed in- small little village eaten by larger town. They came together and were able to grow in a positive way. A bunch of people must have wanted that change.
I’d like to see some serious plans and some serious urban planning types in the mix before anyone breathes on this issue again.
No one has shown me any evidence that eating of large -or small – tracts of unincorporated DeKalb does anyone but the people in those residential tracts any good- and not all of those homeowners want that and consider it good. Where is the long term benefit to our residents? Paying off bonds for building more schools? Increasing taxes and city payrolls in order to maintain what we have for more people? Nope, don’t get the benefit, and I think of lot of other people feel the same way.
Nellie hits the nail squarely on the head.
Well said, Nellie. You have my vote for the best comments on this post.
Hi, Nellie. Agree with you that careful and capable planning is warranted when contemplating annexation, mostly IMO to avoid swamping the school system. (I’d expect other areas–public works, public safety, administration–have different economies of scale and are less vulnerable to being overwhelmed.) But I respectfully disagree that “annexation changes the character of this town” is a reason to oppose it. The character of this town is changing every day and every year, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse (and always depending on who you ask, of course!). It’s changed drastically in the ten years I’ve lived here–IMO some things are way better and some things I’m less happy about. When all is said and done, though, I prefer being in a living, breathing community. Change is part of that.
If Decatur is going to have any degree of economic diversity in the future (even maintaining what we have now, much less broadening it), then we need to expand the tax base (not just keep increasing it vertically). Obviously, the trick is ensuring the increase in revenue stays ahead of the increased demand for services. Difficult, yes, but IMO not impossible. If we don’t figure out how to do it, Decatur will evolve into an upper-income enclave. And THAT would certainly qualify as changing the character of the town.
SMG, I was thinking of size and the awful, horrid situation of Atlanta where antiquated systems and too much unplanned growth have pretty much left the town a mess- and I don’t mean just recently but going back 40 years! I doubt annexation plans, though, will lead to any sort of economic diversity unless we have enough people who want to address the overbuilding issue- once they are in Decatur, those old ranches would ofetn come down and be replaced with megahouses with half the quality at ten times the price, just like they do now.
I’m not familiar with what the annexation pattern has been for the City of Atlanta, but don’t doubt it’s contributed to the many varieties of messes they now confront. For Decatur, though, my reflexive response to the notion is “tell me why we shouldn’t” instead of “tell me why we should.”
I don’t see annexation as leading to economic diversity so much as offering one means to combat the erosion of it. The cost of running Decatur–the City and the school system–will continue to increase. It’s not realistic to think it can be perpetually supported by a tax digest in which the residential portion is predominantly single-family households with children, and the non-residential portion is significantly occupied by tax-exempt entities (churches and county gov’t). Decatur must find ways to expand the tax base; and the City has to develop in ways that make it worthwhile for people without children to invest in living here, because we pay a substantially larger share of the bill relative to what we directly receive. (Not only do I not consume CSD resources, but I also never use the Rec or the swimming pools or the ball fields or tennis courts, or even the dog park.) And I volunteer regularly.
I agree with STG. Unless Decatur brings in many more childless, non-resource-consuming singles such as myself, our taxes will continue to increase due to the influx of families with children moving here for our great schools. To annex the northeast parcel with its minimal school children and much larger non-exempt, tax-paying Suburban plaza would be a smart move.
I’m in favor of commercial annexation. Unfortunately, it will entail some residential to redraw the lines to get some commercial. I have never understood why Decatur doesn’t go after Emory Commons. It is prime commercial real estate that includes many stores that Decaturites frequent. I’m fine giving my $ to Publix, Los Loros, Bike South, etc. However, it would be nice to know Decatur was getting some of that back in the form of real estate tax.
Maybe because a city commissioner has a business there and doesn’t want an increase in expenses? Emory Commons is actually the only spot that make sense to me as far as annexation.
What about the Devry property? The city annexed that, and nothing is happening there. How about if the city waits until that is developed to see how it changes the picture before taking on a bunch of other unknowns.
The proposed area including Forrest Hills has the small commercial DMZ along College Avenue. Sure, you’d tick off Mr. WTF ANNEXATION LEGALIZED STEALING OMG dude, but anything that hacks off that buffoon is A Good Thing in my book. But it’s not all residential, and it even comes with a conveniently empty school building that I’d suspect Dekalb County wouldn’t mind being rid of.
JEM: Like you, I live in the “green” are on that map — not Forrest Hills, but north along College. I don’t think it has anything to do with you guys angering the school board. The county just doesn’t give a crap about this area.
Just because Decatur annexes Forrest Hills doesn’t mean that the school there just becomes Decatur property. CSD would have to buy or lease it it from DCSS, and I can’t imagine DCSS cutting them a deal on it. Then, CSD has to fully staff it, pay for utilities, fully equip it, etc. That money needs to come from somewhere, and residential property taxes just won’t cover it.
