Yesterday, the Champion Newspaper published a story about Good Growth DeKalb’s ongoing efforts to stop a Walmart from opening at Suburban Plaza.
Today, the Medlock Area Neighborhood Association has posted a letter from property owner Scott Selig, addressing a July 12th meeting between Selig and Good Growth DeKalb – which was also mentioned in the Champion article – and encouraging feedback from the community. As is mentioned in both the letter and the Champion article, Selig says that Walmart is not up for discussion, but they are encouraging feedback through community liaisons on other potential tenents and/or the architectural design of the redeveloped property.
I’d like to see a World Market and Home Goods.
Would love to see an Ulta also!
YESSSS!
This pretty much sums it up:
Selig made it clear from the beginning there was nothing to discuss about Walmart. It’s not going to change and it’s not going away.”
I’m excited to see this rotting corner of Dekalb county get fixed.
Tammy, I couldn’t agree with you more. No Wal-Mart is not the first on my list or really on my list, but considering what’s there now it has to be an improvement. Besides Selig, if you look at their other retail projects, they do a great job, more importantly, if you look at them 5 years later they continue to keep them up. Beside, no matter who goes in that spot there is going to be traffic…period.
Let’s see here:
Selig enters into an agreement to lease to Walmart. The property is zoned for what Walmart wants to build. Based on a vocal minority opposing this legal transaction, Selig and Walmart say “OK, let’s talk. What are your concerns and how can we address them?”
GGD and some other locals say, “There’s nothing you can do short of killing the Walmart project. We don’t want it and there’s nothing you can do to make us want it!”
Did I get any of this wrong?
Well, you left out the “Stop WalMart” signs…
Did you get any of it wrong?
Um, yeah, you laid out the facts logically.
Silly man.
You also left out the legal basis that GGD proposes to use to challenge Selig.
How does one omit something that doesn’t exist?
Oops, my bad !
You left out the part where their spokesman told the neighborhood and my paper, the Atlanta Business Chronicle, there wasn’t going to be a garden center because as the plan was configured, “there isn’t any room for it.” Guess what? They found room. I don’t doubt that Ace will survive or that Selig has the right to rent to anyone, but don’t try and suggest they have been upfront and straight with us.
plans for these kinds of developments are nearly always in flux until the moment of ground breaking, and often beyond. it’s normal, and were your or my personal money on the line, we’d probably enjoy the latitude to revise designs to optimize our odds for success too. the notion that this is emblematic of some nefarious plot to ruin local businesses is a bit of a stretch.
no doubt Selig and its partners are playing to win–that’s what I expect all business people to do, including our smaller businesses who also want to outsell their competitors. personally, I’m not worried about Ace. They do a great job of curating a selection of products that targets my needs, and the ease of quickly dashing in and out of their smaller operation will keep me loyal for most of my hardware needs, which tend to be small.
The survival of Intown Ace has been much discussed here and elsewhere. They will be just fine, thank you, because a) they don’t depend on their garden center for their survival, b) they have many products that WM will not have, c) they have knowledgeable, helpful salespeople, d) they have a loyal clientele who don’t purchase based upon price, but upon b) and c).
All the fear about WM putting small businesses out of business is bunk. The anti-WM folks cite Columbia Drive, but I see very few empty storefronts there and, as a matter of fact, new businesses have opened up. I don’t think SunTrust would have built a brand-new branch if they didn’t think there was money and customer traffic in the area.
Can’t help but plug Ace once more. I simply enjoy shopping there. It just makes me feel warm and snuggly and it is a hardware store! They have gone out of their way to help me on every project I’ve ever taken on. I will go where it is fun to shop. ACE!
+1 Hardware stores are not my thing so it says a lot that I also find Ace Hardware to be a warm and cozy place to shop! It actually reminds me of a New England country store from my childhood summers- a combination hardware store, drugstore, novelty store, with a soda fountain! If Tony Powers would just put in a soda fountain with genuine twirl around stools, I would never need to go beyond Scott Blvd.!
+1 on Cost Plus World Market and HomeGoods.
DSW Shoe Warehouse would be great too.
J_T-you got it right, I think.
After all, the yard signs say, ‘STOP Walmart’, not, ‘Let’s talk about this’.
