City of Decatur Plans To Enact New Ordinance Regarding Car Booting
Decatur Metro | March 21, 2016 | 2:05 pm
As this site has inadvertently documented over the years, car booting has long been an issue in Decatur.
Though every property owner has a right to enforce parking restrictions, residents have often claimed that some booting practices have been pretty aggressive.
Well, it looks like the city is now in the final stages of enacting some new ground rules regarding the practice. From tonight’s city commission meeting – a note from Asst. City Manager Lyn Menne…
The purpose of this memorandum is to request approval of Ordinance O-16-YYamending Section 84 of Chapter 98 – TRAFFIC AND VEHICLES of the City Ordinance covering the use of mechanical locking devices or boots for automobiles. Four amendments to this section are proposed:
- Establishing a maximum amount of $40 that can be charged to remove a mechanical locking device (boot). This rate is equal to the City’s parking fine for parking in a no-parking zone.
- Requiring that attendants attaching and removing boots must wear identification.
- Specifying that payment machines located on private lots that use boots as an enforcement tool must accept cash and credit card payments.
- Specifying that payment machines must be in working order at the time a booting device is attached.
It is recommended that the proposed amendments become effective April 15, 2016.
Photo courtesy of Stephanie
These boots are made for walking, and that’s just what they’ll do
One of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you
“These Boots are Made for Walkin'”
-Nancy Sinatra
New slogan: CoD – Making Private Property Public
With such low caps on fees, the city will remove all incentives for booters to work with anyone in CoD, thus rendering enforcement of restrictions imposed by private property owners nearly impossible, essentially converting private property into free public parking.
Of course, the law of unintended consequences may come into play. Private property owners will skip the relatively painless boot and just start towing everyone. If you think having a boot removed sucks, you clearly have never had your car towed. If you are lucky, it will take you only half a day to get it back, and those fees exceed boot removal fees.
Another unintended consequence: to make up for lost revenue, the private contractors become even more aggressive and boot even more cars.
I also wonder if the reduction to $40 will effectively end the practice of booting within the city. On the other hand, booting seems to me to be a rather poor solution to a problem. As you note, booters only make money when cars are being booted. They don’t get paid to be there by the property owner or the booting company. The property owner and tenants, however, would surely prefer that all customers read and understand the signs and not get booted. I’m sure both the property owner and parking company are happy to boot the guy that uses the CVS lot as Taco Mac overflow parking, but it’s a different situation when it’s the person who crosses the street for a sandwich after getting a haircut or while waiting for a prescription to be filled.
I guess I just fail to see a ” problem”. I see a private property owner using legal means to enforce legal parking restrictions on his property. I see a private property owner restricting parking for his own self interest (his property value will be affected if his tenants can’t pay rent because their businesses suffer due to insufficient parking). The only problem I see is the government not liking how the private property owner is using his property, and the city enacting ordinances designed to change that behavior.
The problem in my view is basically the expectation of free parking, and the cascading effects once it is provided. Some clearly seek to take advantage of the “free” parking, the property owner responds by booting and along the way angers many of the tenants’ customers.
It’s a PR problem for Decatur, just like Park Atlanta has been a PR problem for Atlanta. To the extent our central business district relies on non-Decaturites as customers (which it does), the city needs to promote a visitor-friendly atmosphere. While I respect the right of the lot owner to boot, being told you can’t leave unless you pay what appears to be a random person off the street (hence the uniform requirement) what likely seems like a ridiculously high sum of money for the infraction (hence matching the cost to what the public has determined is the “fair” price) is not a repeat visitor likely to make. Us locals read these boards and know not to park in a lot that boots, but a visitor may be confused and/or not read the sign, and the lots owners/booters know that, effectively, there is no one for the visitor to complain to (think of it as a private tax on out-of-towners).
FWIW, business interests did show up and essentially make a similar argument to what you’ve laid out here. The city commission apparently agreed, sending the idea back to the drawing board.
Maybe property owners could just charge everyone a reasonable fee for parking in their private lot, and business owners could – if they choose – validate parking or reimburse customers in some way?
“Private property owners will skip the relatively painless boot and just start towing everyone.”