Then, all those kids in Forrest Hills would have to fit at the 4/5 Academy, which will pretty much be full the day it opens.
Forrest Hills has access to Avondale Museum School, right?
Sarahph, a few children do go to the Museum School, the International School, Decatur Schools and some magnet schools. None of these are a sure thing, though.The Museum School takes children who were districted in Avondale . We have been told that they will take FH children even though we are slated for Knollwood.
Leoghann, I believe that you live in the part of unincorporated 30030 that has been redistricted into Druid Hills and Shamrock. I am glad for you. If Forrest Hills were a part of this redistricting people over here wouldn’t even care that much about annexation, at least I wouldn’t. There is going to be a meeting over at Avondale High, I believe on Friday and a lot of my neighbors are attending, including me. Hopefully, the lines will be changed to include all or the area north of Columbia Drive. I think we are probably too late at the vote will be in mid March. A
Why stop with Medlock? Annex the whole county.
I would rather forego the additional revenue than risk the annexation of a property that is in a downward spiral with only the hope that maybe, someday it would be prime real estate. will annexing suburban plaza make decatur a better place to live? i predict it will only create additional stress on city services.
Am I reading the map wrong? I don’t get all the talk about Medlock – it only appears to be a portion of the neighborhood, and not a big portion at that.
That’s right. Just to be clear, this post and comments keep referencing “Medlock,” but this is only a rather small portion of Medlock Elementary’s attendance area we’re talking about here.
Medlock Elementary’s whole student body will be divided up and sent to Laurel Ridge, McLendon and Avondale Elementary Schools. Actually, most of the Medlock Park neighborhood itself will be going to Laurel Ridge Elementary and isn’t affected by the above conversation, so far as I can tell.
The neighborhoods in question here were, under earlier plans, also slated to be sent to Laurel Ridge, a school with good test scores. Under the superintendent’s most recent proposed plan, they will be sent to Avondale, a school with not-as-good test scores. These neighborhoods are now pretty worried — which accounts for the City of Decatur annexation talk.
So, they get to thumb their noses at Decatur until they find themselves in a pickle… and suddenly those taxes don’t seem to high anymore? Uh….no – they made their bed.. they can sleep in it…. or move to Decatur.
sara, I think you’re missing the point. Decatur has been trying to annex the northeast (south of North Decatur Road) section for several years and the residents have always fought it. Now that their elementary school is closing, Decatur sees an opportunity to convince them to annex.
Medlock school is scheduled to close. The residents are not happy about being redistricted all the way to Avondale ES.
I’ve been trying to keep tabs on this because we live on the border of this area, just inside the CoD (along the notorious “car sewer” mentioned in another post). It is my understanding that residents are upset that they are losing not only the neighborhood school, which many parents like because they can walk to, and have invested a lot in in terms of building up, but also that—depending on which redistricting proposal is approved–students would be divided up and sent to a number of different elementary schools. One proposal sends most to Laurel Ridge right now. Another would send some to Laurel Ridge, some to McLendon, some to Avondale, and some to Jolly ES.
It is really going to have a devastating effect on the neighborhood. Much the way, I imagine, the closure of Forrest Hills had on that area.
Sorry. I cross-posted with right-o. I hadn’t seen the latest proposal.
Is there any Decatur resident out there who can make good case for annexation on our side?
The value of annexation is in the northeast because, for the most part, all the infrastructure is in place to serve market segments outside the child-heavy single family home model. Suburban Plaza and the bulk of DeKalb Industrial are along a proposed MARTA light rail route and would lend themselves perfectly to urban, transit-oriented multifamily zoning and development practices that capture Baby Boom and Echo Boom purchasing trends already emerging. DeKalb County doesn’t have tools on the books to allow that kind of development. Decatur does.
These product and demographic types, together with the commercial amenities that complement them, are tax-positive because they produce residents with few children. We all focus on how you can “game the system” by living in a multifamily environment to take advantage of the schools but look at the proven model of our downtown residential. It has very few kids. Period.
If we’re going to annex, it should be in preparation of emerging markets. Not in perpetuation of revenue negative residences (sorry, Forest Hills…).
very well said, Scott.
If we’re prepping for Clifton Corridor transit, Decatur’s going to need to wait a few more years before even considering annexation. While thankfully not dead, that plan is still a long way off from finality or implementation.
I get that and it makes sense, Scott. Thanks. I think my head focuses too much on residential annexation since that is where most of the conversations seem to end up. Comments like Fifi’s above are the ones most of us hear and I think she sums up what us average folks hear from our non-Decatur friends!
It would be nice to see some facts and figures on commercial annexation from the city.
I live in Medlock Park/ Clairmont Heights and most of the people in our neighborhood are either retired or are Emory students renting a house. My husband and I chose this neighborhood because we don’t have to pay city taxes and we are not having kids. The people that do have kids either like having the school up the street or, they move to Decatur so their kids can go to Decatur schools.