Free-For-All Friday 10/18/13
Decatur Metro | October 18, 2013Feel free to use this post to make comments and ask questions about local issues not yet discussed here over the past week.
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For all those concerned about the impoverished Federal government workers, with the re-opening of the government, the federal workers are getting paid for their unexpected vacations. What a great deal, more paid vacation courtesy of the American tax-payers.
I think you mean “they can replenish the savings/repay the credit cards they had to live on for two weeks.”
But I’m sure you knew that and just wanted to take a cheap shot at those awful slackers at the CDC.
My comment was directed at those who suggested last week that “this shut-down would be different” and the federal employees would not be paid for the shut-down period.
And those who consult for the Federal Gov’t but through private companies and who were strongly advised to use their PTO during the shutdown. Will they be getting that back?
Or a group from Canada slated to perform in November, but their visas were unnable to come through in time and now the show has been canceled and all who would have worked on it have lost that income.
But they’ll be getting that back as well?
While I realize your overall point about the federal employees getting back pay, there are other workers who have also lost out.
Ooh, or the family that was on a waiting list for two years to raft the Colorado through the Grand Canyon, only to arrive the day of the shutdown! Boy, it sure is hilarious that they’re out the cost of the trip and accommodations!
It’s HILARIOUS when obstructionist jerks shut the system down to prove a point (and then protest against the shutdown they themselves implemented once they realize it made them look like heartless jerks).
You think one side is to blame for this mess?
Yup, all Republicans fault. The Senate hasn’t passed a budget in years, which they are required to do by law. The President has not offered a proposed budget that even his own party would vote for. And we can have legitimate disagreements about this president’s policies, but this guy is not a leader. Many people in his own party have said that for years. He doesn’t reach out to members of Congress to build relationships. He doesn’t get out there and show leadership in any way.
There is much blame to go around.
Hey, the National Review told me the Republicans/Tea Party were behind it.
“As critical as we have been of the shutdown strategy, we have also said that the people behind it have been clearer on the threat that Obamacare poses to the country than have many Republican leaders.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/361540/after-shutdown-editors
Walrus! Now I don’t have to say it. Surely plenty of blame for both sides (though you wouldn’t know it by reading the news.)
The most disconcerting outcome is that they only kicked the can down the road. There is no discipline (from either party) about controlling the skyrocketing ‘mandatory’ costs that will inevitably bring down the government in the reasonably near future.
We should all begin to write apology letters to our children, because we’ve got some serious explaining to do.
They shut down the Colorado river? Just another manufactured episode of Shutdown Theatre, brought to you by pouting administrators who believe the people work for them, not the other way around. See also, barricading open air monuments in DC. It’s a pure political stunt.
I have zero sympathy for federal employees for this two week “hardship.” For one thing, as Walrus said, if you’re an adult and don’t have at least two weeks worth of savings, it’s your own fault. But more importantly, federal employment has become a sinecure for those seeking to escape the performance standards of the private sector. Virtually no one gets fired in the federal government, regardless of incompetence or results. (Kathleen Sebelius and Lois Lerner, hello!) Federal employments also comes with lavish benefits.
Federal employees skated through the 2008-2010 recession almost completely unscathed — their ranks even grew — and now they get a paid 2 weeks off, and the gnashing of teeth and whining is deafening. Try being in the private sector in 2009, when layoffs and pay cuts were the norm. Into every life some rain must fall, and, for the most part, federal employees are given very generous umbrellas, at the expense of the rest of us.
or people with a desire to work in/talent for things that aren’t done in the private sector.
another fun generalization to make is that everybody who works in the private sector cares about money over everything else.
Of both are generalizations, and both have a lot of truth to them.
Lots of pathological hatred of federal employees and contractors being spewed around here. “Lavish benefits”. Haha, where do you get this stuff? Did USA Jobs not get back to you guys about your applications? Sounds like the compassionate conservatism we’re used to. My neighbor, a young CDC contractor making 35k, must be such a loser to not have 3 week’s salary saved up. I guess she should have been a finance major instead of going to school for public health. She could have managed a hedge fund and really contributed to society, instead of being a leach. Good call, republicans. It must be a bitter pill to swallow seeing the GOP achieve literally nothing from this stunt and get exactly what it deserves- further loathing from the American electorate.
Benefits include more than cash wages, footy. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people either do not know this or pretend it is not so.
Contractors do not get benefits. Even the Gov’t has caught on to that one.
I wasn’t referring to cash wages. What are the “lavish benefits” you’re referring to?
Yes, like the “lavish” benefits I received from the Veterans Administration Hospital, which didn’t even include an option for dental insurance (not even if I paid for them myself). Apparently, dental health isn’t important.
My benefits in the private sector are much better now.
Kindly define “lavish” for us. Be specific so we’re all clear on this subject.
He won’t. It’s part of the conservative delusion that federal employees are lazy bureaucrats who make boat loads of money and enjoy “lavish benefits.” Right.
Think about what you are saying. Positions at NASA, CDC, NIH are sinecures for people who can’t make it in the private sector? That’s absurd. You are at the very least guilty of overgeneralizing. Lots of people who work for the federal government choose to do so because they want to be of service to their country. There are economic and professional tradeoffs (lower salary vs. increased security, unique opportunities vs. extra red tape and restrictions on things like job-related travel), but it is insulting and wrong to say that federal government workers are there because they can’t get another job.
people join the army because they couldn’t make it as hitmen for the mafia or drug cartels.
The problem is that you all think these jobs and entities need to be run by government.
another problem is that i haven’t seen anyone provide a good plan as to how they could all be privatized. basic research rarely bring profits, and if it does, it’s often done by stifling further innovation (patenting basic processes). it can be argued the gov’t should run the fundamental research whose findings can then be used by the private sector to make everyone better off. some gambles are too risky for companies. they’re not going to spend billions on something without a good chance of making a profit. the gov’t can (of course, we can argue about whether or not it should).
If you haven’t seen plans and writings on how that would work, I imagine you haven’t been looking very hard. Patents are government. And they do stifle innovation.
“they’re not going to spend billions on something without a good chance of making a profit.”
Pharmaceutical companies do this all the time (and it shouldn’t be that expensive but thanks to over regulation….).
that’s true, i don’t do much research on privatization of current gov’t functions. pharmaceutical companies make billions. sure, not all there research makes money, but they don’t do research that has no chance of making money. and a lot of that money they make is in part thanks to gov’t regulations (drug import rules, for example).
do you include the armed forces/police and fire depts in those entities?
Police and fire? Sure. Undecided about military. But at least these entities are constitutionally appropriate functions of government.
let’s not forget the constitution was written 200 years ago, things were slightly different, and that it wasn’t meant to be an all encompassing document. i doubt a single founding father would expect today’s country to be run with the same federal gov’t they set up.
We will have to agree to disagree on that. I think the founding fathers would be appalled at how large the federal government is.
i’m sure they would be appalled at how we live nowadays. and not just at our gov’t. population densities, civil rights, noise and pollution. they would probably rather go back to their good ol’ days, and our bureaucracy would not be the reason.
Well now that seems to be a bit of an overgeneralization. All this talk about the private sector vs. the public sector is just as divisive as (and perhaps mirrors) our current vitriolic political climate.
The truth is that the two can’t exist without one another. Government, though clunky at times, is generally very good when it comes to laying the groundwork with research and infrastructure (can you say the Internet, federal highway system, space program and health research?). The private sector, though concerned only with profit, is able to take advantage of government investments to provide things we all want like iPhones, tomatoes in January, commercial space travel (coming soon!) and of course, Viagra.
Wow.
I simply to try to point out that gov’t and the private sector mutually benefit from one another and all you have to contribute is an apparently snarky “wow”? Pardon my naivete – I guess the world (or at least this country) IS that black and white for some people.
Nope. It was warranted by your snarky comment implying that the private sector has only provided us with trivial wants, and not needs. That was on top of yet again, not considering the fact that private sector has/and may have done those things you mentioned even better than the government. Furthermore, in far more cases, the great things the private sector has done has been in spite of the government, not because of it. So, yes, “wow” was very much appropriate.
My apologies for an attempt at levity. I was actually dead serious about the first three examples, though I may be 102 before I can afford a trip on the Virgin Galactic
The Viagra example was a bit of a cheap shot, I admit, but seemed more funny than “male pattern baldness” which I once heard actually gets more private sector research $ than HIV/AIDS since that’s where the market is. In the spirit of equal time, let me mention how the clunky government once reportedly gave researchers at the University of New Hampshire $700,000 to study methane emissions from dairy cows. I could go on.
My underlying message is unchanged – the private sector needs gov’t and vice versa. Next time I’ll be sure to insert an emoticon where needed to be more clear.
That would be very helpful.