Will they, though? Given the probability that the offending driver will likely depart before the tow truck’s arrival, what is the incentive of the towing company to respond to such calls? Do they have an expected failure rate threshold that they use for likely short-term parkers in retail lots, particularly in extremely tight quarters such as CVS? Given the havoc it would create among legitimate shoppers there while they maneuver around, towing doesn’t seem like a good solution for anybody. That’s why you boot instead.
I don’t think the proposed regs are out of line considering some of the abuses in the past.
Two ways to handle:
The Lazy Way – Ask the government to do something so you don’t have to.
The Freedom/Consumer way – Be proactive in the community by advising business owners that you will stop shopping at their business if the parking company continues it’s behavior. The business, not wanting to lose customers, puts pressure on the property owner to make a change.
The Freedom way may take longer, but the power of the purse (and our voice) is always preferable to adding more laws and regulations, in my opinion.
i’ve very proactive. ever since the booting started i’ve stopped even thinking about patronizing any of the shops there. it probably won’t make a difference but i doubt me telling them that i dislike the practice of booting would either. it’s their right to do it, and it’s my right to not want to have to deal with it. i’d much rather go somewhere else even if it means paying a parking meter. at least the parking meter doesn’t mind where i go after i give it money.
I like it. I would just make sure you let the businesses know why you aren’t shopping there anymore.
Agreed. There is a balance between sufficient parking and overzealous enforcement. When the businesses start suffering b/c people are afraid to park there, the level of enforcement will swing back the other way. My personal feeling on this is that for every one individual who leaves the premises while waiting for a prescription for 20 minutes (and who airs their unhappiness on DM), there are multiple people parking for in the lot for longer period of times who are at T.Mac or Ted’s. Also, while I believe the manager of CVS may be (or least appear) unhappy that you got booted while leaving the site after shopping at CVS (and patronizing off site businesses), he isn’t too upset with the overall arrangement.
And why does one think just b/c they shopped at CVS first, they are entitled to leave their car while they go offsite? Running across the street for 5 minutes is one thing, but where do you draw the line? Why not go to CVS, buy a gumball for a quarter, and then go sit at T.Mac for four hours and watch a game?
Outside of “I’d like a small coffee”, “It’s really annoying that your landlord boots cars in this lot” is the most common refrain heard at Dancing Goats. The coffee shop and its employees are WELL aware of how annoyed its customers get. I don’t think it’s made any difference at all.
When did the Dancing Goats lot start booting? I know they’ve got the obligatory signage up but I’ve never seen anyone actually doing it (typically there around 9am).
This is a ridiculous statement. I mean, seriously, who the hell orders a SMALL coffee?!?
One thing to keep in mind is the burden that the highly aggressive booting has placed on our police. I don’t know if there are statistics on the number of calls or time spent dealing with “booting calls”, but I do know a few of our officers spend quite a lot of their on-duty time in the CVS parking lot dealing with people who have had boots placed on their cars.
Why should the police respond to booting in a private parking lot. That is not a police matter. Isn’t parking in the DeKalb Courthouse free anyway? I have sympathy for someone who shops there and then runs across the street for something quick, but people who park there and go to Taco Mac know better. They see a full Taco Mac lot and the meter on the street and try to park for free. They deserve to pay.
Maybe they should pass an ordinance that if you are off premises for 10 minutes or less than the fee is $40 and $90 if you are gone for over 30 minutes.
Parking in the neighborhood off Ponce Place is also a problem. I think there needs to be more private enforcement, even in the neighborhoods. Let the police deal with crime.
So how is that going to work? The streets belong to the city. You are suggesting the city contracts with a booter like Park Atlanta? Ask Atlanta how that’s working out.
Who do you think is managing the parking meters on Decatur streets? It’s Parkmobile. Decatur gets a private company to handle its parking just like Atlanta does. Parkmobile also works with private property owners like Ponce City Market.
Parkmobile provides the technology. The actual enforcement is done by COD employees, who are not private contractors, unlike Atlanta.
Actually the City of Decatur manages on-street parking in the City of Decatur and all of our parking attendants are city employees. Parkmobile is a vendor that allows you to use an phone app to pay for parking through an on-line account. Saves you from having to remember your tag number or even having to go to a pay station.
Also keeps you out of the weather while you pay. No one seems to mention that, but I think it is the best feature.
“That is not a police matter.” That’s right, but a person whose car has been booted doesn’t think so and will call. The officer must respond to explain that it is a private matter.
