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April 24, 2015 Free-For-All Friday 4/24/15 (137)
April 17, 2015 Free-For-All Friday 4/17/15 (79)
June 6, 2014 Free-For-All Friday 6/6/14 (159)
Decatur Metro
Steve
cheryl burnette
decaturight
SR
Scott
Just for Thought
Chris Billingsley
Robert Butera
J_T
Rick Julian
Steve
Decatur's Pub Shed
Arizona: It’s a dry hate.
😀
How long you been saving that one?
I know you are just having fun with words, but this “hate” stuff is getting old. I am not a Christian. I think anyone should be able to get married to anyone they choose. But to say Christians who truly believe that lifestyle goes against their religion are filled with hate is quite ridiculous (and close minded).
Also, why would anyone WANT to use someone for a service that is so adamantly against their lifestyle?
I know, just like sweet old Bull Connor, he had no hate in him either. So misunderstood.
Well that was a rational thought. Well done. Clearly there are some people filled with “hate”, but I don’t think that is the majority.
Bless your heart, Walrus.
Something tells me you have “hate” for right wing Christians. But I guess that’s ok, right? My guess is that a sizable chunk of Decatur would vote for a bill that banned these hate filled folks from living in Decatur. I guess that kind of hate and discrimination is ok, huh?
You’re more than entitled to live anywhere you want, although I don’t know why someone with those sensibilities would choose Decatur when they could live, oh, ANYWHERE else. The problem comes in when your religious beliefs create laws that deny benefits and discriminate against others. You have every right to your opinion and to say whatever you want but when you say something that hurts another person, then that person has the right to tell you how wrong you are. And, it’s not a “lifestyle” either. It’s a person’s life. Not a choice like painting one’s house purple or going out to get hammered every night. Those are lifestyle choices.
Don’t disagree with you at all. Except that I also believe in the rights of business owners.
Lester Maddox was a business owner too.
The Titanic was a ship.
Lester Maddox sought to assert his right to not serve black customers. A business owner today might assert his right not to serve gay customers. Seriously, what’s the difference?
Pointing out that you don’t understand why gay customers would not want to patronize such businesses makes about as much sense as asking why black Tech students would want to patronize Maddox’s business. Of course they wouldn’t want to give that man money. But they attempted to do so to assert their basic civil rights. It’s the exact same fight today.
Horrible man but lawd he had the best fried chicken.
You beat me to it Beth.
Everyday I have to drive over a bridge dedicated to that man, and I can’t understand why.
There’s a Lester Maddox bridge?
Oh Walrus-you’re so silly.
What would your solution be then? Since you’re in tune with both sides of the issue?
Solution to what?
Exactly my point. Pure silliness.
Then we are in agreement. There is nothing to solve.
Yes walrus! We are in agreement. The titanic was a ship.
Perfect example of liberal “tolerance”. You are openly questioning why someone who doesn’t share your views would live in Decatur. Translation: Shut the f*ck up – we don’t care and we don’t want to hear it.
I hear you, but it isn’t really so very different from ” why would anyone WANT to use someone for a service that is so adamantly against their lifestyle?” I wonder if that wasn’t part of New Scott’s point.
Agreed. He didn’t suggest Walrus shouldn’t live in Decatur, he wondered why he would WANT to do so.
I guarantee you I am more socially liberal than most folks around here. I do ok here. But his point just made my point, as far as I am concerned.
Yes, I think it’s a fair question. Why WOULD someone who is a raging conservative choose to live in a place that’s progressive? It would seem to me that the person would constantly be getting upset and stressed. This is Georgia and the person could live absolutely anywhere else and feel much more at home. I’m not at all saying they CAN’T live here, I’m questioning why they would want to. I chose to live in Decatur specifially because it’s more progressive. And finally, yes, if you’re saying that others aren’t entitled to the same benefits that you are because they’re different from you, then you bet, I don’t want to hear it.
One explanation, at least based on my experience, is that Decatur is not as universally progressive as one might think. I understand we have a progressive reputation and many progressive policies, but those assessments are not rendered in a vacuum. They’re defined in context which, in this case, is Georgia. We seem progressive because so much of what surrounds us operates at a polar opposite.
The reality, and I think this will reveal itself after you’ve lived here quite a few years, is that there’s a significant level of conservative sentiment here. And that’s led to one of the things I like the best: the way we tend to do things reflects a pragmatic sensibility in which no one of a hard left or hard right orientation is thrilled. The fact that we have many policies that are largely tolerable to a very high number of residents is because we’re not overtly ideological in either direction.
I am not upset. I can and do enjoy living in Decatur just as much as you. But, I see absolutely zero correlation between political beliefs and where ones lives. I know many liberals in Alpharetta. I know conservatives in Decatur (“many” was intentionally deleted). I don’t see why it matters. Then again, I am not trying to suppress opposing views.
Hurray for the moderate, iterative, self-correcting approach! It’s not the right response for emergency, split-second decisions but, as a long-term approach, it seems to have served Decatur well over the years.
I don’t think The Walrus said that at all. I also don’t see how his point of view makes him a “raging conservative”. I take his point as questioning why the government needs to get involved to force private citizens to act a certain way. Heaven forbid someone question the government. While in this instance it may be completely understandable, allowing government to constantly interfere is a slippery slope and all of us, black, white, orange, pink, gay, straight, bi etc.. need to be vigilant. I also don’t see how living in Decatur and choosing to be a patron of an establishment that doesn’t support you and your lifestyle are the same remotely. Then again i believe we can be “progressive” with our tolerance of one another and maintain some common sense and free thought in the process.
I really hope you weren’t referring to me as “raging conservative.” If so, you just haven’t been paying attention.
If we could get beyond progressive vs. conservative, and instead consider issues in terms of freedom vs. force, I think we’d all be a lot better off. I get more than a little bit itchy at any third party (state, city, or other) who presumes to help me by constraining the kinds of business, social, or other interactions I might want to have or not have, voluntarily with others.
Should I be free as a business owner to refuse service to anyone? Yup
Should the community be free to picket, protest, write nasty FFAF posts about me? You bet
Nope. Your guess about me is wrong.
One kind of hate and discrimination hurts your feelings and makes you sad.
The other kind of hate and discrimination actually literally gets people murdered.
I think it’s okay to say that one of those two is worse, and might even need to be curtailed.