Thanks for pointing that out. I chose to work for the federal government for a few reasons – an opportunity to help veterans, to work with some of the finest neurologists in the country, and to conduct valuable research in the area of rehabilitation after brain injuries and stroke. I had no problem getting job offers in the private sector!! While I no longer work for the VA, I value the experience I gained and the contributions I was able to make in helping many patients.
Standards? You mean the same standards that helped get us into this fine economic mess we’re in?
What I would really like to say to you won’t make it past the DM editor, but I’m sure you can fill in the blanks on your own. I am a federal employee. I took a 50% pay cut to join the federal government. I have more demanding performance standards in the gov’t than I did in private practice, and my health/dental/vision benefits were much, much better in the private sector. I work in a terrible location and never have enough resources to perform my job efficiently, so I end up doing a lot of crap work that I would never do in the private sector. Moreover, I work with a group of very talented, hard working people who could make significantly more if they left the government. They work every bit as hard as anyone I know in the private sector and make a lot of personal sacrifices to do their jobs. Oh, and my office laid off (i.e. “fired”) 15 people last year. Before you start throwing around insults, you should gather a few facts.
Most of the anti-govnt. folks around here don’t care about facts. They seem to be pure idealogues who live in a fantasy world little different than that of the far-left Utopians.
Why did you leave something that paid twice as much? Love of country?
Because I wanted to have a mission. I was tired of being a hired gun for entities that I did not like or respect. Also, I didn’t want to develop business (I’m a terrible salesman), and I wanted to work in an environment where my coworkers work for more than a paycheck/ proffit share. I make more than most federal employees, and I consider myself well compensated, even if I do make much less than I could.
I like your assumption that all Federal employees live paycheck to paycheck. If they do, maybe that’s a problem they should address…
I’m sure you just missed the reference to savings that needed to be dipped into? That isn’t living paycheck to paycheck.
I did overlook that actually. Though one should have an emergency fund that is not necessarily “savings”. And so what’s the big deal then if they used savings during this time? They put it right back in and take their 1% pay increase with them.
This was actually my point. They will get to replenish the savings/emergency fund/whatever that they had to dip into during the shutdown. What a horrible waste of taxpayer funds.
Did I say “all”?
And yeah, quite frankly all employers, the federal government included, should pay a living wage, but that’s a different issue to send conservatives into apoplectic fits.
Well, you certainly didn’t say “some”. And that’s hilarious. Federal employees, with all the benefits, do alright. Give me a break. And no offense, but you clearly have no idea how business economics work.
I sure hope the snark in this post was directed at those that put federal workers in that position and not at the workers themselves, who had nothing to do with it and would have rather been at work in the first place. Whether it looked like it would be different this time or not, the public servants did not deserve a pay cut while partisan politics worked itself out.
I am torn on the issue of back pay. No, it isn’t the worker’s fault, and I certainly understand how the vast majority of them are dependent on their paychecks. But, the fact remains that they are being paid for work they didn’t perform. Further, the government didn’t save a nickel by shutting down, so what was the point in the first place. And to add some fuel to the fire, I do get a little pissed when the furloughed workers tell me they are entitled to thier back pay. This is a complex issue, and there is no easy answer.
Is that just for federal employees or can I stop paying daycare fees for days my children are absent?
Not even close to a good example. Try again.
Why? There is an expectation of pay (on the worker’s part) for a service that goes unperformed because I did not send my children to school.
If a worker has an expectation of pay and is a contracted employee, than why is it his or her fault that the employer has – without warning – decided to shut down the business for a few weeks?
Not being one’s fault does not equal entitlement to pay.
Okay, then I don’t have to pay my daycare providers for days I don’t send them if contracts et al mean nothing.
That’s an awful analogy. But feel free to not pay your daycare providers.
Nah, I believe in back pay for federal employees, so I’ll be paying my daycare providers as well.
The better analogy using your example would be to look at who is providing the service.
You are getting a service (your kids are taken care of and not left in the wilderness) from the daycare, and this is what you have agreed to pay for. That service exists whether or not you send your kids, and therefore you need to pay for it. If, however the service shut down (i.e. the daycare won’t let you send your kids) then I agree you shouldn’t have to pay.
Similarly, the government is getting a service from the workers. The workers are available to try to provide this service and deserve to be paid. (Similar to the daycare service being available to you even if you chose not to use it.) If they don’t show up (e.g. go on strike, sleep through their alarm, etc…) then the service CANNOT be provided and they should not get paid. If, however, the government prevents them from having the opportunity to do their service (like you keeping your kids at home) why should they not still get paid?
Just my 2 cents (furloughed or otherwise)
I absolutely believe that the workers deserve their back pay. For may of them, the work they didn’t do is going to now have to get done as catch up along with their regular responsibilities. The individuals bear no responsibility for the fact that they couldn’t work, and deserve their contracted reimbursement. How would any of us like it if we were told that we had a mandatory unpaid vacation for an unknown length of time, even with the prospect of getting the money back later?
As for your question about what the point was, the answer is that there was no point. It was all political grandstanding and a bunch of narcissistic (prophylactically edited by author) having a pissing contest to force their beliefs on others. It was clear from the outset that this would have ZERO impact on the ACA. And yes, all sides are implicated in this.
Yet another example of the stupidity and self absorbed hubris of our elected leaders.
“How would any of us like it if we were told that we had a mandatory unpaid vacation for an unknown length of time, even with the prospect of getting the money back later”
In the private sector, I would look for another job or hang my own shingle. It is up to me to have a marketable skill and to find a way to put it to use to earn a living.
If my private employer closed up shop permanently or temporarily through no fault of my own, I am not entitled to pay for yet to be peformed work. Yes, it would suck and I would be very unhappy and stressed. But, to put it nicely, it irks me when that analysis gets twisted when the employer is public.
But the fact remains that the private sector is different from the public, whether or not you feel this is the best model, it is what we have right now. It’s not like there is a huge market for some of the furloughed workers (take the CDC epidemiologists for example) who could simply hop to another company. The purpose of and services provided by the public and private sector can be very different, and there is not always easy overlap between the two.
“If my private employer closed up shop permanently or temporarily through no fault of my own, I am not entitled to pay for yet to be peformed work.”
Actually, if you negotiated a better employment contract you would be.
Unfortunately there are no unions in my profession. We only get paid if we produce.
Let’s have a better discussion. Employment contracts exist for many many non-unionized jobs…
Yes, but very few have such favorable provisions. Employees generally don’t have enough leverage to demand payment for unperformed work.
“It was clear from the outset that this would have ZERO impact on the ACA.”
That is a huge overstatement. Even many Senate democrats were considering a delay of the medical device tax in these negotiations. That, at least, was a real possibility.
Tactically, what the Repubs did was stupid, because major tinkering with the ACA is inevitable as the exchanges don’t work and the individual mandate kicks in within a few short months. This is the most predicable train wreck in a long time. I can’t understand why the Repubs don’t just let it happen. Not to mention that several aspects of the law have already been waived/delayed by the imperialist president.
I’m not sure it’s that huge of an overstatement. he ACA had already been funded, and while there may have been a slow down in implementation, it would not have stopped it from happening. The horse was out of the barn on that one by the time this all went down. It was an attempt to strong arm through threats, not a real way to work against the bill they wanted defunded.
Off to work for me….
Yes, it is quite astounding that after a really bad roll-out of the federal sites that the ACA is actually more popular than before the rollout. Why? Because the only bigger disaster in town is the Republican Party.
“I can’t understand why the Repubs don’t just let it happen.”
Because they are operating under the leadership of wingnuts. You know, the ones all snuggled up in the Confederate flag, while people shout at Obama to put down his Koran. Their goal of this mess wasn’t related to less government or tossing the ACA, it was to put egg on Obama’s face. That’s why.
Ah, and there it is.
Perhaps the party needs to examine why as a group they keep exalting people with such similar traits. No these 2 stooges don’t represent the whole party, but why are rational people being drowned out by this type of circus on a regular basis? Or maybe when it comes to votes they realize unfortunately these antics are helpful. Appealing to the lowest of the low (like this stunt) works for them.
Think those two would have loved to see Herman Cain as President right now? Nah, I’m sure they would have switched to the Democrat Party and started spouting the virtues of big government. I have no doubt that if Joe Biden was president, they would have jumped on board for ObamaCare.
Herman Cain? Seriously? I’m sorry, but if you do don’t think there are racial underpinnings to much of the hatred for Obama that go beyond policy, you are incredibly naive and have spent little time around rural Southern white folk.
Yes, Herman. The point was that these “two” would have supported him even though he is black. We are talking about members of congress, not random folks in the rural south. There was SO much hatred directed at Bush. Why was that? I imagine it was because people hated his policies. Point is, they would hate these policies no matter who put them out. To make it an issue of race, one would have to believe that they would support these policies if the president was white. And if you believe that, you are the naive one.
