Feeling a bit like a one-trick pony today, posting maps and charts like a pro! Rachel points out this table in the City Schools of Decatur Transportation Plan – required by the City Commission – that provides a clean look at the new start and end times for our seven schools over the next two years. There’s some other interesting data in the proposed transportation plan as well, but one topic at a time.
In her monthly letter to the Board (Item “A” on the April 12th agenda), Superintendent Phyllis Edwards goes into detail about the new schedule…
Within the Transportation Plan is the new bell schedule which has been examined for over four weeks. Principals, Simone Elder, Thomas Van Soelen, and Caroline Wood have all been involved in the creation of the bell schedule for next year. Some principals also reached out to gather parent input. While we are aware of the research, there is no way to have children go to school much later than we do now, mainly because of the late time they would get out of school. Not all children can go or get out at the same time. We do not need more buses with this plan and are able to cut bus transportation down by asking our elementaries for more walking and bike riding. For next year, we plan to notify families within a determined radius that they live close enough to school and bus services will not be offered. We have worked with GSU and expect that fewer buses will be needed at the K-3 elementary level because of the change in zones. The middle school and high school principals were clear that they need an earlier start time and the new schedule is so reflected. Also in our conversations, we found that two of the K-3s were already starting school activities 15 minutes before the actual bell time.
Ugh. 7:45 am start time for the High School is going to make for one grouchy teenager at our house. I’m wondering why the middle and high school administrators are insisting on this when I keep reading studies showing that teen brains function better later in the day.
I also wonder why the middle and high school principals are insisting on this. It doesn’t make sense developmentally. It’s probably the sports schedule. I could live better with accomodating the sports schedule if more than a few kids benefitted from it. Unfortunately, the proportion of students who get to play school sports decreases as they get to higher grades. On top of that, some middle school and 9th grade teams have been cut lately, I believe because of a tight budget. But I’d love to hear from the principals themselves about their thinking on this. There may be other factors that we’re not aware of.
Interesting that some K-3 schools are going to start a little later than others. Anyone understand the rationale for that? I’m thinking that it’s got to be the bus schedule but I can’t figure out how.
I agree with this. As a high school teacher there will be so many tardies and first and second period classes will be dead – no interaction. Research says that teenagers function better later in the day. The faculty is not happy about this.
This is worrisome. The teachers know more than the rest of us what really happens in the classroom.
The true impact of this will be felt by the district on assessments. Student achievement increases with later start times–as far as I know that is not in question–so it follows that shifting the start time earlier will negatively affect scores. Moreover, schools could start much later, if we moved sports up to the morning, which would, incidentally, have the added benefit of putting the spring and fall sports teams out doing their exercise at a time of day when the air isn’t actually hazardous. Sad thing to see an opportunity bypassed.
I agree that I am just astonished that the high school will be starting 50 minutes earlier than they do now. My high schooler is the one kid in the house who can get herself to school by herself, and she walks every single day, rain or shine (too cool to ride the bus of course). She will have to leave the house so early to get there by 7:45 that I don’t think she will be able to walk anymore.
I’m with you CSD Mom–50 minutes earlier for the high school is just wacky—does that mean before school activities such AP Chem lab help will start at 7? I don’t think so. Not every activity for the high school–there are more than just athletic ones–will have to meet after school. How many kids from the high school even ride the bus–w/ two kids–this is my 6th year at DHS and neither of my kids has EVER ridden the bus. Hope they are prepared for the endless line of tardy students lined up at Mr. Anderson’s attendance office.
My high school hours started at 7:30 and ended at 2:45, so for me, this isn’t an earth-shaking deal. I actually liked it, because the early start meant an early end, and I could get to work by 3:30. I lived about three miles from my high school, so until I got my driver’s license in my junior year, I rode my bike. No big deal, except when I had a flat tire.
The students will get used to it. They always do, and we adults have a tendency to underestimate their resiliency.
“The Kids are Alright.”
You forgot walking in the snow up-hill with holes in your shoes….
Not much snow in south Florida, and I had comfortable shoes. 🙂
My goal wasn’t to say things were hard for me (they weren’t); it was to point out that 7:45 a.m. is not as bad as people think. The kids will adjust and be fine.