If there are other retailers who think this site is advantageous for them, I would think a developer like Selig would be in contact with them to promote and suggest this site for their businesses. They are in the business of identifying good fits for their properties are they not?
From what I have seen of the details, the re development is a huge improvement.
I have heard anecdotally that there really isn’t another anchor who would place a location there. It needs a mass merchandising anchor, and Walmart is the best player to fit this site.
The anti Walmart folks only seem to be interested in capitulation, not compromise.
(and traffic has always sucked around here, so vote for SPLOST and by 2020 we may see some minor relief.)
Frankly, I oppose any redevelopment occurring there–I love it just as it is, and had grand plans to make it a permanent dystopic zombieland film location I’d rent out to movie productions. All I need to do is add a few bullet riddled abandoned cars and I’d be ready to roll.
Those big empty expanses of asphalt and deserted retail stores really flatter the neighborhood and are always part of any drive around tour I give out of town guests. They always remark about how only a truly progressive and wealthy community could allow a tax revenue generating parcel to sit idle for years and years, and admire our patience as we wait for the absolutely perfect community approved commercial developer to present its plan–one which would allow for 50% community involvement in working out all the final details like: acceptable store brands, restaurant cuisines, landscaping, architecture, and of course, tasteful fonts on the signage.
HA! Love it!
DM- Thank you for keeping everybody up to date!
We’re in a exciting phase now with the design plans and Selig’s efforts to find possible ways to improve walkability. As DM pointed out, our community is invited to make suggestions. I’m hoping the folks on here can come up with some great ones for Georgia grown businesses that may be looking to relocate or expand– or come to life!– that could be a good fit for the center. Please don’t be shy about piping up!
* Wasn’t expecting The Champion article to show up too! Want to make sure that folks know that my comment on it is my personal take only, and it was shared before Selig “officialized” me with the community liaison title. Also, Scott’s letter was already set for release before yesterday’s article came out.
(Y’all are tickling me with your comments! :0)
Here’s a suggestion: think of “walkability” not only in terms of getting to the center on foot but also what it’s like to walk about once you arrive, whether you’ve hiked in or driven and parked. Design the parking lot to eliminate long, wide straightaways which encourage cars to go too fast. Make the lanes narrow, require frequent changes in direction, build in lots of pedestrian “refuges” (may not be the term of art, but you know what I mean). BUT ALSO use striping and signage so it’s obvious to even the most oblivious texter which direction they are supposed to go, and when to stop and when to go. Make it safer for everybody, and also encourage people who drive there to park once and walk to their various destinations.
Re. parking lot: I’d encourage them NOT to do it like the Walmart on Memorial, with a giant pedestrian zone across much of the front of the store. That encourages people on foot to just roam randomly, which gridlocks vehicles and makes them impatient and more likely to drive aggressively once they break free of it. Better to use planters and bollards to funnel pedestrians to predictable spots.
Smalltowngal- You’ll be pleased! Creating a safe environment for pedestrians has been a main focus from the start. Selig’s consulted with experts and tweaked the plans a couple of times to do things to that’ll raise drivers’ awareness when navigating through the parking lots. Roberto Paredes, the architect, has shown us some examples of things he’s considering to distinguish the pedestrian crossings, and he also talked of adding planting buffers to separate the parking area from the store frontage– both done in a visually appealing way. We’re meeting again soon, and I’ll ask how the signing will be done. :0)
(Psssst! For the Memorial Dr. store, park in the little lot on the side of Walmart just as you enter from S. Columbia– piece of cake to get in and out! :0)
The one and only time I’ve ever found an empty slot in the side lot — and I always look — I was so gleeful I failed to pay attention to the ground and stepped in gum wearing new sandals. If it’s not one damned thing, it’s another damned thing.
We think you’re perfect! Please keep up the good work.
Could we have them make the project a LEED Green building project? That would address water, heat island, community connectivity etc? It would be great to have an environmentally responsible construction project in Decatur.
Deanne, in all seriousness, one thing you could offer the community is meaningful space for hosting local famers and artists markets on designated days. This would be a big win/win for the development and the community, and would foster goodwill.
I like your idea of featuring Georgia grown businesses, and wish you all great success.
