MARTA Approves Service & Workforce Cuts
Decatur Metro | June 28, 2010 | 12:59 pmMARTA wasn’t bluffing. The AJC reports the transit broad approved substantial budget cuts this morning.
In budget cuts the agency’s board approved unanimously Monday, 40 bus routes are going away. Trains will add wait times up to five minutes more each. Bathrooms will close to the public at 29 stations across the system. This will be the last year for shuttles to Braves games and the Lakewood Amphitheatre.
…In addition, more than 300 MARTA employees will lose their jobs, starting Tuesday. Between them and vacant positions, MARTA’s workforce is shrinking by 14 percent. Two of MARTA’s four ride stores are closing, at Lenox and Lindbergh stations. Customer call center hours are cutting back, and there will be fewer agents at stations.
And that’s not all. More HERE.
Related Posts:
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May 28, 2010 New Proposed MARTA Cuts Less Severe; Braves Shuttle Cut (17)
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July 23, 2010 Some Salaries Raise Questions To MARTA’s Role (10)
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June 28, 2011 Where’s the Center of Atlanta Today? (25)
Bus service in South Decatur has all but been eliminated.
I predict that these cuts in services will make riding MARTA less feasible for many which will result in a decrease in ridership which will cause a decrease in revenues which will result in cuts in services…..and so on. Is this really want the legislature, Governor, and people of Georgia want? Will they be satisfied when MARTA is driven out of business? What will happen to all the tracks, trains, and buses? Will the inability to sustain mass transit not hurt Georgia’s ability to attract businesses, conferences, tourists, and new residents who buy new homes that local businesses build? I just don’t get it. This may be related to my post about public officials needing to “meet” expectations on performance standards for governing.
We’re having a recession-induced budget crisis. What’s so hard to understand? There isn’t any additional money — state, county, or otherwise — lying around waiting to be spent on MARTA.
Maybe you have in mind a list of spending cuts that, if enacted, would free up some state money for MARTA. What are they? Would it be what seems to be the popular answer around here: that we stop maintaining our “car-based infrastructure”? In other words, let the roads fall apart (which they’re well on their way to doing already). Is it any wonder why that is a sure-fire political loser?
Didn’t the lack of support for MARTA way pre-date the recession?
Trying to weave as many posts together as possible :), I volunteer to take all the money spent on CRCT testing and put it towards decent mass transit. I’ll also donate funding for Georgia fishing promotion and that new Brasstown Bald Resort that our super business-like fiscal accountability seemed to miss.
:
I would pay twice what I am now to keep riding MARTA but, if it doesn’t go where I need to go or when I need to work or pick up kids, then I can’t spend anything on it.
I would pay twice what I am now to keep riding MARTA but, if it doesn’t go where I need to go or when I need to work or pick up kids, then I can’t spend anything on it.
_____________________
There, we agree. I think it is indisputable that the fares are far too low, and the failure to differentiate fares based upon destinations is inexcusably lousy management. Even worse — there was no fare increase at all for 8 years (2001-2009), meaning that inflation-adjusted fares were actually decreasing over that time. What a shocker — MARTA effectively lowered fares for almost a decade and now has a major financial problem. Who could have predicted it?
When MARTA’s management finally got around to making an increase, it was a mere 25 cents. So from 2001 to 2010, MARTA fares increased barely over 3 cents (less than 2%) per year, and all of that was backloaded to 2009. Horrible financial management, thy name is MARTA.
We therefore have one particular funding source — i.e., asking the ridership to fund a bit more of the cost — that is, at best, a last resort for MARTA.
Maybe we need an equivalent of food stamps for MARTA. Those of us who value MARTA and can afford to pay the real cost of service could pay. For those who can demonstrate a need to ride MARTA for employment or child care, but are low income by certain preset criteria, there’s a food stamp equivalent of MARTA for those purposes, sort of like food stamps will pay for certain food essentials for families who would otherwise be unable to buy adequate nutrition. I would think that ensuring that people can get to work to earn enough to spend on the basics of housing and living would be good for the economy in the long run. It could be a sliding fee scale if that’s what’s appropriate.
I think if there was the political will to sustain mass transit in Georgia, there’s a way.