Same here – my high school started at 7:30, and it was awesome to be able to get 18 holes in every afternoon after school. Or to be home from basketball practice at 4:30. Heck, we used to get up at 4:30 AM for “dawn patrol” surfing BEFORE school.
Maybe it’s just me, but I thought one of the main reasons for school is to prepare our kids for the real world. The real world doesn’t care about optimum learning cycles or what time the sun comes up. I’m in the office at 7:45 every day. Kids need these challenges now, because they will surely get them later.
Most modern companies have flex-time, so individuals can choose their work hours to accomodate their personnel schedule, or take advantage of being a “morning” or “afternoon” person. The era of up-before-dawn, home in time for the 5 pm news is passing, except if you work in a factory, or live in the ex-urbs and have to commute 3 hours a day.
Not so much in the new economy….get to work early, stay late, don’t complain is the new normal.
I had to be at school at 7:15 (dismissed at 2:15), starting in the 6th grade all the way through high school. That was early! 7:45 isn’t that bad.
I too would like to hear directly what the reasoning was from the Renfroe and HS principals…. Every parent I hear and every research I have read says the opposite. I also hear that many kids meet before school for clubs and activities and this makes that more difficult.
I wonder if the first go round of parent comment was all from elementary kids and few high school parents chimed in as it didn’t seem to impact and now some will have more to say. Although I am sure Spring Break release of this information will quiet the response.
I have to say I am frustrated by the whip lash on this. “We need longer days” and now none of this has a longer day. Which I am ok with personally but I do notice it has vanished now.
I still think we need to have the “recess” conversation that was started, initially as a rationale for the time change, and should not be short changed.
Agree that the decisions and rationales keep changing in ways that make one scratch one’s head. I suspect that the effect of the new reconfiguration (no central hub anymore) on bus scheduling is the primary driver. Length of school day, sports schedules, principal preferences are supporting, but not the driving, rationales. The supporting rationales will change with whatever decision is reached for dealing with the bus scheduling.
Also agree that the discussion of recess should not be dropped. Or playground equipment at Fifth Avenue (is it definitely being installed before school opens?). Or appropriateness of homework in K-3. Can’t remember if there were any other good spin-offs from the original school schedule discussion.
Finally: Have the middle school and high school kids heard about this yet? They seem awfully quiet about it. They are old enough to bear some of the burden of protest!
DISLIKE.
I wrote to the school board members asking them to consider delaying the vote until May. There are too many unknowns that haven’t been released to the public. I imagine the school board members might not even have been told details as well. For example, what times will the buses pick up? There are solutions out there to starting the schools between 8 and 8:30.
I just relayed the new hours to my soon-to-be freshman. He was thrilled to find out that he will get out of school 45 minutes before his brother (at Fifth Ave.) will. He didn’t see a problem with the new times. He rides his bike and walks to Renfroe now. The only problem I can see is when it is still dark out at 7:20 am.
Important: get front and rear lights if your kids will be biking while it’s still dark (or dusky) outside.
Given that most students will need to allocate at least 20 minutes to walk to school and be sure they are in their classroom seats on time, kids will be on the road, in parentless packs, as is the custom in the preteen and teen years, at 7:25 AM or earlier. Many of our streets have sidewalks but many still do not (big SIGH and fingerpointing at neighborhoods that refused them). It’s dark or twilight at that time for most of the year. Cars be careful: Those are our precious, if wacky and flighty, children. I would put reflector tape and flashing lights on them if I could, but fat chance….
Excellent. Get those busses off the road before I start my commute.
Wonder how many HS and MS kids will be on the bus? Mine never took the bus to Glennwood because I have to drive to work every day. Rather than have them ride around Decatur for 40 minutes in the dark, I left a little earlier and dropped them off. We all hated it and were so glad to get on the bus to Renfroe . . .
Few ride the bus compared to younger grades. Even cycling drops off. It’s more cool to walk. It’s really a shame to have the school schedules in this age group driven by bus transportation when so few take the bus. But some do, bad weather happens, and the free/reduced lunch program is appropriately a priority. So I’m not sure how to decrease the impact of the bus schedule.
this year the high school advanced placement kids have tutoring and problem solving sessions at 7am. does that mean those will be at 6:15 next year??? how bout swim practice which was 6:45 am?
we dislike this schedule a lot!
middle and high school kids don’t need any more time in the afternoon to get in trouble. they really do need the sleep though.
