OK, so there are a lot of moving pieces in the ongoing annexation saga, especially in the neighborhoods to Decatur’s north. We’re pregnant with updates, so here are many of them all in one place.
Medlock
The Medlock Area Neighborhood Association just released the first results of an ongoing survey that shows residents who took the survey most preferred to be added to the city of Decatur (66%) vs. being added to the city of Briarcliff (60%) or the City of Atlanta (~45%).
At a recent meeting with Former Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver and State Senate candidate Elena Parent, the message sent to regarding Decatur’s disinterest in annexing Medlock was “it ain’t over”, do not accept defeat today.” They continued…
City of Decatur is likely to get commercial areas but there is an unspoken rule that commercial annexations should also include residents
We would need Representative Rahn Mayo to write legislation to propose that our neighborhood be annexed to City of Decatur. Even if the legislation is approved and a referendum is mandated, the Decatur Commission could still say no.
Druid Hills
Over to the west in Druid Hills, the main annexation effort continues to focus on Atlanta. The Civic Association recently released a map, using the current Briar Vista and Fernbank Elementary School boundaries as the first proposed boundaries of a Druid Hills annexation into Atlanta. See map below (courtesy of Druid Hill Civic Assoication website).
The Civic Association has also provided a tax analysis of the potential changes if incorporated into Atlanta. In regards to Emory, the site says they continue to monitor the situation and hope the process remains open so they can evaluate their options.
Clairemont Heights
Between Medlock and Druid Hills sits Clairemont Heights, which has been relatively silent on annexation preference up until now. However, this past week the Clairmont Heights Civic Association blog noted that some residents of the neighborhood had recently filed a petition with the city of Decatur requesting annexation. The petition claims the support of “at least 68% of homes” in Clairmont Heights, though some discussion on the Association’s Facebook page about how widely the petition was circulated.
At the same time, Clairmont Heights current President noted recently that Druid Hills’ latest annexation map (above) incorporated some of Clairmont Heights in their annexation plan.
Of note, if Clairmont were to incorporate into Decatur, it would eliminate an Atlanta annexation from Medlock’s array of choices, since it would have no way of being congruent to the Atlanta city limit.
I shan’t give up my dream of Decaturdale.
I’m concerned that Decatur is not immediately annexing the commercial area of Rio Cir.. and the farmers market on E. Ponce. It would be an enormous mistake for a place like Avondale Est. to annex this area ,and creatted another speed trap that would be just beyond Decatur City limits that Decatur citizens would be confronted with..
Including illegal arrestts, harrassment, illegally stiopping people in Decatur that had not been in AE.
I know from personal observation in the past and personal expe rience Avondale Esttates should not be allowed to to annexany any property on E. Ponce
I know DectaurMetro wants to crown the heir apparent, but Elena Parent is NOT a state senator yet. We still require elections in Georgia don’t we? Point No. 2: Parent and Hillary Clinton, I mean, Mary Margaret, seem determined to keep awarding neighborhoods to all the existing cities like Atlanta and Decatur — even though those city governments have not lifted a finger to annex these residential areas. WTF is going on there? Doesn’t Mary Margaret Oliver represent neighborhoods other than Druid Hills? Why cheerlead Medlock away from Briarcliff/ Lakeside?? Why do I sense the invisible hand of Emory U. in all this?
Yes, I’m crowning heirs. It’s not because I can’t stop making that dumb mistake. No one think that!
Would you crown me Princess Matilda Buttercup St. Claire? I so would love that.
Avondale Estates has got to be SALIVATING at the idea of being able to put speed traps between the Tudor Village and YDFM.
I know I’m not great at math, but the structure of the Medlock survey must have allowed people to have more than one preference which means they don’t really understand the meaning of the word. Otherwise, how do you have three things to choose from and get 66%; 60%; and 45% as answers?
Oh, I see. Each of those choices was vs remaining unincorporated.
I saw the survey, it was a ranking system.
It is far superior way to vote for things vs. what we will all be doing next Tuesday.
You simply number all available choices by preference. Decatur was the most popular top choice, followed by Briarcliff, then Atlanta. This allows you to vote for unlikely choices without “wasting” your vote.
