T-SPLOST Fails to Pass By Big Margin, Brookhaven Becomes Georgia’s Newest City
Decatur Metro | August 1, 2012 | 8:28 amLooks like Atlanta metro area voters disapproved of T-SPLOST by a 2:1 margin. Gov. Deal told the AJC he’ll now take a “central role” in the metro’s transportation planning. What’s Gov. Deal’s “Plan B’? Jim Galloway got the scoop.
In other July 31st vote-related news, DeKalb has another new city on the way: Brookhaven. The city will officially incorporate on December 17th. USA Today has a story this morning about Georgia’s “mostly white” new cities and the challenges they create and face.
Related Posts:
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April 30, 2012 T-SPLOST “Plan B”: Does It Exist and What Would It Look Like? (33)
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July 25, 2012 Another July 31st Vote: Creating a City of Brookhaven (1)
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February 20, 2012 Finally! Interactive T-SPLOST Map! (7)
I hope the Sierra Club is happy because now instead of some transit we will get all roads. Thank goodness the Sierra Club and Tea Party have united.
+ infinity.
Argh! +2 (mine and husband’s two pro-TSPLOST votes).
Yep. Maybe they’ll work just as hard to convince Gov. Deal that public transit should be included in his list of projects as they did to defeat the TSPLOST? Eh, probably not.
Yup. I wish Deal had released his Plan B beforehand, so the Sierra Club and friends could have seen what a useless plan their idealism was getting us.
There wasn’t a Plan B to release. Plan B is status quo.
+ infinity again. Sad day for Atlanta. The saddest part is that this proposal included all sorts of compromise, which we clearly as a city and nation are completely averse to these days. All or nothing approach makes strange bed fellows, hence the Sierra Club and Tea Party alliance.
+1
In other news today – First phase of the Dallas Orange Line opens – Railway Gazette: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban-rail/single-view/view/first-phase-of-the-dallas-orange-line-opens.html
I assume that Dallas residents are no more jazzed about transit than Atlanta’s.
So what’s different?
I think Dallas is much more understanding of the role of transit in their transportation network – see http://www.dart.org/ and http://www.dart.org/maps/printrailmap.asp.
I would love to know how they finance it! Their fares seem to be less than MARTA.
On a multi-billion dollar credit card, where they borrow against their future penny taxes (similar to MARTA’s existing penny tax). But now they need more….
http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/07/dart-seeks-judges-ok-to-extend-cap-on-total-debt-had-promised-in-2000-to-borrow-no-more-than-2-9-billion.html/
One major difference, I believe is that Transit and Roads do not have to compete like they do here. Texas is so rich in natural resources that it can, and seems to, build all the highways it wants and still have money to fund transit.
One other impression that I get is that outlying municipalities tend to opt-in to DART, while they seem to opt out here.
Dallas put in its first leg of the DART in the mid to late ’90s and there was talk and fear of crime. But that didn’t materialize. And now they have a network to be proud of. We keep looking to Portland and what they did. Seems to me that we should be looking at Dallas.
– Former Houstonian and proud Texan who can’t help but envy what those North Texans have done with that system
Dallas’ take on the Atlanta results: http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/08/atlanta-area-voters-say-no-to-transportation-tax.html/
I think the Dallas News story was surprisingly insightful, as were some of the comments. I was one of the voters who held their nose while voting yes.
I voted for the TSplost, but my heart was not in it and this morning I am glad it failed. One more per cent sales tax on top of the 1% for MARTA keeps the tax burden for the metro transportation on the backs on people in Fulton and DeKalb and that is not right. Sales tax is not the way to pay for these projects. Tax transportation – parking, fuel, taxis, rental cars, etc. MARTA should raise the single ride fares out of the airport to $5 – every other city charges more to get to/from the airport. It’s time for City of Atlanta, the inner core counties, and MARTA to take off the gloves.
smith’s post pretty much sums up my feelings. I voted yes because of Mayor Floyd’s plea and the endorsement of Clark Howard (who is one of the few opinionated broadcasters I trust). But my heart was not in it. The 400 toll fiasco, taxes like the “tire disposal” fee… which do not do what they are supposed to do… these things add up to a general distrust of government for many. Plus I think many look at major government tax initiatives as a jobs program and an opportunity for connected people to make a buck. I think I have a bad case of voter fatigue…
Marta and its use and relevancy here in Atlanta is a joke. Until new lines parallel the full 75/ 85 /I20 highways and other key areas citizens outside the perimeter have no incentive to take it. What is nauseating and embarrassing to listen to are the people in Gwinnett, Marrietta, Alpharetta, etc.. use increased potential for crime as a reason they are not for it.
