Mayor Floyd on Walmart and the Annexation of Suburban Plaza
Decatur Metro | March 30, 2012 | 3:36 pmSince the Mayor’s State of the City this past Tuesday, there’s been a lot of buzz around the community about what he said about Walmart and a possible annexation of the Suburban Plaza site. He was good enough to provide us with the text from that part of his speech for everyone to read in full.
I am not a big fan of Wal-Mart, but I do shop there occasionally, as I am sure we all do. But what Wal-Mart brings to Suburban Plaza is not the type of development I would have chosen. I think our community would like something that looks more like downtown Decatur: a mix of residential, retail and restaurants (as opposed to one business with 200 employees. Instead, 50 businesses with 4 employees each); a development where the owners, operators and employees are part of our community, and not only work here but also live and play here; owners who are concerned about our neighborhoods and how development surrounding them impacts their lives.
But the main problem with the property, if the Wal-Mart is built, is what might happen to the rest of the site. What might future developments look like? The owner of that property has shown little concern or interest in our community or anything outside of the property lines. Historically, empty promises are provided to make a development acceptable or palatable, but we have little or no reason to believe that any promises might come true. Those of us who live around that property will have no input into any future development on the site.
For these reasons, I believe that Decatur should consider annexation of both the Suburban Plaza site, and the commercial property at the intersection of Clairemont and North Decatur Road. I think it is in the best interest of all who surround those properties to make sure their concerns and opinions about those developments are heard and given consideration. I hope the City of Decatur will take steps during the coming year to make annexation of these areas happen.
Are areas other than commercial areas in the annexation plan?
Which plan?
Is the mayor talking about annexing only commercial areas (ie the Sams Crossing Land Grab) or also residential areas near Suburban Plaza and North Decatur/Clairmont?
That isn’t clear, but your guess is as good as mine based on this old annexation map. http://www.decaturmetro.com/2008/01/16/decatur-school-annexation-map-and-presentation/
Suburban is in that triangular census tract 222.
That triangle doesn’t have many school children but the parcels on either side sure do. If they were included in an annexation, we might not be just talking opening Westchester but expanding and building on a second story onto it and maybe onto Clairemont too. Glennwood probably already has as many stories as it can take. Fifth Avenue would be immediately inadequate and who knows about Renfroe and the High School. I’m not necessarily against annexation but I still don’t see how City officials could have supported CSD in school closings when they were already lusting in their hearts for annexation and the data (or at least appropriate data) showed that enrollment had hit the inflection point and was increasing. I always had the feeling that City officials were uncomfortable with CSD’s decision but not going to embarass their sister agency. Ah well, it was just money, children, and teachers involved….
I believe that the more things develop, the more it is starting to seem like we need to return back to a K-5 configuration. Things are very different now than they were when we reconfigured. The Academy is getting more and more expensive to maintain and is making less and less sense logistically.
I had no problem with K-3 and 4-5… and still don’t philosophically. I think CSD needs to look at how much the landscape has changed and adjust accordingly.
You can’t just annex commercial property if the owners don’t want to be annexed, and Selig surely doesn’t want SP annexed. This, I suspect, helps to explain why the map DM posts from a few years ago sprawled into this massive thing — to get residential votes, but the northern residents didn’t want to be annexed to they went south … next thing you know, we’re talking a 45% increase in city population with little though about the impact on schools etc. Wasted effort in time, money, and attention, that could have been focused on the city. What’s different now regarding the logic of annexation such that we are still taking about this?
Boyeah!
Unincorporated Dekalb is about to fail, and very painfully, thanks to all these annexations and new cities.
I would say that DeKalb is destined to fail because it applies a rural model of governance to an urban context. It’s simply not adequate to provide the level of access, responsiveness and service needed/expected by city dwellers, both affluent and poor.
The current breed of new cities and their respective annexations are a symptom, not a cause.
+1000
Some of both is more accurate. If you take away the best retail and the wealthiest areas and turn them into cities, the county, as a result, is even less able to provide services for the unincorporated areas.
Alternatively, new cities are incorporating because the county government is already failing.
The more new cities are born, the faster Dekalb will fail. Then what?
“The more new cities are born, the faster Dekalb will fail. Then what?”
Then DeKalb will continue to exist and operate. Unless it somehow manages to sink into the sea.
Then the remaining land can go back to what it’s supposed to be — the rural, county-governed space between cities where services, and expectations for delivery, are very low. People can either accept that or move to somewhere scaled to provide urban amenities.
I’m not saying this wouldn’t result in a huge pool of losers. It clearly would. But people in unincorporated areas chose county over city intentionally for a variety of reasons. No one expects every choice they make in life to pay off. Or at least they shouldn’t reasonably expect it.
