City Schools of Decatur – 2009 CRCT Test Scores
Decatur Metro | July 7, 2009The AJC has now posted CRCT scores for 2009 by individual school, though I’m having trouble coming up with any statewide benchmarks. Here are a couple snippets from the AJC article that reference statewide levels…
For instance, the pass rate among eighth graders taking the math test rose to 70 percent, up from 62 percent last year.
…Third-graders this year improved their math passage rate from 71 percent to 78 percent, and fifth-graders improved from 72 percent to 79 percent. For science, 80 percent of third-graders passed the test, compared to 75 percent last year. The fourth-grade passing rate rose from 74 percent to 78 percent.
Social studies remained a challenge, with 37 percent of eighth graders failing that test. Last year, 41 percent of eighth graders failed.
Among CSD schools, Oakhurst had by far the smallest percentage of 3rd graders that failed the math section (12.5%), while Winnona had the highest (23.2%). Oakhurst also had the smallest percentage of 3rd graders that failed the science section (10.7%), while Clairemont had the highest (17.3%). 20.9% of 8th graders failed the “challenging” social studies section, which is considerably better than the 37% statewide average mentioned above.
Here are links to each Decatur school, allowing you to avoid the AJC’s painful drop-down menu.
Clairemont Elementary
Winnona Park Elementary
Oakhurst Elementary
Glennwood Academy
Renfroe Middle School
Also, I noticed that Decatur ranked 91st among Georgia High School Graduation Tests in 2009. That data was released about a month ago.
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Thanks for posting this information. Very helpful to see the Decatur scores. I was surprised to see the high fail rate for Winnona Park on the math scores. Hopefully that will improve.
Got hope?
When we moved into Oakhurst in 1996, Oakhurst Elm. was a title 1 school. I think these scores show that CSD has been moving in the right direction for the last 10 years. Way to go CSD!
Aren’t ALL the CSD schools Title 1 now? Wasn’t that the main impetus for the first school configuration? To redistribute the low-income student population evenly across all elementary schools so that they would all qualify for Title 1 funds? Or am I mis-remembering?
I think CSD schools are mostly NOT Title 1 now. That’s due to gentrification as well as the previous reorg. Gentrification is also responsible for some of the test score improvements at Oakhurst. Gentrification is a double-edged sword–we all want our community to improve in safety, economic stability, and attractiveness. But our rising house values have driven folks out. Some of those who could no longer afford to live in Decatur were natives, unlike many of the gentrifiers. I am personally glad that CSD schools have improved for my children but I am not so naive to believe that the only motivation for the reorg was “to help all children in Decatur”. Many have profited from the gentrification that resulted. This is unfortunately the natural course of gentrification. I do not have a better suggestion for how to handle community improvement other than consciously plan for affordable housing. But we have to be careful about giving the CSD reorg credit for improving test scores. The reorg and gentrification were linked like chicken and egg and who knows which came first.
DM, I don’t think the links worked as you wished- at least not for me! Thanks for trying though.
Crap, you’re right Nellie. It seemed to work yesterday. I guess the AJC doesn’t want anything to be easy.
Looks like they need to replace the 3rd grade math teacher at Winnona! Renfroe’s scores were higher than I was expecting at least.
Ouch! I hope your comment was a little tongue-in-cheek. This year’s poorer performance could be because the teacher isn’t the best, but it could also be a statistical blip, or a case where the teacher is emphasizing material that isn’t on the standardized test because s/he thinks it’s what’s best for the students’ future development. I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone (including students) to have teachers working under the fear that one sub-par year of test scores will cost them their jobs. That said, accountability is important, and I trust that the teachers involved and the school administration will be paying attention to this and working on measures to improve for next year.
There’s also a cohort effect that must be considered. Not every cohort of kids is the same. Perhaps the third grade class this past year at Winnona struggled more with math. There are definitely cohort effects in CSD. One of my children is thankfully in a wonderful cohort of kids that the teachers have enjoyed at all the grade and school levels, especially because the cohort ahead of them was known as challenging. My other child is a cohort with what is known as the “alpha girls”, with all the teachers asking us what the heck we were drinking during pregnancy.
On the other hand, sometimes teachers are not effective. Multiple pieces of evidence should be used to judge effectiveness, not just one set of test scores–e.g. test scores over time and across cohorts–both CRCT and MAP/ITBS, assessment of paraprofessionals and special teachers who work in classroon, assessment of teachers who receive the teacher’s children the following year, classroom observation, parental assessment, etc. Effectiveness should be not just based on test taking but on the classroom experience in general. If a teacher’s style results in a disruptive classroom or makes kids hate to learn or come to school, that may be more damaging to a child’s education than a single test score.