Those “two”, by their own statements, are responding to the rage of their constituents, the vast majority of whom are white. To joke that they would be for Obama’s policies if he were white is an obvious simplification; it’s the degree and character of the opposition. And where were these people when Medicare Part D was being debated and implemented and Dick Cheney was saying deficits don’t matter?
“To make it an issue of race, one would have to believe that they would support these policies if the president was white. And if you believe that, you are the naive one.”
Yes and no, I think. There is opposition and then there is opposition. The tactics and tone of rhetoric employed against this president seem especially strident. Others may disagree.
“And where were these people when Medicare Part D was being debated and implemented and Dick Cheney was saying deficits don’t matter?”
You won’t get an argument from me there. But hypocrisy resides on both sides of the isle, unfortunately.
Does everyone forget the vitriol and disrespect show Bush on a regular basis? Maybe we see history differently, but I think he got it worse than Obama. Does racism exist? Sure. But I think when it comes to politics, it is so miniscule and only used when one wants to divert the real discussion at hand.
Do you think Democrats would have questioned President Cain’s race? (well, his such-and-such ancestor was white so he’s not really black!) His national origin? (I heard he’s actually an Italian mafioso put in office to profit from government corruption! Godfather’s Pizza, right?!)
Something about Obama brought the absolute nastiest, vilest, aspects of the Right out into the open, and I don’t necessarily think it was his policies.
And following up to myself – do you think there would have been “birthers” for President Biden? That Joe Biden was part of some secret Catholic conspiracy to shred the Constitution? Somehow I severely doubt it.
“But I think when it [race] comes to politics, it is so miniscule and only used when one wants to divert the real discussion at hand.”
That’s preposterous. If you really believe that, you simply haven’t been to many of the so-called town hall meetings held by Republicans outside of urban areas. A fear of a less “white” America is a huge factor in their politics. I know the actual elected officials try to downplay that (most of them anyway). Add to race the religious factor: a majority of those who identify as supporters of the tea party believe Obama is a Muslim (with the corresponding implication that being so would disqualify him from the office) and that he hates Christians.
In response to Biden and a fear of a Catholic conspiracy: well, back in the day, there WERE folks who were scared that President Kennedy was controlled by papists in Rome. But anti-Catholic paranoia has mostly fizzled out.
So, why were the writers of the Constitution so intent on a President having to be born in the U.S.? What’s the big deal about where you are born? I can see having a residency requirement, e.g. having resided in the U.S. for at least X years, or a proficiency test (whoops, that wouldn’t have worked for certain of our Presidents), but who cares whether someone was born in England or Japan or Bolivia if they immigrated here at 1 year of life?
“a majority of those who identify as supporters of the tea party believe Obama is a Muslim”
Are you pulling statistics out of your ass again?
“Are you pulling statistics out of your ass again?”
Nope. But just because you don’t believe it doesn’t mean I’m obligated to do the work of an Internet search for you. That said, you can easily find mainstream surveys and exit polls that indicate 30% of Republicans IN GENERAL believe Obama is a Muslim. Of course, those must be made-up because they’re from the lamestream media.
“But anti-Catholic paranoia has mostly fizzled out.”
I wouldn’t be surprised to see it make a comeback, given some of the statements the new pope has made.
30% = majority?
“30% = majority?”
My majority comment was about those who self-identify as tea party supporters. The 30% number is for all Republicans.
Yes. Completely agree. The Affordable Care Act is a total disaster. You should keep on believing everything that Fox News tells you.
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/
Not.
The “point” of the shutdown was not to save money, but not to be in violation of the Antideficiency Act, which states that the government can’t incur costs without appropriations.
You’re right, federal workers are being paid for work they didn’t perform. And I don’t know a single one that feels good about that. That doesn’t change the fact that federal workers (not to mention the contractors, etc, who won’t be made whole) shouldn’t have to pay a substantial sum of money for politicians to throw temper tantrums.
“That doesn’t change the fact that federal workers (not to mention the contractors, etc, who won’t be made whole) shouldn’t have to pay a substantial sum of money for politicians to throw temper tantrums.”
If that is a risk they can’t afford, then they should seek employment in the private sector. I agree with your statement, but it does not mean they are entitled to back pay.
Isn’t it the case that it’s some of the contractors–people in the private sector–who won’t be made whole?
I’m going out on a limb here and wonder aloud how many people who are staunchly opposed to the furloughed folks getting their back pay, are themselves salaried employees who spend time during the work day surfing the Web, commenting on blogs, shopping, etc.
I am not staunchly opposed to furloughed workers getting their back pay. However, I disagree with their position that they are entitled to it b/c the furlough isn’t their fault.
Private sector that works with the federal gov’t (contractors/consultants) want workers on those accounts to use PTO days for the shutdown. If they do so, they won’t be getting that back, but if they don’t, they could face reprisals for not being team players when it comes time to discuss raises/bonuses.
Winnona Park Stud wonders if you’ve ever taken a two-week vacation, and if so, whether on your return to work you resumed your normal workload? Many people return from vacations to find lots of work waiting for them, and though they don’t enjoy it, must play catch-up. Very few people are told they must take a vacation of indefinite duration, yet remain ready during their vacation to return to work at some unspecified point in the future. Backpay for all. Disclaimer: Winnona Park Stud does not work the federal government, but does enjoy interstates, national parks, a functioning federal judiciary and knowing there are people who, through their daily work, minimize the likelihood that Winnona Park Stud will die from a contagious illness before meeting his destiny at the end of a gun held by a visibly angry man who returned home from work unexpectedly and to his wife’s great surprise.
That’s Number Wang!
I’m looking forward to reading through this thread and seeing a bunch of people’s opinions about politics changed. Because that’s what always happens when people discuss politics online.
Ha! But it is still fun to talk about! And truly, if people aren’t open to other ideas, then why talk about anything, really?
If I need a good dose of entitlement politics with a healthy dose of I got mine and tough for you, I can always count on Decatur. It’s always nice when the horrible people all cluster together in easily identifiable compounds that I can stay the heck away from.
Thank you TeeRuss. And, I must add that I know many, many federal workers and they are some of the most civic-minded, ethical and hardworking people I know. If we make the federal government an undesirable employer (for instance, by subjecting employees to random periods without pay) then only the most desperate-for-work among us will accept positions with the CDC, Justice Department, DOD, etc. I am glad it is my friend from law school working on social security disability appeals rather than someone who couldn’t find work in the private sector and went to the federal government as a last resort. I want good, smart, ethical, hard-working people in those positions and I want them to be paid.
yeah, but then it’d be hard to talk about how the gov’t sucks at doing anything, especially compared to the private sector, if it was allowed to hire people with similar salaries than in the private sector.
‘s true.
Over the course of my career (2 careers, actually) I’ve been employed by both profit and non-profit organizations in the private sector and by a federal agency. (Full-time employment as an adult–not counting part-time/summer work during HS and college) In the private sector, I worked for tiny mom-and-pop companies and a large one that was subsidiary of a large corporation. And I had occasion to work very closely for extended time periods with teams in large (Fortune 100) corporations. There is inefficiency, incompetence and waste everywhere, to varying degrees. And there are smart, hardworking, conscientious folks trying to be thrifty and get things done right, everywhere. By far, the places where I observed the most inefficiency, incompetence, laziness, waste, and petty theft, were the large, private-sector corporations. Labyrinthine bureaucracies. And talk about “impossible to get fired.” It was ludicrous. During my time as a federal employee, I saw plenty of complacency as well, but also incredible talent and energy, especially when it came to figuring out ways to work within whatever boneheaded directives were coming out of the upper echelons and still achieve the mission. (In the private companies, in contrast, much of that kind of energy and wherewithal was actually directed toward self-promotion, rather than the mission.)
“I’m glad that the government shutdown has ended, and I’m relieved that we didn’t default on our debt. But I want to be clear: I am NOT celebrating tonight.
According to the S&P index, the government shutdown had delivered a powerful blow to the U.S. economy. By their estimates, $24 billion has been flushed down the drain for a completely unnecessary political stunt.
$24 billion dollars. How many children could have been back in Head Start classes? How many seniors could have had a hot lunch through Meals on Wheels? How many scientists could have gotten their research funded? How many bridges could have been repaired and trains upgraded?
The Republicans keep saying, “Leave the sequester in place and cut all those budgets.” They keep trying to cut funding for the things that would help us build a future. But they are ready to flush away $24 billion on a political stunt.
So I’m relieved, but I’m also pretty angry.”
—Sen. Elizabeth Warren
Well said.
The epitome of political spin nonsense.
What’s nonsense about it?
It comes from a libtard. Hence, nonsense.
Rush said it, I believe it, that settles it!