+1 for markets
Good idea, but WM sells produce and I am confident that the lease covenants they will require will prevent anyone else at Suburban Plaza from competing with them, even on a limited/temporary basis.
What about FRESH, locally grown produce? That shouldn’t compete with WM produce! 🙂
“… Wal-Mart, the largest grocer in the U.S., with more than $120 billion a year in food sales, encourages its managers to buy produce grown within 450 miles of its distribution centers, even if local peaches, for example, cost more than those produced across the country in California. …”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304223804576448491782467316.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/03/the-great-grocery-smackdown/7904/
I’ve got to pay more attention to these WalMart discussions! Who knew?! I haven’t lived near a WalMart in years so I am definitely behind the times.
Rick Julian- Thank you for the kind words! :0)
And two very good suggestions for supporting our local artists and farmers! Something I’ve wondered about on those two ideas is if folks might view it as “taking” a successful Decatur idea? The cool thing about this redevelopment opportunity is that we can add to all our available choices for shopping closer to home. Would trying to do something like a market create resentment towards the center (or possibly, the participants)? What are folks’ thoughts on it?
I’m betting there’s lots of GA gems out there folks would enjoy having in our area! Heck, even if the business wouldn’t be the right fit for Suburban Plaza, it could be a good fit somewhere else close by!
focus group of one:
no, i don’t believe locals would consider providing market space “taking” an idea; more like running with a good one. our markets have had to move around a number of times as their popularity has grown–mostly due to size constraints i’m guessing, and the latest location for the weekend market on McDonough, next to Decatur High is about to outgrow that location.
some have suggested there might be anti-compete language in WM’s vendor agreements that might preclude the market vendors selling produce. i hope not.
seems like it would be like Kroger allowing some Girl Scouts to sell cookies in front of their store: yes, it might cut down on Kroger’s cookie sales by some miniscule percent, but the goodwill it would foster would probably translate to net profit for the store.
It’s very helpful having your take on it. I wouldn’t want Selig to catch grief for trying to do a good thing. The anti-compete language Walmart has probably only applies to businesses that they consider true competitors. ( It’s interesting to find out what businesses do list. Dollar Tree at Belvedere Plaza had to wait out a restriction Kroger had before they could add a freezer section.) In Suburban Plaza’s case, it may be a “squeezing it in” thing since there won’t be the huge parking lot expanse. I’ll definitely bring it up.
Bill Stogner is a HUGE fan of Girl Scout cookies! He’s finding them a space to set up! :0)
Actuallly, Can We Talk, I wanted to put a yellow Wal-Mart sign in my yard: Give us a good Wal-Mart that reflects the demographic. We also had a He Said: Free Market She Said: Stop Wal-Mart pair of signs on my street. I’m wondering if we will all take them down the night before the Grand Opening.
And since we have the ear of the developer: A Michael’s would be nice!
I have always thought if every one who had a Stop Wal-Mart sign in their yard didn’t shop there it would fail anyway, right?
Oooooh. I don’t weigh in much on the WalMart discussions but a Michael’s nearby would be very nice. And/or a School Bus store. It’s always a bit daunting when the offspring let you know that they have a 3-D school project or craftsy Scout activity or creative Sunday school display due the next day and there’s no way you can get to Northlake Mall in 8 minutes. CVS and Walgreens are life saviors with poster board but can only stock so much in the creative arts/crafts/manipulatives area.
My yard sign would read “Walmart ok if you also add a Michael’s or School Bus, a satellite of the Decatur Farmer’s Market, a children’s shoe store, a bagel shop, and maternity parking. (Not that I need the maternity parking but it was my favorite perk of pregnancy so I’m a lifelong fan.)
I think you mean School Box, but we get your drift.
Yup, it’s that big yellow lettering that mixes me up, School Bus, School Box. One of my offspring was a total school bus aficianado for while and I may never rid my subconscious brain of yellow school bus images.
You guys, you guys…there’s a Michael’s just up the road. What we need is a Joann’s.
I don’t consider Northlake “just up the road” (although I realize those perspectives are relative). What does Jo-Ann’s have that Hancock’s doesn’t?
“What does Jo-Ann’s have that Hancock’s doesn’t?”