I would support low monthly card holder fees, but jack up prices on one-way fares. That would be the best way to get fair value from the casual rider (far less likely to be price sensitive) but keep things affordable for the truly needy. That’s a start. Your idea is not a bad one, but the administrative costs would be high, wouldn’t they?
Yes, no roads, all transit. That’s what I’ve always proposed.
I might actually feel bad about taking a few measly hundreds of millions of dollars away from GDOT if they were actually effective about doing their job and balancing their own budget. But they’re in much deeper water than MARTA with a LOT more money available, so I don’t feel so bad about it.
The reason it’s not a popular political position only has to do with the whole “two Georgias” thing. It’s a reason, but not an excuse.
The MARTA cuts will hit the low income and other public transit dependent population the hardest, many of whom own no car and use MARTA for their commute to jobs. In is quite clear that the Republican controlled legislature and Governor only care about the big bidness friends and suburban voters.
Having ridden MARTA many times, I’ve noticed that virtually everyone has a cell phone and/or portable music device with them. Perhaps they care a lot more about paying Apple/AT&T hundreds of dollars for I-phones, I-pods and other portable devices than they do about paying extra a bit of extra money for their commute. And there we have the victimization of the modern American poor: asking them to pay more for their commute at the expense of their text messaging. seems it’s my responsibility to pony up even more tax money so they can have both.
This is ridiculous. You are passing judgment on people’s spending habits. Virtually anyone can get a cell phone at a reasonable price. They don’t have a say in how much MARTA charges for it’s fares. Another Rick is right about lower income people being hit the hardest. The Georgia Legislature has never supported Atlanta or public transit in a meaningful way. Anything they’ve done recently is too little, too late.
I wouldn’t pass judgment on their spending habits if they did not want to pay for their transportation with my tax money. If you claim poverty and want to stick your hand in my pocket, I feel quite justified in asking how poor you really are in the first place.
YOUR tax $? Everyone pays taxes! People traveling on MARTA are just as worthy as any other “economic project population” to be supported. Get over it!
What about all the people who utilize roads 10x more frequently than I do? Can I ask those entitled folk how poor they really are that they can’t pay their fair share?
And before you say “gas tax”, allow me to remind you that the legislature has on countless occasions lowered the gas tax in recent years, in lieu of the fact that GDOT has enormous debts that will soon be forcing it to pass up millions of dollars in federal match.
Go ahead and ask them, right after you figure out a way to determine who they are. Good luck with that.
I for one drive fewer miles than probably 98% of Americans, and pay a huge tax bill every year. So I am “subsidizing” the 100 mile commuters as much as almost anyone. But according to Another Rick below, it doesn’t matter. I’m just another pig suckling at the government teet. Oh, same for my mortgage, even though my federal tax liability alone is about 3X my mortgage payments for the year. With subsidies like that, it’s a wonder that I keep working.
They haven’t really lowered the gas tax, they’ve just not increased it. Georgia has the second loweest motor fuel tax per gallon in the US.
I ride MARTA all the time. It’s easy for your eye and attention to be drawn to those apparently aimless twenty-somethings with earphones and music and an attitude. But the folks you see day after day are folks like us, folks intent on going to work, reading a memo to catch up, older ladies clutching their purses, Moms bringing their children to drop them off at daycare and then go on to work, security guards with their uniforms on, Georgia State students chattering to one another (ok they DO have headphones on at the same time), private school students going to or from school etc etc etc. You see the same faces day after day after day at the same time of day so you know they are on their way to work or school and back. Most are not on cell phones, they are either reading or snoozing, resting a bit at the beginning or end of the day. And I have to confess that I am on my cell phone sometimes, making sure my son made it home ok, talking to the babysitter, asking my husband if he can pick something up on his way home; life and work are busy and sometimes one has to multitask.
Re cell phones: TracPhones are REAL cheap–I know because that’s what I buy when I sporadically need a family member to have one, e.g. at Disneyworld. You don’t need a plan and the cheap no-frills TracPhones come essentially free with the minutes and period of service. You can get a no-frills phone, 3 months of service, and plenty of minutes for ordinary use at a cost less than the cost of the food I bought for church social hour the other day, cheaper than a pot roast that feeds six, cheaper than food at Willy’s for six, and cheaper than what I spend on MARTA every two weeks WITH a monthly discount.
