MM: Commission Balks at Callaway Plan, Porchfest!, and Atlanta’s Love o’ Parking
Decatur Metro | August 18, 2015 | 10:27 am
- Decatur City Commission balks at plans for Callaway Building [Decaturish]
- Porchfest will bring a festival to Oakhurst’s front doors [Decaturish]
- Decatur “Better Together” schedules diversity conversations [AJC]
- Ale Yeah! tweets about being challenged in court to change store name [Twitter]
- ‘The Roof’ at Ponce City Market to include amusement ride, mini golf [ABC]
- Atlanta’s parking addiction [CL]
Rendering courtesy of Smith Dalia
pleased to see the city balking at the revised retail/residential mix for the Callaway site.
we need to assert a clear and consistent bias for growing our commercial tax base in the city. while i understand the market for a grocery store could have changed since first proposed, other retail or office would be a better replacement than more residential.
Anyone who lives in Oakhurst (or, frankly, the City of Decatur) and who must shop for groceries knows that the need for a grocery store here has not changed–driving to Emory Point is hardly attractive. What is clear is that the developers are in the business of maximizing profit, and that the most profitable development right now is relatively affordable housing. It is good to see the commission push back. The idea that parents will balk at moving into small apartments is laughable, as any of us who already live in COD condos know. In this economy and culture, many parents will stop at nothing to get their kids into schools they perceive to be “better”. Can’t blame them, but in the end, nobody except the developers is likely to benefit.
The East Lake Publix is very nice and has been my go-to grocery for nearly 7 years. Great stock, fresh produce and good meats, super clean, and helpful employees. BOGO and Senior discount are nice perks. Crossing the tracks for groceries when this store is less than one mile from the corner of Oakview and 2nd Avenue does is not logical to me.
+1000 I never understood it, either. One of the best run supermarkets in the metro area and it’s practically next door to the Y. Maybe Kroger really is less expensive if you’re feeding a tribe of offspring but I have always found Publix to be competitively priced for the items and quantities I buy. And the folks who run the Pitch ‘n’ Putt bottle shop at Glenwood & Second are extremely nice.
The Citi-Kroger on Memorial near Columbia is just fine also and without the hassle and confusion that the DeKalb Industrial store has been going through. Plus, gas at their station is almost 15 cents less than on the north side.
The construction at the Dekalb Industrial Kroger has been a hassle for sure, but damn has that store gone upscale with the renovation. I have to say, big improvement. I still prefer YDFM for meats and veggies, but I now find myself going to Kroger more than I used to.
Thanks for the tip on the cheaper gas!
Why in the world would the city allow ANOTHER residential development??? What is going on???? Can the Commission stop this?? What is Lynn thinking about?? I mean really??? There is NOTHING positive about ANOTHER development centered on residential. Just go ahead and KILL the schools and be done w/ it. Or put some other folks in charge of development on behalf of the city who know what they are doing. I’m just sooooo done w/ her and the city on this issue. Geez!!!!
Maybe you should scream at the elected officials that zoned a large portion of downtown as “Multiple Family Residential (High Rise)” instead of insulting a staff person that is doing their job.
Did someone do that? Isn’t pretty much all of downtown zoned C2 and has been for decades? Which parcels are high rise multi family?
You’re right. My eyeballs aren’t working or I’m going color blind. This lot is currently institutional.
My point still stands about Lynn. Scream at the commissioners all you want, but she’s just doing her job.
Callaway was Institutional but the site is now C2. I believe it was rezoned within the past several months to enable the desired redevelopment options.
Grocery stores like Trader Joe’s need to look beyond the confines of their established formulaic processes for selecting locations and dig deeper into local situations. If the population of Boone, North Carolina can support a downtown Earth Fare, downtown Decatur can certainly support a similar grocery store. We probably won’t be the most profitable store in a given chain store’s portfolio, but downtown Decatur would almost certainly be profitable. I know that I would go grocery shopping more frequently if downtown had a grocery store similar to Trader Joe’s or Earth Fare.
Trader Joe’s has about 10 items that my family craves. Right now, I have to make quarterly runs to TJ and stock up. If TJ were here, I’d shop there weekly and transfer at least a portion of my Publix and Kroger shopping to it. There’s only so many grocery trips a week that I’m willing to make. I realize that some are contemptuous of love for TJs but they don’t have to serve dinner at my house.
I would like the space to go to the type of store I currently have to leave Decatur to shop at, yet shop at regularly: Trader Joe’s or other grocery store, Target or other department store, family clothing store. A larger store could go two stories.
Boutiques are nice, but the bulk of my household purchases cannot be found at a boutique and I would love my sales tax dollars to stay in Decatur.
That site is not attractive to TJs or Target. Period. It’s not happening. We need to move past the wishing stage and get that property on to the tax rolls. That is only going to happen by engaging a for-profit developer. That’s how development gets done – for profit. And they make a profit by providing buildings that can be filled by tenants that want to be there. It’s how it works. If they could find a grocery tenant for that location, I’m sure they would. But they’re telling us they can’t. The grocery chains aren’t going to “look beyond the confines of their established formulaic processes for selecting locations.” They just aren’t – they, too, are in the business to make a profit in the way they see fit. Apparently this site is not in their plans for making a profit so they’re skipping us. Time to move on and find another appropriate option for this site.