If it is truly our goal to create more jobs and grow and attract a young tech savvy workforce Atlanta based solely on the inability to quickly and efficiently move around the city from work, live, play perspective is way behind. Compare us to cities like Boston, Portland, Chicago it is no comparison. I truly hope the governor and all parties involved realize the importance of getting something done.
Wishful thinking most likely….
Go to the end of the line MARTA stations and look at the full parking lots. Check the county on the license plate. I think you will be surprised at the number of Cobbs and Forsyths at North Springs, Cobbs and Douglas at Hightower, Clayton and points south at College Park and Gwinnett, Rockdale at Indian Creek. Heck I see Gwinnett plates every day at East Lake Station. It is true that MARTA does not go everywhere, but there are a lot of people who commute on MARTA to jobs in downtown, midtown, Buckhead and elsewhere that MARTA does go. The problem is the people of Fulton and Dekalb subsidize it for everyone.
Those dumb Gwinnettains. If they’d just drive one more station towards town they’d get double frequency trains.
+ 1
Doraville station is mostly used by Gwinnetians, based on car tags. Also, Gwinnett buses drop off at that station.
Washington DC doesn’t charge more to get to the airport.
But is there a higher charge when coming from the airport, as Smith indicated?
DC has a sliding scale system based on how far you ride. There is no additional charge for riding to/from National Airport. I don’t know for a fact, but am willing to bet there will be a substantial charge for riding the new line that connects Dulles to the Metro. That line is under construction.
Philadelphia charges $5+ for a short ride from the airport to downtown where you can connect to subway, Amtrak and regional rail.
I’m not sure I agree with you smith. If National doesn’t get a surcharge, they won’t surcharge Dulles. The cost will be high enough just based on the distance from Dulles to downtown, especially on-peak.
On a side note, DC is one of the better systems in the nation, but the Silver Line was not a slam dunk. They still haven’t approved the 2nd phase to actually make it to Dulles. It has been partially funded by a $0.50 increase in tolls on the road paralleling the new line out to Dulles. Many people are not happy about it.
DC Metro has distance-based fares, and also increases fares during peak times.
Oh, and DC Metro doesn’t go to Dulles nor BWI. National Airport is relatively central, so it’s not a good comparison to ATL.
I must point out that MARC does run from DC to BWI.
Baltimore’s light rail goes to BWI.
The extra 1% tax added to an already high sales tax was unfair to the lowest-income citizens who spend most of their income on such necessities as food. Those of us who drive should be paying the tax, whether on gasoline or on tolls.
It is not a coincidence that so many of the largest contributors to the campaign were the folks who profit from building more roads.
We need a better plan.
Except that many food service workers, janitors, security and people in the service industry rely on Marta to get to their lower pay scale jobs at the airport. If you want to rip someone off, tourists in taxis would be a better option. Not poor people who actually use it as their main form of transportation.
I’d guess that most people who work at the airport and use MARTA regularly buy passes. Single ride fares are what should be raised.
Maybe. But they recently raised fares, why not try to actually fix what’s broken? They need to go to the legislature and get their financial situation straightened out so they can access their funds, and they need to further eliminate inefficiency.
Small example- Yesterday headed back over this way at about 4, waited on the platform for about 12 minutes at 5 pts, train finally arrives, and it was a short train to King Memorial. And then passing through King Memorial about 5 minutes later, everyone who got on the wrong train, was piling on. Why is a short train like that even necessary? I won’t even ask why the board was broken at 5 points.
It could be argued that some in the legislature are happy to see Marta flounder, but if this is the case, then why are they not doing more to get credible people to deal with the legislature? Maybe it’s time for dramatic shakeup.