” Isn’t parking in the DeKalb Courthouse free anyway?” Only after 6.
Maybe when someone calls 9-1-1, and the operator asks “what’s your emergency” the police operator can just say “that is a private matter.” The police don’t show up at every towed or booted car in every parking lot.
They shouldn’t have to.
It’s not the 911 dispatcher’s decision to make. They are not on the scene and may not have all the facts.
The operators exercise discretion. Of course they can say that they won’t send an officer out if someone is upset because their car got booted.
It could be more than that. Maybe the booter spoke or acted to them in a manner they deemed a threat. Like I said, not being on scene they cannot and should not make a judgement. Perhaps you should attend the Citizen’s Police Academy.
It’s also possible for there to be a legitimate dispute over whether a vehicle is parked in a space from which it may be booted. In the “CVS” lot for example: I don’t know whether the parking company will actually boot from each and every spot in the lot, but there are certainly sections that do not meet the 1 sign per 30 feet requirement as defined in the existing ordinance. The area directly behind Green Ginger/DaVinci’s, the parallel strip to the side of DaVinci’s, and I believe the entire row facing Pasties A Go Go/Supercuts/Jasmin are all without any signage.
It’s a crime to effectively steal your car by immobilizing your vehicle and keep it on your property (or tow it) unless you pay their extortionist, usurious, immoral rates. Also – there are specific conditions that have to be in place for you to pay these outlandish rates. $90 was an abomination – $40 is still an outrage!
PSA (personal suggested advice…): If they are not on premises, and don’t answer the phone, and all of the required multiple signs aren’t well lit and clearly marked with specific language, and if they tell you that you have to pay in cash, then yes – call the police. Have them assess the conditions such that these scum sucking bottom feeders can’t steal your car or your money.
I haven’t read it , but I sure hope this ordinance includes a requirement that you have to at least have the option to pay ahead of time, either an attendant or at a booth. If you are not a pay to park lot, then there is no booting!
– guy who got stung and thinks about this issue a little too much…
If they put up a pay gate people would gripe about that even more than they are griping about the booting policy and the stores would lose even more business as folks drive up the road to Suburban Plaza.
I actually think that a pay gate would be more fair in that it would be obvious what you were getting into. Unfortunately, it would not necessarily help the CVS center businesses because folks could pay and then shop elsewhere. But the parking company would get its money and would not have to boot.
A more important thing to keep in mind is the burden that unauthorized vehicles place on the businesses in Commerce Plaza who pay pretty steep rents in order to conduct business there.
This should not be a government issue, plain and simple. If you’re waiting to have a prescription filled, go to Pastries, go to DaVinci’s, go to Green Ginger, get a haircut or a mani/pedi, or sit on one of the chairs in CVS and read a newspaper. If you have errands to run elsewhere, take your vehicle out of the lot so that somebody who is patronizing one of the stores has a place to park.
Crybabies.
Many of the people who run afoul of the boot are not from Decatur, and are often from places where parking is always completely free. If downtown is going to succeed (and I think we all want it to), visitors need to perceive it as a friendly place to come. I have never been booted personally, but from observing how some of these companies act (i.e., completely unprofessionally), it’s no wonder that people get incredibly upset about it.
Please call out a few places in urban Atlanta where parking completely is free. And, the parking on the subject lots is free if you are patronizing the establishment(s).
Just in downtown Decatur – Kroger? Outside of downtown Decatur – almost every place on Ponce headed towards Ponce City Market. As previously stated, I don’t have an issue with booting, I have an issue with booting as currently conducted. I never thought that requiring the booting company to adhere to some sort of minimum standards (for example, having uniforms) would be remotely controversial.
It’s not about thinking it’s free, it’s about thinking it’s ok to park in a parking lot where businesses are located and go elsewhere. I don’t think you have to be from here to realize that CVS does not want you parking at their lot to go to T. Mac.
should the booting company be allowed to charge you whatever price they want before releasing your property? do you think it should be legal to confiscate someone else’s property permanently if they trespass on your property?
you might disagree with the level of government involvement in this case, but i for one am glad that there are laws governing when and how another private citizen can take control of my property and demand a ransom to return it to me.
The computer malware folks would like to talk to you.