Seriously? Maybe it’s so far out that you’ve never been to one? They have a better selection of everything than Hancock’s. And their employees are generally less surly.
I’ve been to Joann’s although I can’t think which one or when or why. Obviously not for several years. I run by Hancock’s at Suburban Plaza several times a year to grab one thing or another, and occasionally the one at Piedmont/Sydney Marcus, and can’t remember encountering any surliness at either one. Maybe I’m such a ray of sunshine, people can’t help but respond in kind!
The point was that offspring have a way of announcing dire school project needs about 8 minutes before store closing. I cannot get said offspring to Northlake in 8 minutes safely but I could get to Suburban Plaza at the last minute. There used to be a School Box years ago in either Toco Hill I believe or something similar. But not since I’ve been needing one.
I don’t have anything against Northlake. When offspring have their dire last-minute clothing and school project needs, it’s a darn handy place. And it has the nearest Party City, ditto for last minute birthday party theme realizations. I would suggest Party City for Suburban except that it did not survive in that shopping center across from Emory Commons.
I’m hoping Hancock Fabrics stays because I must go there about once a month for sundries. But if there’s something better, as JoAnns is described, that’d be fine too. My real ambition is to become talented enough in the textile arts to deserve to shop at Intown Quilters in North DeKalb Mall area. It’s pricey but heavenly. Even unhandy me could be motivated to use those fabrics.
AHID- What’s the name of the kid’s shoe store you’ve mentioned a couple of times? All that sticks in my mind is you wanting to open one for fat feeted kids! (If I’m recalling correctly, one time it was going to be a fancy bagels & fat feeted kids shoe shoppe! :0)
Yes, Coggins Shoes and Bagels aimed at fat-footed children and their svelte, gorgeous, intelligent Moms who deserve genuine NYC-style bagels. That’s the ticket!
(Apologize if this comment shows up twice. The first copy of the comment seems to be stuck in perma-moderation.)
COGGINS! Thanks, AHID! I thought I might have to do a threads search! :0)
Some Walmarts have a craft section. ..
(or so I have heard)
Another Cost Plus World Market vote here.
I vote for Home Goods and World Market!
A second Pin-Ups location.
Featuring the freshest organic, home-grown strippers.
Awesome.
Prediction of what actually goes in there after Walmart: Five Guys Burgers, Metro PCS (unless there’s one already there; I haven’t been in a while), TJMaxx, GameStop (or something similar), Great Clips.
Don’t forget Shanes Rib Shack and/or Moe’s.
Moe’s is already there.
Actually, I’ve heard the line up hasn’t changed a bit from December: Dick’s, LA Fitness, Michael’s, Bed, Bath & Beyond. Same poor quality, chain outlets that we can get to in a few minutes anyway. What Selig is offering us is as bland as it gets.
Wouldn’t it be cool if that center was owned by a company that thought enough of themselves and us to truly make a difference with this redevelopment?
Think: green roofs and gardens, LEED certified, natural lighting, solar power, exciting new stores with small footprints (think hyper-local as well as outside of the South, maybe outside of the US for new ideas), a dedicated space for art (galleries, studios, performance areas), local (not chain) restaurants and more.
I’m surprised about the Michaels, since there is one relatively close by at Northlake. From my own perspective only, LA Fitness is a total waste of space. Dicks is probably a useful addition, and we will definitely shop at the Bed Bath and Beyond (I don’t think I’ve ever seen a BB&B in the same center as a Walmart).
The list shouldn’t be regarded as fact.
Lots of possible summer jobs for Decatur teens and college students at those large stores. . .
Wouldn’t it be cool if YOU had the money to buy the property and do all those things you think the current owner should be doing? Then you could have fun dealing with the different segments of the local population who were not happy with your choices while you also took on all the financial risk that a project of that sort would entail!
Sure would!!
🙂
+1 (to JT’s comment)
On the other hand if they find the neighborhood where their property is located is just too hard to deal with they could sell it and move on.
Then Walmart could buy it.
Clever, no?