This video explains how it works. If this were to replace our current voting system in America, the people would really be in charge of things, because people could show their preference for an outside candidate without losing the privilege of choosing a Republican over a Democrat or vice-versa.
We need to build up our downtown area instead of annexing out. The amount of a walkable downtown is actually quite small. We’re really talking about ponce de leon and a block or two of church street. The city should look to expanding storefront along commerce, trinity, mcdonough and north candler, along with a few more blocks of church. Every city in metro atlanta has
tried the “expansion” route to increase revenue. after 20 years, much of that space goes
south and then becomes a burden to the city to take care of. Let’s look at some LONG term planning. In 20 years after walmart has moved on (as they do everywhere!) we’d be stuck
with another decaying shopping center.
But you are going to have to annex Walmart to get down to Patel Plaza right, presuming they get to it from Church? And I doubt Patel Plaza is going anywhere. They are actually really investing in that area. They just put up a brand new 2 story building on the lot (not that I believe Suburban is going anywhere either.)
“The city should look to expanding storefront along commerce, trinity, mcdonough and north candler, along with a few more blocks of church. ”
If there were sufficient demand for increased storefront there, the market would have already taken care of this. It seems to be that the turnover rate of businesses in downtown CoD has gone up in the last couple of years, and the last thing we need is more vacant space downtown. This isn’t a “If you build it, they will come” scenario.
This. All the blocks referenced by Tom are already entitled for mixed-use development with street level retail by-right, and some have already undergone streetscape enhancements. Others have plans pending. If there were sufficient demand, it would be happening.
(There are signs that we’re headed in that direction, though. The recent talk of the burger joint on McDonough, for example, or the much discussed white building across from the high school. Calloway and the Trinity Triangle will also serve to activate Trinity considerably. But I agree. What the city can do is set zoning and build infrastructure. From there, it’s up to the market and its demand for what we have to offer.)
Entitled, but city has made no investments in streetscapes, open space. Where is Decatur CID? How about using those parking revenues to improve the streetscapes?
“city has made no investments in streetscapes”
You must be sight impaired and not reading the news. There are streetscape projects in various stages a) Church St from Trinity to Howard, b) Trinity from McDonough to the railroad, partially funded by the Trinity Triangle developers, c) N McDonough from Trinity to Howard and d) Oakhurtt Village, besides all the work done over the years on Ponce and the 300/400 block of church.
CIDs are often a business-initiated tool to augment inefficient or ineffective government, which I’d suggest would be unnecessary here. Typical minor differences aside, for the most part, the Decatur business community and the city of Decatur seem to have fairly consistent visions for how downtown should build out over time, and the city is supportive of business interests that want to contribute to that vision.
That’s not saying the city, as suggested, can’t absorb A LOT more development downtown. I agree that it can. And will. I just think the problem is not us failing to be out in front of it. The problem is others who’ve yet to catch up.
I agree Decatur has many opportunities to grow and improve its downtown, but it must stop one story development like Grindhouse Burgers. The Beacon Hill redevelopment was a major missed opportunity to add to the tax base. And certainly Church, Commerce and Trinity offer huge opportunities.
Go back 30 years and look at what Decatur was like. NOTHING like it is today. Everybody expects things to happen overnight. It doesn’t work that way. Decatur’s leadership has been patient and as a result the progress has been steady and sustainable. Give us the next 30 years like the last 30 and we will have a great little city. (By the way – I don’t support large-scale annexation.)
The annexation process just blows my mind.
City accepts pleas for annexation, but requires a vote is taken within these groups to show clear favor for joining Club Decatur. (this isnt the confusing part).
The confusing part is that the current Club Decatur members don’t get to vote if we want them to join. Based on the shenanigans of earlier annexation activities from the city commission, I think any/all annexations should be voted on by city residents.
According to the city’s process timeline, the coming commission vote is a yay/nay on whether or not to proceed. If yes, the effort goes to the Statehouse. If it receives the support of the Legislature and the Governor, it will then result in a referendum next fall.
I’m assuming that referendum is for citizens of Decatur, right? If that’s the case, how are we not getting a vote?
Is that really correct? Decatur citizens would get a vote? I haven’t heard that before. I would have thought the referendum was for the residents who are asking to join the city (I have no idea how that process works, clearly).