Like every exercise in “rightsizing,” there will be casualties. But what’s happening is still the better long-term option.
Excellent
You can’t be serious. Medlock residents should have chosen Lithonia… or Canton… instead?
Why would they do that? As I said, people choose where they live for their own reasons. No one chooses for them. They’re free to benefit from their good choices and weather their poor ones. Or are you suggesting that someone needs to pick up the tab for them when things turn sour?
“people choose where they live for their own reasons” You mean like people who move to Decatur knowing they are moving to a very small city with limited commercial property and tax base? Who is picking up the tab when Decatur starts annexing commercial property? Decatur annexation is one sided, “rightsizing” is annexing commercial property and far from balanced. Who cares about the “pool of losers” you leave behind.
Commercial property typically brings in more tax revenue than the incremental cost to provide services.
Just because I recognize a phenomenon taking place doesn’t mean I’m advocating for it, Midway. I have no strong feelings either way as it relates to Decatur annexation. Jeff was simply asking what would happen if DeKalb was defunded beyond the point of no return.
Fighting against annexation efforts is certainly among DeKalb resident choices and, if they believe it will serve the long-term viability of DeKalb government and, thus, the stability of their own investments, I encourage them to do so.
I wasn’t affirming your suppositions; I was questioning them. 😀
Right on. And I was pointing out that you were questioning something I wasn’t actually saying…
That’s a relief because presuming to know other peoples’ lives and minds, using the city limits to cast winners and losers, and suggesting a known future outcome – all on a rather baseless conjecture – would not be good, so it’s great you’ve clarified what you meant.
Many areas in unincorporated Dekalb are not rural. In fact, very little, if any, of Dekalb is rural. The residents there expect roughly the same level of services as those of you who are patting yourselves on the back as “winners.”
Like the residents of Brookhaven who expect the same levels of service, don’t get them, and then decide to create their own city?
I don’t think I understand the argument you’re making. I think we all realize that DeKalb isn’t rural, which is why a rural-oriented county government is found lacking by metropolitan residents. That’s the main point, as I read it.
In what way was Brookhaven not getting the services it expected?
Explain this “rural oriented government” thing to me. What does that mean, exactly?
Brookhaven: Isn’t that why all these cities are being created? The levels of service aren’t up to what they expect and they’re willing to pay a premium to get what they want? This article sort of articulates Brookhaven’s specific demands, though they’re just like Dunwoody and all other new cities around Atlanta. http://www.reporternewspapers.net/2010/03/11/should-brookhaven-be-a-city/
County governments were originally established when Georgia was a rural state. Large swaths of land fell under a single jurisdiction and it worked because populations were low. But once populations begin to rise, people begin to except their governments to address the specific needs of their communities. And a huge local government – like DeKalb County – can have trouble meeting the varied and location-specific expectations of its residents. This can lead to in-fighting, which is all too common on the DeKalb County Commission, which leads to even greater inefficiency.
There can be benefits to geographically larger governments – like regional transportation plans, etc – but in DeKalb, we’re not seeing enough of these benefits for residents to see how they outweigh creating their own city government, where they most likely feel like they’ll have a chance of being heard. To me, it basically comes down to what people are willing to pay for. And in DeKalb, many are willing to pay more to receive a more efficient and personalized city government.
Thanks ffor the rural gov’t explanation. I wasn;t thinking about it from that angle.
If you remember the Dunwoody incorporation efforts, you’ll recall a lot of people griping that “their” taxes were being disproportionally spent in South Dekalb, and that Dunwoody’s services were suffering as a result (which is laughable). That was a BIG reason why they were able to get near unanimous support comunity-wide for incorporation.
This is a good point, Jeff, and I think it ties back to what DM was just saying. In a very large geographic area (like DeKalb County), I think it’s easier (from a human nature perspective) to not acknowledge the disadvantaged as part of your community, and worthy of sharing in collective services, because you can quite easily live most of your days having never crossed paths with them. They become some sort of abstract concept to be demonized, which unfortunately characterizes much of the subtext in the Dunwoody effort (or seems to).
Within smaller jurisdictions, that’s often a more difficult position to take because people at all economic levels are more likely to cross paths on a regular basis. They may still have their respective areas, but it’s much harder to deny each other.
Kind of sad to read that old article. I’m not certain what DeKalb was thinking when they didn’t do more cuts in service to make up for the fact that 15% of its tax base for those city services were taken by 6% of the people in Dunwoody, largely because of the CID.