This is the same government that will fine you well over $100 for a minor speeding infraction and eventually have you arrested if you don’t pay.
it’s also the government i call when somebody commits a crime. they’re not perfect, but not useless either.
I didn’t say useless. But just because it does some useful things doesn’t mean it’s competent to protect us in every instance, or that its motives can be assumed to be pure. In many instances, government preys on citizens to an equal or greater degree than does private enterprise.
i didn’t say you said useless and i didn’t say it was able to help us in every situation, that its motives were pure, or that it’s never preyed on people.
Hang on. Let me get my popcorn.
nobody said you were allowed to get popcorn.
Or when someone’s had a stroke or I smell something burning in my home.
Nothing involving human beings is perfect but I think we’re stuck with government. The free market alone doesn’t seem to be enough to make people play nice. Just read The Big Short and it’s amazing how short-sighted, dull, and myopic human beings can be, even those earning millions a year who you would think would have the wisdom or self-interest to protect themselves.
There are at least ten signs posted on the property that state the policy and the cost.
I think this is wonderful news. The parking companies have a business model that basically boils down to: Boot Early, Boot Often. The problem is that there’s absolutely no room for discretion or gray area. I speak from experience, having had my car booted when I left the CVS parking lot for 5 min to walk my dog while waiting for a prescription. I’m hopeful this ordinance will have a moderating effect on parking companies, while also looking out for the business owners’ interests – that is, ensuring parking spaces remain available for legit patrons.
Did they unboot you for free? If you were waiting for a prescription, you were still doing business at CVS. You could probably take that to court but that’s a lot of time and effort.
I have spoken to businesses in the CVS center and, while they do not like the booting policy, they do not control the parking lot. I understand that a private parking/booting business has rights but they also have benefits being in Decatur or any populated area vs. being on a remote island where there is no government, no rules, no regulation, no need to play nice. I think it is reasonable to have some regulatory boundaries within which booting companies have to operate. One would be better signage–the signage in the CVS lot looks like cute welcoming signs and the warnings are buried in the verbiage. There should be huge, plain, can’t-miss signs at each lot entrance. Another would be some definition of what doing business means. Some regulatory boundaries would help both the businesses in the CVS center and the public. Right now, I avoid shopping there because I hate having to wave at the booters (if I can find them since they do not wear identifying uniforms–another place for reasonable regulation) to let them know that I am just going around the corner to where Delta Community’s ATM happens to be located even though it is a CVS center business or that I’m going into Green Ginger’s door where the line of vision is blocked by a big truck.
To be fair, there is one positive effect of the booting atmosphere in the CVS lot. I am no longer accosted by panhandlers and scam artists. But the booting folks are kind of scarey too. Not sure there’s a net benefit.
“To be fair, there is one positive effect of the booting atmosphere in the CVS lot. I am no longer accosted by panhandlers and scam artists.”
Who do you think they hired to put on the boots?
Looks like the parking company got the commission to rethink this ordinance…I love their argument:
Our booting practice must continue because improperly parked cars are overwhelming the lots…
But we can’t make any money if a cap of $40 is put in place.
The maximum fee in City of Atlanta is $75 — I’ll be a little surprised if it isn’t lowered at least to that.
I am also curious about the claim one cannot make money at $40 per boot.
I like the way they do it in little 5 points – there is a guy who monitors the parking lot at the entrance, and if you are going to one of the businesses it is free, otherwise you can pay 5 bucks to park. Its a low tech solution to the problem.
Homer v. New York
[vimeo 107663336 w=500 h=313]
Homer v. New York (car boot scene) from Virgil Cain on Vimeo.
I eat at Pastries weekly and I see people get booted every time I’m there. Last week the cops arrested the boot co. Operator and the owner of the car for fighting. Then they let the boot operator go 🙁
I was pulling for the car owner! If they ever mistakenly boot my truck, I’ll take the sledge hammer out of the back and simply beat it off of there and then I’ll throw it to the lot jockey. I think they’re too agressive and I can’t stand them.
Fighting and people trying to remove boots are a couple of the reasons why the police respond to “booting calls”.
If the booting is starting to incite fights, I have even more doubts as to its merits. I never saw the former scam artists who used to hang out there start any fights. I did lose a little money to some so-called high school students collecting for a so-called field trip but I really was insanely gullible.