“Should I be free as a business owner to refuse service to anyone? Yup
Should the community be free to picket, protest, write nasty FFAF posts about me? You bet”
One could extend that to say a business owner should be free to pollute the environment and the only recourse for people are protests and boycotts. I think allowing business’s to discriminate based on certain things is also harmful, a different kind of harm than pollution, but poisonous for our social fabric.
The “well, you can go somewhere else/protest” feels kind of naive to me – maybe in Decatur it wouldn’t be an issue, but say, if there’s only one pharmacy in a small town and the pharmacist refuses to fill prescriptions for the morning-after pill? “Oh, well, you should just take your business elsewhere.”
Where do you go when there’s nowhere else TO take your business?
I don’t know if proponents of that law are “filled with hate” or not. But one simply cannot use their religious beliefs to justify discrimination- no matter how sincerely-held those beliefs may be. It is beyond me why some people feel the need to respect others’ religious beliefs, no matter how ignorant, bigoted or absurd they might be.
I don’t respect their beliefs, believe me. I do believe in the right of business owners to choose who they want to do business with, however. I also believe in the right of individuals to choose to not support certain businesses. Again, why would anyone want to use the service of someone who held these beliefs?
Which is why I boycott Chik Fil A
Exactly.
Exactly. I also do not go to C-F-A now, but that is my choice.
But C-F-A cannot refuse service to a couple because they are gay because The Constitution. (also a precedent set here in good ole ATL, “Heart of Atlanta Hotel vs. US”)
It’s been settled in constitutional law in the US that it is NOT OK for a business to refuse service due to civil rights.
IS that so hard to understand?
“But C-F-A cannot refuse service to a couple because they are gay”
Actually they can, but they choose not to. The USSC has never held denying service due to sexual orientation to be a violation of civil rights.
If this was so settled, states wouldn’t be trying to pass these laws.
Correct. And more fundamentally, the Constitution applies to state action, not private action like service at a lunch counter. Congress can regulate the lunch counter service through legislation, and it has done so, but only as to race, sex, national origin and religion, never as to sexual orientation. So DF is correct that, as a matter of federal law, they can refuse service to gays and lesbians (though they don’t). Some states, however, do have anti-discrimination laws that would prohibit such private discrimination.
I always get a kick out of the fools going on and on about how their First Amendment rights have been violated after they were fired by their private employer b/c they, for ex., bad mouthed their boss or employer on Facebook. If you took a poll, I bet 3/4 of the people in this county don’t know that the Constituion applies only to state action (although I bet the numbers are reversed in a highly educated town like Decatur).
Interstate commerce has been defined very broadly by the courts. What appears to be merely a state action often is not.
Agree DawgFan. Have to wonder what they teach the kiddies about the Constitution in the public schools.
Decaturite16, not sure what you mean. State action and interstate commerce are two different things.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Exhibit A, Decaturite16. The Constitution grants Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce, and yes, it has been interpreted extremely broadly. However, that does not mean that private enterprises operating within interstate commerce are subject to the Constitution. In fact, they are not. Their actions aren’t state actions. AT&T can quash free speech of its employees. IBM doesn’t have to give its employees due process. Congress has enacted legislation to prevent private enterprises from discriminating against certain classes, but those protections are based on federal statute(s), and not the Constitution.
“I always get a kick out of the fools going on and on about how their First Amendment rights have been violated after they were fired by their private employer b/c they, for ex., bad mouthed their boss or employer on Facebook.”
Here’s an interesting question though. More than a few cops have been disciplined or fired for ranting on Facebook about whatever, and they’ve cited the First Amendment as defense. I haven’t followed the outcomes of these cases, but I suppose the government (police department) cites some conduct policy that allows them to act in these situations. Yes?
My lay understanding is that, as a right to work state, Georgia employers, including governmental agencies, can fire at will and don’t have to justify their decision to do so although they are prohibited from discriminating on the basis of those protected classes mentioned above. Particular workplaces may have their own policies that require justification for firing, but those policies aren’t required.
Katzenbach v McClung (1964): An Alabama restaurant that practiced racial discrimination was subject to federal civil right laws because it served food manufactured outside the state.
Congrats. You can google. Still not subject to the Constutution.
brianc, I don’t have a specific answer for any one case, nor do I think one answer fits all. But, I believe the reason the police force can enact policies lies with the fact that no right is absolute (based on our conversations here, I know you understand that fact. But, it is one that most fail to grasp). National security and public safety are probably the two biggest reasons why rights are commonly infringed upon. In this case, although you or I may not agree with the reasoning, I could see a police force justifying such a policy. A lack of confidence in the police force undoubtedly hinders their ability to protect the public. If employees are making public statements which negatively affects public confidence in the police, the public is less safe. Again, not arguing the merits of the policy, but I believe that justification might pass a constitutional test.
“In this case, although you or I may not agree with the reasoning, I could see a police force justifying such a policy. ”
I actually agree with those policies, for the most part. And I think you’re probably right about it being a matter of no constitutional right being absolute.
So you’re OK with African Americans being denied entrance to a “white only” restaurant?
Gone down this road before. No, I am not ok with it. I would hope a place like that would close immediately. But I do believe that a business should have that freedom. I believe in the free market to handle it. Before I get bombarded, I do think the Civil Rights Act was necessary, though.
“But I do believe that a business should have that freedom. I believe in the free market to handle it. Before I get bombarded, I do think the Civil Rights Act was necessary, though.”
Necessary because we live in reality, not utopia, whatever your definition of utopia is.
No, necessary because the government participated in the discrimination.
Based on the will of the majority of the people at the time.
Makes no difference.
This article states how I feel much better than I did. In the spirit of open-mindedness, I hope you all give it a read.
http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/02/we-can-oppose-bigotry-without-politician
Probably going to regret interjecting here, but how do you and WB not understand there is a huge difference between defending a right that applies equally to all and defending how an individual chooses to exercise that right? They are not the same.
Walrus – Did you own a Woolworth lunch counter in Greensboro, NC once upon a time?
Darn! Yours was said SO much better than mine… (quietly going back to my seat to observe now)
Yes, I am a racist. Real nice, WB. Don’t be an asshole.
Ahem. High schoolers read this blog regularly. Gentle nudge: please stick to language allowed in DHS and my home. I have enough trouble with language. There’s always @#$%^& if you are having trouble finding an acceptable expression.
Listen to 60 seconds of any rap song high schoolers listen to. You will hear many words (or suggestions) which you will find more offensive. I promise you the teenagers can handle seeing the word a-hole.