Like!
Tutoring for many other subjects also happens at 7 AM. Middle school basketball teams have practiced at 6 AM in the past. Parents who work part-time or on compressed schedules so they can be available in the late afternoon to reduce unsupervised time at home or to pick up from activities will be stymied if everything moves up earlier. There’s only so early one can try to depart from work and pass the laugh test.
No one of these issues is itself a deal-killer–and I know we all used to walk uphill to school in the snow at 6 AM in the days of the giants–but altogether a 7:45 AM start will be a hard change for many families, students, and teachers. Wish it didn’t have to be all about the bus schedules.
If you uncouple the MS/HS route and instead couple the 4/5/MS route, you don’t have a bus schedule problem. Run separate HS routes earlier with a start time of 8 – 8:15 creating a compromise between getting kids out earlier for sports events, but not putting them on a bus at 6:10 am for drop off at 7:10 am. The superintendent has already written that they are using less buses for the ES so there will be buses available for a HS route. All of the other metro systems start their MS around 8:30 so keeping that time, or moving up slightly to 8:20 keeps Renfroe comparable to the other systems. To change it to 7:45 makes it way out of line with the other systems. There aren’t any public school events that start earlier for the MS.
It’s 1 mile, straight shot, no railroad crossing from the MS to the 4/5.
If you don’t like this idea, there are other solutions to starting the schools between 8 and 8:30. Starting schools at 7:45 with a drop off at 7:10 is not the best solution.
I know many HS/MS parents who are hoping there will be more information about how the usual before school activities will be handled (now after school or just that much earlier?). As much as I want to believe this was done with true input from key stakeholders and consideration of the SCIENTIFIC FACTS ON SLEEP AND TEENAGERS while balancing the needs of the bus schedule, it really does not feel like that. I always try to assume the best here but on this topic it’s getting harder to do.
Shouldn’t we ask first, what do we want for our children, what makes sense for our children and for our community and go from there? I know money is tight but shouldn’t we start with the strategically sound set of choices and then explore the options to reach it.
Everyone is worried that the high schoolers will miss out on the sports schedule if they push too late, but if DHS is significantly earlier, what will kids do while they wait for stuff to get started?
I personally am going to enjoy my one year with no children starting before 8am and am happy that the 5th avenue is a later start as it will facilitate more biking and walking for our family so my sense of unease about the schedule does not at all reflect my personal situation for this coming year.
Next board meeting is Tuesday, April 12 at 6:30. Please be there and sign up to speak if you want to convey your concerns to the board. Bring your high schoolers.
Decatur High has had quite a few different starting times over the years. I recall opening at 7:00 and dismissing at 12:30 (renovations at RMS in the early 80s), starting an 8:00 and ending at 3:00 (most of my 34 years), and dealing with an 8:35 start time for the past three, maybe four years (I opposed this change). Most teachers and students, including myself, survived these changes. Throughout this time, some students have been tardy. My guess is that you will have tardies no matter what schedule we follow but most students will be on time (thank you parents). I find it hard to believe, in spite of so-called studies that state otherwise, that DHS students cannot adjust to an earlier start time. Our students are not wimps. They are a lot tougher than the studies show.
There are many advantages to the change. Athletes will be able to start practice or travel to away games earlier. Students will have more time to work an after school job and still do their homework at a reasonable hour. I also believe that students will have more time in the afternoon to attend after school activities like tutoring, drama and band functions. I personally favor the change because it means that instead of working from 6:00 A.M. to 6:00P.M. or later, I will be able to get home at a decent time (a few teachers will leave at 4:00, but most will work until 4:30 or 5:00). Finally, I would rather have high school and middle school students adjust to an earlier time than elementary students.
An earlier post suggested that teachers are not happy with the change. I have not heard this but even if it were true, we will adjust and overcome. I support the change.
Vinco Vici Victum
Chris- It’s really good to read your take on this– especially the history of the other schedules. If you happen to revisit the comments, will you please share how tutoring and other extras were addressed with the earlier start times?