It will be interesting to see if the Tea Party and Sierra Club remain aligned at all. One simple step they agreed on as part of a “Plan B” was the allocation of a portion of the hotel tax for MARTA, instead of an unnecessary new stadium to replace the Dome. This is an easy one, but will the tea partiers use their influence to exert pressure on the politicians, who don’t need voter approval to use tax dollars for a stadium?
Also, I agree with Smith that MARTA should increase single ride fares from the airport.
It’s been mostly ignored around these parts, but TSPLOST failed in 9 of the 12 regions across the state. Say what you will about future plans including more roads, less transit, but across the state today those in the road building industry are facing some grim realities.
As I see it, this will continue as long as there is such a large disconnect between the people inside the perimeter and the people outside the perimeter. As you will no doubt read on here today, a lot of insults will be made toward various groups. Then, in a couple of years, you will ask once again for a sales tax increase. Great plan guys.
How about spending some time understanding their issues rather than the name calling?
Ii don’t think either the sierra Club or the Tea Party had that much to do with the vote. If anything, I think many folks are feeling pinched and just didn’t want to spend an extra penny on each dollar.
It’s a loss for us on the east side of Peachtree, as we would have benefited greatly from the transit improvements, while getting most of the region to help us pay for them.
So looking forward to the Governor picking out which projects will now be built.
I agree. Sierra Club and Tea Party didn’t sway this. The real money being spent was almost all pro-TSPLOST, so what was most interesting to me was that this particular vote was not up for sale.
This may have been the worst possible outcome. I wanted it to fail, but I wanted it to lose by the slimmest of margins. I wanted the message to politicians to be that we know we need to work on transportation and transit, about half are already willing to pay more taxes for infrastructure improvements, but the plan needs to be improved upon. But, with this outcome, who is going to throw their support behind another tax, regardless of form, for improved transportation (at least for a couple of years)?
All of the attention on this referendum has allowed us to forget some other pressing issues. Heck, I’m not even sure that transportation is our biggest infrastructure problem. Water and sewage might be an even direr issue. Water bills are expected to increase dramatically over the next few years, and may be a much bigger burden on households (and businesses) than an increase in the sales tax would have been.
Passage of TSPLOST may have made the problem worse, with new development further straining overburdened systems.
To be clear, I agree with Sierra Club’s ideals, but compromise is crucial and I really think Clifton and Beltline need to happen soon to show what is possible. Lets not forget, we are now facing more MARTA service cuts, Clayton has no bus service and funding for GRTA express buses goes away in the summer of 2013. I belive in the next 20 years there will be enough support for transit only taxes but for now lets expand what we have using compromise. All of the road projects were not bad. The City of Atlanta projects included bike facilities and the interchange projects are sorely needed. It is what it is, but I think you will be hard pressed to get any support for transit from the state, not to mention the message we just sent the country as a whole.
About the Clayton bus system, aren’t they planning on voting to join MARTA? I thought they’d held a non-binding referendum that supported such a move.
This thing was a failure because our elected officials abdicated their responsibilities to govern. It is their job to plan and fund transportation projects, that’s what a representative system is for.
The GOP cannot bring itself to create any kind of tax increase. The D’s in Atlanta and DeKalb can’t be trusted with a tax increase.
Vote them all out. All of them. Until then, we deserve this.
This gets to the heart of it, I think. Why is it that when we ask our government to execute on one of its most basic functions — to build and maintain public goods like roads and other transit — its response is to ask us to approve a brand new and quite substantial tax increase? Last time I checked, I am already sending boatloads of money to federal, state, and county treasuries. Yet when we ask them to solve a problem, their first response seems to be to calculate a surcharge.
I don’t have a problem with tax increases – if something is deemed as essential or a priority, then it it needs to be paid for, and taxes are how government raises funds.
What I have a problem with is the GOP’s absolutist position on taxes. There can be no honest conversation about paying for what is needed. Raising the gas tax is off limits, even though it makes sense to put road improvement costs on the users. And of course raising the gas tax can reduce the congestion via the price equilibrium. Taking down toll booths at a time when a $500 million interchange 1 mile away is looking for funding is idiotic. Lumping DeKalb and Fulton in with Fayette and Cherokee is stupid, and goes against the conservative principle of smaller local control rather than larger central bureaucracy.
