No Dogs Allowed
Decatur Metro | October 1, 2010 | 9:30 am
From October’s Decatur Focus…
“Our restaurant owners asked us to explain why dogs are no longer allowed in patio areas. The DeKalb County Health Department, the agency responsible for environmental health regulation of our restaurant industry, received complaints about dogs in outside dining areas. As a result, several of our restaurants received citations and dogs are now prohibited in outdoor dining areas.”
Photo courtesy of Decatur Square Condos at Glenlake Park
I hate that! Dogs being allowed at the patio edge of the U-Joint is one of the reasons I love that place. There are several resturants in Decatur we go to over others because we can bring our dog with us. It’s great to go for a walk and have brunch, lunch or dinner with our dog.
Who do I complain to about people wearing shorts in a public dining area? I mean, come on…if you don’t shave your legs, at least wear a hair net on them! (This should go for uncovered arms too.)
Secondly, outdoor eating areas under trees are unsanitary. Think of the bugs, the dirt, the birds!
Thirdly, how thoroughly do they clean the outdoor furniture? It’s got to be worse than a hotel restaurant.
Fourthly, why do they allow cars to drive by outdoor patio areas? Don’t they realize the hazards? Vehicular traffic and eating establishments should have significant buffer zones.
Fifthly, I give up on eating….PERIOD. If something is going to kill me, it sure as heck won’t be FOOD!
Venting done. Cary on.
I do not not like to eat with other people’s pets around. Most people don’t realize their pets have a bad smell. Some pets are better left home because they don’t behave (e.g barking, getting under foot, and snapping at other dogs). I think no dogs allowed is a great policy.
John, it’s very simple. If you don’t want to eat around dogs, don’t go to a place that allows it.
Walrus. Great comment. But John has another option. John, consider tolerance and dine closer to the building or inside the building.
First they came for the unruly children and I said nothing, because I was paying good coin for that meal and that unsupervised little spazz was ruining it for me. But then they came for the dogs…
As someone who worked in restaurants for years, trust me. There are plenty of reason that make dogs inappropriate dining companions for many people. I have been witness to more than one dog biting or attempted dog biting of other customers ( including a friend of mine who had been coming into the bar in Midtown where I worked with his dog for years. One day the dog just randomly attacked another customer and bit him badly. Dog had never done it before (or since) or showed aggression and the guy was pretty much minding his own business too), fights among dogs, urinating and defecating dogs, barking dogs, stinking dogs and customers with severe allergy complaints. Just because you want to eat with your dog, that doesn’t mean everyone else dining wants to deal with your dog. No different than having to put up with jerks who can’t control their kids in my opinion.
Nellie; With all due respect, I could take your post and replace “dogs” with “friends” or “people”, and “barking” with a human equivalent, it would accurately reflect the sentiment of everyone I know who’s worked in restaurants or bars.
Yeah but those are paying customers. And they can be asked to leave and no on is allergic to them.
Really? You’ve seen people bite other customers?
Well, I HAVE been been bitten by customers in bars before – not restaurants- but I usually wanted to be bitten
This is what freedom is all about. Business has the freedom to make a policy allowing or disallowing dogs; you have the freedom to patronize (or not) the establishment. It is very simple.
Boo! Boo!
There is zero evidence that a dog on the patio even remotely approaches a health threat. If you don’t like the dogs, you’re certainly free to complain or not patronize the restaurant. But it should be up to the proprietor to determine his dog policy (hmm. maybe we have convenient scapegoat?). But try calling the health department on obnoxious kids or asking for no-kids policy at a restaurant. I think your options are a little different?
Almost very anecdote described here could easily be applied to ill-behaved people. Next time I have to sit next to a barking b**ch on the patio, I’m calling the Dekalb County Health Department and making them cite her or, at least, make her quite barking so loud into her cell phone.
Zero evidence? If a dog poops or urinates on the patio, that’s no health threat? Or if a dog bites another customer, no health threat?
Diane, if you don’t like it, don’t go there. What gives you the right to have the govt. enforce your preferences over the preferences of others?
Walrus, the health department already has the rule, so Diane’s perfectly within her rights to insist people obey the rule.
I don’t think that was her point. The point for me is, why the rule to begin with?
Well, I think others have said it fairly: it’s probably a small percentage of dogs or dog owners who have ruined it for others.
Agreed, but shouldn’t it then be up to the RESTAURANTS to make the rule if they so choose?
Not if it is an issue of public health or safety. If someone has complained about aggressive or unsanitary dogs, then no.
Couldn’t disagree more.
Yes, the government will take your guns.
All I was doing was refuting the point that there was “zero evidence” that dogs in a restaurant pose any threat to health. I am not a pet owner; I have no beef with this one way or another. But I hate to see someone state something that isn’t accurate.
And there is a HUGE difference between an annoying child and a dog.
There is? Oh yeah– to me those poorly behaved kids are a hellava lot MORE annoying. And sadly, but not surprisingly, their parents are as well.
The child is a person, and responsible parents may not leave that child at home. A dog can be left at home all day. Surely you’re not arguing that you think dogs should have more rights in our society than children, are you?
Yes – zero evidence here that any of this has happened… the pooping, peeing or biting. ? It is no less sanitary if a human or a canine does it. I’ve seen more people than dogs barf in public.