Winnoa Judy: Your comment is way off base. Fire a teacher just because one test score is low? Much better to look at the whole student and the whole school.
Fire is a bit extreme, I admit. If anything, hopefully the school will use the test scores to examine what the underlying issue is. I just hope that they have it figured out by the time I have kids going there.
Since quality of schools affects everything from property value to the future of our society and culture, I hope we can be a little bit less myopic and worry about more than just the impact on our own kids and our own household.
Looking forward to PTA meetings already with such “friendly” folks out there already. Sigh…
If you haven’t hit CSD schools yet, I have one tip for you:
BAKE BROWNIES!
– Want to get to know the other kids in your child’s class–BAKE BROWNIES for snack time.
–Want to get involved with the PTA, but not sure how–BAKE BROWNIES, when they ask. for curriculum night, orientation, fundraisers, etc.
–Want to get to know your child’s teacher, offer to BAKE BROWNIES for class parties
–Want to get to know school staff, BAKE BROWNIES for Teacher Appreciation Day, Valentine’s Day, whenever, and leave them in the Teacher’s Lounge (signed of course)
–Want to know what the heck the School Leadership Team is doing–come to a meeting and bring BAKED BROWNIES
The only way to really be on top of your child’s education is to be there at school as much as possible. That’s true if your child is in PreK, elementary, RMS, or DHS. It’s true whether you work full-time or at home with have several little ones clinging to you. It’s true for fathers and mothers. There’s various ways to get to know your school, teacher, principal, PTA, School Leadership Team, etc. but I personally recommend BAKE BROWNIES. There’s something about the smell of warm brownies that makes school folks less defensive and more welcoming. The rest will follow.
Snowflake, let’s not just say pre-K but daycare too! It starts early and here in Decatur we are lucky to have the unique public-nonprofit partnership that is College Heights!
So, CSD, would you recommend I bake brownies? Your post isn’t very clear about that.
I really like the first part of your last paragraph. Parental involvement is absolutely critical for a child’s educational growth, and is worth the time and effort every parent can put into it.
Judy,
I think your comments regarding accountability are well founded. Unfortunately as you can see from the other posts there are a lot of apologists in Decatur regarding the schools. It’s like the CSD is some sacred cow or something. I especially like the comment “… a case where the teacher is emphasizing material that isn’t on the standardized test because s/he thinks it’s what’s best for the students’ future development.” Right, because the materials covered on those tests are just stupid and put together by stupid people. Good luck with that argument when it comes to the SAT’s.
I think our taxes are among the highest in the state. I expect our spending of close to $14,000/student is pretty near the top also. I’m sure our teacher salaries are at or above the state average and certainly above that of private schools. So considering the amount of funds directed toward education and the demographics of the city, I would expect better scores on the CRCT and Graduation tests. Decatur High’s ranking of 91st in the state is an embarrassment. Bottom line, I would hope the school administrators will come out and communicate a plan to address their shortcomings, otherwise look for even more of your neighbors to be running to private schools.
Don’t know about the state salary average, but CSD salaries are lower than other Metro area systems. The way we compete for excellent teachers isn’t on salary but on a better classroom teaching situation–fewer oversized classes, better colleagues, students who are better prepared and with less problem behavior. I’m not an apologist, I’m a downright fan of CSD classroom teachers, with very few exceptions. I’m a little less enthused about the size and value of our admin positions.
“So considering the amount of funds directed toward education and the demographics of the city, I would expect better scores on the CRCT and Graduation tests. Decatur High’s ranking of 91st in the state is an embarrassment.”
Can you expound on this statement with supporting evidence? I’m particularly talking about the demographics comment. I’d like to see how many, if any ,of the 90 high school’s ranked ahead of Decatur High have demographics like ours – 30% reduced lunches, 48% black, etc.
I have a much more favorable opinion of DHS’s performance. College acceptances were posted on a DHS wall last May and I was blown away by how many postings I saw for outstanding schools. I’ve attended a few academic events involving DHS students and been truly impressed. I think we’re getting a lot for our money. I’m not an apologist for CSD–there’s been several decisions I cannot support. But we spend a lot less per student compared to communities of equal affluence in other parts of the country. Given Georgia’s embarrassing performance in education compared to almost all of the rest of the 50 states, I am not impressed if we spend more than the Georgia average.