It’s just confusing, and it’s like no one knows all the details (or if someone does, that person ain’t talking!). There are neighborhood petitions asking to be annexed. There is the city commission vote. Then there is the legislature – and we hear about two things (but who knows how related they are): legislators having to submit bills, and the legislature having to approve annexations.
Does anyone know how it really works??
It is confusing, but if you spend enough time sorting through the available resources it starts to become more clear.
Current residents of Decatur do not get a direct vote. Their vote is reflected in their election of City Commissioners and DeKalb legislative delegation members. The law requires that property owners of the proposed annexed area do get a vote.
Looked deeper into it and, yes, looks like this is the case when they say “referendum.” It’s just affected property owners who vote. Wish they’d use a different word that didn’t seem to imply the whole of the community.
Just a clarification about who gets to vote. Registered voters in the proposed area ,not property owners. As one of the many commercial property owners being targeted for ‘revenue’ , and a 38% increase in taxes, I have no vote or representation!
STEVE – thank you – that’s what I thought – city commission speaks for the city residents – so the referendum concept threw me. (Somewhat related, a number of people feel that the city is not listening to current residents’ concerns about annexation. We have yet to hear the rationale behind annexing more and more residential, but that’s exactly what has happened within the past year. And so many (purely) residential neighborhoods are currently asking to be annexed. Many of us feel in the dark – and not well represented, so I guess we just need to make more “noise.”)
SCOTT – yes, maybe there is a better word. Or maybe use of “referendum” needs to be better qualified.
POPLAR – can you recommend a website with all of the info needed to understand the big picture? I actually do a good bit of reading/following issues, but I find pieces of information here and other pieces of information there (nothing comprehensive with regard to annexation, in other words). Many people have correct info for some annexation issues and incorrect info for others – but of course they think it is all correct and share the info on blogs. Then of course, people get even more confused.
+1
I will vote against any Decatur City Commissioners who annex residential areas.
Maybe you could run against them? Decatur has a long history of mostly uncontested elections, so your “no” vote would have to be a non vote.
What are the requirements for running? I’m actually semi-serious here. One year residence in the city? Throw down some cash or have a petition signed?
Pretty simple. Live in the district you’re running for and pay the qualifying fee.
I just looked on the city’s website about qualifications for running for the city commission, but I couldn’t find anything. It’s definitely worth asking Peggy Merriss! Then the info could be shared as a story on this site.
Steve lays it out in the comment just above yours. Be a district resident. Pay the filing fee prior to the deadline, which is typically announced prior to races in which seats are coming up.
800 kids graduating with my son in kindergarten! 3200 kids at the high school. I was hoping we top out at 400+. That is not going to happen.
We need to start running the adds saying the school is EXPLODING and chaos is imminent. I too will campaign against commissioners to pursue residential annexation.
But you do understand that, for the most part, neighborhoods are petitioning to join Decatur in response to Decatur’s land grab of commercial property near them, right? Unincorporated areas are going to be (even more) screwed over if all the tax income is grabbed by wealthy new or existing cities. Medlock and Clairmont Heights are scrambling to figure out where to go if everything surrounding them is suddenly part of Atlanta, Decatur, or Briarcliff/Lakeside. In particular, it is not clear what will happen with our schools. When Decatur annexes commercial property, residents of Medlock (who are affected by that annexation) get no say, either.
I’ve heard that if a city with an existing school system annexes an area with a school that they can take over that school. Specifically that Atlanta wants to annex Druid Hills so that they can absorb Fernbank and Druid Hills High School into APS. Does anyone know if this is true? Would it make sense for Decatur to take over a school by annexation?
I don’t think it’s as simple as carte blanche to “take over that school” but I do think it’s common, through the appropriate negotiations with whatever entity “owns the asset,” for it to happen. It’s just not guaranteed, I don’t think. If the process got frosty, DeKalb Schools could presumably choose to be difficult.
Hey S and SCOTT,
This explains how the “school thing” works with regard to annexation:
http://druidhills.org/2014/10/15/cityhood-annexation-options-and-their-effects-on-taxes-and-schools/
Wow. That’s surprising. Thanks for the info.
Scott, it totally surprised me, too!
interesting – thanks
Sooooooooo…. if Decatur annexed Medlock Park, would they also get the ICS that’s operating in Medlock Park Elementary? And if so, could they just kick out the ICS and reopen Medlock Park Elementary to serve Medlock Park?