Got me again, J_T! You are so smart. I can’t even tie my shoes without checking with Rush first! As a libertarian, I just LOVE everything this man says. I certainly rely on him for every thought and opinion I have. Good job in realizing that! Wow, you are so smart. Really, I am impressed with your level of intelligence. No, really. So impressed.
Great question, Bulldog! Glad you asked. Let’s see. This administration has been in office for almost 5 years now. Our economy continues to grow at an anemic rate. Our unemployment rate is still over 7%. And this does not take into consideration all the individuals who have taken part-time jobs or have left the workforce completely. Millions less are employed today than when this president took office. The median income has gone down in this country. There has been a staggering rise in the amount of food stamp/welfare recipients. We have added TRILLIONS to the deficit. So yes, a politician talking about hungry kids not getting fed because of 24 billion that may have been lost in the economy, is not only nonsense, but laughable.
“We believe that to date, the shutdown has shaved at least 0.6% off of annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth, or taken $24 billion out of the economy.”
Source: Standard & Poors
What about those Food Stamp cuts?
How about long overdue Infrastructure/Flood control repairs?
$24 Billion dollars could have bought a heck of a lot of publicly-owed windmills to supply clean energy (and for Tea Partiers to tilt at)
We could have built about 1,200 high schools.
We could have paid for about four million Pell Grants.
We could have funded the budget of the entire University of Georgia System.
We could have green-lighted more than twelve thousand National Institutes of Health research grants.
+1
Mic sounds angry, Angry, ANGRY!!
Silly Mic.
You’d do better to turn some of that anger at the silly GOP that took $24 billion-with-a-B out of our economy for a temper tantrum.
Yes, I know this has been asked before. Several times even. But it’s not so easy to search past threads on this site, especially when you need the information NOW, soooooooo…
We are looking for a quality, honest, independent (non-dealership) mechanic. Specifically someone who can read a “Service Engine Soon” code on a 2010 Altima without gouging us for doing so and, preferably, honest enough to tell us what really needs to be done. Obviously, we are more concerned about price now that the City is threatening to slash our little, unrenovated home’s value
I’ve had great experiences with Quantum Mechanics on Talley Street. Honest guys, and while not the cheapest, certainly a fair price for the work.
I agree with everything Ted says about Quantum.
My experience as well, on every count. They are happy to have a frank conversation about what’s worth fixing and what’s not.
Yet another endorsement for Quantum: Knowledgeable, friendly, fairly priced.
Brian at Intown Auto Care in Oakhurst (next to Mescalitos) is fantastic for this stuff. I swear I’ve brought one of our cars in there at least a dozen times over the years and only been charged for it 3-4 times. I’m not quite sure how they stay in business, honestly.
Same experience, and they’ll stay on the tricky issues until they get it right.
Intown Auto is great at that very issue. And, reasonable in costs.
I’m gonna have to disagree on the place next to Mezcalito’s . My alternator went out last Thursday. I pulled into their parking lot and one employee (that was on his cell phone) ran around to the back of the building. The other employee could not be bothered to come out of the main office and even look at my car which I had to leave running because I knew it wouldn’t start again. I took my car to Summit. They were nice, accommodating (since I had no appointment) and had it repaired in one day.
You were probably at the Laundromat. The garage is on the other side of Mezcalitos.
I know the difference between a laundromat and auto mechanic.
How about the difference between someone being serious and someone messing with you?
Nope…paying for auto repairs and bad customer service makes me cranky.
I had a couple of pretty infuriating experiences with Intown myself, although in fairness they were several years ago. One started a sequence of events that wound up costing me a lot of money (not to mention inconvenience, including having to call a tow truck at 6pm on a mid-December Friday, and sit in my client’s parking lot in Alpharetta until it arrived hours later). [Internal threadjack: why is it that every empty tow truck you see is traveling 75 mph on surface streets, and when you call one it takes three hours to arrive?] Can’t say the end result was Intown’s fault, exactly, but if they’d come through in the first place, the rest of it would never have happened. The other time, they diagnosed a problem they said would cost close to $400 to fix. It didn’t make sense to me, so I sought a second opinion and the dealer–the DEALER–diagnosed and fixed it for about $40.
“the dealer–the DEALER–diagnosed and fixed it for about $40.”
I think dealership service departments get a bad rap. I used to only use indie shops, but for the last ten years have used only the dealersip (Nissan and Mazda). I’ve never had a problem with them (compared to the frequent issues I had with various indies) and find them competitive on pricing on most things. And I can frequently get a short-term loaner from the dealer, something you never see with indies.
I’ve never had a dealer service dept willing to engage in a conversation about how worthwhile a particular non-critical repair might be on an older vehicle. Also, parts are usually top-dollar. (Independent mechanics often know where to get re-engineered or 3rd party parts, which can save considerable $.)
Pete’s Import Garage. There have been a couple of instances when I have asked “are you sure this is everything” when he told me what I owe. Always does great work too.
I believe Dad’s Emissions in Patel Plaza on Church will read the code for you and give you a printout of what it means free of charge.
Dad’s emissions also has a spot at Pure which is even more convenient for some of us. They have the computer hookup that might be able to pull your code as well. We are also fans of Summit on East Ponce but I would call ahead because they like you to make an appointment.
And if you haven’t already done it, try taking your gas cap off and on yourself before taking it in, since that is sometimes the reason those sensors go off.
Dad’s Emissions would be a great name for a band.
This is a potential source of friction in my household. My partner takes her Honda to Intown. Brian takes great care of it, and I’ll second Tee Russ’s comment about not getting charged to check things out that turn out to be nothing. I, on the other hand, take my Subaru to Summit. They do a great job.
+1 for Summit.
Most chain auto-parts stores (Autozone, O’Reilly, etc.) will do a service code reader for free.
Decatur Pure. The bonus is, since you have an Altima, the guys are ex-dealer factory trained Nissan techs.
Whoa, thanks for all the quick responses! Looks like we have at least 5 different places recommended and will start checking with them about availability.
[And thanks, DM, for letting me ask this retread question. I swear, I did try to search for the past threads first but I needed a quick answer and I wasn't coming up with anything!]
Check Sonny’s Service Center on Aldrich just past DeKalb Farmers Market
We are fans of Sonny’s. He’s honest and reliable and competent.
+1
Summit.
I hope Deb’s comment on the moratorium won’t be lost in the FFAF fray. At what point are the taxes so high that people like Deb start bolting in droves? If there are many left.
So she didn’t feel she was getting value from her tax dollars, maybe because she has no children in the school system. Alternatively we could reduce taxes significantly and see what happens to the quality of the schools. In a few years people with children will leave Decatur, restaurants and shops will close, property values will drop and Deb can repurchase her house for less than she just sold it for and pocket the difference as a retirement fund.
The value proposition is not that simple. I would love to drive a Mercedes and would feel that I was getting excellent value for the money. But I don’t have that kind of money to spend, regardless of the value received in exchange. My tax bill became the same. Of course I got great value for that money, but it was more than I could afford to pay. Like Deb, I moved to Oakhurst as a single, childless professional planning to retire there. Never occurred to me that within 14 years my tiny, mostly unimproved cottage would become unaffordable to stay in. The decision to move was wrenching.
Well said, and funny you used a Mercedes as an example. My brother used to buy things he couldn’t afford because it was “a great deal.” I used to always say to him, “just because they are selling a $50,000 Mercedes for $30,000, doesn’t mean you should buy it if you can’t afford $30,000!”
My mom has never met a sale she doesn’t like.
Mrs. Malady keeps telling me she’s saving a fortune everytime she buys a pair of shoes. So how come I’m not rich?
I’m glad you are still lurking around here though
Sorry you had to move, STG. For the curious, could you estimate what percentage your tax bill increased over that time.
My city tax bill almost doubled in 14 years. With no reason to expect that trend was going to change.
that’s about a 5% increase per year, about double inflation over that time period.
The millage rate changed very little; most of that increase was due to the increase in assessed value.
I never claimed any different.
If you’re like most people, though, you would have complained if the value of your home did not increase over time.
I just wanted to put a personal face on the moratorium discussion. I really feel badly for the young couple that bought my home for the schools. They are planning to “pop the top” and now could be unable to expand for their family of 3. Also, ecomic realities! As a pediatric speech pathologist, I make a good living at a large hospital. But haven’t had a raise in years, because I’m “maxed out” and now hours are being cut diet to effects of ACAct. There is value in Decatur, for sure, but folks like STG and myself live within our means. I agree with her, it was a gut wrenching decision. The moratorium will have unforeseen consequences.
“I really feel badly.” Really? I think the family of three will live quite nicely in the little cottage and maybe even learn to love the smaller space.
She said expand for a family of three, not expand from a family of three.
Though even if she did write what you thought, it could be valid. Imagine: “Mom, Dad, stop that noise! I can’t sleep.”