+1
Same thing goes for wishing for office. Only in certain sub-markets can you build speculative office. Decatur is not one of them. They will need tenants signed on first to plan more than a little office space here.
Nope, I’m going to keep sending out my SOS messages to TJs just in case they are listening. Who knows–one of these days someone there might say “That’s the fourth time I’ve heard Decatur mentioned this week,; let me look at the numbers again….” What’s the harm? It doesn’t stop the city or businesses from doing what they are going to do.
Your assessment is not entirely true. When Earth Fare opened the Boone location they knew that it would not be a high profit location, but that it could be profitable enough. I never stated that a business should locate where they won’t make a profit. Also, I was using Trader Joe’s and Earth Fare as examples, not stating the we need specifically one of these grocers.
Target has an urban express store that it’s expanding to new markets.
In other urban areas I have seen mini versions of bigger stores.
It’s true. But I guess they’re thinking it won’t work at this site. It’s up to them. No matter how bad we want it, it’s up to them. Retail site selection is not a democracy.
Anything that potentially adds more students should be off the table. Why not just make it a park? Decatur’s greenspace/parks are kind of few and far between.
Which Decatur are you talking about? I can’t think of a spot anywhere in Decatur, Georgia, that’s more than a 10-minute stroll from a city park or a greenspace.
SHB,
Most people in Decatur Heights or Sycamore Ridge have to walk at least 20 minutes to Glenwood Elementary or Glenlake Park. That said, I don’t think the Callaway site is ideal for a park or really needed, considering Ebster Community Center is right around the corner.
Make it a park? That’s going to cost the City at least $5 million to purchase the property (Cousins would probably want more to not file a lawsuit it would rightfully have against the City) and then however many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year that the city would forfeit in property taxes by not having a commercial property on the rolls.
We need to have MORE commercial property in this City to help fund the schools, not less. I DO NOT APPROVE OF THIS PLAN!
If anything that adds more students should be off the table, then do you oppose any new single family residential permit in Decatur? Because I guarantee you 5 new single family homes quietly built without fanfare every month adds more students to the schools than any one of these new apartment developments.
Shouldn’t there be a cost/benefit analysis for these projects? Instead of saying “no new students” shouldn’t we see whether these projects bring in more tax revenue for the schools than what needs to be spent to educate any students that come with them? Or are we just saying “no new residents, no new students and particularly no apartment dwellers!”
DecaturMan for the win! Instead of the rest of the reactionary comments, DecaturMan has his thinking cap on. To re-iterate:
“We need to have MORE commercial property in this City to help fund the schools, not less.”
“5 new single family homes quietly built without fanfare every month adds more students to the schools than any one of these new apartment developments. ”
If the grounds for de-railing this proposal come down to potentially adding too many school children then the city needs to stop allowing single family home building and renovation. Each and every new single family house is a loser for the schools – each adding at least one, often many, new school kids. Typically, each and every one and two bedroom apartment unit will add about zero school kids. You want empirical evidence? How many school kids currently live at Ice House Lofts? Particularly the one and two bedrooms, which is what developers are building here. I bet you can count the number of school kids on one hand at Ice House and the Place on Ponce combined.
I’ll say it again: We need to have MORE commercial property in this City to help fund the schools, not less. If the grocery chains are not interested in coming here, they ain’t coming here. Period. We need to take down the Callaway eyesore and get it on the tax rolls. Period. If that means apartments, then let’s welcome our new childless neighbors!
+1. The school tax dollars per resident child is still way higher in condos in Decatur than for a single family home. Do some math. I estimate the Artisan (I live there) has fewer than 10 Decatur public school students. A quick guesstimate suggests about $3M in appraised property per enrolled student.
How many hundreds of building permits for rennovations and new construction are active each year? if you want to improve tax revenue per student, deny new construction permits for single family homes or any rennovation that adds a bedroom. While a fraction of apartments may have school kids, I can bet any single family home sale in Decatur is many many more times likely to add a family w school kids,
Seriously. Apartments do bring children, but at a rate that is a much better deal for the school system than a single family home.
Sure the math could change w growth, and as more families (like mine) consider downsizing from a house to a condo or apartment. But that is all specuation for now. I am a data driven kind of guy – I will be quite interested, two years from now, to see how the 3 current apartment developments going online soon will impact school enrollment.
I should add that while I am pro growth for downtown, the imbalance in this site is disappointing (lack of retail).
I hope that the future influx of downtown residents will increase the scope of potential retail tenants who may wish to locate downtown.
All good points – I was being facetious in my comments about anything adding students being off the table by the way, but how about a giant wall to keep new families out? Too soon? As for putting a the park at the Callaway site, yeah it would cost money and we’re throwing all our money at the schools now. HOWEVER – can we admit that our parks are small and underwhelming in Decatur? I know we have lots of trees, but I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that our public greenspace per capita was among the lowest in the region. And it feels like we’re all so focused on the tax/school ramifications of EVERYTHING that we have completely stopped trying to make Decatur greater in any other regard like improving pedestrian/cycling/park facilities, etc. Things that make a city livable and appealing to all, not just those with kids.
