WSB’s Mark Arum Hates the Streetcar Too!
Decatur Metro | November 22, 2010 | 10:03 amThis morning the AJC features some quality knee-jerk reaction on the Atlanta streetcar from WSB’s Channel 2 Action News’ Triple Team Traffic member Mark Arum. It reads like something from The Vent…
I can’t tell you how many times I have been stuck with no way to get between [Centennial Park and MLK Center]. It seems every time I want to head over to the King Center from the Park, my car is broken. And there are no cabs. And my bike has a flat tire. And I’ve got a cramp in my thigh so I can’t walk. The kicker to the trolley folly, is that the city will need to kick in an additional $25 million to complete the project.
…Listen, trolleys were great at the turn of the century. And so were typewriters. But I don’t think we’d be better off relying on either right now.
If you have time, head over to youtube.com and search “Simpsons Monorail”. Hopefully you’ll find the irony somewhat therapeutic.
OK, so all of Atlanta’s traffic solutions should be based on Mr. Arum’s personal experiences in Atlanta. Got it. And anything “great” in 1900 is crap now. Got it. Oh, and there’s some sort of irony I’m missing.
OK. So what SHOULD we be spending $25 million on?
If the city wants to spend $25 million, let me suggest where the money would be best spent. Left hand turn lanes on Peachtree Street. That would be the most effective way to help traffic flow through the city.
…Big picture here folks. The smoother traffic on Peachtree flows, the smoother all of Atlanta flows. It’s one of the world’s most famous boulevards and it needs an upgrade.
Umm…aren’t most of the world’s famous boulevards grid-locked messes? You see, what makes boulevards famous are the cities that surround them. Not left turn lanes and “smooth” traffic. If you’re looking for that, I’ve got a famous boulevard in rural Virginia to sell ya.
Sure people want “smoother” traffic options. Problem is: so does everyone else. Problem is: smooth traffic at any costs destroys urban environments. $25 million to destroy downtown Atlanta? No thanks.
I’ll take a streetcar that will shuttle tourists, increase property values, and potentially connect to the Beltline and revitalize entire areas of our city, thanks.
You May Also Like:
-
June 25, 2010 Atlanta’s New, Revised Streetcar Proposal (16)
-
October 15, 2010 Atlanta Gets $47 Million Streetcar Grant (16)
-
July 15, 2011 Atlanta Streetcar Gets Greenlight To Begin Construction (50)
Your zeal for this particular project is really getting the better of you, DM. This post is arguing against a straw man. Then throw in the hyperbole — left turn lanes will “destroy” downtown Atlanta? Who knew they were so powerful?
Perhaps I was a bit dramatic using “destroy”. But a faster (aka smoother) Peachtree isn’t good for intown Atlanta.
What’s the straw man here?
I like the streetcar, but I don’t sit up late at night drooling over it. But the stuff people are writing about it is just too good to pass up.
“OK, so all of Atlanta’s traffic solutions should be based on Mr. Arum’s personal experiences in Atlanta.”
That’s not what he is saying at all. I think it is pretty clear he is using the first person as a rhetorical advice to make the point that there are already many options to get from this point A to B, not that his personal experience is a deciding factor.
If that’s true, then he’s the one arguing against the straw man. I don’t know of anyone who argued that the Atlanta streetcar should be built because there were no other transportation options between the King Center and Centennial.
I am very much in favor of increased public transportation options. If it were up to me, I’d raise taxes on private vehicles and gasoline to encourage more bus lines, private mini-bus lines and creation of trolley lines. And I’m NOT in favor of merely widening roads to accept more cars.
Maybe I just don’t understand the thinking behind the present project, but I’m afraid this downtown to MLK Center line is just a boondoggle. I don’t see how this is going to help much of anyone get much of anywhere. And it will do it expensively.
I know we have to start somewhere, but once this line is built and no one rides it, it’s going to be a black eye for public transportation that will just make more reasonable proposals even more difficult to get approval.
Well put, Craig. That’s my main beef with this plan, too. Call me a pessimist, but once this gets built and then under-used, we’re going to have a big challenge arguing for more important public transit options. People will simply look at the streetcar and say ‘see, it doesn’t work’.
I agree with Robbie and Craig. I can see the future headlines: ‘streetcar folly costs XX per passenger journey’…
It’s the eco-transit version of a bridge to nowhere.
Very valid concerns.