+1 to this.
On the claim that “I see lots of poor folks wasting their money on electronic gizmos,” see also selective perception and selective tetention.
“Selective perception” – I can verify that this is often the case when people start judging others.
Thanks for giving a link to an exact definition — remind me to remind some others when I see this occurring.
So I guess you are saying the working poor do not pay taxes. How do you know that device is not a $29 mp3 device from target, or that cell phone is not a Metro PCS ($50 month, unlimited service) or a cheap prepaid service? And who subsidized the road you drive on and the home you bought? Pathetic.
Congrats, you just went from having a point to trolling. Personal attacks against some MARTA riders does not negate the previous point regarding MARTA and who rides it. Saying ‘I’ve seen people with X’ does not mean anything about the demographics of MARTA riders.
I’m proud of how many people just jumped on DEM for ad hominem attacks.
Too bad you apparently don’t know what ad hominem means.
Really? I think his usage matches the dictionary’s and I was excited to learn three new terms in just this one thread–ad hominem, selective perception, and selective retention. I plan to use all of them in my next “discussion” with dear hubbie.
From http://www.dictionary.com:
ad ho·mi·nem Show Spelled[ad hom-uh-nuhm ‐nem, ahd-] Show IPA
–adjective
1. appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason.
2. attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument.
Use ad hominem in a Sentence
See images of ad hominem
Search ad hominem on the Web
Compare ad feminam.
——————————————————————————–
Origin:
< L: lit, to the man
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.
Cite This Source | Link To ad hominem
ad hom·i·nem (hŏm'ə-něm', -nəm)
adj. Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.
[Latin : ad , to + hominem , accusative of homō , man .]
ad hom'i·nem' adv.
Usage Note : As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes. This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. · Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in "Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together" (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. · A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in "Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination" (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem , being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in "Their recourse … to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus" (Donna M. Riley).
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
Word Origin & History
ad hominem
c.1600, from L., lit. "to a man," from ad "to" + hominem, acc. of homo "man."
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source
Cultural Dictionary
ad hominem [(ad hom -uh-nem, ad hom -uh-nuhm)]
A Latin expression meaning “to the man.” An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance.
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source
Are you serious? From the very link you quote:
“The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one’s opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. ”
My “opponents” are the people who disagree with me in this thread. Exactly where did I personally attack any of them?
DEM: You are right that you didn’t attack the posters who opposed your views on this thread. But there seems to be multiple nuances to “ad hominem” from what I’m reading and I have to admit that this is a brand new term for me. Previously I think I had it confused with “ad nauseum” and “ibid”! To me, you made a global attack on MARTA riders based on a shrewd but stereotyped characterization of MARTA riders as folks who have trouble affording transportation because they spend profligately on “Apple/AT&T hundreds of dollars for I-phones, I-pods and other portable devices”. That fits the meaning of “ad hominem” as in “appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason” or “An ad hominem argument is one that relies on personal attacks rather than reason or substance.”
But I don’t pretend to have a deep understanding of the term “ad hominem”! However, I DO intend to use the term in domestic discussions with the hope that dear hubbie will be so impressed with my use of Latin that he will immediately fold on all differences of opinion.
karass!
You rock! Folks rarely cite dictionary definitions anymore! I *heart* dictionary.com! Wonder if it’s possibly a gender thing… the guys usually go with wikipedia.
*Cell phones are also a safety necessity. No more pay phones around.
(I’m very curious as to how DEM determined the cell phone users/music listeners who are at risk from MARTA’s cuts. Maybe he’s actually looking out for YOU?!?)
The issue at hand aside, DEM is the one using the term correctly. He’s making a logic-based argument and providing particular evidence to support it. Just because his evidence includes observed behaviors of actual people, or that you think it’s unfairly leveled, doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not it qualifies as ad hominem.
Everyone may now resume fighting over transit.
Agreed.
Another thought about cell phones. They are now the poor man’s phone. If you’ve appied for jobs, you need a phone number and/or email/text contact so they can contact you for screening, set up an interview, let you know you’ve got the job, et.c. You can get away without an apartment, you can get away without a car (unless MARTA disappears), but you can’t get away without a cell phone.