Sluggish editing – I caught my misunderstanding and completely changed my comment rather than ask for a delete. Looks like your comment BethB squeezed in before I made the changes but thanks for noting. Little prepositions for versus from sure make a difference.
Well then clearly we need a law to force them to learn to love a smaller space.
Maybe. But it would be nice for them to have the option to add on to their house, as you and so many others were able to do.
Possibly, but that is not what they expected, planned for or paid for. And possibly you and I and our other neighbors could learn to live with 1/2 of our current clothes, 1/3 of our current books, 75% of our current trees or most importantly 25% of our current frozen yogurt and coffee shops.
Agree it’s not what they planned on but do any of you think they will never be able to make changes to the structure? My first cottage for two was 1100 sq ft and served us well for ten years as we morphed to a family of five. We all know it can be done but it should be by choice or lack of resources and not by external mandates.
I personally think the moratorium is silly and an intrusion but I also don’t like the rapid streetscape changes. I didn’t like the front yard marketing conversion I observed when the like-color, well dressed couple was encouraging the offspring of the elderly to sell and the coming soon sign went up the next week. And those coming-soon to sold signs with no listing every in MLS of FMLS are messing up the comparables for everyone while saving fees for the brokers. Another sore spot – urrrgh.
Forgive my ignorance, but tell me more about this: “And those coming-soon to sold signs with no listing every in MLS of FMLS are messing up the comparables for everyone while saving fees for the brokers. Another sore spot – urrrgh.” I don’t quite understand how Thrive and others work and the relationship with MLS/FMLS. We’re keeping a tight (daily) eye on the market and have been for about a year, and I’m clearly not up-to-speed on the tricks of the trade. Insight appreciated.
I am not an appraiser but have a family member who is so I’m being very general with my answer.
Brokers pay a fee to the multiple listing services like FMLS to list details about property for sale. Appraisers use data from FMLS to gain information like listing price and selling price that is then used as comparables for refinance and new loans. So for example if three similar homes near yours drew a high price but were not entered in FMLS, then the new buyer may not get an appraisal high enough to get approved for a loan at your selling price.
There’s a broker powerpoint going around the list serves today that uses FLMS data to make points against the proposed moratorium. Pretty skewed data if multiple quick sales in the past couple of years have bypassed full disclosure in FMLS.
What is the incentive not to list things in the MLS?
The broker avoids the fee. Of course, the missing higher priced sales eventually catch up with the brokers and interfere with the ability for them to sell so I’ve been told that “most” are “now” entering in FLMS but that doesn’t undo the missing year(s) of data.
Of course sales data is also available from the county. So while appraisers do typically look at the sources you cited, a savvy owner, buyer or agent can easily track down data for off the grid sales.
The broker presentation making the rounds should be taken for what it is – slanted, skewed and you could say misrepresented data designed to preserve broker income.
Disclosure: While we did not tear down and build, we bought a house that was built on top of a teardown 5 years earlier. I’m against the moratorium on construction and for preserving trees.
The County data is typically delayed. FMLS is pretty more current.
OK, so Sharon you are just saying that the houses sell so easily (from “coming soon” signs) that the brokers don’t need to spend the money putting the properties in MLS, and then because appraisers use MLS the numbers are skewed? Got it.
i actually suspected that something else was going on– that perhaps Thrive (in particular) already identified buyers and had them buy the “tear down” and contract for the renovation with Thrive so Thrive could avoid broker fees on sales… or something… like I said, I couldn’t figure out why the properties weren’t hitting MLS. Decatur is such a unique market in Atlanta.
Steve – yes county data is delayed, but only a couple weeks – sales from the beginning of October already appear on Zillow and Trulia.
Oakhurst3 – Thrive and other builder often do what you suggest, and given the current market they do not have to use real estate agents, saving 5-7% on the transaction which can be shared by the seller, buyer and builder. Agents in Decatur this year are basically printing money. Other years they had to work hard for listings and sales, but not so this year.
Not sure about that. A place very near me closed and the sale price was not on the County database for at least 3 months.
M1: thanks for the info. Would you mind further enlightening me on the business plan of Thrive et al? Purely curious as a person who watches all real estate under 400k in Decatur as a hobby. What we have suspected is that it is a way for developers to avoid the banks and avoid tying up cash. (Understandable– I want to avoid the banks and keep my cash, too.) But how does it work? Developer identifies tear down and instead of buying it (using precious cash or bank credit), they already (?) have buyer in line and get the buyer to purchase with the proviso that the buyer must also borrow for the “renovation” and sign contract with developer? Just wondering logistically how it all works so developer ends up without risk/debt/bank. It appears from property records that in many/most recent cases, the developer never owned the property. I think it has proven to be a smart strategy and I’m curious as to the details of how it works. I’ve asked a couple of real estate agents and none of them could explain it.
I don’t know Thrive’s business plan. I do know that builders work with buyers in different ways – depending on the specifics of each situation. Sometimes a builder buys the property from the current owner and they may or may not have a new buyer identified or contracted. Sometimes the ultimate homeowner buys the property and contracts with a builder for the demo or renovation. There are pros and cons to each scenario for the builder and the ultimate owner. For example – buyers often do not have enough cash or cannot qualify for a loan to buy a tear down that won’t be rebuilt and ready to move into for a year; remember they usually have an existing mortgage. Or they simply prefer not to tie up their own money.
Nothing wrong with either option, just depends on what works for the parties involved.
As an aside, when markets are hot like Decatur is now, builders and agents knock on doors asking people if they would consider selling.
Oh, and if you asked agents and they can’t explain it then either they are bad agents or don’t want to tell you.
Nobody’s knocking on our door. I’m waiting for that knock. The one that says “You don’t have to do a thing, no repainting, no yard clean-up, no “staging” of your home. Just sign here, call the movers and Goodwill to pick up your stuff, and we’ll give you market price.
AHID: If your market price is under $400k and preferably under $350, consider this your knock. We are looking for a house in that price range and we actually prefer that it not be painted, staged and planted for us– we want to do that for ourselves in our new home. I am quite serious. If you are, I’d love to give you my email address.
Oakhurst3. My home pretty much fits that criteria and we are looking to sell. I would love your email.
Oakhurst3 and Walrus – you guys just saved 6% on the transaction. Cheers!
Walrus: Fantastic- look forward to talking with you!
Walrus: fantastic- look forward to talking with you. My email address is being moderated but should be up in a bit.
Oh, that moderation….
Walrus: I think I can do it like this and make it without moderation: petersloft at gmail dot com.
Not taking sides on Deb’s comments, just want to point out that this is going to get MUCH more widespread as our enrollment explodes. Everyone was so focused on the cost of expanding the school buildings to accomodate this, but it’s the annual operating costs that will really drive budget (and therefore tax) increases.
Think about it – doubling the number of students means nearly doubling the instructional costs (there can be some savings due to scale, but not much).
Our taxes WILL go up at least 50% within 5 years to continue to cover these costs, assuming no commercial annexation. My taxes will increase by at least $5,000 per year, I’m pretty much convinced. Everyone can do the math for their own situation.
Agree taxes will go up. The only way to slow down property tax increases is to stop adding multi family developments. It adds kids to the enrollment quickly and stresses the system. It’s already so cost prohibitive to add single family that it is self limiting. There are downsides but with the large percentage of the tax dollar going to education no other way to keep increases in check
Check your stats. Surveys have shown that multi-family developments, at least here, don’t place an undue burden on the schools.
That is absolute nonsense
Check with the COD development department. They’ll show you the numbers.
That sounds like work. It’s easier just to yell “Nonsense!” about stats and facts that don’t fit your agenda.
I’ve been struggling with the contention that new multi-household housing is a boon to Decatur schools. New multi-household units are certainly a boon in terms of walkability, density, vibrant downtown, green issues. But when it comes to the school system, there’s two metrics to be considered:
- the percentage of households with children–clearly that’s low, i.e. revenue-generating
- the absolute count of children–anything more than zero is more children for the school system to find space for. At some point, it doesn’t matter how much revenue a unit is generating, the additional children mean new space must be built or converted from other space, our schools are larger, more teachers and staff must be hired, and more administrators will be hired to handle the increased number of students, staff, and children.
I believe tear downs to build larger houses will attract more families with multiple children than multi-family will, assuming the rent is high relative to the metro area. Maybe there should be a moratorium because of that (just kidding).
I’m probably looking at this simplistically but here’s how I’m thinking:
- Take a big lot downtown that has a business or parking lot on it: It has no children residing on it. If you replace it with 200 condo or rental units, then maybe 8 of the units will have children for a total of 10 children–a very low percentage of children compared to single household housing. But that’s still 10 more children, i.e. 1/2 to 1/3 of a classroom, for the school system to deal with.