I thought of you & the DHS Close Up Club’s upcoming D.C. trip during the budget standoff. So glad y’all won’t be negatively impacted! Sending prayers and best wishes to you & the kids for a safe & enjoyable trip!
I like that I agree with Chris sometimes. It’s a good reminder that we’re a lot more than just our politics.
Having been one myself, and now having one on the cusp, I know how hard it is to get teenagers out of bed. That said, I also believe that their reluctance to face the largely inconsequential unpleasantries of life should not be met with efforts on our part to accommodate them. It’s not a big deal. Countless kids, myself included, have attended high school starting at 7:45 or even earlier and have emerged to tell the tale. As Chris says, we will adjust and overcome. No big whoop.
I’m not arguing for or against the change. Just suggesting we roll with it. There’ll be some other outrage for the restless to sink their teeth into soon enough…
I’m happy to see that the K-3 day isn’t getting longer. That said, I’d like to see our BoE policy on “Unstructured Break Time” do a u-turn from not guaranteeing _any_ recess and clarifying only where it can be taken away… to guaranteeing at least 20 minutes of recess that can’t be taken away and allowing principals to allow more and/or longer breaks.
And while there is still a great deal of room for improvement, it _is_ an improvement that RMS and DHS start times have moved back from the initially proposed 7:30a start times. I would echo the folks who have asked for clarification on the vague statements that RMS and DHS principals need earlier start times.
Mr. Billingsley, thank you for your comments. I agree that our students are resilient and can survive just about anything we throw at them. But surviving and thriving are different. The research is very clear that earlier start times correlate with students getting less sleep. Problems with physical, cognitive, emotional, and psychological well being increase when people don’t get sufficient sleep.
Our actions speak much louder than our words. It says volumes that the most frequently stated reasons given to justify earlier start times at RMS and DHS are: transportation, extra-curricular activities, and getting to and from work. It is notable that academics rarely enters the conversation. In my opinion, this is clearly a case of the tail wagging the dog.
In a town of 4.2 square miles where almost all students could walk to RMS and DHS and almost all busing to these schools is unsubsidized… Moving start times before sunrise (for a significant portion of the year), will almost certainly decrease the number of students that walk, and increase the demand for transportation. It is my belief that adopting times which encourage more students to walk would affect more students and have a much more significant impact on fostering healthy life-styles than extra-curricular athletics.
In the last BoE meeting Dr. Edwards stated that the start and end times of the school day are an administrative decision. Georgia law indicates otherwise: “LBOE shall establish and approve the school day and school year for students in grades K–12 at a regularly scheduled LBOE meeting.”
When the BoE votes on Transportation Plan, they will be effectively be exercising their authority to establish and approve the school day. I find it disagreeable that start and end times are buried in the transportation plan action item. Despite the implied rushed context of the 4/5 Certificate of Occupancy hanging on approval of the Transportation Plan, there is clearly time for the BoE to table this action item until May. This is the first clear proposal for start and end times that has been given. I hope that they will allow themselves time for consideration and give our involved and engaged community time to provide input on this issue.
Sadly, the presence of this action item on the agenda suggests that it will likely be approved without further consideration. -Unless a significant number of individuals step forward to contact their BoE representatives or give public comment at this Tues. 6:30PM BoE meeting at Westchester. (Note: You can find your BoE members’ contact information here: https://eboard.eboardsolutions.com/AboutBoard.aspx?S=4052)
clarification: the start “walking” times (not school start times) would be before sunrise for a significant portion of the school year.
That appears to be quite a find regarding the Georgia Law indicating that the BoE determines start and stop times. (what is the L in LBOE, by the way?).
But is that the complete story? Is there anything else as to whether Boards can and do typically delegate the authority?
Local?
makes sense. thanks.