I’m not saying that there aren’t a few aimless or homeless types hanging out on MARTA–you’d find that on the NY Subway, SF BART, Washington Metro too–especially in summer when the heat’s oppressive on the street. But having a cell phone is not a sign of profligate spending these days, it’s a necessity for someone looking for a job.
And I should have mentioned that it’s MUCH cheaper than a land line. So many on a tight budget are opting for cheap prepaid cell phone only.
I can’t figure out how it makes sense to eliminate the Lakewood Shuttle, essentaiily making it impossible to ride MARTA to a concert at the amphitheater. Every time I ever went to Lakewood, the trains and shuttles were packed.
Ditto for the Braves shuttle according to the baseball fans in my family.
Yeah, I’ve see hordes of people lining up for the Braves shuttle at Five Points station many times.
The walk from Georgia State station to Turner Field is easy. I don’t think people are aware of this.
Depends on the heat and rain situation whether our family’s baseball fans prefer the shuttle or walking. And the suburbanites are just plain scared to venture into the open air of the big city!
I can’t make the math on that one work. 4 family members to the stadium (and back) via MARTA = $16. Parking at the Braves stadium: $10. Maybe if the Braves charged $20 to park like they do at other stadiums, they could drop the price of beer a buck.
Your math ignores the cost of gas and other costs associated with driving.
That extra $6 seems kinda worth it to eliminate the hassles of traffic delays, finding parking, and exiting the dang parking lot after the ballgame. ( I feel for the emptying wallet aspect too. Guess it’s a matter of what bugs more!)
It’s a very sad day, indeed. As an avid supporter and daily MARTA rider, I’m just shocked at the state of MARTA and lack of broad support by the state. I hope Perdue, in his last hours, realizes that these cuts will mean more people will have to turn to public assistance b/c it’s going to mean many more people won’t have jobs if they can’t get to them.
It’s also going to force others to drive their cars – or buy them — creating more pollution. Ick. I’ve already seen my fair share of environmental cancers pop up here in Atlanta. We’re already code RED in summer so many days.
This is ridiculous. We need a governor who understands the future of Georgia. What message does this send to businesses wanting to relocate here? We have the brainpower, but no brains when it comes to public transit.
This is real discouraging news. Until the Federal Gov’t steps in & explains the necessity of a successful mass transit system to the Georgia Folks, things aren’t going to change. Sure hope that with Hank Johnson now on the Transportation Committee, that will happen sooner rather than later.
Washington has already made its position known many times. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood (a Republican, BTW) said it rather bluntly last fall in an appearance at the World Congress Center – we’ll get more federal $$ “when you get your act together”. Hank being on the committee will help, but Georgia needs to put some skin in the game. I actually spoke to Hank’s office this morning and they are as frustrated as anyone else.
Stern messages before select audiences don’t mean diddly to the Gold Dome crowd. “If the voters didn’t hear it…*yawn* ” always seems to be their reaction.
Hank needs to straight out embarrass the hell out of these folks! Getting tough with constant reporting is the ONLY thing that gets their attention! Feed the local media a steady stream of Washington honchos & transit experts weighing in & keep the MARTA p.r. team doing their thing. If the nat’l media decides to go along too (Helloooo CNN!)– then even better! The great thing is, the media now knows THE MEDIA HAS CLOUT ON THE MARTA ISSUE!!! Hank just needs to help hook them up with the info! Georgia’s citizens will supply the outrage!
Hank could start his campaign of embarassment with the Congressman to his West that has represented most of Marta’s territory for 23 years
I mean, if we’re going to say that members of Congress have any influence over this, then let’s not start with the guy who’s been in office for only 3 years and has 2 marta stops in his district.
I guess what I’m saying is – this is a state government issue. And if it’s not, then shame on John Lewis.
You’re right. You’re absolutely right. (Except for the Hank needs to ask part. Getting into a blame game wouldn’t help a bit.) The media needs to be flat out asking ALL THE FOLKS who represent ALL GEORGIANS what efforts they’ve made on the MARTA front & what their plan is to get this done NOW. If it’s NOT a concern for them, just tell us! We can sure as hell make it one!!!