A different issue is why it costs so much per year to educate kids well. Not in my realm of expertise but I also don’t understand the exorbitant cost of merely being in the hospital for a day before any treatment costs or the cost of routine car maintenance these days. I guess services based on human capital and professional expertise are inherently expensive. It certainly isn’t outrageously high salaries for front-line teachers that is doing it.
It is very interesting to me that before all of the changes in the school system, of which I was once a teacher, Decatur was tops in the state of Georgia in testing. There were more, I think but not sure, lower income students then, that affect test scores. What were they doing then that they are not doing now? Not that we should call it “the good old days”, but, indeed, City of Decatur had the best schools in the state for a fairly long time as far as testing is concerned. Of course, there are other aspects of education that may have improved in the past few years. Anyone have any ideas on this?
WJ
I totally take offense to your poor attitude. Please come to a PTA meeting at WP – you will find some of the most dedicated, friendly, fun-loving, kid-loving, teacher-supporting neighbors on the planet. Did I mention that they are dedicated to your kids? Devoting thousands of hours combined and not receiving a dime for it. You’re right – you wouldn’t fit in with your snide condescending attitude.
Not to mention that there is no 3rd grade math teacher. The kids receive math instruction with their “homeroom” teacher. Having spent many hours in that school observing the hard work the teachers put in, I can assure you that our kids are being served by true professionals there. Please see CSD Snowflake’s comments about the cohort effect. This is so true and reveals a total falacy in the way that we assess our schools and their staff. Think about it, if a football team wins the national championship and graduates all their starting players do we expect them to win the title again next year, and every year? Of course not. We would like for them to, but we are realistic. Sometimes you do the best you can with what you’ve got. Some championship coaches will tell you that their best “coaching jobs” where with teams that didn’t win as many games, but they got the most out of their talent. Maybe that’s the case with 3rd grade math this year. Do you know? Where you in the schools helping out? No – so calling for someone’s head in a public forum is ridiculous. Shame on you. Now, if the scores are “bad” year after year then maybe we could talk – just like a coach who posts losing records year after year. But you can’t assess that by looking at one number one year. Why don’t you do some homework, look at the whole body of work over the course of say four or five years and get back to us.
“Since quality of schools affects everything from property value to the future of our society and culture”…..
Teachers have a profound impact on society at all levels and they are still the most underpaid and undersupported group of workers out there. If we really placed that much value on education in society, the teachers would be held as the most esteemed level in social status…past doctors, lawyers, engineers, administrators, politicians, etc. etc.
We say we place alot of value on education…but for the most part its really just lip service.
I will refrain from suggesting that we bake more brownies. However, while I can’t do anything about the fact that hard-working, on-their-feet-all-day teachers earn 1/3-1/2 of what some educats earn when clearly the salary pyramid ought to go the other way around, I DO contribute in any way I can to support the teachers–class gifts, supplies for room, classroom book donations during Book Fair, snacks for rooms, whatever. The intangibles help teachers too–thank you notes for special achievements with a copy to principal, flowers, birthday cards, um…treats.
I’m not sure how we change the cultural norm of low teacher salaries. Some of it may be leftover sexism because teachers are still mostly female. But my guess is that the marketplace may have to exert a role. Nurses are still majority female and are not at the top of the medical workplace pyramid but have decent salaries because they are in short supply. Not sure why the markeplace isn’t working to raise teacher salaries. Maybe there’s an endless source of mediocre teachers so school systems don’t have to pay as much as they would if they only hired highly effective teachers. I happen to think that most Decatur teachers are highly effective but they are too few in number to affect the general Georgia teacher market. Instead, there’s enough competition for CSD positions that CSD salaries can be slightly lower than others without affecting teacher quality.
At Winnona, look at the number of students on free and reduced lunches in Third Grade. Many times these students, due to a variety of factors, will score lower than the other students. It may not be the teachers’ fault at all, especially if there is a large number of these students. I am not saying that these students can’t learn. I am saying that many of those on Free and Reduced lunches do not do as well as the others. The concern is whether or not those that didn’t pass the Math test did make progress.
Scores are low b/c CSD has it in their head that all kids should be in the same classroom learning the same thing in the same way… like little automatrons. ELOB and IB do not necessarily work for all learning levels but they go ahead and cram everyone in to the same types of classes so that they can feel good. Kids are not the same. Some kids need more direct teaching methods while others benefit from more “removed” methods such as project based learning. If you want the kids who aren’t getting it to learn, you have to get over your political correctness and get those kids into a class where someone is making the content very clear and giving multiple repetitions.
While I love ELOB and IB and absolutely do not want to see ithem removed.. these methods are not going to work well for kids who need more drilling. Some kids need more than project based learning and need to be placed in a setting where they can learn… not a setting where everyone can hug eachother and feel good. CSD’s job is to teach.