Re surviving vs. thriving: That’s an extremely perceptive comment. We don’t want our kids to just survive public education, do no worse than any other kid in Georgia, ranked 40-something among states academically–we want them to thrive to the best of their natural abilities, strengths, and weaknesses, every last one of them, rich, poor, in between. It’s not just school schedules, but for many issues including the gifted program, special education, physical activity, the arts, math skills, reading, sensible homework, team sports, I wonder if CSD is truly maximizing what it can offer students. Yes, adults have to settle sometimes for “good enough for government work”. But not our children, who only get to go through childhood and education once. I don’t get the “good enough for government work” attitude from our frontline teachers much at all but sometimes administrative responses have that tone. And that tone creeps in more and more as the children get older and the parents are less involved in day to day school issues and less able to perceive decisions that are suboptimal academically, socially, or emotionally. Lack of awful decisions is not enough, we need excellent, not perfect but excellent, decisions for our children, our families, and our community. I’m not trying to badmouth all CSD administrators, all CSD decisions, all CSD School Board members. Many are excellent. But I want CSD to maintain the effort to preserve excellence at all times because everytime it does not, some child or children are affected.
Adjust, overcome, toughen up, resiliency?
Sure, for the right reasons.
However, instead of building up ill will in the community and at the schools, by having a vote on April 12th, two days after spring break, wait until May.
If the students, parents and teachers are satisfied with the new start times, no worries. If they aren’t, there are affordable alternatives.
So, what good is it going to do for us to dismiss at 2:45 to accommodate “the sports schedule” when the vast majority of other public schools in the metro area do not get out until 3:30 or in some cases 3:45.
… and.. concerning Mr. Billingsley’s comment about students being able to accommodate work…I agree with that thought. However, CSD slapped all those kids in the face a couple of years ago when they shortened summer vacation to the point that meaningful summer employment is impossible.
Not buying the part about the middle school/high school principals being on board with this.
Love the roll out during spring break. That part is priceless.
Does anyone know how to set up free Survey Monkey-like polls so we can start finding out a little more about how parents, students, teachers really feel about changes like this? Depending on the response rate, and our ability to detect duplicate responders, the results would be more or less biased but no more so than findings based on who happens to post on a blog or neighborhood hear-say or who happens to overcome their learned helplessness and/or fear of public speaking to speak up at a School Board meeting. The key would be to get the word out widely that a poll existed. The benefits would go beyond just tallying votes for and against something, but would increase our understanding of how changes affect others. A lot of times we think we understand issues but then learn a lot when we hear from others about how they are affected. This issue is a good example–parents of younger children may not yet understand the issues of families with teen schedules and the latter may have forgotten what it’s like to get younger children to school.
Or CSD could do this. But if they don’t have the time, know-how, or interest, isn’t there a way for us to do it? I’m not a techie but I’m thinking this should be a lot easier than 3-D maps of Census data broken down by multiple demographic variables.
“Learned helplessness” – well said.
The middle and high school teachers I’ve spoken to oppose the 7:45 start time because they have children of their own to get to school — AFTER their report time.
In addition, having the elementary schools start before the high/middle school allowed older siblings to do the morning drop-off or walk their siblings to the bus. While there are after care programs in place, there are no before-care programs that I know of in Decatur.
I have always wondered whether someone clever could device a successful before-school service for Decatur families. Between the different school locations and schedules, train tracks, jobs, and other factors, logistics are challenging even if both parents don’t work outside the home! The child care would probably be a combo of in-home care and ferrying to schools, rather than a drop-off location, but maybe the latter would work. I’m thinking my kids would do better in the morning with outsiders rather than with parents who inspire power struggles. The problem to overcome is probably insurance. That’s why you don’t see a lot of kid-taxi services around.
There is a kind of before-care in CSD: the free and reduced price school cafeteria breakfasts which begin serving about 20-30 minutes before school starts. You can pay full price. For awhile, one of my children loved that breakfast and would get up on time to take the bus to get it. Unfortunately, that was not a genetic trait passed on to the other child. And I’m not sure that early morning child care is the intent of the breakfast program.
Make that “devise”, not “device”. Besides a polling function, could Decatur Metro please install an automatic spell/grammar check function? I hate to annoy the grammarians.
This is a horrible school schedule for my family. I’d rather have my k-3 child to school at 7:45 than my middle schooler. And with school out at 2:45 my middle schooler will either have to latch- key it or I ‘ll have to pay for aftercare.
I am not one of the lucky modern workers with flex time.
Clairemont’s assembly starts at 8:00, but the children aren’t tardy until 8:15. No reason the change the bell schedule.