Yes, they can handle it. And yes I know that those earphones contain a lot that I don’t condone. No, they may not use that word and many others at school or in my presence. They need to find ways to express themselves vehemently without using rude language. It’s a skill….:)
Yes Walrus – pls use not-veiled-at-all accusations that the person you disagree with is a racist instead of calling him an a-hole. Maybe the high-schoolers won’t get that.
Fair enough, but the dude just called me a racist.
I didn’t call you a racist. But I was pointing out that the way you express your logic makes you seem like one. Interesting that I’ve seen this phenomenon all over the internet. That is, “libertarians” trying to defend the legal basis for the Arizona proposed law. And then they wonder why people just don’t get that they aren’t really in favor of the law. I’m sure you’ll try to explain this and call me dense for not understanding your position. I’ve seen that too, but go ahead. I understand what you’re saying, and you think you are being misunderstood and mistaken and all that. That’s fine.
WB did you mean to suggest that Walrus owned the non-racist Woolworth’s lunch counter in Greensboro, NC? Ok then.
We weren’t even discussing race when you made that statement. You brought race into it. I also believe that a black store owner can refuse white customers. Does that make me racist against white people as well? Finally, I made no statement as to whether I agreed with the AZ law or not.
Is that true that a black store owner can refuse white customers on the basis of race? I thought not.
At Home – Who said it was allowed? I think you missed my point.
Yes, I must have missed point. I’m losing track of arguments and counter-arguments and counter-counter-arguments. But I am clear that we as a nation have not yet figured out discrimination.
How, and better yet why does this board always get so nasty? Reading through the playground taunting is so tiresome just to get to the good stuff. Bring back the DM threads of old.
. . . nothing’s ever as good as it used to be.
I’m not as good as I once was.
But I’m as good once, as I ever was!
Some of us think this is the good stuff.
Dang. And I was having a rare great day until I read all this. I have GOT to go on a DM diet.
scroll scroll fast scroll faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“I do believe in the right of business owners to choose who they want to do business with, however.”
That right has limits in the law, and it’s time to expand those limits to protect homosexuals. Homosexuality is not a a “lifestyle choice” (though the already protected category of religion certainly is).
And that’s what makes this difficult, you have two competing sets of rights that have been recognized and which the law seeks to both protect and balance. I won’t pretend to know how to resolve this, it’s a thorny one. Frankly I am amazed that Walrus willingly waded into this! Very hard to have a rational conversation about it, especially on the interwebs.
Yeah, last time I went down this road, I got called everything under the sun. Should have known better…
“And that’s what makes this difficult,”
I think at some point common sense has to prevail. We’re not going allow discrimination against divorced people, for example, though it would be justifiable if religion is cited. And that’s a choice (at least for one of the parties). Homosexuality is not a “choice.”
That’s why the law proposed in Arizona and Georgia are so pointless. A business can already refuse to contract for a service or product because they feel it wouldn’t benefit their bottom line, would not fit their brand, or because it’s Tuesday. These laws open up every action to unintended consequences.
I hear (and read here frequently) how “liberals” and the “politically-correct” crowd get offended at the drop of a hat. Well, it seems that is equally true of “conservatives” when their religion is questioned.
I have no problem with people practicing their faith. But it is getting harder to feel sympathy for those who become offended while practicing their faith so openly as to affect non-religious law. If you do that, then be prepared for someone who doesn’t practice your faith to ask “What for?” or “Why?”
Use your brain and don’t bring your brand of religion or politics into EVERYTHING and you’ll likely find that the world isn’t out to get you.
“Well, it seems that is equally true of “conservatives” when their religion is questioned.”
Oh man do I have first hand experience with this with my Southern family. But I’d argue it’s a cultural and political thing as much as a religious issue, based somewhat on race and somewhat on class. Suggest Tim Tebow might not be good enough to start in the NFL? Must be because they don’t want a “real” Christian voicing his opinion. Or, “if he were black he wouldn’t get criticized”. Suggest that “Happy Holidays” is a more inclusive store greeting for a diverse public? Nope, it’s a War On Christmas. Note that evolution is accepted by the vast majority of scientists? It’s because they’re atheists or Jews.
I’ve also heard statements like “a Democrat can’t be a Christian” (this one really pisses of my Baptist mother-in-law, who disagrees with Democrats on pretty much every social issue but refuses to vote Republican).
Maybe because they like the quality of the product or service they offer and feel like the religious beliefs of the business owner are none of their concern?
(This was in response to Walrus’s post 70 or 80 posts upthread.)
But why do private business owners need a law in place to confirm something that some of them already do? They can do business with whomever they want now – without the law. So what’s the purpose?
+1
Well, I haven’t said whether or not I agree with the proposed law, but the purpose was to prevent them from getting sued.
I know you haven’t. Someone would have a hard time proving that they were discriminated against based on their sexual orientation unless the business owner outright said “I’m not going to work with you because you’re gay.”
I just don’t understand why there is a need to legalize discrimination that already occurs. Is it just to make the business owner feel better?
The opposite type of legislation – outlawing this type of discrimination – is needed.
Well, I am usually not a fan of any new law being put in the books.
“the purpose was to prevent them from getting sued.”
Not exactly. The real purpose is pandering to a radical base.
Fair enough.
Is it legal for a business owner to put up a sign that says “we prefer to only do business with straight people”, without actually refusing service? Isn’t this effectively what chick-fil-a has done? Or the signs on the highway for motels that are “American Owned” or have the Christian fish symbol on them? Seems like there’s plenty of constitutionally protected ways to express bigotry if your goal is to reduce the size of your customer base.
Legal, but would be good evidence against them if they were sued for denying service. By the way, though I strongly disagree with what the CEO (or whatever his title is) of Chick-fi-li said and support those who choose not to eat there, I don’t believe they have “effectively” said “they would prefer only to do business with straight people.” Though I don’t doubt some in the organization feel that way, I believe they have said they welcome all business.
Chris, should we go ahead and appoint you to pass judgment on the acceptability of religious beliefs?
I’m entitled to pass judgment on the acceptability of someone’s religious beliefs and anyone can pass judgement on the acceptability of my beliefs. Criticism is fine, discrimination is not.
I concur that the word hate is overused. I prefer the words ignorance and hypocrisy, which tend to be more applicable to the issue. That said, I’m not against a bit of hyperbole if it works to defeat these measures.
Consider what these kinds of laws could lead to. Banks denying services to divorced people. Doctors denying services to unmarried pregnant women.