When I lived in Decatur, I could see a portion of that lot from our balcony, and I can’t tell you how many times I saw people park and walk somewhere else. That lot has long been way overused by non-customers of the businesses there. The booting may be too aggressive, but the sense of entitlement among drivers ( I have a car, therefore I should be able to park it somewhere that’s free and convenient) hardly inspires sympathy.
This is how they solve the problem in the UK
Superhero Rescues Illegally Parked Cars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGQMq3hNv-g
I have stopped frequenting the businesses in that shopping center since the booting started. In never parked in that lot if I wasn’t going to one of the stores or restaurants there but I used to make short trips off site in addition and now it’s just too much bother.
The parking deck behind the library is often used by people who are not using the library or rec center and that really is irritating when I am circling 20 minutes for a space.
You should put the Library in touch with the booting company, then.
Do you park at the Library, drop off your books, and then go over to Victory Sandwich or Java Monkey? Funny how you condone the same behavior in the CVS lot that ticks you off at the Library.
Actually I have seen city employees monitoring the library/Rec lot. He made people leave if they were going somewhere else. Speaking of which, should the City charge for that lot after hours like the churches do? Would be a nice little money maker.
There are many night time activities at the rec center and the library.
True. But there are also many hours of the week when both are closed and those hours happen to coincide with prime parking demand.
I don’t condone people parking at CVS when they are not going to any business or restaurants in that center–I don’t know how you got that from my post. I just said I used to park there and go to a business in that lot and sometimes would go for a quick trip off site in addition but now I don’t even frequent those businesses anymore.
No, I only use the library parking lot for library and rec center parking and never go anyplace else. I don’t think most of the people I have seen abusing the library lot are using the library or rec center and then going somewhere else for a quick stop–I see them come back with shopping bags and the remnants of meals!
I don’t think the library should boot because I don’t think anyplace should boot–I just want people who park in that lot to go elsewhere to realize that they are taking the parking spots of library and rec center patrons who sometimes cannot get spaces because the lot is full. I do think it’s particularly important not to abuse the library lot because people coming and going from the library frequently are carrying arm loads of heavy books.
I probably did not go to the CVS lot at peak times, but In the past I never had a problem getting a space there.
I have never not been able to get a spot either, not even before the booting. I suspect the booting is more about making money than preserving spaces for customers. The biggest problem I’ve ever had over the many years, besides being gullible and scammed, is that the layout is prone to people backing into each other as they exit their spot, especially right by the CVS. I was once hit by a teen who then never followed up. I’m still kind of mad but I just didn’t have chutzpah to call her family.
“In (sic) never parked in that lot if I wasn’t going to one of the stores or restaurants there but I used to make short trips off site in addition and now it’s just too much bother.”
Perhaps you don’t condone the behavior in others, but you said that you did it yourself in the past.
i think the distinction here is between parking there to do business at onsite places and offsite ones vs parking there to only do business at offsite places.
What’s the difference? Either way you are using a parking space while you are not on the premises and making it harder for the business owner to serve customers.
the difference is that scenario a provides income to the businesses while scenario b does not. i’m sure most business owners would rather you do business with them and not mind if you opted to not move your car between giving them money and giving someone else money than have you not doing business with them at all. if you ignore the part where they benefit, than yes, both scenarios are the same. scenario b i would think everybody considers wrong. i’m not saying scenario a should be allowed; just that i think most businesses would be down with it as it’s mutually beneficial. as the booting stands now, i’ll go with scenario c where i don’t shop there. i generally go into town for more than one errand and i don’t feel like having to move my car three times to shop at different places if i don’t have to. in a way, the current system makes it impossible for the business owners to serve me.
There are many public parking options downtown, from the meters on the streets to the County deck to the deck behind Parker’s to the lot next to Victory. You of course, pick the one that is free. Why do you somehow feel entitled to park at the Commerce Plaza parking lot while you are patronizing an off premises business, especially when there are perhaps a dozen signs explicitly stating that what you are doing is not permitted and will cost you 95 bucks if you’re caught?
I still maintain the signs aren’t so explicit. They are tasteful and start with something like “Welcome…” I would never have bothered to read them at all except I saw all the brouhaha on this blog. I think the City could require something more blatant and giant, posted at each entrance, rather than scattered around the parking lot. There is not one at each space. You have to wonder whether their intent is more legal cover for booting than to warn parkers.