[John Lewis is my hero. I adore how he continues to approach addressing wrongs in his quiet, steady, respectful manner. I don’t fault him for a lack of effort on the MARTA front. I do think he needs to be a tad firmer with his expectations & delivery in order to jolt folks into awareness. Even if it means he has to get a little of the attention & credit too. ( I mean, Really! A big time politician who’s not in it for the accolades! Whoever heard of such a thing???) ]
( Oh dear. Looks like I’m getting riled up again about the MARTA thing! Steve, it’s not directed at you! :0)
I know it’s not to me.
The local media and business community have been making a big deal of the transportation thing for a long time. It’s one of the AJC’s favorite editorial subjects and the Metro Atlanta Chamber has a person that works full time on transportation. The fact that we’re going to lose an $87M earmark doesn’t phase the Gold Dome folks either.
After three years, the legislature finally passed a lame transportation funding bill and they think that’s the answer.
The key is the NOISY MEDIA- Thomas Wheatley, the blogs, the social networks, and TV news!!! That’s what gets folks agitated & activated & able to get action! The AJC does a fine job, but the Gold Dome Folks know that detailed articles are read by a select audience that’s less inclined to actually rabble rouse. The same applies to the Metro Atl Chamber’s efforts. The Gold Domers bank on all this staying at the level of dinner table conversations. This is not the time for polite responses! ( The Chamber & the AJC both benefit from the noisy media’s coverage. And Cox Media should be utilizing Cynthia Tucker’s TV appeal to cover the Washington aspects. )
Loud & frequent attention on the MARTA issue is the only way to bring about change. ( And it’s a smart move for the noisy media because it keeps folks tuned in & talking! Even the folks who’ll never ride MARTA will pay attention to a bunch of @#*! politicians under fire scrambling to fix this #@#*! mess!!! )
Didn’t mean to downplay the vital role of other newspapers & radio/ tv stations all over Georgia. Examining how the MARTA crisis also has consequences for non Metro citizens will help to prioritize it with all Georgians. As folks learn more, they’ll likely care. What’s important to them usually becomes important to their elected officials.
Yep. Unless he thinks the buses might “capsize” if they get too many riders!
To effect change, you tax or raise the price of what you don’t want to encourage (Braves parking, driving (via tolls or a gas tax), CO2 pollution (via carbon tax), etc.) and lower the price of what you do want to encourage (riding public transit, telecommuting (via lower internet rates and higher bandwidth), etc.)
So, a quick glance at articles like this tells me that Georgia legislature rules over an ignorant backwater just like I thought this place was when I moved here two years ago.
Surprisingly, insulting folks doesn’t often effect positive change.
“So, a quick glance at articles like this tells me that Georgia legislature rules over an ignorant backwater just like I thought this place was when I moved here two years ago.”
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Or looked at another way, legislators who represent the “other”, i.e., non-metropolitan, Georgia may feel compelled to represent the interests and priorities of their constituents. Those people are never going to favor subsidizing public transit in Atlanta unless they can see how it directly benefits them. Meanwhile, most have been struggling economically since long before the current economic crisis hit the rest of us, which only makes them more resistant to such a notion. And GDOT is their friend–it re-paves and expands highways they depend on for access to decent health care and even what we consider basic retail options, not to mention it’s how many of them get to work if they’re fortunate enough to have it.
BTW, Durr Dwan, if you came from someplace where these kinds of conflicting priorities and perspectives did not drive state legislative antics, I’d be interested to know where that place is.
Now place that in the context of Georgia’s time-honored deference to the road-building interests, and it’s no wonder we are in our present fix. Getting wholeheartedly behind public transit requires a significant paradigm shift on the part of a population who are largely suburban or rural in outlook, by which I mean using their own motor vehicles to get around–and to express themselves–is deeply, DEEPLY ingrained. And here I’m including the metro area’s “outer” counties–the ones who have not wanted to support MARTA (or any other part of the metro infrastructure), but prefer to sit in their cars on the expressways for hours each day.
What we need is leadership with the backbone and the ability to articulate the case that we are all in this together, not only with respect to transportation but that’s a mighty good place to start.
Does anyone know if MARTA has a underfunded pensions timebomb? I suspect it does…
Why aren’t they raising fares? Or did I miss that part of the article.
They are increasing fares over the next three years on the weekly, monthly and mobility pass, along with the reduced fare, with increases every year for each except the reduced fare, which will go up 5 cents in 2012 and 5 cents in 2013. Here’s the chart if you’re interested.