My suggestion is to voice your opinions to Dr. Edwards and Ms. McKain. Let them know if you are unhappy with this decision. They need to know. Once again it seems as though common sense has lost out in this decision. Except for the few early risers, anyone who is or has been a parent of a teenager knows it is almost impossible to get a teenager to bed early enough to get sufficient sleep even with the schedule the way it is now. Making it even earlier is clearly not good common sense.
“Learned Helplessness” should be the title of most of the posts on this thread (cheers Karass). I’m reminded of the episode of The Simpsons that showed Flander’s parents bringing him to a doctor, admitting that they never discipline him, and stating, “Doc, you gotta help us–we’ve tried nothin’ and we’re all outta ideas.”
I was never an early riser, but never had problems getting to school at 7:30am–and this was after a 50 minute bus ride.
Get up, kids, and go to school–let your parents do the whining.
Okay. Just got home. Haven’t read the previous posts. Just returned from one of our numerous week long breaks, (I can’t remember if it’s the spring break or one of the oh my goodness I just can’t work longer than six weeks without a vacation breaks….) and CSD has done just as many of us predicted. They issued the calender while everyone was gone. Surprise!
“Oh my goodness I just can’t work longer than six weeks without a vacation break…”
too funny
No, 7:45 is not that big of a deal and I went to high school 7:15-2:15 back in the day. However, 8:30 is WAY BETTER than that. Why go backward?
Hey folks, check this out, especially the CONCLUSION:
“Sleepiness” is serious in adolescence: two surveys of 3235 Canadian students.
Gibson ES, Powles AC, Thabane L, O’Brien S, Molnar DS, Trajanovic N, Ogilvie R, Shapiro C, Yan M, Chilcott-Tanser L.
Department of Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Faculty of Health Sciences, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, L8N 3Z5, Canada. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Evidence is growing that sleep problems in adolescents are significant impediments to learning and negatively affect behaviour, attainment of social competence and quality of life. The objectives of the study were to determine the level of sleepiness among students in high school, to identify factors to explain it, and to determine the association between sleepiness and performance in both academic and extracurricular activities
METHODS: A cross-sectional survey of 2201 high school students in the Hamilton Wentworth District School Board and the Near North District School Board in Ontario was conducted in 1998/9. A similar survey was done three years later involving 1034 students in the Grand Erie District School Board in the same Province. The Epworth Sleepiness Scale (ESS) was used to measure sleepiness and we also assessed the reliability of this tool for this population. Descriptive analysis of the cohort and information on various measures of performance and demographic data were included. Regression analysis, using the generalised estimating equation (GEE), was utilized to investigate factors associated with risk of sleepiness (ESS>10).
RESULTS: Seventy per cent of the students had less than 8.5 hours weeknight sleep. Bedtime habits such as a consistent bedtime routine, staying up late or drinking caffeinated beverages before bed were statistically significantly associated with ESS, as were weeknight sleep quantity and gender. As ESS increased there was an increase in the proportion of students who felt their grades had dropped because of sleepiness, were late for school, were often extremely sleepy at school, and were involved in fewer extracurricular activities. These performance measures were statistically significantly associated with ESS. Twenty-three percent of the students felt their grades had dropped because of sleepiness. Most students (58-68%) reported that they were “really sleepy” between 8 and 10 A.M.
CONCLUSION: Sleep deprivation and excessive daytime sleepiness were common in two samples of Ontario high school students and were associated with a decrease in academic achievement and extracurricular activity. There is a need to increase awareness of this problem in the education and health communities and to translate knowledge already available to strategies to address it.
Yeah, but the study was done with CANADIANS! I mean, come on. They’re just wanna-be Americans, but their obsession with hockey and poor pronunciation of words like “about” will forever keep them on a lower tier.
For those with no sense of humor (you know, like Canadians), this is a joke. And just for good measure, I will add a smiley.
🙂
LOL, Token! *giving you a virtual hair-ruffling*
But they do walk to school uphill in the snow daily! Even tough teens do better with sleep!
Point taken, Token!
I managed to find a study of good ‘ol American teens. Alas, they were Cheeseheads from Wisconsin, and they talk ‘purt near as funny as them Canadians.