This legislation was the product of the GOP, so they get the main part of the blame. The D’s have no credibility either and their tendency for corruption and waste didn’t help the cause.
+1
Something that is essential or a priority can be and should be paid for out of the existing government revenue stream. If that means we break ground on projects more gradually, or that we — gasp! — cut other spending to pay for it, then let’s do that.
I tend to agree with you on 400 tolls.
“The existing government revenue stream”?? What stream is that?
+1!
The Democrats tendency towards corruption and waste? As compared to what? Republicans have little room to talk in the areas of corruption and waste. Laughable.
I really don’t want to hear the “Delta is ready when you are” line, because I’m glad it is and it has no effect on me as an insult as a “love it or leave it” attitude. But all of this just confirms that I should move forward with long-term plans to leave the metro area — for many reasons, not just transportation.
I think the vote reflects a general bitterness and anger that is worth understanding nationwide, as much as I find it misdirected. Parties shift back and forth over time, and perhaps the reasonable republicans getting booted out by the tea party will join up with some fiscally conservative dems and work together to present an alternative to tea party purity. Put out a better product and people will generally embrace it.
I know the sky isn’t falling, but it feels like it. All of the national headlines about this State have sucked lately. Our big local corporations are run by bigots. Rich whities circling their wagons. Transportation referendums being trounced.
I know there are examples of progressive people in this State, but they just don’t seem to be shining right now.
Or the sky may be falling. You forgot violent weather trends lately and icebergs breaking off from Greenland due to global warming. I try to convey optimism to my children because hopelessness and cynicism isn’t going to get us out of all this, but it’s not easy.
The sky is falling.
The ongoing pattern of disinvestment by GA republicans has set this state back, well off the trajectory it was once on.
This region is not the attractive place it was 20 years ago.
63% voted No. You can’t pin this on either party. I can think of numerous reasons why both parties are at fault.
Our big local corporations are run by bigots.
________________________________
Seriously, you are calling the CEOs of Delta, Coke, UPS, Home Depot, Newell-Rubbermaid, Rock-Tenn, and others bigots? All of them?
I believe my comment, when placed in the context of the phrase “the sky is falling,” was clearly meant to be hyperbole. And surely you would infer that I was talking about CFA. I was thinking in terms of how people in other parts of the Country, without more local knowledge, would look at the biggest headlines coming out of Georgia and think “what the hell is going on down there!?”
We should also note that Atlanta is a uniquely difficult place to do regional planning of any sort. One of the most frustrating things I see in the US is the multiple layers of administrative responsibility that hampers good regional planning. In my fantasy world (the one I’ll share here), County lines would better reflect meaningful regional units. Atlanta wouldn’t be this patchwork of counties. Heck, while I’m at it, if there needed to be an intermediary level between people and the county (I mean, I live in and like Decatur), then it would be broken into administrative units that didn’t leave places unincorporated. This ad hoc organization (now with Brookhaven…) is just crazy.
And don’t get me started on police – county, city, sheriff, capitol, university, and on and on and on…
Go here for a well-written history and explanation of why Georgia has so many counties:
http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/countyhistory.htm
Back in the 1990s, the late Rep. Kil Townsend proposed reducing our 159 counties to a more manageable number that ranged from 87 to 111 counties. But with so many political fiefdoms at stake, his idea went nowhere.
The irony here is that the tea party, who profess such strident opposition to tyranny and business-as-usual pork politics, have just made the GA governor the most powerful (economic) man in the state.
It never fails to amaze how these people have such an uncanny ability to act against their own best interests each and every time.
When faced with a choice between upholding the rhetoric of their tightly held politico-social views and their own self-interest, Americans tend to select the rhetoric. It always surprises me. Sometimes that’s good, lately not so much.
They also want a whole lot of things that they don’t want to pay for, which is kind of ironic given their hatred of “welfare moms”.