As we’ve discussed previously, the argument against huge jacks in the the fare has to do with correlating declines in ridership. With each increase there are certain declines in ridership, which have been detailed here in the past. We can tell MARTA to raise their fares and hope for the best, but that’s a pretty big risk for an agency with no stable financial support.
And there is the rub.
Why don’t they allow people to eat and drink on the trains etc, and have vendors paying rent to open booths to sell all kinds of things (coffee/newspapers..) at the MARTA stations? Surely that would increase income for MARTA – am I missing something obvious here?
Allowing people to eat and drink on the trains? Terrible idea, the train cars would turn into swamps of garbage in about a week, unless MARTA hired a whole cleaning force to keep them in tolerable condition.
Laws were changed last year so that eating and drinking in stations – not in vehicles – is now allowed. MARTA has a vending program on its way to up and running, recently covered in the AJC (http://www.ajc.com/news/whatever-happened-to-marta-450183.html). As stated by smalltowngal, food/drink on the vehicles would probably turn into a cleanliness nightmare.
Decimating MARTA services is a very irrational and sabotaging approach to helping Atlanta and Georgia prosper and grow. I suspect there are many in charge of the purse strings for MARTA who actually want Atlanta to decay to the level that rural Georgia now wallows in. As if sub- or unemployment and poor education support aren’t enough to overcome, the working people in Atlanta are being handed another hurdle to jump to keep their jobs and put food on the table. Those who can afford to have cars and pay for all of the attendant expenses (loan payments, insurance, registration, gasoline, and repairs) drive every day on streets and roads that are paid for by taxes from ALL OF US. Subsidized transportation but no complaints about that from the car drivers. Choose your mode of transportation, but THINK about where those streets and roads and bridges come from.
The Federal Highway Trust Fund that collects federal motor fuels taxes and pays the upkeep of US highways and interstates is is completely busted. It must rely on annual appropriations from Congress. Roads are not paying for themselves and neither are the users, so those of us who drive cars are being subsidized.
It would be very easy to convert to a user fee system, where mileage is counted everytime a driver fills up and a fee is added to the gasoline. A mileage counter could be attached to a car and it would electronicly download at the gas station.
Ridership would increase, fare collections would rise and transit would function better if we began to severly limit growth in non-urban areas of Metro Atlanta. Building more transit while enabling more sparwl is a poor investment for everyone. The Obama administration knows this, and we aren’t getting much help with transit as a result.
So DEM, if you cringe at paying for other people’s transit, you should be in full support of Progressive Dem’s method of paying for roads based on mileage, no?
DM I think you are reading a bit too much into what I’ve said. I haven’t said I completely object to all taxpayer funding for MARTA. It already gets that. Most of the cost of MARTA is paid by taxes, not fares. My position is that in solving its fiscal crises, MARTA needs to squeeze more money from the riders, and stop begging for general tax revenues, which almost seems to be its default position. We’re simply out of money and need to reign in spending at all levels. I think calls for more state funding for MARTA ignore this reality.
I would not necessarily oppose a more user-based system for funding roads. I don’t know enough about these specific proposals to give them the thumbs up or a thumbs down. I don’t particularly want the government checking my odometer or tracking me, though. There are less intrustive ways of accomplishing this. As a general idea, if we made roads more of a toll concept, I would likely support that. Some states already have it, or close to it. I also support a much bigger gas tax, which is a decent proxy for how many miles one drives, and would do a lot more to combat oil consumption than current/proposed mandates about fleet gas mileage and electric cars. But to my mind, those new taxes would have to be offset by reductions in income taxes. If not, the government will just go back to wasting all of that money, plus more.
So just fo fill out your point, you’d be okay with making your local roads operate on a toll concept? Because let’s not get too caught up into the idea that it’s all interstates and GDOT 4-lane separated highways that have road funding issues. East Ponce costs the state and the county money. Sycamore costs the city money. And so on and so on. We all pay for it through our taxes – even if, speaking for myself, I never ride a bus across it, if one even runs there to begin with.
word.
It would be very easy to convert to a user fee system, where mileage is counted everytime a driver fills up and a fee is added to the gasoline. A mileage counter could be attached to a car and it would electronicly download at the gas station.