Brianc- Stop yer grousing! Those are perfectly good businesses and could fit in nicely! I’m talking about additional possibilities– there’s room for all! Now get in the spirit of things and think on what else you’ve come across in your travels. I’m sure back when you were working on shopping center paving projects you came across some cool finds. Where did you eat? What caught your eye? What about places that are a “must visit” when you go off for a weekend getaway? And on chain stores, this is the ideal location for having the some of the ones we like close by, so what are some of the chains that would be a “YES!!!” to you?
Who said I was grousing? I actually like all of those businesses I mentioned (except for Gamestop, I don’t play video games), within the context of a suburban shopping center. Yes, even Metro PCS: I got my elderly mother a cell phone there since there was no sense in her having to lock into an expensive contract or add minutes to a card every month.
Would I prefer Suburban Plaza looked more like the Landmark shopping center in Midtown? Yes, but I’ve accepted that isn’t going to happen.
P.S. You have a long memory for poster’s previous references, huh? 🙂
Landmark in Midtown? You mean Midtown Promenade? Of course it will never look like that – they have a Trader Joe’s!
Yeah, that’s the one I was thinking of, but I was thinking about the movie theater and the restaurant mix, not the Trader Joes.
You weren’t thinking about the Trader Joe’s? Don’t worry, everyone else was 😉
But speaking of Midtown Promenade, what exactly do we have to do to get a Jersey Mike’s in the C.O.D.?!?
I did think it was kinda odd (and figured you were just stressed from your TSPLOST vote fretting! :0) Stuff shared by the DMers who’ve made a big impression on me tends to stick in my mind. You were solidly noted as a good guy during the infamous 500 comments Dollar General thread, and that’s also where you shared it. :0)
Sooooo…. be thinking on some possible businesses!
Movie theater would be my top request, but that looks unlikely. An H.H. Gregg would be nice, but I don’t think they are going to do any expanding in this direction.
Maybe a Frye’s?
Mike’s Hot Dogs
The only thing better than one Walmart is of course two! They sit facing each other across the parking lot so when you walk out all you see is WALMART! Clever, no?
Coming soon will be our trans-dimensional Walmart! In the TDW as we call it once you walk in you can never leave! Clever, no?
Just remember, all we want is everything!
Ballard’s Outlet. Sigh…probably not to be.
What about Old Navy? Please?
Ah, looks like one developer is on the right track with Ponce City Market:
“Plans include a food hall with farm stands and restaurants, an organic garden, and rooftop entertainment hearkening back to the old Ponce de Leon Springs Amusement Park — think carousel rides with a skyline view.”
From Atlanta Magazine: http://www.poncecitymarket.com/uploaded/resources/180.pdf
Ponce City Market is a really exciting development. I wish Selig would leave behind the 80s big box mentality, but I guess that wouldn’t help their bottom-line as much. Selig and its boosters talk a big game, but at the end of the day I’m pretty sure this is going to look like just another outside the perimeter he!! hole. Suburban Plaza don’t look great right now, but that’s Selig’s fault, plain and simple. They’ll blame everyone and everything else, but it’s their property and they’ve mismanaged it for years.
I’m not sure why everyone thinks Selig is suddenly going to be a community asset; they’re they’ve owned this property since the 50s and let it devolve to this point. I have zero faith in their plans or Deanne’s heartwarming encomiums. It ain’t gonna happen folks. Walmart’s already sold out rural America and it’s now coming for urban America. Selig’s glad to help sell us out as long as they get their financial reward. Y’all have fun walking around a parking lot oohing and aahing over the same old BS.
What about one of those mega size nightclubs with foam parties and ladies nights and stripper poles?
AMB! You’re a wild ‘un! Who knew?!? :0)
I was only half joking. What prevents a nightclub from moving into Suburban Plaza?
AMB, I’ll be happy to pass along your idea, but I don’t have enthusiasm for it. One of the neighborhoods’ goals all along has been to reduce the impact on neighbors from late night sound and noise, and this doesn’t strike me as compatible.
* one of those should’ve been lights.
My guess is that it would be an allowable use under the present zoning, though there may be issues with the alcohol permit.
Any chance of something like this at Suburban Plaza?
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/breaking_ground/2011/11/walmart-will-build-to-leed-standards.html
Nordstrom’s?
Dunkin doughnuts combined Baskin Robins with extra sprinkles on top pretty please