- Now take a single household lot: If you replace a small traditional brick house or wood bungalow with a McMansion, you don’t change the number of children one way or the other. On average, that first home will house 2.2 children and the McMansion will too, the only difference being that the McMansion children are slightly more likely to go to private school.
I’m not against that 200 condo unit. In fact, I want to move to it. But I can see how the school system is concerned about the additional students it will bring. It’s not just an issue of per student tuition but also the space needed to house them and the changes that come with having larger vs. smaller schools.
That is not how the math works in Decatur, most of those houses were retired couples, singles, or gay couples without children. The new houses are 30 to 40 somethings with 2.2 children. When you have a nice Decatur street with 20 houses and only 6 children that becomes 10 old houses and 10 new houses with 25 children, the previously declining school population increases. Multiply that times 300 streets and it becomes an issue to be addressed!
Good point. So McMansions add to enrollment the most but condos and apartments add as well. Both types of increase are occurring. We just have to be clear that more housing units, of any sort, add more students. The students, whether they account for a low or high percentage of the occupants, have to be put somewhere. So our schools get larger and, until they are enlarged, their classrooms get more crowded.
The multifamily that is here now is a budget net positive for the school system (or so I’ve been told by those who should know), so I don’t know where you get that. It seems to me that it’s the single-family growth that is driving almost all of the school system growth in COD.
I agree that “single-family growth that is driving almost all of the school system growth in COD” but that doesn’t mean that multifamily housing will ameliorate the situation. That’s because, here in Decatur, multifamily housing structures usually don’t replace single family homes; they replace commerical lots or parking lots or unused space. We don’t subtract out any students from single family homes when we add multifamily housing; in fact, we add a few more. It’s the absolute counts of students that the school system has to find a seat for, regardless of what percentage they are of what type of housing.
From what I’ve heard, which may not be from stellar sources, CSD Central Office IS quite concerned about the additional students that will come with multifamily housing. Not because of the type of housing but because it’s one more increase source of increased enrollment which must be dealt with.
To be clear, I recognize that multifamily housing is a good thing for Decatur. And I recognize that over-enrollment is a better problem to have than under-enrollement. Real low enrollment can lead to a school system disappearing altogether. I just think it should be recognized that multifamily housing does increase enrollment and the students have to be put somewhere. (I’ll bet it’s going to be Westchester!)
Yes, of course in absolute numbers multifamily will increase enrollment, but it will also add greatly to the tax collections. Before the Artisan, for example the city got far less from that land than they get now. It didn’t get a corresponding bump in enrollment, not even close. The equation may change to some degree for rental property, but probably not much if these are going to be relatively expensive rentals.
I guess I’m under the impression that the breaking point right now for CSD is space for students, not tax revenues. Not that the tax revenues aren’t helpful but they don’t create space (yet).
But any increase in property taxes has to come from increases in property values, right? Isn’t there a state-wide 20 mill limit on property taxes for education, and aren’t we pretty close to that now?
I don’t know how to find this information as it applies to Decatur.
Decatur gets around that in the way it assesses property. While the rest of the state assesses at 40 percent of market value, Decatur assesses at 50 percent. So, our taxes are higher because of this “trick.”
So does that mean it’s legally possible assessments in Decatur could go to 60 percent of value or higher?
I don’t think so without the Legislature approving it.
I am lost in the intention of the moratorium. Is it to preserve the “charm” of Decatur or to stop the influx of larger families with small children to move here? Am I missing the goal?
For the former, I’ll admit – as my name suggests – that I’m not too attached to the idea of “historical preservation” of houses built in WWII, which the majority in Decatur are, correct? I realize that we should want to have a few to remind us of that period, but a living community grows and changes and the architecture is evident of that. I know we have to start somewhere with preserving communities, but I also don’t like to interfere with natural growth and change.
Second, as long as the schools stay in their current condition, they will come.
Just glad (?) we can’t afford to do any of the renovations we are planning. Hopefully, the moratorium will be over by then.
I believe, as a few others have speculated, that word got out much tougher restrictions are coming and the City was bombarded with applications from developers.
May have missed this in past week or so, but to put an end to the controversy swirling around the animals trimming the undergrowth at the cemetery recently, they were definitely goats not sheep. I asked one of them, “Are you guys sheep?” He replied, “naa-naa-naa.” So there.
Weren’t there both?
They were pretty close-cut and looked surprisingly goatish (or, ahem, “goatee”) to me.
Now, for the other Decatur Cemetery animal mystery… Where did the resident geese go on their latest field trip away from the pond? To Sam’s Club, the VA parking lot, Loehman’s Plaza? The Muscovy duck and his/her pal held down the fort while the geese took a two-week party flight.
The geese were furloughed.
Well, I sure as hell hope they don’t receive any back pay! Moochers.
I see some geese in that field by the Memorial Walmart every now and again (my son’s daycare is over thataways). Don’t know if it’s the same flock or not.
Another reason to not like WM.
Anybody been to Sobban (the new Korean Southern Diner on Clairemont) yet? If so, did you like it?
Fantastic. Very spicey so not for the timid eater. I’m not a fan of the desserts but they are quite unique!
Havn’t been, but there is a good review on Decatur Wine & Food Dude
http://www.decaturwineandfooddude.com/
Yes, it was delicious! I had Bulgogi over Kimchi Rice, a bit spicy (but that’s how I like it), and comfort in my belly. The husband who does not like to try new things was reluctant to like it, but ordered the Smoked Pork Belly lettuce wraps and fell in love. The best was what my girlfriend ordered…. the Korean Fried Chicken. It was deep fried heaven tossed in sweet chili ginger sauce. YUM.
The only problem we had was that my husband is allergic to shell fish, so he could not eat half the menu (including the fried chicken which is what he REALLY wanted) since they use the same fryer for everything. Hoping that will change.
Will the housing demolition moratorium apply to inflatable bouncy houses? Asking for a friend.
Mingei World Arts is reopening for 2 days this weekend in its new space in East Decatur Station. Please join us to celebrate our new chapter and Day of the Dead! We have lots of new merchandise and Mexican goodies, and we plan to be in a very festive mood! We will be there from 10am-9pm Saturday and from 12-6 on Sunday. Here’s a link to our latest email about the weekend.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs124/1102150261792/archive/1115283848662.html
We hope to see you there!
WRT the tree part of the moratorium, I’ve seen quite a few trees go in my neck of the woods and each of them have gone largely because they are near the end of their life. So, I’m sorry to see them go but understand that there’s nothing to be done.
What I don’t like is that I don’t see very many of them being replaced with similar trees. For example, I see a 4ft diameter oak cut down and a year later a crepe myrtle is planted. I really would like to see more effort put into providing a future tree canopy for the city.
Perhaps we need a kind of TreesDecatur effort to make sure that we’re doing the planting now to make sure we have this canopy later (or our kids do). I also think a community effort such as this would probably be more effective than most any city ordinance.
As someone who up until recently had a pair of 80+ y.o. crepe myrtles in his front yard, I will say that you might be surprised at just how much canopy they can provide if they aren’t mercilessly hacked back every year. (General gripe: There are so few people in this world who have any idea how to properly trim a crepe myrtle.)
That said, I agree with your overall point. If you’re cutting a tree down, replace it with something comparable.
“There are so few people in this world who have any idea how to properly trim a crepe myrtle”
Walter Reeves refers to it as “Crepe murder”.
I agree with Glockenspieler. We lived in Avondale many years before moving to Decatur. I will have to admit they did a much better job of planting trees on public land than what I have seen in Decatur. I would love to see Decatur prove me wrong here, but so far I think Avondale is more of a tree friendly city than Decatur. All you Decaturites that like to dis on Avondale can take that as a challenge if you want
I do not want to see more restrictions for homeowners, but instead would like to see incentives for planting trees and education on selection and care. I look up and down my street and see the strip between the sidewalk and bike lane that would be perfect for some trees. For example, wouldn’t it be spectacular this time of year to drive by a row of maples when you come into our city from atlanta? Instead of a stronger tree ordinance for individuals, why not be proactive in encouraging us to plant and take care of high quality trees selected cohesively for the right spot( ie, what goes next under the power line, etc.) Have a weekend where the city helped with tree selection, get the trees at a discount since we would be buying them in bulk, mark the utility lines, and rent equipment to dig out the holes for those that want them. We could make it into a festival with the proceeds going for trees on public land. Just my 2 cents.
I’m in that situation right now, Glockenspieler. I have a tree that the arborist says has a 50 year lifespan in my yard which is now probably about 60+ years old. It’s lost some major limbs lately and is clearly dying. I’m looking for a comparable tree to replace it and so far have not found any good resources for recommendations on trees that would meet the requirements on my wishlist.
The qualities I’m looking for are: provides dappled shade (not heavy shade like a magnolia), reasonably drought-resistant and has a long lifespan. So far, I’m leaning towards replacing it with another maple variant, but would love suggestions.