The proposed Brookhaven doesn’t have commercial development on the scale of Dunwoody so the numbers would not have worked had DeKalb not jacked up the county portion of the property taxes (millage rates) so much. That huge tax increase moved me in favor of Brookhaven, though another big factor was Chamblee annexing up to 285 which left an odd peninsula or island of land bounded by Chamblee, Fulton County, COA and Dunwoody.
Yet DeKalb still moved forward with a new police station at near PDK airport and Plaza Fiesta? And a new Senior Center in Chamblee? Then they roll in and pave new driveways for the ball fields in Murphey Candler which is largely used non tax paying Dunwoody Residents and will soon be in the City of Brookhaven.
But maybe more telling is how Chamblee does a much better job at zoning and land development. They’ve put sidewalks that stop at the County Line. Chamblee was the first city in Georgia to get Walmart to put in underground parking and to put in smaller retail businesses that face the street and screen the Walmart and they made them build those first so that Walmart couldn’t pull a fast one.
Finally, there is a group of folks that normally would want to stay in a Democratic DeKalb but are in favor of Brookhaven as a defensive move to Dunwoody taking Murphey Candler and West Nancy Creek and Byrnwyk in order to capture the smaller portion of the DeKalb Perimeter Center CID that is inside 285. Taking that remaining portion would be very lucrative to Dunwoody since it comes with less residential area.
I don’t see DeKalb preparing, The writing was on the wall when the Chamblee Annexation and Dunwoody incorporation happened. Maybe now with Brookhaven and the southern Chamblee Annexation DeKalb will scale back dramatically. I mean basically everything North of 85 in Dekalb will be incorporated. So do we still need 7 Commissioners and their staff? Should the CEO’s pay still be the same?
Sorry I’m rambling, but its time for DeKalb to rightsize its staffing levels. But instead of adjusting the millage rate down they went along with Burrell Ellis’s budget that used the surplus. Reducing the millage rate would have changed the numbers and made Brookhaven a potential no vote outcome. And now I read they want to pave a bunch of land and spend parks dollars on a Soap Box Derby park? Are they insane?
Well, obviously the unincorporated folks will sink into a Mad-Maxian state of lawlessnes and its bereft denizens will raid the cities for office supplies, vegan frappuccinos, dental floss…
p.s.
Seems a wee bit… unbecoming?…l to diss Selig then go “but hey!, your blood money is good here!”
We’re not in the future predicting business, so who knows? The only thing they listen to is $$$, and maybe if they lose enough, they’ll have motivation to shake things up. I feel the same about Dekalb as I did about SPLOST, why keep throwing gobs of money at people who can’t be trusted to manage it properly? Until they start losing money in a painful way, they don’t have any real incentive to change.
So I did hear him right on Tuesday.
He said what he said, but even if Decatur annexes the property soon, which isn’t likely to happen, the WM still goes forward and probably would already be there by the time any annexation happens.
As a COD resident who lives between these two sites, I would be thrilled beyond reason to see them become a part of our city.
Mayor Floyd may be blowing smoke here.
How quickly could Decatur annex, really? Fast enough to prevent this development?
Signs point to no.
The WM is going to happen. If COD proceeds with annexation and then tries to block WM, the lawyers would get very rich because Selig would sue for “taking”, since they had an approved plan prior to any annexation.
Agreed that it would take too long. Look how long it took Decatur to annex commercial property on college avenue from Sams Street to Sams Crossing. Annexation just passed this year after several years of attempting to annex this area. That’s just a small commercial space.
Maybe the threat of higher property taxes (levied on the owner, passed on to the business in rent) might introduce some uncertainty and cause the deal to break down?
The annexation of commercial and residential properties is a package deal, the way it was explained the last time. Decatur is really only interested in the commercial properties but some residential has to come along with it.
The property must be contiguous, so the county doesn’t have to annex everything between CoD and the sites. It can annex a strip to meet the contiguity requirement.
Suburban plaza should be reconfigured as a mixed use development of 2-3 restaurants, greenspace with walking/running paths, a proper skatepark (unlike the tennis court at McKoy), a dog park for adjacent residents. 2-3 businesses, and landscaped with plenty of trees. Suburban plaza could be the gateway to Decatur, and should be a destination for recreation of the local residents. I decided long ago to never patronize Walmart, and if a Walmart is built there, even though it is walking distance away, I will never set foot in it.
Good ideas, but as noted in a previous thread, the market for mixed-use is pretty weak right now, so any redevelopment would take a long while.
That’s a great idea. Except for the skatepark – skaters are punks, we don’t want them ruining it for the rest of us. Otherwise, it sounds like an idyllic use of that space. I look forward to you buying the property from Selig so that you can make it a reality. Come to think of it, sounds like an ideal location for one of my Margaritaville restaurants!