Brad, you said there was zero evidence that dogs pose any sort of health threat, not that there have been no reports of dogs biting or defecating in public. And I don’t know what evidence you need….I’m sure that some dog, somewhere has peed or pooped in public.
I have no pets, I have no beef with eating next to pets. My children are teenagers and potty trained and don’t throw tantrums in public. I mostly can’t afford to eat in public any more.
Make whatever arguments you like. But I think it’s not accurate to say that a dog or other animal would post absolutely no threat to health if allowed to wander around in a restaurant.
Hmm… There are a handful of outdoor patios that my wife and I like taking our well behaved six pound dog to in the Fall and Spring. Ah, well… There are several in Fulton that we like too, and they will be getting our business.
Kudos, JP! And our family (me, my husband, and our dog – along with our dining $$$ ) will be right behind you!
Thanks, JP! One less person I have to wait behind at Taqueria!
bleh. Enjoy. I’d rather eat a dog burger.
Bringing children into a discussion about dogs on restaurant patios is kind of childish.
I would’ve said it was dogmatic.
These are very ruff characterizations of the issue.
Hmm…perhaps we should paws before we “Speak!”
Down, Cuba! Good Girl!
[pats lovingly on the head]
so these people patronize a restaurant they allegedly like so much, they want to continue to patronize it, but only under their conditions, so they complain and make their supposed well-liked restaurant get a citation. way to go, guys!
i agree it should be left up to the restaurant to set their own policies on smoking, children being allowed or not after 9:00 and dogs. the only place i ever took my dog was Twain’s or Universal Joint. They obviously liked that dogs came to the restaurants because they had their own water dishes set out for you to use.
I always made sure to sit somewhere far enough removed that if someone didn’t like dogs, i wouldn’t encroach on their personal dog-free space. I also have a well-behaved dog or i wouldn’t have taken her. she doesn’t stink, either!
I’d choose to eat with my dogs over most people on any given day. Especially the people who complain about eating with dogs.
How disappointing! We’ve always appreciated the U-Joint, in part, for being dog-friendly. I guess this will apply to Dancing Goats – another favorite – as well.
I have been to very fancy restaurants in Europe where dogs were even allowed INSIDE the restaurant, even sitting on the furniture! No one seemed bothered by it nor did they die from some random dog-related illness.
The presence of pets has been proven to calm people down & lower blood pressure. I like nothing better than to go to a restaurant with outdoor seating & see people there with their well-behaved dogs. Live & let live!
Re Europe: Friends who lived in Germany for several years with little children said that dogs were welcome in restaurants where children were not. They found Germany to be very child-unfriendly. Children are considered too unruly, messy, unpredictable to be seen in public. German dogs evidently were not.
Re dogs in restaurants: Probably a few owners who didn’t control their dogs ruined it for everyone. My son was terrified of dogs at one point when he was real little. Usually, I could reassure him that the dog was sitting in its place and wasn’t going to be able to bother him, nor probably wanted to. But every once in a while some frisky, uncontrolled dog would jump on my son and make him phobic again for another few months.
Re: Europe Ofcourse children weren’t welcome in restaurants in Germany. Haven’t you ever seen Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?
Sometimes… it just depends on the dog. Or how MANY dogs there are. Or how “under control” each dog is. Or if someone brings their cat, or gerbil, or mouse. It all depends. What I don’t understand is why some people can’t seem to go ANYwhere without dragging their poor dog(s) along. Is the dog happy to be there? Who knows?
Chira, my friends and I have a name for those people: “Puppy Pullers.”
There’s a fine line. People need to be socialized. So do dogs. I’ve seen many a well trained/behaved dog up at the U Joint. And I’ve also seen some dogs that are both a nuisance and a hazard.
Hmm..
There needs to be dog friendly places, kid friendly places, and those where neither are welcome. : ] That way, people can choose, and take their chances …that said,
I agree with Nellie. Dogowners — and parents alike — think they’re pet/child is perfect and everyone loves them like they do .. ..and that’s not necessarily so. It’s too bad the health department had to step in …
But I will argue that I would take a well-behaved pup over a screaming kid any day, Talk about germs! Those toddlers are oozing germs at all orafices! I should know — I have four of them, and even though they’re now grown, they still aren’t the most hygenic beings on the planet
My beloved Chesapeake was so much more well-mannered, and listened when I called her, unlike my children … she has gone on dog heaven, and we mourn her every day…
P.S. Don’t say they are banning dogs from Goats ?!)
Complain, complain, complain. I love my dog. But other people might not love my dog the way I do. Dog-owners should 1) understand the policy and 2) respect the policy.
I’d be mad as hell if I was about to take a bite of my juicy hamburger and someone else’s pet (or my own) decided it was hungry.
Yes. Burger grabbing dogs are a threat to our American way of life.
If your dog is seizing your food, I don’t think it’s the dog’s fault.
No one said anything about a threat to the “American way of life.”
My dog doesn’t “seize my food.” She’s not the one I’m worried about. But thanks for the insult.
How would you like a dog to grab your food while you are on a patio?
Wow, Bulldog. JT was only kidding about that first part. But in case you missed his second point, if a dog grabs your food, it’s NOT the dog’s fault, it’s the owner’s– for not controlling his pet (or feeding it before bringing it out to a public restaurant). No, I don’t want dogs grabbing my food, either, but if one did, it wouldn’t be the dog who got reamed.