That sounds right, per the info on the Druid Hills site about what annexation means for the schools – but ICS is a charter school within the DeKalb system, not just a regular school serving the surrounding area. So in the scenario you propose, I am *guessing* that ICS would relocate to another building within unincorporated DeKalb (if there’s any unincorporated area left!), and the physical building would become part of the Decatur’s school system. I’d bet the name would be changed to help avoid confusion – so, for example, Medlock Elementary was part of the DeKalb school system, but “North Decatur Elementary School” (I just made that up) is part of CSD.
ICS might have trouble relocating. It took incredible effort for them to get DeKalb County Schools to let them use Medlock. DCCS isn’t likely to bend over backwards to find them another spot.
I think it would be terrible for ICS if it had to move out, but if Decatur were to annex Medlock (which I don’t think it will), the building would become part of CSD. Decatur wouldn’t let ICS stay there bc the only real reason to annex Medlock is for the school building.
It would definitely be a blow to ICS. The state law around schools and annexation is definitely odd.
OMG ANNEXATION! SCHOOLS! TAXES! RESIDENTIAL! COMMERCIAL! WHERE’S OUR MOAT?!?
Amirite?
I believe Briarcliff/Lakeside have until November 15 to agree on boundaries or the state will decide. I think the state has until Dec 2 to draw the boundaries if they can’t decide by that date. Lakeside and Tucker have agreed on their boundaries. We are getting really close to that date. I believe that will answer a lot of questions. If the state decides the boundaries I believe it will be voted down. Brookhaven referendum won by a very narrow margin unlike Dunwoody or The N. Fulton cities. CoD it using Lakeside/Briarcliff as the excuse that it needs to move forward now.
What happens if LakeBriar doesn’t happen? There are a lot of moving parts and It will be interesting within the next 45 days or so.
So many misconceptions about all of this! So many misstatements!
Briarcliff always wanted the residential areas of Clairmont Heights and Medlock, and has argued strongly that the commercial areas should go with the residential in order to support them.
This applies to the newest land grab of Brookhaven for the Executive Park/CHOA annexation, which would extract the commercial center from the residential districts, leaving the outlying areas to deal with the impact of heavy redevelopment in Brookhaven, with no tax base or zoning control.
Lakeside and Briarcliff have reached an agreement with each other and are still negotiating with Tucker.
If a city with a school system annexes an area then those residents’ children go to the new city’s schools. The city does not acquire the school facilities. That would have to be worked out as a purchase.
Only residents get to vote for incorporation into a new city, or into an annexed area. Commercial property owners can request to be annexed into a city, and if the city approves, no vote is necessary. A city can structure an annexation proposal to include some areas of straight commercial and some of pure residential, and if the residents pass the annexation bill, then the commercial is included.
All of these incorporation and annexation proposals, unless they are by the 100% method, will require referenda.
The Georgia Municipal Association has a pdf file that explains these processes, although there are so many moving parts that keep arising there are new questions every week.
http://www.gmanet.com/Assets/PDF/Publications/annexation.pdf
If Druid Hills Annexes to City of Atlanta, the schools within the annexed areas absolutely go to APS. APS does not need to purchase these schools from the county. The legal rationale is that the taxpayers whose taxes fund those schools have been annexed as well. There is strong legal precedent for this. Decatur could also annex Druid Hills if it wanted to, and in that case Fernbank and Druid Hills High would go to City of Decatur.
@tracy Thanks for the update. With the compromised boundaries what are the odds it will pass. haven’t seen any studies/polls on how this would vote out.
Anyone else think that if Lakeside/Briarcliff/Druid Hills/Tucker/MANA/Clairmont Heights, etc. would spend half the time and resources on fixing DeKalb Co., electing competent, non-corrupt officials, demanding improved services, etc., a lot of this would be moot? Methinks we have a lot of wannabe mayors and city councilpersons trying to create their own little kingdom.
OK, DawgFan–hold onto something steady. I agree with you 100% on this!
“Decatur Metro: Bringin’ Folk Togetha” should be a T-shirt. 😀
Isn’t Decatur the county seat?