Downtowner, I totally agree!!
Interesting perspective. I’d like to know what experienced and knowledgeable teachers think about some kids needing drilling rather than, or in addition to, ELOB and IB. It makes some sense but I don’t have either data or experience to back it up or not. The Saturday Math Academy that Clairemont held last spring for 4 or 5 Saturdays was essentially supplemental drilling of math concepts with a lot of practice. Unfortunately, math CRCT scores at Clairemont did not go up. But who knows how poor they would have been otherwise.
Even though my kids never failed any CRCTs, I think they could, or still can, use a little more drilling. Heck, I even had to do some drilling at the doctoral course level! Drilling is one of many ways to get factoids into your head. It’s not a sufficient technique but sometimes necessary. (To those who say I am responsible for my child’s education and I should be drilling at home, I reply that you may be right, but I’m still working on finishing homework, keeping the bathroom clean, and wearing sunscreen consistently. Not all parents are effective teachers and our pay reflects that!)
E,
Regarding how DHS compared to other schools of similar demographic characteristics. I thought I would take a look at Lakeside High School considering the demographics there should be just as “challenging” as Decatur High. They came in at #87. But while we spend close to $14,000 per student, DeKalb County spends around $10,000 and the state of Georgia on average around $8,500. It just appears to me that the school system in Decatur is not achieving its potential. Be it the administration, the teachers or what ever, we should not be satisfied with what we are seeing right now. So the next time the schools want a tax increase what do you do?
Lakeside demographics
Latino 13.3%
White 43.4%
Black 29.2%
Asian 9.1%
Decatur High demographics
Latino 1%
White 46%
Black 47%
Asian 2%
Just curious, BEL– what, IYO, is the significance of the demographical breakdown between the schools? I’m assuming you had a reason for posting those percentages.
I’m also wondering about the point. That if you spend less per child, you’ll have more Asian students in your schools? That white Decatur students cost 1.4 as much as white Lakside students? That it would be cheaper if we had fewer black students and more Hispanic students? You can divide and manipulate the racial distribution and cost per student multiple ways and get all sorts of conclusions.
I think you were trying to say that Lakeside is similar to Decatur but costs less. However, Lakeside’s website describes itself as having kids from a “predominantly upper middle class suburban community” . Couldn’t find the school size but they might also have economies of scale that DHS doesn’t have. Didn’t find their senior page impressive–“Best Flirt”, “Best Party Animal” “Cutest Couple”. Didn’t see any “Cheapest to Educate given SAT score”!
I provided the information in response to what “E” posted (obviously making an excuse for DHS poor performance)…
“I’d like to see how many, if any ,of the 90 high school’s ranked ahead of Decatur High have demographics like ours – 30% reduced lunches, 48% black, etc.”
Hey, if you’re satisfied with the performance of CDS, then great. If having the 91st ranked high school in the state is enough for you, terrific. If baking brownies and paying high taxes makes you feel like you’ve go the best education available, then you have nothing to complain about. I, on the other hand, expect more and if things don’t improve, like others on my street, it’s private school for my kids.
I wasn’t “obviously making an excuse for poor performance”, I was asking for perspective on the numbers. Thank you for providing more info. The two schools line up pretty closely in terms of those numbers. As someone noted, Lakeside is twice the size of Decatur High, and thus has a couple of efficiences of scale (building maintenance, administration).
Since you bring up neighboring Dekalb County and their cost per student, it is worthwhile to note that McNair High is ranking in the 350s. Out of 400.
And since you noted Lakeside, did you realize that it is the highest ranked intown school in Atlanta? And Decatur is right there with Lakeside.
To the others in this thread, this may be a new concept, but demographics like income level (qualifying for assisted lunch) and race have high correlations to educational achievement. We can be all PC about it, or we can accept that it is a factor in school test results.
One more thing – that ranking system is of questionable value- it is based entirely on the percentage of test takers who fail the graduation test. That’s a very narrow basis for judging school quality.
People who expect their children to not only graduate high school but go to college should be looking at other metrics to determine if Decatur’s school quality is up to their standards.
I agree that income level, single parenthood, family stress, cultural norms, and neighborhood environment are correlated to educational achievement. I’m not sure that it’s been shown that race or ethnicity, after controlling for those more relevant factors, are independently associated with achievement.