I agree. They have a form and font more reminiscent of a historical marker. But I read those anyway 🙂
AHID, gotta give it to you– you’re bound and determined to “own” the style of signs/fonts/wording thing. Kinda weird that you’ve shifted from thinking there’s plenty of parking spaces signs and that the entrance signs clearly state the policy (although you even wanted to revise those).
…and why is it that I’m feeling 100% sure that if all the parking space signs were bold and blunt that folks would then be in a tizzy over the signs being “unfriendly” and “not how we do things in Decatur”…
Gotta side with Deanne here. If the choice comes down to people paying a little extra attention before assuming they can do whatever they wish vs. increased visual blight throughout downtown, I gotta go with the former.
Most people don’t have No Smoking signs in their house but if you’re a smoker and you go in and don’t smell smoke and don’t see ashtrays, you adjust your behavior based on the clues. The CVS lot has more than enough clues. If people want to willfully ignore them, that’s on them.
Totally agree that folks would be unhappy about big, ugly, glaring, obvious signs. But booting isn’t real classy either. If we’re going to have booting, I think we need to err on the side of making the risk so plain and obvious that no one misses it.
i don’t feel entitled to park there while shopping somewhere else and therefore i don’t. i do use the many other options, both free and paying. what i don’t like is the effective ‘please come shop here and park for free, but as soon as you’re done get the hell out; we don’t want you staying here a minute longer’ attitude. they’re entitled to have that attitude and i’m entitled to take my business elsewhere.
have you ever checked out of a hotel in the morning but stayed in town for part of that day? many times i’ve asked the hotel if i could leave my car there after checkout and every time they’ve agreed. i was no longer doing business with them and there were many other parking options, but they allowed me to take up one of their spots (a spot that could have been used by a currently paying customer). call it customer service, going the extra mile, or whatever; it’s something i appreciate. the opposite attitude is not so i don’t patronize those places.
Something mentioned at the commission meeting was surprising, at least to me, given the assertion/assumption that’s been mentioned here many times (probably by me as well). According to the booting company that reps Commerce Square, BOA, etc., all of their staff are on payroll and have no commission structure or other incentives associated with the number of boots deployed. That money grubbing demon patrolling the lot is apparently just an hourly shmoe trying to do his job. D’oh! Who to hate now?
The messenger!!!
Wow. So they don’t have a financial incentive to be jerks? So instead of hiding, watching people cross the street and then sneaking over to boot them… they could actually be nice and ask them to move their car? Thus freeing up a space instead of anchoring a car to the space?
That makes me hate them more.
The guard that used to patrol the lot was nice and always told people going to Ted’s/TMac that they couldn’t park there and they would move.
The property owners had to pay for the guard service. They don’t have to pay for the booting service. And the booting service is probably more effective at deterrence.
I thought it’s been suggested that many booters require to be paid in cash. If so, how does an hourly guy legitimately report how many boots he did in a night?
Seems like the perfect scenario for skimming and a cash requirement allows that possibility.
I believe COD requires that they accept plastic as well as cash.
That doesn’t really answer the question. How does that prevent a booter removal worker from pocketing cash received from removing a boot?
Some comments are about predatory booting. If the attendant thinks he can snag four people a night who might pay by cash, but only report two of them to the home office, that seems like a potential incentive to me.
By the way, I have no position on the overall discussion. I’m just not convinced the attendant is only making the hourly wage.
I used to manage a clothing store near Piedmont Park. Park events ruined our business and the landlord would not let us tow or boot. The owner moved the store to L5P because of the issue. I also used to manage Everybody’s at Emory. We booted freely and happily. People freeloading on private parking hurts small businesses. Period.
What means of enforcement does COD have to enforce its current and any new rules regarding booting companies?
For instance currently “An attendant shall remain on-site at the parking facility, lot or area at all times when mechanical locking devices are in use and affixed to a vehicle.”
If a patron(scofflaw) gets the boot and an attendant is not in the lot when (s)he returns to their car what should (s)he do? Technically the booting company is not complying with code and therefore is booting illegally, however how does one go about getting this enforced?
You may notice that the posted signs all list the Decatur Police Department’s non-emergency phone number (as they are required to do). Seems like they are the intended arbiters for such disputes.