I’m not claiming those things would be likely to happen (even though the Bible is much more definitive about divorce than homosexuality, the latter has clearly been the focus for the Christian right), the door would be open.
Yes, and I’m afraid of what would accompany the legal ability for private businesses to discriminate against certain buyers. How would businesses decide someone was gay? Or divorced? Or pregnant outside of marriage? Or libertine? Or a pot user? Not a pretty picture. Lots of room for hearsay, profiling, slander, pettiness, and an atmosphere that could nurture and advance true hate crimes. I have no idea what the legal and constitutional basis is for prohibiting private businesses to discriminate. But I would argue as a lay person that one has entered the public arena once one enters into commerce. You have extended beyond the realm of private property.
“I have no idea what the legal and constitutional basis is for prohibiting private businesses to discriminate”
You can’t discriminate against a protected class, and the levels of protection aren’t identical. To date, sexual oreintation has been given very little, if any, protection by the courts.
“To date, sexual orientation has been given very little, if any, protection by the courts.”
But some states (don’t the number off the top of my head) have outlawed discrimination against people based on sexual orientation. The nature of such laws vary by state. But I believe some courts have already ruled in favor of homosexuals who were denied service based on sexual orientation.
Correct. The level of protection is increasing in certain states. But, it is almost non-existent on federal level.
“But I would argue as a lay person that one has entered the public arena once one enters into commerce. You have extended beyond the realm of private property.”
I agree, and generally so do the courts, thankfully.
Not true. Her statement suggests a waiver of rights by entering into public commece, which isn’t accurate. When you open a business, you aren’t acting as the government; thus, you aren’t the “public”. You are still a private citizen with the same set of rights. However, you can’t infringe on certain other rights of customers/potential customers.
“However, you can’t infringe on certain other rights of customers/potential customers.”
That’s what I was thinking of. As a private citizen, I can choose not to ever invite a Christian into my home. As a landlord, I cannot refuse to rent to one.
I don’t think we are disagreeing, but I take issue with labeling a private business owner a public actor. If that was the case, every business is essentially nationalized. Yes, you subject yourself to some of the same rules as the government as consideration for being allowed to operate your business, but you are still a private citizen (i.e. you can deny one’s right of free speech).
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits certain businesses — mostly in entertainment, transportation, lodging, and restaurants — from discriminating against customers on the basis of race. Under federal law, that’s it. Other businesses can racially discriminate all they want, and any business can discriminate against customers on the basis of sexual orientation, gender, religion, etc. (Some municipalities and states have passed more expansive legislation, I believe including Atlanta.)
Customers can chose to discriminate all they want, but under the CRA of 1866 it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race when entering into contracts.
It seemed to me that certain legislators in Arizona were either trying to pick a fight or appeal to (some of their) voters during an election year.
“appeal to (some of their) voters during an election year.”
That’s my guess. And I’m sure some who get to brag they voted for it are thankful it was vetoed.
“Other businesses can racially discriminate all they want, and any business can discriminate against customers on the basis of sexual orientation, gender, religion, etc”
Um, no. Title II of the Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination based on religion, and “public accommodations” has been broadly defined by the courts to include pretty much any business but not private clubs.
Religion is indeed protected; national origin as well. Though I don’t know how widely the courts have expanded the entities covered.
“That said, I’m not against a bit of hyperbole if it works to defeat these measures.”
True, but in this case I think such hyperbole only derails the conversation. If you don’t believe me, see above. The entire conversation is about the word “hate” – whether they are filled with it, whether it is the appropriate word, etc. It isn’t helping defeat a single thing – if anything, it makes people defensive and thus more obstinate.
If you want to be serious for a moment, I’ll tell you what I “hate”. I hate people calling themselves Christian and using that to justify discrimination and, yes, more hate. The “Christ” in “Christian” espoused the exact opposite of what the hypocrites claim. So, “Christians who truly believe that lifestyle goes against their religion” really do not exist because no Christian, based on a strict definition of those who adhere to Christ’s teaching, would believe such a thing. To me, it’s like someone saying “I’m a vegetarian because I love animals so get that nasty steak away from me. I’ll have the chicken instead.”
Personally, with apologies to Lyrics Only Guy, I think Edie Brickell said it best. Religion, is the smile on a dog…
I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, what is “Traditional Marriage” anyway? Was it the tradition of having multiple wives? The tradition of owning your wife as property? The tradition of only the man can get a divorce? It is a ridiculous argument to make. And most Christians seems to pick and choose which “sin” is most important to focus on. I don’t see many of them trying to ban divorce!
+!: Christ advocated for the lepers, harlots, poor widows, little children, beggars, and desperate folks in general against the power of the Roman Empire, entitled wealthy landowners with slaves, and self-important religious leaders. My guess is that he would not be real big on any kind of discrimination in any setting. No matter what the religion, hatred, condemnation, discrimination seem out of place–more about tribalism, paranoia, fear of the unknown than about religion.
++1
So, “Christians who truly believe that lifestyle goes against their religion” really do not exist because no Christian, based on a strict definition of those who adhere to Christ’s teaching, would believe such a thing.
________________
The prior Pope believed this.
So did his predecessors. And that’s one of the reasons I left the Catholic Church as soon as I was old enough to read and think for myself.
Doesn’t make it right. The reigning Pope during Facism in Italy wasn’t known for his moral courage.
Man has Rick Julian’s little wordplay taken us far afield, in what, like 15 minutes?
And I thought it was a good word play. I giggled.
[looks up at the sky, whistling as he slowly walks away]
Don’t ye be thinkin’ we ain’t a comin’ fer ye, Julian!
Not claiming it is right or wrong — I’m no theologian — just that it’s incorrect to say that no real Christians can believe it. They do.
Nope, it’s not incorrect. You missed my main point. The people who call themselves Christian but still say and believe such things are not in fact Christians. They’ve just co-opted the name.
BOOM. This.^ To the 1Millionth power!!!
“They do.”
And this is the crux of the issue to me. Yes, there are different ways of interpreting religious text, but the reality is that much of those texts (Old Testament, New Testament, Koran) are incompatible with free societies based on individual rights. If we are going to disallow discrimination against people based on their religion, then we must also disallow the use of religion to discriminate against people when such discrimination touches any aspect of public life. That’s my belief, anyway.
My father in law reconciles his prejudices with his Christianity by saying that Jesus had greater capacity for goodness than a flawed sinner like him. Act like the bar was too high and hope you’re forgiven in the end.