Wow, cubalibre, you missed my point. (Because I did catch the second point).
I don’t care whose fault it is – the dog’s or the owner’s.
Regardless, there is no reason to have the debate because the dog isn’t allowed on the patio.
Seems kinda silly, when debating the merits or reasonableness of a law, to defend it by saying simply “that’s the law”!
Why don’t you take it up with the health department instead of arguing with me? You can complain and moan all you want on this message board but unless you’re doing something about it in the “real world” you’re not getting anything accomplished.
Can’t we do both, Bulldog? What’s wrong with a little community debate? Further, if this debate angers you so much (and clearly it does), why engage to begin with?
Mea culpa! You’re right Bully. Thanks so much for that dose of reality. I will immediately leave this cyber-bit*$ session and go make some change in that big ol’ real world….
As soon as I figure out how to extract my tongue from my tongue from my cheek.
I didn’t miss your point. You missed mine, which was that your point was rather humorless and pointed. 😀
Folks who don’t like the policy, rather than ranting here, should take it up with DeKalb Health Department, who are enforcing a legal policy.
I still don’t understand why kids at restaurants were brought into a discussion about no dogs in restaurants.
I do agree that dogs should be allowed at certain places, but I would not go to those places. I am still afraid of dogs after seeing my Dad get attached out of the blue while jogging when I was a kid. Do you think I would enjoy sitting next to a dog at at restaurant? Not to mention, I think having any sort of pet at a restaurant is unsanitary and unsafe (if the dog were to attack someone).
There is a small correlation. Out of control animals in restaurants are annoying. Out of control children in restaurants are annoying. People simply want to enjoy their meal with a minimum amount of hassle.
If you child and your pet are under control, then obviously you wouldn’t be offended by this and it doesn’t apply to you.
I’m a dog owner and lover, and luckily I can take her many other places she enjoys going. Car rides and parks thrill her to death. If I need to eat with her, I’ll still be able to do that at home.
Lame.
If you don’t like it don’t go there. Simple. Why force your beliefs on everyone else. If an establishment wants to let dogs sit on the patio it should be able to.
Way to ruin it.
So, is this policy being applied to all Dekalb restaurants now? I won’t be eatting out very much in Dekalb County if that is the case. I’m with JP, Fulton County, here I come with my restaurant dollars!
I understand that some dogs are poorly behaved and should not be at a restaurant. On the other hand, my dog is well behaved. He sits under the table and is completely silent during the entire meal. He has never bothered anyone at a restaurant, EVER. And, he is cleaner than probably 70% of human beings. I take him to restaurants because he loves to go to new places and people watch. It makes him really happy to be out and about and part of the crowd.
I’ve seen bad dogs and I’ve seen bad people at restaurants. Don’t even get me started about this time when I was at Sushi Avenue, where space is tight and tables are close…a baby at the table next to me barfed down her mother’s arm and the mother was so oblivious that she left it there for half the meal before she even noticed it….talk about gross! Even though this experience was pretty bad, I would never, ever say that babies should be banned from restaurants. Part of living in a city is tolerating things that don’t make you 100% happy and people that are different from you. If a person can’t live and let live, maybe that person should move to the country where he can be away from the stuff that bothers him.
I imagine that, strictly speaking, it applies statewide. It may be a matter of which counties choose to enforce it.
Maybe this should be another story for CBS NEWS – “Nearly Expired Cheese Fed to Dogs”.
This is great!
Dogs are not people’s children, for heaven’s sake. They are ANIMALS. People are allergic. Even the best trained dog can be unpredictable. Some people don’t like dogs or any sort of ANIMAL. Why should they have to tolerant someone’s pet? Tolerating another, albeit small, member of your species is not the same thing. I have three dogs myself, and as much as I love them (and have for 13, 11 and 10 very very expensive years) they ain’t my kid.
To be honest, I don’t particularly care either way on the patio thing. I was mostly playing devil’s advocate above, because I can see both sides and have seen a couple of pretty bad dog on patio incidences. But the dog defenders and the children analogy is just out of proportion. And not going to places because your DOG can’t go? Jeez. It’s like the poster that said Garlic Thai is not kid-friendly because her kid was screeching and people asked to be moved away from it.
I also don’t think kids should be in bars past 5 pm (hell, I think bars are for grown ups and when I am in a bar, I want a kid free zone, but I am obviously in the minority) and when my kid acts up in a restaurant, he’s out of there. I even clean up the mess he makes on the floor. That baby’s mother at Sushi Avenue should have been asked to clean up or leave like a grown up and you had every right to complain about it. How awful of her to not even notice.
So a kid sitting quietly in a bar with his family at 6:30pm bothers you?
Mostly because of my own past desires to behave inappropriately! But I honestly don’t complain except internally!
Why are these parents taking a kid to a bar anyway? Talk about horrible parents, getting their kids drunk and taking animals places!
THIS IS WHY WE CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS!
hahaha
I gotta say it’s hard to bash parents knowing there are responsive parents out there like Nellie that appropriately deal with issues if they should arise. I actually really appreciate that.
I have never said anything to a parent, but I have been really close. I’m amazed at how some people can be so oblivious to their children’s needs/behavior. Your child may be tired and cranky and I do feel for you. But I would like to enjoy my meal ear piercing shrill free.