AND THERE’S MORE FOR ANYONE WILLING TO DIG (except administrators, of course):
So, who wants more DHS students driving to school earlier? Anybody?
Sleep, sleepiness and school start times: a preliminary study.
Dexter D, Bijwadia J, Schilling D, Applebaugh G.
Department of Neurosciences, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, USA.
Abstract
BACKGROUND: High school students are reported to be excessively sleepy, resulting in decreased academic performance, increased psycho-social problems and increased risk of morbidity and mortality from accidents. Early school start times have been noted to contribute to this problem. This report attempts to confirm the relationship of early school start times with decreased sleep and increased sleepiness.
METHODS: We examined sophomore and junior students in 2 local high schools with different start times and measured the amount of time slept and sleepiness.
RESULTS: We found that students at the early start school reported reduced sleep time and more sleepiness than their counterparts at the later starting school.
CONCLUSION: Early school start times are associated with student reports of less sleep and increased sleepiness. Further studies in larger groups are recommended in view of the potential significant impact of sleep deprivation in this age group.
More caffeine, less sleep, less exercise all lead to problems–we don’t need a study to know that. But maybe parents should–uh, gasp–have their kids go to bed earlier. (“No Junior, you only need three Redbulls after dinner; Sally, time for bed, it’s nine o’clock,…)
Works for me and my kids–go to bed earlier, get up earlier, and don’t feel like crap all day.
(Full disclosure: my kids are not named Junior and Sally.)
I hesitate to ask this because you probably have 4 teenagers, all Merit Scholars, sports champions, and Eagle Scouts so I’m going to feel intimidated, but……do you have teenagers who actually go to bed early and get enough sleep? In my experience, both from my own large family growing up and from knowing current teens, teenagers have a distinct biological phase when they seem to need more sleep than they did when they were a bit younger. It’s that rapid growth of bones, hair, and hormones. So even kids who were incredible early risers and bus riders in childhood suddenly, around age 13-15, cannot get up early regardless of bedtime. Meanwhile everyone expects them to stay up later for school, Scouting, church, social events because their bodies look adult-like. But they actually crave sleep.
I understand that the issue of cost-effective bus schedules is a tough one. But I don’t think that just telling teens to go to bed earlier is addressing their sleep needs.
Anyone–teenager or not–that needs to get up early MUST go to bed earlier in order to function, I’m pretty sure it is that simple. Five year olds up to seventeen year olds are all growing–teens have a broader social life, that’s the difference–but they don’t need caffeine, cell phones, computers, tv, etc when it’s bedtime. If you’re tired during the day then you need more sleep–if you have to wake up at a certain time, and need more sleep, then you go to bed earlier. If they have a load of extracurricular activities then they obviously need more sleep. It’s not like school is starting at 5am; TeeRuss said it well, the real world doesn’t care when you went to bed or how much sleep you got.
All this talk about sleep, busing and sports, etc is window dressing for the argument against earlier school start times, and that argument, I’d bet, boils down to reluctant (or worse) parenting–like giving in to a whining toddler or teenager.
The biological need for sleep among some teens is pretty impressive. Some are going to bed by 9 PM most nights but still able to sleep soundly until 8 or 9 AM if left be. By the time one’s adult growth is over, the need drops so it’s pretty easy to forget those sleep cravings. And then most adults need less and less sleep as they age.
Maybe DHS could have naptime? I really miss that wonderful period of life when the kids would nap (and me too!)
Naaman Gibbetts, research refutes your points. Teenagers needing more sleep is not a failing on the part of the parents; it’s biology. Mr. Fixit is correct about a teenager’s circadian rhythms changing to make it nearly impossible for them to go to bed at, say, 9 p.m.
Yes, studies refute when they get sleepy, but not how much sleep they need. You’re right, so my question now is: are the administrators of CSD intentionally causing our kids to fail by changing the start time at the high school?
So they get sleepy later, right? but when do they go to sleep? after they’ve beaten the latest video game, texted all their friends, watched Stewart AND Colbert?
You can only speak from your experience and I from mine. My high schooler goes to bed at 10 every night without her phone, does not have screen time during the week, we don’t even own any video games, and she is still barely able to get up for school. She also walks to school which can take up to 45 minutes (she’s slow) and with a 7:45 start time will not have time to walk to school anymore.