I hate a lot of things
I hate a lot of people that are lame
I like to hate stuff
Cause then I don’t have to try and make a change
“Cool to Hate”
-Offspring
I love this bar,
It’s my kind of place.
Just walkin’ through the front door,
puts a big smile on my face
It ain’t too far, come as you are,
Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar!
you know what other lifestyles go against their religions? people of all other religions. alduterers. divorcees. female teachers. should they be allowed to deny service to those people?
and while we’re at it, why should religious beliefs have more protection than non-religious beliefs? why do my beliefs not deserve protection under the law? am i not as equal?
I suppose you could call your beliefs a religion, yes? Antism, maybe. Also, don’t forget shrimp eaters. They’re terrible heathens, too.
Now you’re talking. I strongly believe that taxes are way too high, so I’ll head on over to the IRS for my massive refund today!
Great point. And since it’s illegal under federal law to discriminate based on religion, you could have the situation of a bed and breakfast owner legally allowed to refuse service to a gay couple (in some states), but not a Satanist couple. An extreme example, but possible I suppose.
I’ve already told my students that if this law passes, I’m requiring all students with tattoos to drop the course, as it’s forbidden in Judaism. I am semi-serious. I will be a test case just to get this nonsense law shut down.
So CSD simply added 4-5 minutes to each class. At least for my kids at RMS and DHS.
Lame – from a lesson planning/catchup point of view, I really don’t see the point and now consider this 30 minute extension a big waste of all of our time.
I would like to know what the teachers think. My mind could be changed.
Noooooooooooooooo!!! Already discussed!! Find the other post!! Noooooooooooooo!!!
+1
Oh, Deanne. Bless your heart. And doubly bless it if you think you can talk sense to the people who are going to respond here
I just couldn’t hold back sayin’ it this time! :0)
Maybe DM needs to start having a School Yard Friday thread too.
I seriously think that’s a good idea. And a Monday Annexation thread, Tuesday Tree thread, Wednesday Walmart thread, etc.!
* Whoops! Schoolyard, not school yard! :0)
AHID, YES!!! And Thursday Transit too! :0)
i honor of this subject. i will make my answer 4-5 words longer. four or five words.
I see what you did there, and commend you for it, sir.
Spouse scolds me for not “keeping up” with my local news feeds and email lists
Shit. If that was the worst thing I got scolded by the spouse for, I’d feel like I was doing damn good.
Ahem.
well done.
Your spouse ROCKS– on here and in real life!!! :0)
(She’s also why I bit my tongue hard when you wandered in on a 2 yr old topic earlier this week. That absurd Good Grief Dekalb focused article? OMG!!! Don’t even let me get started thinking on that…)
I’d like to know what the teachers think too. While adding 4-5 minutes to each class seems like frittering away the 30 added minutes, I have to admit that, the few times I’ve volunteered in a classroom for a whole period, 4-5 minutes could feel like an eternity with 30 students on my hands. And my offspring certainly seem to find this an intolerable, unjust, shocking burden….:)
Ahem.
I guess I (the said scolder) missed the discussion about the distribution of the extra thirty minutes as well. Can someone point us to it?
I’m disappointed that the time is being added to each class each day. I would much rather have seen a special tutoring session where each kids gets extra time in the subject they are struggling in or maybe one class elongated each day on a rotating basis or some other similar way of making those 30 minutes truly count.
I’m content with the extra 30 minutes and how they were added to the day. I just don’t like the fact that each class gets FOUR extra minutes each day. Seems like a such waste, but maybe the teachers don’t?
Where did you see that each class would be extended 4-5 minutes? I’ve checked my email, the DHS website, and the CSD Facebook page. They said they would announce how the 30 minutes would be used this week but I’m coming up empty on a search.
A flyer came home to our house yesterday with a detailed breakdown of the daily schedule.
….by mail, I believe.
Thank you — didn’t think to check there. All the mail is for the kid anyway—- college ads!
Thank you — didn’t think to check there. All the mail is for the kid anyway-college ads!
yup – ours came by mail. And from the kids themselves.
In Google Fiber news, I read on Peach Pundit today that a Brookhaven Commissioner said earlier this week that all the cities on Google’s web list (I assume this includes Decatur) made the cut. Later in the week, the commissioner backtracked. Did he speak incorrectly or did he speak to soon?
If all the cities made it then there really wasn’t a “cut.”
Google’s website states that they want all the cities listed to make the cut. I don’t think they are choosing some cities over the others. It appears that they will go to all the cities listed if they can meet the requirements.
Yeah, that’s my understanding too. It’s not a competition between the cities.
Anyone know why police blocked Woodlawn Ave for at least an hour yesterday afternoon? Hoping it wasn’t anything serious in the end.
Commercial filming.
“there’s got to be a better way!”
Been wondering this for awhile. The ancient wheeled carts that just loiter around the yard of the depot, now the Kimball House. I know they’re there because no one has a better place to put them. And I do like them. But I was just wondering, are they actually antiques? Do they date back to the days when the depot was actually a train depot? Anyone know?
They are the real thing. The depot was in use as late as the 80’s but I can’t remember if it was both freight and passenger service.
Since we’re talking about the Kimball House, does anybody else feel sad every time they pass it and see that sad cream/tan color? Seems as ugly to me as the faux marble of the Decatur Diner obviously was to other people. I miss the green/red color scheme on that building. And now I’m going to be depressed all day about this. Because first-world problems…
The young radical in me (which is buried DEEP inside) gets sad when I drive by there thinking of all the bourgeois non-sense, noshing on oysters and $12 drinks, that happens there every night. Makes me miss funky ol’ Decatur. But then I snap out of that, back into my own bourgeois non-sense, and wonder if I can ever make it there by 5 so I can enjoy those oysters on the cheap. Realizing, probably not, I get sad again. But hurray for everyone else that gets to partake. Turning bitter in my old age . . .
I miss the funky ol’ Freight Room, but then I remember that I’d probably be too old for that now.
The Freight Room smelled. It really did.
I forgot about that. But I mostly sat outside.
Don’t have to make it by 5 — have to make it by about 6.45 to give you time to get seated and order.
Hi, I’m Brad and I have an oyster problem…
I like the color, and I usually like a little more pop. I hated the green and red.
The green and red seemed faux quaint to me. Not close enough to the original weatherbeaten look of the Freight Room.
City of Briarcliff, City of Lakeside, City of Tucker …
Anybody here in Decatur feeling “Annexation Envy”?