Also, any suggestions for a reasonable tree removal service would be appreciated. I had 5 companies come out last week for quotes and they ranged from $595 to $1525 for the exact same service (cut tree, remove tree, grind stump).
The dappled shade is difficult. The problem with maples is that they have very shallow roots. This is why you actually never want them planted near sidewalks.
Pin oaks are pretty popular and great trees. Good drought tolerance, pretty long lived, disease resistant. Their shade isn’t heavy but I don’t think I would call it dappled.
Long needled pines are good but they go through a ‘weird look’ period. Their shade is pretty light. Pines have a bad rep as being easily damaged by storms, partly true but if sited so they aren’t standing all by themselves, they do just fine.
Of course, I’ve always liked tulip poplars, but then maybe I’m just a size queen.
New subject: Under train tunnel between Agnes Scott and Church Street. It is looking deplorable–filled with (non-artistic) graffiti. I want to see it revitalized because it (should be) a critical and safe travel pathway for ASC students, DHS students and the general population. Where should I start to get this cleaned up? Find an artist? Call the City? Get a partnership between CSD and ASC?
Great idea! At one point in the tunnel’s history, Color Wheel painted a huge mural.
I also don’t suppose it can be expanded (although that would cost a lot, so that’s probably the answer to that.) It’s so claustrophobic, that even with a good paint job and better lighting, some may still be wary of using it.
Bringing the tunnel up to ADA standards would cost several bunches of $$. Think of the need for a ramp on the College St end.
This could be the greatest permission vs. forgiveness opportunity of all time. Between the college and the city and the RR, a bureaucratic morass surely awaits. Save the headaches, gather a posse of like minds, get some paint and some brooms and knock it out commando style.
Seriously. There is always leftover paint sitting around in sheds and garages.
ASC repaints the tunnel every May (except May 2012, when ASC employees persuaded ASC not to repaint because the graffiti was so pleasant and heart-warming). Unfortunately it was repainted in May 2013 and now we have unsavory graffiti cropping up. I think if you took your own paintbrushes to it no one would care.
Also, I use the tunnel every single day, twice a day, even in winter before 8 a.m. when it’s still pretty dark, and it doesn’t scare me at all. It is too short to hide any sort of threat.
Somebody might contact Living Walls about their 2014 projects.
Is there any place to pick apples that isn’t way the heck up in the GA mountains? I know it’s beautiful up there, but it’s a long way. Just a wee baby orchard would be fine. We’re not picky.
“We’re not picky.” Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha.
That is one god-awful, if inadvertent, pun. When my first high school boyfriend came to visit, Dad didn’t give him an intimidating talk. He told him puns. For a solid hour. It was so mortifying that it was probably more effective.
Are we sisters? The worst of it is that my first boyfriend actually liked my father’s puns.
No, he didn’t.
never appleogize for a bad pun.
I think you’re stuck going to the mountains if you want to pick em yourself. But if you do decide to trek up north, this does happen to be the second weekend of the Georgia Apple Festival in Ellijay!
http://www.georgiaapplefestival.org/
I’ve always assumed Ellijay was the closest. We were planning on heading up there this weekend, but would love to hear if there is some place closer.
Be prepared to sit in miles of traffic. It was crazy up there last weekend.
Kroger produce department?
Now that everybody’s got the politics out of their system and clogged up the board, can we get a plunger and start today over?
It’s Friday, folks. Be happy.
Great idea. And DM, this is when a “collapse” arrow would be an invaluable addition.
+1000
One would think that the best part of the shutdown being over is that we NO LONGER HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE SHUTDOWN. But I guess some folks didn’t get the memo and have to get in their parting shots.
Go outside, people. It’s a beautiful day.
No thank you.
Hibernation season?
Yup! Found a nice glacier to park myself on. The libs tell me I better get one while the gettin’s good.
Yes, please let’s start FFAF over. 123 comments as of 10:50 am on Friday. I wonder what the record might be and if we are approaching a new one.
2 Decatur beer fest tix available. Please email me if you would like them. Will sell for face value, OBO.
I may need one if you are interested in splitting up the pair
Beer fest tix have sold, thx for your interest.
Totally random question
Has anyone been to Burning Man and if so what were their thoughts? The 2103 Burn has already happened but for some reason I want to add this to my bucket list.
I have a cousin in Oregon (whom I haven’t seen in 30-40 years but we are now in touch on FB) who goes every year. She upgraded her expedition this year by buying a tiny teardrop trailer. She has an absolutely fab time every trip.
2103? Does Burning Man have something to do with time travel?
If you take the wrong stuff, definitely.
welcome back to the present.
I understand it might not happen in 2014 after 15 years of insanity, but the Doo-Nanny in Seale, Alabama, is kind of a redneck mini-Burning Man without the desert. End of March.
Here you go with the hoppy — a beer brewing appliance that automates the entire process including sterilization and recipe tracking. Central grain container fits in a dishwasher. Pro brewers are using this in Seattle to refine their recipes before going to high volume.
PicoBrew Zymatic: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708005089/picobrew-zymatic-the-automatic-beer-brewing-applia
Now you have me off politics! I am a brewer and looking forward to reading this! Thanks!
Nice. I’m about ready to write a check!!
And the successor to the Big Green Egg as “Most Simultaneously Unjustifiably Expensive But Still Greatly Desired Appliance” is born…
Which is why I refuse to click on the link, says the guy who’s about to power down his laptop and fire up the egg to smoke a turkey for dinner…
After reading further it turns out that their primary target buyers are pro brewers that want to test recipes, then secondary targets are advanced brewers thinking of going pro. May be too expensive for normal home brewers.
I can understand wanting one unit with a keg or two as opposed to several pots, fermenting bottles and dozens of small bottles to clean. As the guy says, most people give up home brewing because they have to spend all day cleaning.
Vote – which ad do you like better – the smiling (sneering?) face of James Radford every time you come to DM, or the ads from months ago with pictures of people commenting on hip replacements at Dekalb Medical?
Bring back the hip replacement people!
I’ve got to go with the super creepy/sexy LSOS flashing ad that includes the almost-NSFW upskirt pic. Come to think of it, maybe that’s what Radford is leering at…
I keep thinking Radford is running for office again, everytime I open the DM page.
Easy answer here: Whichever one is paying the bills so that I may access this site without charge, a site that works in part like a free Angie’s List on Fridays.
OK, I’m tired of talking politics and getting depressed about our impending home value plunge if the commissioners do something stupid on Monday. So yes, let’s be happy and think about happy things, like puppies and rainbows and THE DECATUR CRAFT BEER FESTIVAL!
Who else is going? What’s your plan of attack? Who’s going to still be going strong for the 4:00 tapping of the Left Hand Peppermint Patty Firkin?? And, most importantly, who can give me a ride home???
I’ll be there. No plan of attack…I’ll just take it as it goes. 4:00 tapping sounds good. If you find a ride, can we share? UBER may be in order.
TeeRuss is in. Also have extremely ambitious plans to Marta to the L5P Halloween Parade immediately after BeerFest, then hang at Yacht Club for a bit, then off to Yacht Rock at Variety Playhouse. For TeeRuss, tomorrow is bigger than Christmas and St. Patrick’s day combined.
I’m volunteering again, which leaves precious little time for sampling before 2nd shift crew is supposed to show up. Regarding rides home, if all else fails, there’s the grassy area in front of the Decatur library for a nap. See “Bierleichen”, German for beer corpse.
Have fun hanging with Mr. MedievalistInDecatur! I’ll be by sometime to scoop him up.
I admire that plan TeeRuss – good luck with execution. My favorite day of the year too.
J_T, I’ll look for you up there. My plan consists of the following: pre-game with a vodka, 12:00 walk to beer-fest, drink lots of beer, fend off all the women who will undoubtedly be chasing me around as lord knows, I have more sex appeal than Burt Reynolds after 40 or 50 mini-beers, 5.00 walk home.
All I ask is that you be sure to buy a bratwurst from the Decatur Bulldog Booster tent. It is certain to be the best meal of the day and at a decidedly non-Decatur bargain price.
I’m in for a brat! You gonna have sauerkraut and mustard for them or should I bring my own?
Brad, Keith, TeeRuss, you can find me easily. I’ll be the guy with a beer in one hand, sausage in the other, and mustard stains all over. At least, let’s just hope that’s mustard…
Yes. We always supply kraut, mustard and the rest of the bratwurst condiment family. No need to bring anything of your own. We even have those pretty pretzel necklaces. I know you can’t wait to model one of those!
We’ll come find you, Smith. The Mrs and I will be good for at least a brat each. I don’t know about the pretzel necklace (I like the soft kind myself) but I did somehow end up with one of them the last time I went to the beer festival, two years ago. I’m sure there will be some more unexpected silliness tomorrow too!
I generally avoid the dudes with a sausage in their hand.