If Suburban Plaza were part of the city, how much control would the City really have over what Selig does with it? Am I wrong that Selig can lease to whomever he wants?
Selig can lease to whomever they please, but any redevelopment i.e. demolition, new building, extensive modification, etc. would come under City zoning.
So the argument is we want a Walmart in the city limits because we want to have a say about how the remodeling is done.
More or less. We would want some influence regarding surrounding development, as the Mayor said “…what might happen to the rest of the site. What might future developments look like? “
As those signs around town say: Walmart and Selig Divide Communities.
You mean the ugly signs illegally pasted on traffic signal control boxes?
+1000. Pot, Kettle…
Ahhhh yes, much better song to have stuck in my head than Red Solo Cup…
A lot of the rhetoric about Walmart makes me think it’s time for Mike Daisey to jump in… “The Agony and Ecstasy of Walmart”
These are the thoughts of those of us who are privileged. Walmart, not all good for sure, not all bad either. In rural communities, and yes I know we are not one, Walmart brings affordable goods and food to the working and lower middle class. In Decatur we are neither. There are scores of workers who wait on us all in this city. They clean rooms, schools, prepare food in restaurants, you name it. Very few of those people can afford to live in this city. Right, that is by choice. If only their parents could have paid for their college education, given them financial support, they could “chose” where they live as well. So, this whole walmart the evil empire thing is an argument that I do understand, the other side is we are not in this city giving one big damn about the workers in the small restaurants, and businesses of the Decatur scene. We know it is ultimately better for us, the residents not to bring in too much of the Walmart element.
Let me clarify because it seems you’re misrepresenting what I said. Making choices is not the same thing as being responsible for the choices you’re presented. Everyone has choices to make and I fully recognize that sometimes those choices are all bad ones resulting from circumstances beyond our control. I empathize with those whose choices are limited or poor — just as mine are from time to time — but the reality exists nonetheless.
As for us not “giving one big damn about workers” in this city, I totally disagree. As just one example, right now, the Zoning Task Force is presenting recommendations that would make accessory dwellings easier to create for homeowners, which will open up all kinds of new, landlord-on-site, affordable rental opportunities tailor-made to service workers. This initiative was at the behest of our citizens during the Strategic Plan sessions, was taken up as a priority by city government, and is being orchestrated by a resident committee. If that doesn’t show a city-wide commitment to service workers and their current inability to live within the city, I don’t know what does.
Because of all the other big boxes around here, whether or not the Walmart gets built will have essentially no impact on the needs of our workers. Enacting policies that encourage dignified, affordable housing options within the city does. I applaud the work that’s been done. It’s not a sexy story but it’s a perfect example of how big this town’s heart actually is.
Servants quarters. The dream of the 1890s truly is alive in Decatur.
Sort of joking.
Too Cool, there are plenty of working class people in Decatur. I don’t know where you live or who you hang out with, but as a 25 year resident of this city, I know plenty of people who aren’t upper middle class, live in Decatur and do things like work for the fire department and county public works fixing water leaks. And they don’t live in other people’s “accessory buildings” (I love you, Scott, and I understand what you are getting at in your post, but this one made me cringe).
Reconsider the cringing, NB. There are a lot of people in Decatur who wait tables, work retail, teach kids or any other number of worthy endeavors, who weren’t fortunate enough to come here back when everyday working folks could get a house (or even a decent apartment) for a good to great price (I, like you, am one of the people who benefited from that). These are the people who need further options. I agree that all the working class people you mention exist but there are others we shouldn’t shut the door on. That’s whose needs I was speaking to. They don’t have to live in someone’s garage apartment. They just deserve to have the option.
I think it was the term “accessory dwelling” that caused the cringe. I know it did for me. I also know it’s not what you meant but I did immediately have an image of a Buckhead Betty (Decatur Donna?) lunching with her girlfriends and bragging about her newly accessorized outbuilding and the cute little poor person living in it 😉
Sorry, J_T. I foolishly defaulted to the wonky term from the zoning code. Leave it to a lawyer to read between the lines!
I think it’s safe to say that it was not my lawyer side reading between those lines but rather my snarky, red solo cup drinking side (why, oh freaking why did I have to flip by the ACM awards show during *that* song?!?)
Yeah, J_T is right. That phrase lent the whole thing a touch of noblesse oblige, if that makes any sense. I didn’t expect that from you, so I was a little taken aback….
So your first thought wasn’t of The Crush? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106627/
No, it was not. Thank God.