Not so sure–it seems to me that outfitting all cars (including all used ones) with these things, plus all gas stations, would be a massive undertaking. We’d also have to look out for fraud. I think it would be far simpler just to raise the gasoline tax significantly. Also, given the environmental impacts of burning lots of gas, charging more of a premium to the person who drives 300 miles in his H2 Hummer than the person who drives 300 miles in his Honda Civic makes sense to me.
Maybe both fees are necessary. The mileage counter funds the building and maintenance of roads. If certain vehicles tear up the roads more than others, e.g. heavy vehicles or vehicles with studded snow tires, than mileage counters will have to be set differently for different types of vehicles and equipment. The gas tax addresses a different cost–the cost of fuel. If road transportation incurs both kinds of costs, then both should be charged if we are going to charge users the full costs like is proposed if MARTA users are charged full cost.
I guess this is becoming a discussion of whether transportation users should be charged a per piece price as it is used instead of being charged through their taxes that support the road or mass transit system. It’s analagous to the airlines now charging us for each bag, each pillow, each blanket, each meal, each unaccompanied minor, etc. instead of bundling all those costs into the price of a ticket. I saw recently that some airline may soon charge a bathroom fee!
Not sure about how the details for paying for the mileage you drive would work out, but that’s actually a pretty good idea. That’s pretty much the only thing that will get people out of their cars and on mass transit.
But I question the impact it would have on people in very rural areas or without any reasonable transportation options other than cars.
Yes, I like this. Pay-as-you-drive on tax-payer subsidized infrastructure. Yes. Yes.
This is so true: “Building more transit while enabling more sparwl is a poor investment for everyone.”
Metro Atlanta, even in the ‘intown’ areas, has the type of sprawling built environment that makes car ownership and roads a necessity for convenient movement across most of the landscape. Trying to fit a functional transit system within this type of development is very difficult. That MARTA has found some measure of success in doing so for decades, without state funding, is an incredible achievement.
This idea of a user fee based on mileage is very cool. I think this could help discourage the toxic growth pattern we have in the metro: sprawl enabling road subsidies symbiotically linked with car-dependent, low-density development. The strength of support for this pattern makes compact, walkable development harder to build than it should be, and it likewise makes transit’s ROI harder to achieve.
Totally agree. Transit without an accompanying land use plan really is a missed opportunity on many levels, including providing anti-transit types with plenty of apparent evidence that “transit doesn’t work”.
Add to that the reality that even people who like transit in theory still push for all kinds of things that undermine a successful transit-friendly environment. Look what happens every time the Beltline discussion turns to transit and the rezoning of adjacent property for higher densities. The surrounding intown neighborhoods start whigging out, making any productive headway virtually impossible.
Or even here, in our own progressive little ‘burg. We’re probably the best example Georgia has of a transit-friendly environment and yet we still get people complaining about downtown development — the very place our development should be directed to encourage more transit and less car use. Or initiatives to close off neighborhood streets, pushing more cars onto fewer roads and, in the process, making the pathways between residences and Marta stations psychological barriers to anyone wanting to walk to the train.
I’m not saying people are wrong in their actions. Just that pushing for transit while maintaining an auto-focused status quo in behavior is the recipe for stagnation.
YES. thank you very much.
Am I missing something here………?
I assume Marta’s mission is public transportation.
They have a budget issue and the response is “Hey!, I’ve got a great money saving idea, if we just cut these pesky busses and trains out or the equation think of the money we could save….”
We can buy new buses, Have bus stops every block, run empty full size buses around and have lots o’ infrastructure etc. And, cutting service is the best money saving idea we have ???
State law that forces, I think 50% of their budget to capital improvements & infrastructure, hmmm something else to deal with – perhaps.
ah leadership, yep!
The state has waived the 50% capital/operations split for three years but it shouldn’t exist at all. Depending on who you ask, it is there to (a) make sure the system can be expanded in the future, (b) to keep operations barely limping by so that choice riders won’t choose MARTA but it’ll still get low cost laborers to their workplaces or (c) build up a honeypot that will be used for suburban bus rapid transit when the state takes over MARTA and focuses transit on the needs of suburbanite commuters.