Nope.
I have to admit a sense of schadenfreude at DUELIN’ SECESSIONISTS.
Everyone wants to take their ball and go home, but there’s only so much ball to go around.
What we need is more folks feeling “Annexation Likelihood” and taking an interest in the Medline LCI. It was disappointing not to see many City of Decatur residents at last night’s Workshop. It’d be nice to think folks would participate just because it’s the area around us, but if it takes the extra nudge of “what’s in it for me?”…
Anyway, here’s the link to MANA’s fyi for last night’s meeting. Interested folks will be able to learn more about the Medline LCI and provide input through the survey:
http://www.medlockpark.org/2014/02/reinventing-our-streets-lets-medline.html
Seriously Decatur, are you going to annex or not? When do I find out? Why is the process so secretive? If my property value is going to double, I need to know. If my taxes are going to double, I need to know.
“Throw me something, Mister!”
If you think that is something you’ll only hear in New Orleans, think again!!
Oakhurst has quietly been establishing its own Mardi Gras tradition for almost 10 years.
So grab your beads, decorate your bike, scooter or soap box derby car and come second line as we bring a little bit of Carnival to Decatur.
Saturday March 1st is the date! The parade begins at Harmony Park at 2pm. We’ll parade up Mead Road to The Imperial, at the corner of Mead and West College, for the party. And the party will go on for as long as people are there to celebrate!!
Beads will be provided and The Imperial will feature a special menu of red beans and rice, chicken and sausage gumbo, crawfish etouffee, bread pudding and Abita beer. Proceeds from the food sales will support Decatur Education Foundation music grants for the Decatur City Schools.
It is so quiet I have lived a block away for a decade and a half and never noticed….
Thread jack – – can anyone recommend a great periodontist open on Fridays? My current doc is great, but waayyy across town and doesn’t take Friday appointments. Thanks
If you’ll go a bit outside of Decatur, heartily recommend Dr. Bartruff at Piedmont Periodontics, on the west side of PP.
He is open on Fridays, although I believe he is out of town this week for a wedding.
I inherited gum/pocket problems from some generous ancestor, so I see him a lot. 😉
Plus a thousand for Bartruff. Just fixed my ailing gums.
Dr. Abe Shuster is a gruff but lovable god of gums; office at 999 Peachtree but he lives in Decatur
Dr. Nathan Shapiro in Northlake! Great doctor and wonderful staff!
Excellent tongue in cheek Op-Ed piece today in the NY Times, “When May I Shoot a Student?”, by Boise State biology professor Greg Hampikian. The Idaho House of Representatives is likely to pass a bill allowing guns on campus.
Quote: “I assume that if a student shoots first, I am allowed to empty my clip; but given the velocity of firearms, and my aging reflexes, I’d like to be proactive. For example, if I am working out a long equation on the board and several students try to correct me using their laser sights, am I allowed to fire a warning shot?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/28/opinion/when-may-i-shoot-a-student.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
On a less controversial note, I’d like to remind everyone that I’m doing a service project to benefit the Decatur High close up club on March 22nd. It’s a “rake and run”. A team of students and an adult supervisor will come to your house for ~1 hr and do any type of hard work you need done (considering safety reasons). Chris/Mr. Billingsley used to run these, some of you probably know him. This is a free service for homeowners but donations are accepted. All donations go to paying for the Close Up trip to DC. Contact me for more details at:
[email protected]
Thanks!
Hurray, Connor! Hurray, Close Up! Hurray, Mr. B! Hurrany, Mr. B’s successor(s)!
This has not been a fun FFAF at all. Is it that everyone is just sick of winter? We need a festival of some sort.
And Voila!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Decatur-Arbor-Day-Festival/456706804458036
I’ll take it. Rick Julian isn’t invited!
(Just kidding people!)
Well I’ve had fun. I don’t get folks on here having their days ruined by this. This isn’t real life, this is the internet.
It didn’t ruin my day, but it did bring me down just a bit to see my neighbors clawing at each other’s throats.
It may be the fun Internet to you, but to me, it was a lesson in how caustic a discussion can get on a blog that’s normally a thousand times more polite and thoughtful than most other sites.
Some things on here change the arc of universe (or at least Decatur). This discussion did not move the needle even one millimeter, one way or the other. I might be at my neighbor’s throat but I would not know him if I bumped into him, so in real life, our relationship, our real community, is no worse off.
“…so in real life, our relationship, our real community, is no worse off.”
I disagree. In spite of the anonymity DM affords, I think real damage is done here. I believe I speak for a lot of DM readers in saying that this blog gives a lot of insight into how our neighbors think. For me, witnessing how quickly some resort to accusations, name calling and insults makes Decatur feel just a little less special.
Am I taking it too seriously? Probably. But does knowing that change how I feel? No.
I guess my perspective is different . . . because I don’t take this seriously . . . because in real life I eschew “accusations, name calling and insults” – except with my close friends who know I’m kidding. I’m often insulted by The Walrus, but it doesn’t impact me, the real me, at all. I imagine in real life he would insult me much less if we were live and in person, if at all. It’s true the anonymity allows us to say things really on our mind, and that’s interesting. But the true test of a community’s character is how its citizens treat each other – in real life. So you can look here for a glimpse into our thoughts and words but our true character shows in our deeds – and you can’t find that in online comment sections.
There are times that this blog is brilliant and useful and makes a huge difference in our community. And there are times that it’s none of the above.
We agree again. Well said.
I insult YOU? You called me a racist!
But I have no doubt that if we ran into each other, we would have a good time over beer.
For all we know, we already have.
Indeed.
Horse dead. Well beaten.
You people sure do love to listen to yourselves.
Oh bugger off – that’s the point of a comment section – to comment. You don’t like it? Keep on scrollin’
Ahem.
I don’t want to wade into this, BUT even though I 199% disagree with Walrus and tend to hold opinions similar to WB, I do not think Walrus is a racist or a homophobe and should not be accused of such things, even in jest. Carry on.
And a book plug. “American Nations — A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America” by Colin Woodard.
Somehow this book sneaked under my radar — it came out in 2011 — but I am finding it extremely entertaining and quite educational. He covers a quick and easy history of the various (subsets of European) cultures that established stable societies in North America during colonial times. Then he shows how their differences have continually defined the mostly regional divisions seen in American politics and culture since.