I really have to bite my tongue every time this comes up. I feel I have pretty much said my part here and there. But dang it, it’s Friday. I couldn’t help myself.
THANK YOU.
I’ve never understood the “we have kids and we’re going out to eat, but we’ll also let the kids run around and/or be loud and destroy the ambiance for everyone else”. Alas i think it’s partly because parents don’t spank or punish their kids anymore.
Some people are allergic to perfume. Some people are allergic to peanuts. That doesn’t mean that we ban those things from restaurants. The people with the allergies have to do what they need to do to keep healthy. That is on them. If a person is so allergic to dogs that he cannot be outside near one, then he probably isn’t living in Decatur- dogs are everywhere!
And, as far as people not liking dogs, people have all sorts of dislikes, fears, and phobias. We can’t regulate for that. Asking society to conform around an individual’s (or even many individuals’) personal preferences is rediculous.
When did this absolute NEED to bring your dog into a restaurant come about?
I have a dog, she is well behaved, and I have taken her to several patios over the years.
But people vowing to boycott restaurants because their dog cannot go? Really?
People choose to go or not to go to a restaurant for all sorts of reasons- they like or don’t like the food, they love or hate buffets, they want something quiet or loud, the decor is their taste or not, they want to go somewhere away from kids, they want to go somewhere that is kid-friendly, they like the owner, they hate the owner, etc, etc, etc.
I happen to like to eat with my dog, so I will be choosing dog-friendly establishments. That is my preference.
Pet patios were a nice perk that are no longer available in Dekalb. If people feel compelled to penalize the restaurant by no longer patronizing it, that’s their choice.
I love absolutely every minute I spend with dog, but I’m not going to base my dining decisions on where she can eat also. I tend go by the quality of food, and service. If they allow dogs great, if not, I’ll still go.
Where do people who only eat with their dogs go when it’s 32 degrees out and the patios are closed?
I guess I just don’t understand the huge revolt here.
Excellent points.
Then Nellie. You make your choice. Don’t bring your dog. Don’t bring your kids after 5. Be respectful of others rights to make their choices. Isn’t Decatur about tolerance?
So your right to bring your kid in a bar – a place obviously designed around adults – at happy hour outweighs my right to have a good time with other grown ups without having to curtail my language or behavior or feel really uncomfortable because why? I am actually trying to open this up a little further; I am not disagreeing with you or attacking at all. Promise.
I’ve noticed- and this thread is such a perfect example of it- that the modern American often has a twisted view – and I am NOT saying you fall into this, David- of the concept of rights. We have so gotten it into our heads that we have the inalienable right to this or that that the whole concept of other people and the concept of community standards is evaporating. The reason regulation and law and standards and, heck, even manners have evolved over the centuries is that the “Wild West” version of man -unhindered and unregulated- just simply does not lead to a civil society and people simply cannot co-exist without understood, shared, common rules.
People who don’t like something are being told to tolerate it. But why should they anymore than the other side? The excuse these days is really becoming market-based- the business has a right to do what it wants. Well, no. A business has a right to operate within the standards and within the laws of the community. Now, it’s perfectly reasonable to debate, disagree with and change those laws. I think everyone agrees with that. The business is not an person- conflating the business and the owner is one of the most dangerous concepts running around these days- it’s an entity. But this idea is also translating to the individual- I have the right to do what and you need to tolerate it. That’s not true either.
Sorry for the inarticulate babble, especially since it isn’t directly dog related, but I have really been thinking about this a lot lately and this thread is causing me to think a bit. I’d like to hear other opinions, but I don’t even know if I have set my thoughts out well enough to open a debate.
One point of clarification. Decatur doesn’t really have bars, in the danceteria, beer-goggles, pick-up go-to for young, horny people sense. We have pubs, or public houses, where, historically speaking, children are entirely welcome, as are entire families.
Because the presence of children isn’t regulated, we have a variety of pubs with their own way of dealing with kids. Some openly welcome them. Some make high chairs sparse. Thinking Man is very explicit: Your child is welcome if they’re on board with the fact that adults are there to drink, talk and have a good time. And only until 9pm. If you’re kid wants to flex his “kid instincts,” you’re more than welcome to take him or her somewhere else.
The point is, pubs in Decatur approach children in a similar way to how a lot of folks here are suggesting we should approach dogs: have a general policy, set expectations for customers, and be clear about the kind of place you are.
I don’t want to get into the legal debate of whether dogs should or shouldn’t be allowed. The point is, I’ve never had a problem with dogs at restaurants in Decatur because it was always pretty clear where they’re welcome. When I go somewhere, I know what to expect. And that’s pretty much the key to having a decent experience.
I am not really talking specific regulations- I am more talking about how we as a culture- collectively- perceive the concept of rights- ours vs everyone elses. Like I said, not articulating it well.
I have to agree with NB here. This whole it’s my right to do any bleeping thing I please because it makes me happy, has gone a little overboard.
And as DM pointed out- At least once every two weeks pretty much like clockwork you get the, if you don’t like it, move to the burbs comments.
Which translates to:
This city should be exactly as I vision it, and if you don’t like it, get the “heck” out!!!!!!!!! Mine! Mine! Mine!