I am not sure how that is relevant unless you misunderstand the significance, or lack thereof, of that designation. Being the county seat means only that the county courthouse is located there.
Ever think that if the City of Decatur spent some time sorting out its commercial real estate issues rather than annexing someone else’s, we could avoid this conversation?
Didn’t think so. Because it’s not that simple. For either of us.
I’m not a cityhood fan, but I’m stuck in this situation. I’ve tried to do my part to address DeKalb’s issues and I know plenty of people who have spent way more time on it than I have.
I would like to think that it’s a vocal minority that is giving me a terrible impression of the city of Decatur’s attitudes toward their neighbors, but the louder and more unpleasant this conversation gets, the harder it is to believe that.
+1 for the spot-on comment
+1 for coming up with the apt pseudo-name
Speaking as someone who moved from 30033 into Decatur Proper in the last couple years – the school thing is really freaking people out. Even if Decatur doesn’t annex a single solitary neighborhood ever again, the school system is already on track to be horrifically overcrowded in ten years. Annexing new residential is going to exacerbate that problem. It’s awesome that everyone wants to be in Decatur, but the scope of annexation being discussed is going to warrant at LEAST another elementary school and probably a second middle school as well – and there’s basically nowhere to put those things anymore.
I mean, technically we are part of the problem – we bought our place from an older woman who was living by herself, and dropped our kid into the system. (but at least we didn’t buy a ginormous teardown, he said…)
Likely another high school as well.
Despicable 30033 – you write, “I would like to think that it’s a vocal minority that is giving me a terrible impression of the city of Decatur’s attitudes toward their neighbors, but the louder and more unpleasant this conversation gets, the harder it is to believe that.”
LaResistance is right. It’s not a personal attack against you or any of the other neighboring areas. Decatur does not have a bad attitude towards its neighbors; Decatur residents are concerned about making the school overcrowding problem worse by annexing those neighborhoods into Decatur. We like you a lot, but our city does not have room for more residential properties given the current school situation. If people don’t live in the city of Decatur and would like to send their children to CSD schools (or for any other reasons they desire annexation), they are more than welcome to move to the city, within the existing city limits. No one is stopping them. We’d welcome you with open arms.
Despicable: so let me get this straight you believe folks are being uncivil because they made a conscious decision to pay higher taxes for the school system and want to ensure it stays that way. Those outside trying to get annexed knowingly moved into areas outside and now want to bogard there way in there and overwhelming that school district. Scratching my head on that one. Only problem I have with Decatur is the folks on the City Commission.
Despicable – it’s not personal so don’t take it that way. School overcrowding is a huge challenge for Decatur and our city commission seems hell-bent on making the problem a lot worse.
I think everyone can more or less agree that no one deserves to be in the city, who didn’t buy in the city. But does Decatur actually deserve commercial that wasn’t built in the city? 🙂
+1 to Daydreamer
I’ve been reading annexation posts and all the comments. I certainly understand the dilemma CoD is in with its schools. However, the adjacent unincorporated areas are also in a dilemma – The schools that serve the areas – Fernbank, Laurel Ridge, Druid Hills Middle, and Druid Hills HS – are all very crowded, and there is no option to expand.
(Before anyone jumps in to say act that Fernbank is being rebuilt, it was 180 over capacity before, and its new capacity will be taken up when it opens. Remember that Medlock no longer exists, so the 350 – 400 children that were there were moved to other schools that really did not have the capacity, primarily Laurel Ridge.)
If the commercial areas surrounding these neighborhoods are annexed by CoD, the county has that much less of a tax base, so if they remain in unincorporated DeKalb, there is little to no possibility their school overcrowding will be resolved. If they join the new city of Briar Patch, that city will have much less commercial property for their tax base. That leaves City of Atlanta, which is neither a sure thing nor an attractive alternative to many in these neighborhoods. NONE of the residents of these neighborhoods want to leave their very good neighborhood schools, nor should they be asked to.That would be like suggesting that CoD move their excess students into schools in surrounding areas of unincorporated DeKalb County to solve their crowding problems.
We are ALL being squeezed by the balkanization of DeKalb County. The best solution is to reduce the need to get out by reforming DeKalb County government and the administration of DeKalb County Schools. Are all you CoD residents willing to help?