There are plenty of people/firms that could do a fiscal analysis of a proposal. Those aren’t typically done at the zoning level, however. This is a public-private deal, so the DDA or city could go out and do an analysis, but that would have been ideal to work in to whatever agreement was signed with Cousins at the beginning.
Agree with your comment, though.
“in the next four or five years 1,473 new apartments will come online along with 35 more town homes.” – AJC, August 8, 2015
The Callaway plan would add an additional 361 apartments.
Why does 1,834 apartments represent a saturation point with the commissioners, as opposed to 1,473 new apartments?
“The possible impact on the schools is even worse than we anticipated,” Commissioner and Mayor Pro Tem Kecia Cunningham said.
Have any of the commissioners asked Lyn Menne or city personnel to perform an analysis of the possible impact on CSD? If so, where is this analysis for review by city residents? If not, why not?
I would remind those of you who don’t approve of the way the City is being governed that there will be a City election on November 3, with qualifying at the end of this month. Feel free to sign up.
I have a questions…
Since the market economics have changed, and thus the plans for the building have changed, can COD still back out of the arrangement with Cousins?
I imagine the property is worth more now than when it was purchased, and given proximity to the HS, would be a better fit for CSOD.
That would be my question. And I would think a valid one given the substantial change in the use.
I tried asking a similar question a few months ago and got a good response. It does look like the city still owns it so it’s not too late for a creative solution! Not suggesting that typical “mixed use” would work with a school, but is there no way to subdivide the property to make the frontage resi/retail and the back half THAT IS ALREADY ADJACENT to the school at least available to CSD? The entire main part of the existing school entirely fits on the just back HALF of that property (removing the existing structure of course.) That leaves room for parking AND greenspace.
There appears to be a camp that thinks CoD needs this to be commercial property to be consistent with strategic goals – and I don’t fully disagree with that. But there is a near-crisis, if not real crisis, with enrollment levels and the need for space. Not just academic space but exttra-curricular activity space for students. Ensuring that our school system remains the best it can be is surely consistent with our strategic goals, even if not explicitly stated in the 2010 Strategic Plan.
One candidate, Mr. Ridley, petitioned the City to consider a resolution that would cancel the agreement with the developer and I applaud his willingness to fight for the School System by suggesting a sensible solution to our situation. Right now he has my vote.
http://www.decaturmetro.com/2015/02/17/decatur-schools-will-add-30-trailers-next-year/#comment-539996
“Right now he has my vote”
Be careful what you ask for.
Or suggest:
“I would remind those of you who don’t approve of the way the City is being governed that there will be a City election on November 3, with qualifying at the end of this month. Feel free to sign up.”
Not my battle anymore, but instead of pushing for grocery chains that aren’t interested, why not petition Kroger to expand and improve its selection a bit? Some people here are acting as if there isn’t already a grocery store downtown, one that has more items of daily use than TJ’s and probably some of the other names mentioned too.
Because it’s about status. People want to be able to say that Decatur has a Trader Joes, which apparently is some sort of hipster threshold.
In this era where you can order virtually anything that you want online, it’s hard to justify that there is a void that needs to be filled.
I always learn something new on DM! My first reply to the comment that TJ is about status because you can get anything online was “I can’t get TJ brand Maple Leaf Cookies online!” Then I googled “TJ Maple Leaf Cookies”. You CAN get them online. In fact Amazon.com has a huge selection of TJ brand packaged, canned, and bottled goods. Who knew? Not me anyway. So now we can get TJ brand cookies, crackers, teas, condiments, baking mixes, and snacks without leaving the comfort of Decatur.
But what about TJ brand frozen goods and dairy, especially Asian and Indian food items? I tried Instacart but it only delivers from Kroger. Any ideas for how to get TJ items that must remain cold or frozen, DMers? I would much rather be unhip at home and have our favorite TJ items delivered to us than schlep to a busy brick and mortar TJ. Of course, there would be less impulse buying by ordering online rather than wandering through a brick and mortar TJ while hungry. But that’s a good thing.
I don’t shop at TJ’s for status. And I would be surprised if a majority of their patrons do either.
Also, online shopping is not for everyone. I enjoy bumping into my neighbors or helping some random senior citizen reach for something high at the grocery store that I WALKED to. You cannot get that kind of community connection buying toilet paper online.
“You cannot get that kind of community connection buying toilet paper online.”
But you can get it at Kroger.
You all just keep that passion for a neighborhood grocery alive a while longer. This is my next big project.
Why isn’t Cousins making an all out effort to woo Baby Kroger over to Callaway? It’d be the best fit for all downtown shoppers, plus Kroger could expand to include a cafe– a surefire winner for the lunch crowd. Of course the City would have to be open to allowing surface parking.
Hey, Deanne. Just out of curiosity, why would the city have to be open to that? Kroger has stores with structured parking so they’re apparently amenable to an urban product. Is there some other objection?
Well dang!! If decks aren’t an issue for Kroger, then Cousins and the City should definitely jump on making it happen!! :0)