I can’t remember posting so many times on one subject but this is my main issue with the prevailing attitude here…
These restaurants have shown extremely good will allowing people to bring their dogs over the years. Not many do. To suddenly jump ship on them considering their good will and efforts to make patrons happy, is just wrong. Period
Perhaps rights was an inappropriate word. Rather it seems to that when we begin discussions of many topics like this one for example, we select a this vs. that view. I suggest that we can have a this and that view. At the ujoint for example. Facing a previous complaint the Ujoint was forced to post a “no dog” policy. Following calls to the Dekalb County Commission, Decatur City Government and Dekalb County Health Department by pro-dog Oakhurst citizens, the Dekalb County Health dept relented and allowed the Ujoint to allow dogs along the perimeter of the patio. That seemed a reasonable compromise. Therefore, the customer wanting to avoid dogs could dine in the interior of the patio or inside the restaurant while allowing dog owners to bring their dogs to restaurant as well.
Our community is diverse. It seems to that there is a place in Oakhurst and Decatur for many expressions of this diversity including Dog Friendly restaurant patios.
It’s hard to prove or know whether “ours vs. everyone else’s” is any different now as in the past. But it’s not difficult to see how communication channels today make such statements and conversations much more visible than in the past.
And I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.
Your post is actually very interesting to me Nellie. From your previous posts over the months I have been paying attention, if I had to guess, you are a social liberal (as am I). Two of my co-workers are right wing social conservatives. In our discussion of gay marriage, for example, they use the exact arguments you made in this post. Point being: be careful, that mentality could be used to prevent things that you think some has the “right” to do.
Wow, really?? This just been bothering me lately, separately from Decatur Metro at all. I guess it is the much larger construct of where your rights begin and another person’s rights end. I think we often confuse federal, constitutionally granted rights with our rights to behave a certain way in public or public-ish places- you don’t have right to free speech in my house if I find you objectionable but you do have a LEGAL right to march in a KKK rally and enjoy certain limited protection from the government to behave in this manner. Maybe DM is right- there are just more places to yell about this stuff now…
By this point, we’ve been around the “I thought Decatur prided itself on being a tolerant city!” block a good number of times. It was actually one of the most regularly stated comments on the site early on.
My first question was always “who is this “Decatur” that you speak of?” Is it the collective voice of the community? Or just the rumor going around campus? And secondly, I value tolerance (to a point) as much as the next person, but I think HONESTY is equally valuable. And while face-to-face conversations have a great deal of value in modern society, honesty isn’t always easy. Sure anonymity breeds trolls and crazies, but it also allows some people, once out-numbered but with equally valued points of view, a voice in any number of important and never settled debates.
Actually, with the current 24hr new-content cycle, the trolls and crazies don’t even bother with anonymity anymore!
Coming very late to the party, but wanted to second what nellie said about the larger issue. Agree that reasonable people can disagree about the law and how/whether it should be changed. The more fascinating aspect of this whole discussion is the part about who is entitled to trample on whose rights. IMO it boils down to simple good manners. Why would a person insist on doing something in a public place that they know is likely to reduce or eliminate somebody else’s enjoyment of that public place? It’s a fact that not all dogs are sufficiently clean, well-behaved, or closely supervised to qualify as acceptable dining companions. (The same goes for people, it turns out, both grown-ups and kids, but dealing with that is magnitudes more complicated.) Every dog owner–(and every parent of a young child, IMO)–should operate on the assumption that nobody else thinks your darling is quite as darling as you do. Rein ’em in when circumstances call for it.
Good manners hinge on a few key concepts. One is that just because you are entitled to do something, doesn’t mean you should. Another is that everyone will adhere to a simple rule: “I will do my best to tolerate your lapses in judgment/taste/courtesy AND I will do my best not to call on you to do the same.”
BTW, in my dream world the owner of the sandwich-stealing dog at Steinbeck’s would have apologized profusely, picked up the check for Dan’s entire party, and put the dog back on its leash and himself/herself in time out. I’m betting that’s not what happened.
Good manners! What a great concept. As Southerners, we’re supposed to be polite. That’s one cultural stereotype I’d like to promote. Think it’ll catch on?
Parden me for interrupting you, honey.
I’d argue that “good manners” are really just a by-product of a strong community. As such, I’d argue that overall, Decatur’s manners are better than they are most places in Atlanta. And especially better than in the burbs. I mean, why go out of your way to be nice to someone you’ll probably never have any connection or contact with?
I think it’s easy to get overwhelmed in a theoretical conversation about trampling rights, using isolated examples to justify positions, while ignoring the countless, unmentioned good deeds done by Deaturites every day.
I once posted a report from someone who recounted a good deed they eye-witnessed on Ponce. (I can’t recall the exact details.) I wish I got more of those, because I would definitely post them. We just don’t hear about them as frequently.
Take your restaurant dollars as far away as you want. But remember: you’re doing nothing but hurting your local economy if you do.
As much as you like your dog being with you at a restaurant, there are people in this world who don’t appreciate seeing an animal at a restaurant (no matter how well-behaved your dog is).
“there are people in this world who don’t appreciate seeing an animal at a restaurant”
Then don’t go there! I don’t understand why this is a difficult concept.