I wish I had been assigned this book in high school history. I was given the impression then that all the colonists were puritans and all the Founding Fathers fought for union, freedom and democracy. I remember studying Oglethorpe and the founding of utopian Georgia for poor yeomen farmers, but they somehow skipped over the part about the slave owning culture from Barbados that settled Charleston, then overran Georgia. They had no more high minded reason to join the revolution than the preservation of their “property rights” and their fear that the British were arming their slaves.
At least I can be proud of my Appalachian heritage.
Reminds me a bit of a book I read in the 1980s: The Nine Nations of North America by Joel Garreau. However, it was more superficial and is probably totally outdated now.
Thanks for this, it sounds fascinating and has gone on my short list.
Decatur history question…when I moved to Atlanta in 1990, there was a little restaurant in Decatur called Thumbs Up. IIRC, it was just off Ponce, maybe around the corner from where The Pinewood is now. They were known for their buckwheat pancakes and were a nuts-and-berries kind of place. Any relation to the current place on Ponce? And when did they close?
I think it was exactly where The Pinewood is now. Really good breakfast/brunch and really crowded on a weekend morning. My sketchy memory of the sequence of events is:
– Thumbs Up opened up a clone in one of the malls
– It left Decatur and a Vietnamese restaurant took its spot
– Crescent Moon came and filled the niche of Thumbs Up although it had a bigger space and was a little less crunchy
– Crescent Moon closed and Thumbs Up took over but, by now, Thumbs Up was owned by different folks and it wasn’t exactly like the original Thumbs Up.
In the Pinewood spot, Thumbs Up became Crescent Moon (which later moved down the street, then became Thumbs Up), then Viet Chateau, then Cakes & Ale, then Pinewood. I think.
That’s the sequence I was trying to get at.
We used to just call it Crescent Thumb. It had a great mural on the side that I would stare at during my shift at Final Touch.
Wasn’t Pastries a Go Go in that little strip at some point before it moved into its current space?
Where Sawicki’s is now.
In 1989 my wife and I had our second date there for brunch — accompanied by her best friend.
I think that I was there to get her approval. It must have worked out, we’re still happily together twenty-five years later.
I think it was exactly where The Pinewood is now. Really good breakfast/brunch and really crowded on a weekend morning. My sketchy memory of the sequence of events is:
– Thumbs Up opened up a clone in one of the malls
– It left Decatur and a Vietnamese restaurant took its spot
– Crescent Moon came and filled the niche of Thumbs Up although it had a bigger space and was a little less crunchy
– Crescent Moon closed and Thumbs Up took over but, by now, Thumbs Up was owned by different folks and it wasn’t exactly like the original Thumbs Up.
Sounds about right. But the mall location was a Crescent Moon, not a Thumbs Up (unless it was before I moved back to this area).
Yeah, I think you’re right. I think I remember the mall location having a crescent moon on its storefront, not a thumb.
I believe there was another Thumbs Up in 4th Ward, maybe on Edgewood.
Lines out the door when I drove by.
I don’t think its there anymore, though.
For a good breakfast place that’s been around a while, Java Jive is still open on Ponce. Yum!
Thumbs Up is still on Edgewood and has also opened a BBQ joint a few doors down. There’s also a location on Marietta Street near the Tech campus.
There was also a Thumbs Up in Avondale a few years ago that didn’t last long.
The Avondale one was successful but was something of a victim of the stalled renewal of AE.
Java Jive is wonderful. Wish I could get over there more.
Looking for fun next weekend? Please consider supporting the Alliance Children’s Theatre. Tickets are $35 for adults and $20 for kids. Should be a great event!
http://www.alliancetheatre.org/content/families-centerstage
Hope to see you there!
Damn. That’s a big investment for a family of four.
Would appreciate suggestions for places with a small room for monthly meetings for 12 – 24 people in the Decatur, Toco Hill, Northlake areas. Restaurants or just a room would work. (Know about the libraries.) Thanks.
Frankly,
I think I recall the Decatur rec center having space when I went on the opening tour. Not sure of exact size, but I do recall these terrific tables made out fo the old gym flooring. I am pretty sure they had about 4-5 of those tables in the room. Good luck!
Cornerstone Bank has a community room.
I believe the Cornerstone room is available only to non-profits, and there’s been a nominal charge for it for a while.
Moe’s up on N. Druid Hills near the interestate has a back room, might not hold 24.
Could also check with a member’s church.
Have had meetings in the conference room at the Toco Hills Kroger, but it’s rather unfancy.
Who knew that grocery chains have meeting rooms? Is this common? If so, got to remember that. I certainly buy enough groceries that I should be considered a preferred customer.
Chocolate Coffee at N. Decatur and Clairmont has a back room that can be reserved, but I don’t know how big it is.
It’s pretty small. I’d say that eight is the maximum that fits comfortably in there. Plus you have to sign up month to month so you’re never guaranteed the spot.
On this epic “Free-for-all Friday,” I submit a friendly reminder that TONIGHT is the deadline to save $ on registering for the Tour deCatur 5K (or 1-Mile Fun Run). Proceeds benefit Decatur youth. More at http://www.TourDecatur.com
And it doesn’t matter how far or fast you can run — this is a great community event, what with all the school teams and kids running.
Many weeks ago, we had a discussion about cleaning your recyclables before placing them in the bin. I commented that I always run peanut butter jars, sour cream tubs, etc. through my dishwasher before putting them in the recycling. I also rinse beer bottles, etc. Then I was scolded by someone (I think it was Keith) who said I was using perfectly good water and energy unnecessarily, because we are not required to wash recyclables.
But Latham says, “wash items clean to ensure no trace of food waste is on the recyclables.” I have found this statement on all publications that I can find from Latham. So are you guys washing your recyclables or not?
I do a ‘good enough’ job. For challenging things like PB, I set them in my sink filled with water for a few hours and come back and rinse out. That usually takes care of 90% or more of the leftover PB. For things like mayo jars or dressing bottles, I fill them with about a cup of warm water, put the lid back on and shake loose the residual. I have a slight fear that ants will become attracted to my recycling bin if I don’t do some cleaning.
We actually run things like dressing and mayo container thru the dishwasher.
And that doesn’t use up extra water because the dishwasher was being run anyway.
And now a request …
Can someone suggest an affordable basement waterproofing company or contractor?
A company I will not name came to my house once. The engineer in the house looked at their proposal and immediately said we can do that ourselves and save $15K. Norm from This Old House happened to promote a product called Squidgee Dry (google it) around the same time (10 years ago). We spent our weekends for a month preparing the area and installing the system and a sump pump. For basements in GA it is all about managing the water and pumping it out. Good Luck! (We no longer live in that house but I think it worked out great.)