I find educational testing so bizarrely constructed, unidimensional, and misused that I don’t rely on test results at all to judge where I should send my kids. I go by what I see in the classroom (brownie strategy), what I see my children doing with reading and math when they’re at home, and how happy and engaged they seem to be. I’ve considered private schools a few times. One time, I loved the school on the tour but my son was horrified at its outdoor facilities and insisted that he would never leave CSD. I took that as a sign that he fit well where he was. Another time I realized that I did not care for a lot of the parents of the kids who went to the school and I took that as another sign that it would not be a good fit. Even though I have plenty of quantitative skills, my gut is probably the best judge of where my child belongs. If others in Decatur have gut feelings that their kids should be in private school, they should follow those feelings. Unfortunately, CSD does not do a good job of responding to parents as one of its key stakeholders, nor does it market itself well. It projects an attitude of “we know what’s best for all the kids and if you disagree, you must be racist or selfish and/or resistant to change”. Because of that, I think it loses good families to private schools. My guess is that many of those private school kids would do just as well in CSD, be just as happy, and get into just as good colleges. (Whole different story for students with special needs. If I had a child with special needs, I would run like the wind from public school and get my child into a high quality private school designed for similar students).
By the way, I hear that brownie making is pretty important in private school too. One school’s family interview includes questions about how the parents will donate time and money to the school and help with fundraising activities. That’s in addition to a hefty tuition.
Snowflake’s right. No Child Left Behind is a disaster that promotes teaching to the test rather than active learning. It’s poor public policy, period. Before you marry yourself to the significance of these test scores, find out exactly how No Child Left Behind really works and talk to a few attorneys who work for children’s rights in the educational system.
It’s what you see your kids learning and how they are progressing that signify the quality of the school. If you aren’t actively engaged in that process, you are a fool. Snowflake’s brownie metaphor- for yes, children, it was a metaphor – is spot-on. I don’t think anyone here has been an apologist; in fact, the people defending the schools seem to be the only people with children IN the schools.
City of Decatur is now a charter school district, which will allow a great deal more freedom for the schools. There is no other program in the state like College Heights. There is a lot of innovation going on here, and if you want to walk away from it, feel free.
OK, well I guess it’s OK then that the most difficult, deep book that my daughter’s Renfroe 6th grade ELA class read together last year was Nancy Drew? There were also a couple of picture books.
If that’s an example of the genius that goes on in the classroom, I think I’d better stick to test scores, if I go deeper than that I’m afraid of what I might find.
Behind Enemy Line’s mention of a collective thought of parents on his street leaning towards exiting the public schools is very important, as that can often make or break a public school system. From what I see there are more and more parents deciding to send their young children to Decatur public schools (and lots of young parents moving to Decatur for that very reason), whereas maybe 15 years ago like parents would have made a different decision. Much of this stems from the earlier gentrification discussion, but parents, and the community at wide, can’t underestimate the power they have to influence others to join in to make our public schools great. It took a group of parents 10-15 years ago to start to take the plunge and stay public in Decatur. I suspect that some of Decatur High’s current performance issues will diminish over time as those kids public move up through the system, in wave after wave. The high performing high schools on that list are schools where families have used and invested in the public schools for decades. We can get there too, hopefully in an inclusive way, but it takes parents committing to send their kids public all the way through to build an improving and consistently high achieving system.
Macarolina has it right.
Decatur is still on the upswing. The communities with top schools didn’t get there by accident, and it didn’t happen overnight. I think it is more important to look at the overall trend rather than focus on one poor test in one school. My hunch is that DHS will be a top ten school within ten years. That won’t happen if parents flee instead of getting involved.
Please tell me what is wrong with a 6th grade class {11 year olds} reading Nancy Drew?
Nothing wrong with Nancy Drew. It’s just that my kid and her friends read Nancy Drew in 3rd grade. I also it in 3rd grade.
How about something a little more deep like The Giver, The Golden Compass, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe or True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle?
This was the most difficult book that the class tried to tackle … and at the end of the school year. In fact, it was the only chapter book that I know of that the class covered together I guess i’m crazy, but I just expect more of 6th graders. Much more was expected of me even as a 5th grader.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an 11 year old sitting around reading Nancy Drew. I just think that most 6th graders can do far more in a language arts class. It was actually a bit of a joke among some of the 6th graders b/c they had read it such a long time ago. They considered it a little kid book.
Speaking of Nancy Drew…Judge Sotomayor’s interest in the law was sparked as a young girl by reading the Nancy Drew series. Also, Ruth Ginsberg has said that the detetic series was an early influence on her.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/14/AR2009071402892.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Perhaps the teacher was trying to get the children reading for fun. Did you ask the teacher why this book was chosen?
Good points