Given the actions of Jill Chambers, I don’t think it is really any of the choices above. I think it is just blind rage at having to deal with our state having one of those socialist mass transit systems.
Rant time…
After living here for over a decade, I’ve given up on Georgia. I’m a choice rider on MARTA… a person with an advanced degree and high paying white collar job who has many transportation options but chose to use mass transit to help make this a better place. I went without a car for three and a half years, which is something 99% of the population of the metro thinks is impossible to do. But due to the service cuts and the outright hostility displayed by the state, I’ve give up and purchased a car. Even the Beltline seems to have turned into a parks, housing, and jobs program with the transit component given only lip service.
I’m now going to be in traffic, contributing to congestion. I’m now going to driving around, polluting the air that we all share. I swore that if the transportation situation here ever got to the point where having a car became a necessity, that I’d move. So now that time has come. Due to the real estate market, I can’t move today but in the next year or two, I’ll be gone. Some other metro will get the benefit of having me in their labor market, spending money in their economy, and my contributions to their tax base.
As a choice rider, I am also a choice locator. Maybe it is projection to think so, but I imagine others are starting to see the metro in the same way: a lost cause. Our little blue dot in the sea of red is going to get swallowed up or at the very least continued to be punished for not choosing to live like it is 1950. Maybe Oxendine’s tunnels and interstates through the middle of intown neighborhoods will finally put an end to the last bit of quality living in the metro.
I’m sure some will say don’t let the door hit you on the way out but it is just that kind of thinking that is going to make Georgia lose its competitiveness to other states. We seem to be falling back on the old Southern “third world in the US” strategy of cheap uneducated labor and government favoritism of the business class over the citizens of the state. For a long time the state has relied on importing an educated workforce for its white collar jobs rather than produce such workers in large enough numbers here. It appears though that it task of attracting that section of the workforce is going to be more and more difficult as other metros learn from the development pattern mistakes of the past and turn themselves into places with better quality of life.
Meanwhile, Georgia will continue its march to becoming the asphalt state.
Well put. Can I go with you?
…”Our little blue dot in the sea of red is going to get swallowed up …”
——-
Just a reminder: we are not a blue dot in a sea of red. We (the greater Atlanta area) represent a blue spot surrounded by masses of red and purple, with other blue spots also visible in the state. The red/blue dichotomy is a false one, and it generates heat instead of light to bring it into this type of discussion. Please see
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/countymappurpler1024.png
(That’s supposed to be a link, use it accordingly.)
I, for one, am glad that is the case, since it bodes less ill for the possibility of rational discourse and better solutions.
Jason K, you’ve made it clear you are fed up and intend to leave, which is fine. I’m pointing this out primarily as a reminder to those of us who anticipate sticking it out.
Thank you for your post. So very tired of the red vs. blue crap that media and political talking heads have brainwashed most of the citizenry into believing. We are purple, with fringes of blue and red around our edges. Even more tired of the those who wave their blue or red banner as if it were some elitist sign indicating that everyone else is an idiot.
POWER TO THE PURPLE!
I’m not usually one for slogans, but you’ve given me a new rallying cry! Power to the purple, indeed!
Images of Decatur folks bopping about in purple fezs with red & blue fringe tassels swinging merrily along..!!!
Why not ride your bike to work? Then you don’t rely on MARTA or your car.
Jason,
Sure hope that our elected Georgia officials read your frustrations that you’ve expressed so well here. Otherwise, they’re not likely to ever “get” the full magnitude of what their inaction is costing our state.
Fingers crossed that they’ll act before your moving deadline arrives!
What’s so ironic is that our Governor is a total supporter of teleworking and makes it easy for state workers to do that. I’ve always assumed that it was a concern about traffic and air quality that was behind that support. Doesn’t mass transit also address those concerns? Why the inconsistency?
Perdue only did that because he knew it would create a tiny decrease MARTA ridership.
Supporting teleworking is a way to salute issues of traffic and air quality without disturbing GDOT and their lobby.
[…] Decatur Metro posts about MARTA’s service cuts and ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. And by “hell,” we mean […]
MARTA is bluffing. It’s simply putting pressure, with the help of the general public, on the state legislature to come up with additional funding. Sure sign of a bluff: Threatened elimination of two popular shuttles (Braves, Lakewood).