Harris Waterproofing & Construction
770-806-9756
installed drainage and a sump pump in a basement that is partially dug out with everything capped with concrete. Working great so far (3 years)/
I used AquaGuard. They came out and did a plan, starting working and realized the plan wouldn’t fix the problem. Did a complete re think and fixed the problem and all at no additional cost to me.
Where should we shop for prom dresses? Advice appreciated!
One recommendation and one vent:
Recommendation: whatever you do, be sure and check out Last Chance and other adult thrift stores, the earlier the better. Prom dresses, like wedding dresses, are often worn only once and are in near perfect condition at a fraction of their original cost at thrift stores. Even if you don’t normally shop at thrift stores, I highly recommend this. In fact, sometimes the selection is better than what you find at full price bridal/prom shops. But, as the prom approaches, less will be available.
Vent: Why are all prom dresses so slutty nowadays? What happened to long and slinky? Or at least short and cute? Or I’d even settle for short and provocative. But short, slutty, stupid, and cheap looking seems to be what I see online. And that’s for $400!
Aren’t you a little old to go to prom?
Definitely in a slutty dress.
We have to go slutty at our ages
There’s absolutely nothing I can say here that won’t get edited, is there?
Nope, I’d stick to less controversial topics like Obamacare, school zones, and gun control.
Ahem.
Point well-taken. I should say prom dresses that make one look like an illegal sex worker.
Workers cannot be illegal but sex can.
I guess this is the problem with using non-ahem words–less precise. I could say “prom dress that looks like it would be used by a purveyor of illegal sex” or I could say slu***.
The Junior League Nearly New Shop on Howell Mill always has a lot of nice dresses. Dillards
Thank you all! Dillard’s had great selection. We went with long and slinky. Times have changed — the high school girls have a Facebook page where each girl posts a photo of her dress at the time of purchase so no one else buys the same dress. I took all my prom dresses off to college for sorority dances there, so I’m anticipating multiple wears out of this dress. Even Kate Middleton re-wears her faves!
Three cheers for long and slinky! Hope it prevails!
Search “Rent the Runway”. Why buy a dress you/someone will wear once. Just rent it. I have never tried it before but I know someone who has. I definitely will look into doing this the next I need a formal dress.
Big fan of Rent the Runway! Only problem is that you don’t get the dress until right before the event, but if you generally know your size (or can go to the store to figure out what size you wear in that brand), you should be fine. You can also rent the accessories!
I looked at Rent the Runway and love the concept– but the rental was the same price as the dresses at Dillard’s with no way to try on before the big event. (Of course the designer names were bigger, but I’d rather have a perfect fit!)
Speaking of prom dresses, isn’t there a group that collects used formals for girls who might be unable to afford a dress? I have several, ahem, larger size formals that need a new home. Would love to pass them along.
Yes, Enchanted Closet (dot org)!
Now that GA Power has gone through the neighborhood and trimmed all branches away from power lines, I’d like to leave a comment! Can we please stop planting trees under power lines?!?!? There is one tree on Ansley,behind Renfroe, in the shape of an “L”. So many trees look so ridiculous. I can’t imagine it’s healthy for them.
Guess I like a full tree!
Putting all the utlity wires underground would do more for our tree canopy than any tree ordinance. Will be expensive though.
And the entire city would be so much more attractive.
Maybe we could combine it withe Google Fiber efforts:)
I have no idea how much this costs or any other disadvantages, but I’m very much in favor of this for reasons of attractiveness.
I am realizing how soon Jr. Bad Example will be here. Does anyone have pediatrician recommendations?
There’s lots of good options in Decatur these days and I’ll let the parents with bitty ones point you to them. But over the years, we’ve been happy with a variety of pediatricians at Children’s Medical Center at Clairmont and I-85. it’s a well-run but large group, highly respected for its professional quality. What I like is that if your pediatrician moves, retires, or dies, there’s always other great choices and there’s always plenty of staff to cross-cover, plus Saturday sick hours. Our latest favorite is Dr. Jennifer Shu who is the co-editor of the book “Heading Home With Your Newborn: From Birth to Reality, 2nd Edition”.
+1. CMG was great for us.
We also really like CMG and Jennifer Shu. She’s wicked smart, funny and personable. We completely trust her answers and advice. It is a large operation but surprisingly well-run. Highly-recommend.
Yup, you need two things in a pediatrician–first, someone with excellent training, smarts, and experience, and IMHO, CMG attracts that type of pediatrician. But equally important is the fit of the pediatrician’s style with you and your family. You need someone with whom you feel comfortable crying when nursing doesn’t go well or the sleep deprivation of the newborn is getting to you plus someone with whom you can communicate easily with when you have questions about your child’s health and you need answers that satisfy you. The most popular, highly-touted pediatrician is useless to you if you don’t feel comfortable with him/her. You spend enough time with your pediatrician in the first 5 years of life that you should feel comfortable. And you should feel free to change if something about the pediatrician or the practice or location or the insurance/billing isn’t working out for you. Sometimes you don’t know what you really need until your child is born and you have parenting and health issues to deal with.
We’ve happily used Dekalb Pediatric Center for many years.
Have been at DeKalb Peds for 20 years. You do see different doctors, but that doesn’t bother me. In two decades, I do recall a time when they had long waits, but that doesn’t happen any more.
I had a super preemie and she was released early from several specialists who trusted the doctors at DeKalb Peds. Can’t say much more in a way of endorsement than that.
We STRONGLY reccomend Oakhurst Pediatrics.
We took our son to Dekalb Peds for a year or so, but (and this is just MY experience) the wait times were terrible and the staff, while friendly, rotated so you got a different pediatrician basically every time.
Dr. Doyle, on the other hand, we followed all the way out to Conyers because she’s so great.
Second vote for Oakhurst Pediatrics. We did some time at DeKalb Pediatrics, and the doctors and PAs were fine, but the office staff were less so, and the extended phone recording I got every time I called drove me nuts. Just didn’t click there.
+++1 for Dr. Doyle at Oakhurst Pediatrics. We feel like we hit the lottery since she’s back in Decatur. Plus, she is a working mom with small kids too which means she gets the practical implications of having sick kids, something that not all pediatricians really appreciate. And finally, my small kids LOVE her.
CSD Parents: Just in case you’ve forgotten despite all the notifications: new school schedules start tomorrow!