Look, Walrus: I am one of those people who wouldn’t mind having my dog, or anyone else’s dog, for that matter, next to me on a patio. But I am respectful of the fact that not everyone feels that way.
I don’t understand why THIS is such a difficult concept.
I get that some people don’t like it; very clear on that. Can’t they just choose not to go to a restaurant that allows it? Why do they think that their preference trumps the preference of a restaurant owner? Why do they think it’s ok to have the govt. enforce that preference?
Ask the Health Department.
Indeed.
Sure, people can decide that they won’t patronize a restaurant with dogs hanging around, but what about when those dogs aren’t around? The FDA law (yes, apparently it’s a federal law) seems most concerned about dogs pooping and peeing on the floor and employees touching dogs without washing their hands. So I guess the argument is that if animals in restaurants is deemed “unhealthy”, then there has to be a law to enforce it. Sure people could make their own decisions if those animals were there all the time, but what if you’re just passing through and there’s nothing there to indicate there were animals there? How do individuals make informed decisions then?
I’m not arguing either way on this particular issue, I’m just trying to answer your question about the necessity of government enforcement.
Fair enough, but the easiest and least intrusive solution to your scenario would be to require restaurants to post sign that state that they allow dogs on the premises. Then, informed decisions for all!
I thought of that, but then of course the question is: who will enforce the signage??
The same folks that enforce the “all employees must wash hands before returning to work” signs.
Oooh, which invites the question – which are dirtier: people or dogs?
Haha, I guess that depends on the person and the dog! It could go either way.
Thanks for posting the link. Apparently the dog ban is not a “federal law” as indicated but rather a set of proposed best practices. States and municipalities may or may not adopt federal guidelines as indicated in the story you posted providing both an Los Angeles and Florida case where dogs are allowed on patios or indeed in restaurants.
I’ve lived in Oakhurst for over 10 years and the more suburban types that are moving here are ruining it. Go back to Gwinnett or Cobb so you cab have your squeaky clean lives. Dogs have been welcome at the U-Joint for years without any problems. Thanks for spoiling a good thing.
I’m impressed it took 40 comments to get to the “if you don’t like it, move!” comment.
I’d just say don’t be so sure it’s “the others”. Have you vetted all your long-time Decatur friends on this particular topic? You might find you come to blows! 😉
Based on this thread, I surprisingly think you are right about that, DM.
Humph. I have lived in Oakhurst for nearly 15 years. I want to decide who gets kicked out.
woah now, if we’re doing this, i think i’m one of the few left who were born ITP and still live here lol, i get a say in kicking out the OTPers
Okay, start kickin’. I’ve been in Decatur since I was a mere baby in ’89. Can I get a turn wearing the big kicking shoe????
You were a babe in 89? Having been born in 71–at Georgia Baptist–and having moved to Decatur after graduating from high school in 89, I say, stand in line, Nellie ;). You’re still a baby in Decatur
oddly enough, Ga Baptist is apartments now. I thought I was the only one in the city who was born here and still lives here! There are a few of us left! haha
I wouldn’t assume this is an Oakhurst thing. The article says it’s a DeKalb county law, and the complaints could have come from anywhere in the county.
Besides, Oakhurst is substantially just poor people. It’s true, I read that here.
One of my fondest memories of Decatur was a lunch at the St. Agnes Tea Room when there was a loose peacock wandering among the tables. I fed it my roll. It was caged the next time I went back, and they told me it was health inspector issues. I understood, but the place was never the same.
I forgot about that!
That peacock snatched every roll – not just those of customers who meant to feed him. A gorgeous bird but he was a menace in the dining area.
St Agnes Tea Room – that’s a blast from the past – good food, super cool setting.
Where was it?
Howard, between Decatur School of Ballet and Dairy Queen. Actually in the back yard of what is now the women’s shelter. The whole complex used to be a youth hostel and a kind of an arty/boho hang out scene.
Didn’t the actual building burn down ? After the Tea Room closed it was a music club or something but then there was a big fire.
I remember a broken down double decker bus parked in front and something about Elvis – a statue ? – in the back yard. Arty/boho just scratches the surface in describing that place. Lots of interesting characters hanging out – backpackers from far flung corners of the world who were staying at the hostel. And of course that peacock . At one time I knew his name but can’t remember it now.
I think Benedicte who owns Cafe Alsace was the chef at the Tea Room.
After St. Agnes Tea Room closed, it was home to My Sister’s Room. I believe the fire happened when it occupied the space.
Yep, that’s what happened!
oh man, MSR, the nights where under 21s would hop the fence and pretend they’d been there the whole time when the bouncer would take his flashlight and do a sweep of the fenceline.
I believe that Elvis statue you’re remembering was actually an airstream trailer (they had several set up around the yard) that had lots of paint (inside and out) and kitchy modern art in homage to the King. It was really fun.
Ohhhh, I miss this place! Even the evil annoying peacock. It reminded me so much of Blue Moon in Key West and confirmed for me Decatur was the place to be!
Ah, those were definitely the days! Very fond memories of that place…
Not sure I see what all the fuss is here. I’ve had many good experiences with animals in restaurants, including cows, chickens, pigs, and ducks. Not sure they felt the same way, however.
Haha! Well played Sir, well played.