My high school start time was 7:15 and while I am and have always been a very good driver, a great student and also went to bed on time, I had two accidents in HS due to sleep deprivation and had to get my mom to drive me to my college class (joint enrollment student, 20-minute drive every afternoon) because I was so tired I couldn’t drive in the afternoons anymore.
Even 30 more minutes of sleep (in the morning) makes a huge difference for these kids.
Two problems with that. First, just because you make them get in bed at 9:00 doesn’t mean that they will actually fall asleep. Studies such as those cited show that even with earlier bedtimes, teens just plain can’t fall asleep until about 11:00 on a consistent basis… it’s a biology thing rather than a discipline thing. As they enter adulthood, their circadian rhythms change back to something more reasonable and they can fall asleep and wake earlier.
The other problem is that not every parent is going to make their 15 year olds go to bed at 9:00. I would guess the vast majority won’t. CSD is accountable to the state and feds for their achievement, or lack thereof, regardless of whether parents are willing or able to impose an early bedtime. My guess is that the kids most at risk will be the ones most affected by this.
Is the busing radii used for K-3 school still 1 mile?
How about the high school and Renfroe? Those kids have longer legs….
If I’m not mistaken the radii can be increased to 1 1/2 miles for all schools.
I sure hope CSD has fully explored lessening bus service for some or all of our schools instead of placing the burden of the lopsided 4/5 placement on all of our children. This should be able to happen in a model Walk and Roll community.
I share others concerns about our teenagers. Yes, they will manage to get up in the morning. But I am yet again confused…. I thought CSD was trying to create a system that maximized our children’s potential and relied on the most current research. This decision seems to be about minimizing our bus usage, not maximizing our children’s potential.
School Board, please send central office back to the drawing board. Dr. Edwards earlier parent letter clearly stated that she did not intend to address this issue until after spring break. Maybe she needs a little more time to think this through.
I guess that should be maximize our bus usage. Fewer buses on the road for a longer period of time. Maximize use, minimize cost.
An article in a top educational research journal just last month titled “School Start Times and the Sleep−Wake Cycle of Adolescents : A Review and Critical Evaluation of Available Evidence” had this conclusion:
There is a sufficient body of evidence showing that adolescents experience changes in social context and physiology at the onset of puberty that cause them to develop an evening preference chronotype, predisposing them to go to sleep later at night and wake up later in the morning than children and adults (Crowley et al., 2007); this evening preference chronotype is not congruent with early school start times. The asynchrony between school start times and adolescent circadian rhythms can lead to an accu- mulation of sleep debt (Carskadon, 1999, 2002), is associated with cognitive impairments, and appears to adversely affect behavior, subjective levels of sleepiness, subjective levels of depression, and school-related variables such as attendance and tardiness (Dahl, 1999; Dinges & Kribbs, 1991; Wahlstrom, 2002). In accordance with this body of research, some schools have delayed school start times, with promising results. Adolescents who attend schools with later start times have been found to sleep more per night, resulting in a more positive tem- perament, fewer behavioral problems, and an increase in corre- lates of good academic performance (e.g., attendance, continuous enrollment; Center for Applied Research and Educational Improvement, 1998a; Owens et al., 2010; Wahlstrom, 2002).
Instituting a delay in school start times may be accompanied by complications related to transportation costs in some school districts, although this is a much lesser issue for high schools that already require students to use alternative transportation meth- ods (e.g., public transportation, car pools). In addition, changes in start times are associated with disruptions of extracurricular activities and other social and leisure activities in many school districts. However, with sufficient strategizing and preparation, the inconvenient consequences of changing school start times can be attenuated. There is evidence that with adequate planning and preparation, school boards have been able to delay school start times at acceptable monetary cost (given the enormous potential payoff) and tolerable disruption of community functioning.
Here is the citation:
School Start Times and the Sleep−Wake Cycle of Adolescents : A Review and Critical Evaluation of Available Evidence Matthew Kirby, Stefania Maggi and Amedeo D’Angiulli
EDUCATIONAL RESEARCHER 2011 40: 56