Astute. It seems to be human nature to feel entitled. The “Me” generation or generations grow up to want handouts and easy outs…including heritage” admission to college, jobs due to who they know, tax breaks, performance bonuses, early and long, lucrative retirements, etc. I guess we all begin as helpless newborns for whom everything is given so it’s easy to see how an understandable desire for security can get distorted into entitlement. The roads, water, sanitation, public health protection, clean air, good schools should just be there for me for free because I need them. Or because I’m so deserving and smart and I went to college, got a good job, and work hard at it (just like millions of other adults).
Luckily, there are other instincts in the human soul and social and cultural pressures to earn one’s own way, serve others, and contribute to a community. The political dialogue has just tipped the other way. So how do we tip it back to “Ask not what your country can do for you, but………”?
Opposing a sizeable tax increase is not the same thing as opposing all taxes. No one is advocating repealing all taxes and getting all public goods for free, which is of course impossible. But keep flogging that strawman if it makes you feel better.
I was referring to true haters, extreme Tea Partyers not reasonable people with reasonable, albeit not unanimous, views. We all have some sense of entitlement, it’s a matter of degree and obviously we all judge that degree differently. Adolescents question parents’ sense of entitlement to set limits. Parents question adolescents sense of entitlement to free meals and support with only modest chores!
As a native of the Atlanta area, I had a feeling this was going to go down in defeat and it’s based on history.
1. Atlanta had street cars but replaced them with buses.
2. We only created MARTA in the late 60s and it is hobbled with limited funding.
3. Gwinnett and Cobb, both with large populations, rejected MARTA, I believe, based on racial fears
4. We have too many local governments, which makes getting anything done on a regional level nearly impossible.
5. The DOT has always been about building roads, roads and more roads.
Atlanta has been, and will always be, a car-based town. I don’t like it but that’s the way it is. For better or worse, we decided to built infrastructure that favors the automobile. The problem with that is that the more cars we put on the road, the more our air quality worsens and perpetuates our sprawl. But I don’t see anything changing anytime soon. It’s depressing.
+100
I guess this means the Clifton Corridor is dead? Is there any “plan B” to save it?
“I guess this means the Clifton Corridor is dead? Is there any “plan B” to save it?”
I’d say it’s dead. I think any Plan B will focus on existing rail and not on expansion.
There is no Plan B.
Here’s Plan B:
Emory University expands their CLIF bus service, connecting Emory University Hospital Midtown (Crawford Long) to the campus/CDC/VA/Decatur system with Grady Memorial Hospital eventually included in the network.
Glad the voting is over. Now take down all your signs!!
Except for Walmart.
The idea of blaming one party or another for this is nonsense. Just silly.
If the “product” stinks, it deserves to be defeated.
If the product is good, but the messaging is bad, then the “yes” contingent should ask why they weren’t able to make a better, more compelling argument.
Sorry, but I don’t ask why consumers are self loathing idiots when they don’t buy my products (OK, maybe I do briefly.) I ask myself what I could have done better. How can I improve the product or the message to get the deal.
Yes, you can grumble and say it’s more complicated than that for TSPLOST; but really, it’s not.
+1. In the marketplace of ideas, Fox News is winning. Better to figure out why and do better vs. hate the people who are listening.
Propaganda != ideas
The specific measure that we voted on was the product of the one party that owns the legislative process. And it was put forth as a referendum because that party is held hostage by Grover Norquist and unable to even consider passing any kind of tax increase. They had to craft a bill that made it the voters’, not lawmakers’, decision to raise taxes.
The Democrats are corrupt, wasteful, and thus have no credibility on this either. But make no mistake – this particular vote was on a GOP bill.
As I have said, the Legislature kicked the can down the road in such a fashion as to absolve themselves of any blame.
Based on Tuesday’s voting, it appears there is still a chance that a casino will be built in a former industrial site off I-85 near Jimmy Carter Blvd. How in the world would that additional traffic be handled, in what is already one of the worst bottlenecks in Georgia?
Here’s what outsiders looking in had to say:
http://www.governing.com/blogs/fedwatch/What-The-Georgia-Vote-Means-for-the-Future-of-Transportation.html