Before you jump to conclusions that it was dog hating patrons that called the cops on UJ… earlier this year I was the recipient of quite a few complaints by senior citizens in the area about the dogs tied up at UJ. It caught me off guard as I have absolutely nothing to do with UJ, but was a person they felt they could raise their concerns to. They said they were literally scared to walk down the sidewalk there. I passed the concerns along.
As for the whole topic, the dogs don’t bother me but it absolutely is a health concern. If you don’t like the law, elect people who will change it. For me, my dog had to stay home when we went out. It was how she earned her keep.
Ah, I knew it, dangit– oldsters, running amok & ruining everything for everybody else. Why can’t they just stay home & sit in their rocking chairs, instead of insisting upon being active and suchlike???
What is the health department’s policy on bird poop (which is also bird pee)? And as far as that goes all of the other animals and bugs that may come be outside?
I want to see these birds cited and/or locked up! They are major health threats especially during the season – cold and bird flu season that is.
In a litigious society though how are you going to get money out of said bird if you are damaged by it? You have a very valid point however.
I am unsure about the bird. But it’s a good thing he is not a kangaroo.
I volunteer weekly at pet rescue shelter. I come into contact with more dog poop and pee in a day than most people will in a year or, in some unfortunately loosely-stooled days, a lifetime.
My anecdotal, but not dismissible, observation is that the health threat of dog poop and pee is nothing compared to human-born or food-born infections – especially when it appears as if the dogs at restaurants aren’t actually pooping or peeing at the restaurants.
Along those lines, the no elephant or tiger policies of the health department seems to be keeping the elephant and tiger attacks in Dekalb County restaurants to a minimum.
I am a frequent visitor to Decatur, my daughter lives there. Two places I love to go are Universal Joint and Dancing Goats–I enjoy seeing the dogs that are there. It is something about Decatur that sets it apart from other places, and I like it. I’ve noticed lots of dogs on or near the square, and it is one of the many things that give Decatur its unique personality that sets it apart from other more generic towns and cities. Please keep your traditions that make your town interesting, fun, a place any young family would be lucky to live and put down roots! I think it’s a mistake that people are becoming more and more germophobic–I don’t think these dogs are the great health and safety issue that’s being stated. I’m just an out-of-state visitor, but that’s the opinion of someone who loves to visit your town!
Once upon a time, a long time ago in another state, MY dogs and cats wandered in and out of our kitchen, dining room, etc. whether or not we were preparing food and serving it. BUT — that was our home. It was not a place of business with service for paying customers. I would never think of taking my family pet into a public restaurant, not even a patio location, because I know for a fact what kind of messes they make, how much hair they drop, and how capable they are of getting into things they shouldn’t. I don’t think any of them would enjoy being in a food place without having the freedom to do what they did at home, and I wouldn’t subject them to that experience — ESPECIALLY knowing that other people do not want animals in or near food preparation and service areas. When my son was not behaving properly in any public place, we quickly removed him. We felt lucky that the restaurants we went to observed proper hygiene and customer control, and we were respectful toward their policies re both. Not a problem unless you choose to make it one. By all means, take your restaurant business elsewhere if you can’t stand to have a meal without your dog in tow.
Just as responsible parents keep tabs on their children, responsible pet owners should keep tabs on their pets in public. We can’t assume that all dogs make messes and get into things they shouldn’t- it is quite possible to have a well-behaved dog at an outdoor eating area without causing any problems. And if the possibility of a dog arriving while you are eating is that large of a concern, there is always the entire inside portion of every restaurant that is dog-free. Dogs being on patios is also not a problem unless you make it one. Personally, I don’t like the idea of forcing others to stop doing something just because I don’t like it. Especially for something so benign.
well put
Well put, Chira. Not sure why it dropped below J’s.
Sometimes two or more people are entering comments at the same time, and so whoever gets to the finish line and clicks on “Submit Comment” gets the upper spot. Thanks for your compliment on what I wrote.
Drove by Felllinis in Candler park yesterday and saw 3 dog sitting on the sidewalk OUTSIDE the patio area, owners were inside patio (but still outside). That seemed to be okay…so is that a possible compromise? Looked pretty cute actually and everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves.
time to exploit this loophole as much as possible.
Speaking of loopholes, the other one I came across when trying to find the law against animals in restaurants, is that some people apparently just say that the dog is a “service animal”. From what I read, service dogs don’t technically need any identification and the owner doesn’t need to carry any proof, so the restaurant owner has to take you at your word.
Seems sorta desperate and ridiculous to me, but apparently some people use it.
(My comic book sense of humor imagines someone walking into a restaurant with a completely wild dog claiming he’s a service dog. The rest writes itself.)
Some people use it?
Only a pathetic excuse for a human would lie about having a life-threatening disability to exploit a law like this.
There are people who do have traditional and non traditional service animals. I.e. an agoraphobic who has a snake on his/her shoulder because it helps them tolerate crowds.
i can see it now
WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY GIRAFFE ISN’T A SERVICE ANIMAL?!?!
So a dog walks into a bar in Decatur.:
Bartender says: We have drink named after your hair.
Dog says: I’ll have dingleberry.
Ironically, the bartender refuses service to service dog and calls the Dekalb County Health Department because of “health” complaints.
In service to the public, the Vernon Jones-era visionaries euthanize the hard-drinking talking dog.
All you folks hoping to go to Fulton County restaurants with your dogs, don’t get your hopes up.