Unless it is from Patak.
Ba dum bum!
As long as the Beerfest is the same weekend as the Kentuck Arts Festival, we will not be at the Beerfest (even when there’s a home game and Tuscaloosa becomes very difficult to deal with).
To be perfectly honest, I feel the same way about the Decatur Craft Beer Festival as I do about Mardi Gras. Once is enough.
Okay, I know name calling is against the rules, even if developers seem to be fair game with no moderation evident, but J_T is a dirty rotten liar who lies for his own benefit. The Peppermint Patty was tapped at 2:00!! If you waited until 4:00, you were probably out of luck. Oh, I’m sure there is going to be a claim of misremebering and that it was all a mistake but I know it was all part of a master plan to bogart the Left Hand.
I got some anyway. A good time was had by all!
Hey now, I did not benefit at all. The DCBF people themselves spread that misinformation. And even if the 4:00 time had been correct, the Mrs had me drinking cider in the corner by then, trying to keep me out of fights with Georgia fans as I walked around yelling “Commodores!”
http://decaturbeerfestival.org/about.php
I believe you. You’re forgiven.
I heard that AleYeah! no longer sells brewing ingredients and is just focusing on selling craft beers? Is this true?
If so, you can just go to the Wine Workshop and Brew Center in East Decatur station: http://www.wineworkshop.net/ We are making our second wine there now; it’s fun and we’ve really enjoyed the wine we’ve made! And, of course, they have beer making supplies as well.
Yes, but there is an brew store in East Decatur Station.
We’ve started using them, but I’m surprised at AleYeah!’s decision. I feel like there are tons of craft beer places in the neighborhood. We can fill a growler at the Oakhurst Market.
They wanted more space for beer, and they needed it. Don’t think the ingredients were selling very well. And I think OM is just doing wine growlers now.
Drat. They were really close. I used them as one of my “let’s get this labor going” walks last summer because my husband felt motivated by the destination.
Did not work.
Hopefully you have had better success in that regard since then!
2 weeks late, but she came
I also tried the Oakhurst Beer, Blues, and BBQ Festival on my due date but no luck there, either.
I asked last week with no response: has anyone built something with ‘sunroom’-like construction? and has a a company to recommend for that kind of thing? (I have contacted what seems to be the most prominent sunroom company but can’t seem to get them to get back to me for an estimate).
I know some people who recently had their porch screened in – just had walls and ceiling added. The walls were screens with sliding windows – not glass windows, but some other sort of technology that I can’t remember the name of. DC Enclosures is the company. Looked like a nice job to me.
Call for toys: I had a blast doing this with the neighborhood kids who pitched in and donated. Here’s the set up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/103786388@N03/sets/72157636061756805/
But I have big plans for next year, I just need more toys. I can use any size but to pull off what I have planned I’ll need a lot of small toys (action figures, polly pockets, etc). Spread the word, the Mutant Toy Army is recruiting! Drop them off at 308 Kings Hwy.
Woody and Buzz are gonna come to your house and get you in your sleep, man.
The Moratorium is not perfect but allows us all to have a conversation about what we want our neighborhoods to look like in Decatur. If we can’t agree to place a short hold on both the tear-downs and associated tree cutting, let’s support a moratorium on just the trees. In the last two weeks, the City has received four times the average number of permit applications for tear-downs that they normally receive in a month. The houses will come down during the moratorium anyway. Still,we can save some historic specimen trees on these lots and ON YOUR LOT if they border these areas. Come on folks. Look out your window and think about what could happen to your street and your home if we do nothing. Support the moratorium for the good of our Community now and in the future!
No, let’s not support the moratorium just to prevent trees from being cut down. Let’s hold the commission accountable for the absurdity of tying these two issues together. I have no idea if a tree cutting moratorium is wise or practical. But even assuming it’s a good idea, we shouldn’t use that as an excuse to justify the ridiculous tear down moratorium that will disproportionately affect the people who can least afford it.
I think they should institute a 90 day moratorium on moratoriums to “preserve the status quo” for a period of “study, research and deliberation”, and to “prevent the circumvention” of the appropriate administration and enforcement of our duly enacted ordinances.
I would think we could all at least agree that any proposal that DawgFan, DEM, Walrus AND I oppose is inherently flawed.
I couldn’t agree more!
nonsense! you’re flawed.
J_T, you scared them and you won. The commission caved. The proposed moratoriums is now being considered as 2 separate matters.
Of course, they will both get approved, but at least they give the public this small victory.
No intent to scare anyone. I just seem to do that naturally. But if that’s what it takes to get them to remove their heads from their hindsides, so be it.
No thank you.
“Come on folks. Look out your window and think about what could happen to your street and your home if we do nothing”
I am, and I like what I am imagining.
I’m curious, where is the big lot clearing expected to take place? Everyone keeps talking about this as if there is some big project that’s about to move forward, is that the case? Any details?
go to 1004 Clairemont. Look behind the “historic” house to the cleared space that exists because the neighbors on both sides sold their backyards to the developer. Say hello to the 7 new houses that will be built in the space where 1 back yard used to exist. And, the 21 children that will go to the newly reopened Westchester in a couple of years. Ask the Commissioners why they allowed this to happen and then tried out a moratorium!
Please explain where the 21 children will come from.
Please sign our tree petition full of incentives and disincentives for improved tree canopy in Decatur. Every one is invited…except for DawgFan ( just a joke!). How ’bout those Tigers from Missouri!
Here is the link!
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/trees-decatur-petition?source=c..url&r_by=8547258
a little celebratory note and chest thumping:
my book “The Red Pill” is now ranked #59,094 (out of 2 million books) in Amazon’s Kindle store
we’re #59,094!
we’re #59,094!
we’re #59,094!
I ate a pound and a half of cheese, just for fun today.
(Combination of Parmesan, Mozzarella string cheese, mini Babybels, and American “pasturized process cheese food” slices.)
low carb much?
Not a fan of pooping, I see.
+1
Part of your Beer Festival survival plan?
Big day for me on Sunday, as I join several of my running buddies in Athens for my very first half marathon.
We’ve been preparing for months (you may have seen us on Saturday and Sunday mornings hoofing it around Decatur and hanging out at Kavarna afterward), and I appreciate all of their support, encouragement and friendship.
Good luck and enjoy!
Good luck to you and the rest of the crew headed over! Now you have to post your time…
Run like the wind Aging Metalhead! I know all you guys will have a blast.
Thanks for the encouraging words, all! I had a fantastic time, and all of us had a great race. I don’t know my official time yet, but I believe it’s right at 2:05, which is better than my most optimistic goal. So I’m pretty thrilled.
That’s the first time I’ve gotten a close look at Athens, and we ran through lots of beautiful neighborhoods and UGA campus areas. Looking forward to next year.
Anyone got a pair of DCBF tickets they’d be willing to part with?
1561columbia at gmail dot com, thanks.
So, I don’t get out of downtown into the more residential parts of Decatur very often, but based on comments on this site and elsewhere it seems suddenly a lot of people are looking to sell. Is this simply because of increased value/taxes or did the summer crime spike have an effect? Or is it the moratorium? Or am I mistaken about there being a sharp increase in sellers?
There is a very low inventory of houses for sale in the 30030 zip code (heck, there are very few rentals available). People with kids want to get into the school system. That and other factors are driving home values higher and higher. Makes people who own homes in CoD,especially those without kids, think about cashing out.
Eventually the city schools will effectively be a cluster of private schools populated by the children of folks who can afford the high real estate prices and the high taxes.
Re “cluster of private schools”: public schools will never have the customer service of private schools, especially here in Georgia where education funding is low. So if Decatur gets tippity top upscale, it will probably become a cluster of privately schooled children. Another private school or two may crop up. This is what I’ve seen in wealthy suburbs in other parts of the country, even parts of the country where public schools get much better funding and perfom at a high level. The danger is that then enrollment in CSD will drop, along with community support.
But we’re a long way from that and still attracting folks of ordinary means. Westchester Apts. on Scott Blvd. now has a crowd of children at the bus stop–used to be just one or two at the most. A mom there told me that you have to grab an apartment there the minute you get a waiting list call. If you wait a day, the apartment goes to another renter.
1 DCBF ticket available for $45 (face value + fees). Contact me at .
Any recommendations for roof repair? Spots on the ceiling near the eaves tell me there’s a leak.
What a great day for college football today. Such wins- Ga. Tech, Auburn, Vandy, Tenn. Now Clemson or Fla. State, I’ll just have to wait and see.
most responses in a FFAF evar?
remember the hoopla over Family Dollar?
Nah, everyone loves Family Dollar. It was only when people thought it was going to be a Dollar General that people got their knickers wadded up
You know it’s an intense FFAF when comments keep coming in on Monday yet the post about a new craft distillery gets nothing.