One of my favorite local places, Cypress Street Pint & Plate in Midtown allowed dogs on the patio until they had a complaint and Fulton County health department cited them. Now, no more dogs allowed.
It is obviously extremely selective enforcement, since there are numerous other places that still allow dogs in Midtown and sometimes even promote it – happy hours on the patio at several hotels and other establishments, for example…. But once a place is cited, they don’t want to risk a 2nd citation for the same thing.
I personally would like to know if there really is a specific reference to this in the health code, or if the citation just falls under some broad vague section about unsanitary conditions. I mean, this is NOT in the kitchen/food preparation area and I know that is the primary focus of health inspections and code requirements.
Dogs 85
No Dogs 15
I suspect there is a silent, no-dogs majority (smile)…
After further review, the ruling on the field stands. No dogs allowed on patios.
So let me make sure I understand your point, Bulldog: Once a law is in place, we should never discuss the merits of said law because it is already in place? Now, why haven’t I thought of that; my life would be so much happier! Thanks Bulldog!!!
I don’t know Bulldog, but I’m pretty sure that was a tongue-in-cheek football joke. It’s game day!
Correct, Rebecca. Apparently some people don’t have a sense of humor.
Oh, the irony, or whatever Alanis Morisette would call it…
This whole thread is making me like people less. And with Trackside still in rubble and Grog Shop long gone, I’m gonna have to go OCD (outside City of Decatur) to spend my discretionary booze budget to cope!
Don’t forget to take your dog! If you have a cat and ferret, take them too! If you see anyone with a snake or giraffe, it’s those guys from the posts above. Why the heck am I here? Bye
This is great news – I like dogs but never understood the appeal of shedding dog hair floating in the air & into people’s food and drinks.
I liked Decatur a lot better when we welcomed dogs and didn’t welcome kids. Boy how things have changed. It’s unfortunate.
I think we need a day of civil disobedience!
I support this message!
I’ll admit i’m perplexed as to how Decatur lost what seems to be all of its Family establishments and now has places for families. It seems most have went to midtown or east atlanta.
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread as don’t have a really strong opinion either way, but….
I wonder what the deal would be at the Brick Store, Sweet Melissa’s, or Starbucks on the square? All those places have outside seating, but it’s on the sidewalk as opposed to being a designated patio – can dogs hang out, or do they have to be banished from the sidewalk?
Being an owner of 2 dogs, I actually was ambivalent about having dogs on the patios of restaurants until tonight at Steinbeck’s when someones dog ran up and stole my daughter’s sandwich right out of her hand. My daughter was not playing with or enticing the dog, she just happend to be nearby and nobody was watching the dog while it snuck under the table to get her food.
It could have just as easily (and unintentionally) bitten her hand as it grabbed the sandwich.
In thinking about it, it is pretty ridiculous to have dogs wandering around unleashed while there are people eating and their owners are off drinking on the other side of the patio.
was this unleashed dog with someone eating there? or just an unleashed dog wandering the neighborhood?
Unleashed, owner on the other side of the patio.
So is the issue the dog at the restaurant on the dog of the leash? They seem to me different problems.
As well as my spelling is a problem. Sorry.
I would choose c – “most of the above”. The issue was that a dog at the restaurant took my daughter’s sandwich while she was eating it. The leashed or unleashed state of the dog is irrelevant.
A second dog on the patio was on a leash but it was an extension leash and the dog was also able to walk over to our table several times until the owner finally latched the leash shorter.
Boiling it down, maybe my issue is probably more with the inattentiveness of the owner, not the dog. If you are going to not be aware of your dog at all times at a restaurant and your dog is not amazingly well behaved, maybe it is not the best idea to bring it along.
In thinking some more about this, all sorts of things happen at restaurants – it is a confined space, people trip on them, unknown dogs walk by, people drop plates or make really loud noises, great smelling food is nearby – and if you are not completely aware of your pet and in control of it, there is always a potential for something to go wrong. Nobody ever thinks that their pet will ever do anything wrong and more than likely they never will but you cannot control the external factors and is it really worth putting your pet into a situation of greater risk for problems? I know my dogs and, while IMHO they are the best dogs going, I also know that it is not worth bringing them to a patio full of other people and dogs not matter how cool it would make me look or feel. Especially if I was planning to drink and not be focused on them. They are dogs and they do not always react to situations calmly.
Mostly though, I just thought that it was ironic that this happened a day or so after reading this post.
I saw a large dog attack a small dog at Kavarna Saturday morning. It’s not something diners should have to deal with IMHO.
Was this on the sidewalk? If so, then dogs may get into it from time to time and patrons on the sidewalk may witness it. I don’t get the controversy.
I wasn’t there, so I don’t know. But I’m not sure that a 2 sentence account is really enough to understand what the story was, the seriousness of it, or even lack there of.
FM, did not refer to a “controversy.” But rather it was their opinion, as stated in the end of the sentence, of an event that they witnessed. IMHO- The “O” stands for opinion
One reason I won’t be coming back to a lot of area restaurants for a long time. This was one of the defining characteristics of Oakhurst. Obviously smelly or obnoxious creatures, human or canine, have no place in restaurants. But well behaved dogs are one of nature’s greatest gifts to mankind and they deserve a place in our company.
Sad.