But Atlanta’s sorta stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue. So much of the state is hostile to public transportation that we can’t get enough financial support for any of the projects that really have the best chances of success down the longest and most populated corridors (Peachtree, Ponce, etc).
So we settle for a smaller project that cleverly connects a NATIONAL PARK with downtown Atlanta. How can the Fed turn THAT down?
But now it must prove its worth. And the outcome is quite unknown. But we shouldn’t forget that this streetcar doesn’t just connect the King Center with Centennial Park. Those are just the start and end points. What about all the new mixed use residential development on Auburn and existing residential downtown around Woodruff Park? If you work around downtown you now have a real option of taking the trolley to work if you live around the King Center or anywhere along the way.
And if the streetcar ever connected to Inman Park and the Beltline, watch out.
Almost…
Did any of you (other than Sally) follow the Peachtree Streetcar proposals? Attend any of the meetings?
At any rate, isn’t it more bothersome that this fellow reports on traffic every morning but doesn’t seem to understand some of the fundamentals.
This is an interesting point Robbie that I admit I hadn’t considered before in my excitement about the streetcar. I think you’re right that there’s the potential for the failure of the streetcar (from a lack of use and/or spurred growth) to bias even more people in metro Atlanta against transit investment.
But I think it’s really about a 50/50 chance — there’s an equal possibility that it will succeed and serve as an example for what can be gained with transit investment. What this line has going for it is the fact that it passes through a zone that can be highly trafficked by pedestrians. I did a neighborhood cleanup project downtown over the weekend and we were all impressed by the amount of foot traffic in the area we saw.
A minor nitpick: Peachtree ain’t a boulevard, it’s a street. Believe it or not, suffixes on street names actually (are supposed to) mean something.
Incidentally, if Peachtree actually were a boulevard, it would probably come a lot closer to meeting Mr. Arum’s performance expectations. Maybe that’s what the $25 mil could be spent on…
Further north, Peachtree Street is a boulevard. And yes- left turn lanes would destroy Peachtree Street. Think of how many buildings would have to be razed so there would be enough room for left turn lanes. Yikes.
Wait–is Boulevard a boulevard or a street?
And what about Boulevard Drive–most of which is now Hosea Williams? Is that a Boulevard or a Drive? Or some combination of the two? And what distinguishes a drive from a boulevard and a street?
I’m so confused….
“Street” is the typical urban thoroughfare; “boulevards” are wider, more elaborately landscaped and designed to carry much higher traffic loads (also, though we’ve dumbed them down somewhat in the States, they ideally contain local traffic “slip lanes” on both sides to accommodate low speed pick-ups, drop-offs, on-street parking, etc.; “drives” are typically less regimented, more park-like, designed with both transportation and scenic appreciation in mind.
Also, “avenues” are typically streets that break the core grid to connect two landmarks or places of specific importance.
Typology. It’s fun!
Thanks–the typology *is* fun (seriously), although AFAICT it has next to no relationship to the ways street name suffixes in the U.S. are actually used.
You’re right, TOK. Especially in the states and with any street/road constructed in the past half century or so when marketing appeal took over. At one point, the suffixes were an important part of choosing a route, because they indicated what context to expect.
Today, Road, Street, Avenue, Boulevard, Parkway and Drive often get used interchangeably, especially in subdivisions.
I am surprised that no one here is advocating narrowing down Peachtree Street to encourage pedestrian and bike traffic. I know, why don’t we just make it Streetcar only? People could just leave their house earlier to get anywhere since it would take longer but it would be totally worth it, right?
Yes. That way, they would no longer have to leave earlier in order to drive longer distances.
They did just narrow peachtree street in Midtown. we lost a lane on both sides of the road. It’s two lanes in each direction now. They put in parking spots on the curb on either side of the street. I never understood why because cars and delivery trucks still don’t park in them. they stop in the far right lane with their hazard lights on like they always did which means we then have one lane of travel on both sides of peachtree.
If you drive from Downtown to Buckhead, why in hell would you drive peachtree? Peachtree is not made to move traffic, thats what the other, parallel, 4+ lane one way streets are for (Spring, Juniper, West Peachtree, Piedmont). Thats 4 lanes of one way traffic on 4 separate streets. Okay, so once Spring ends it merges you on peachtree, but by that time you are already in Buckhead.
There is no reason Peachtree should be a high traffic flow street. In fact, it was designed NOT to be high traffic flow, but to be for entering and exiting buildings with addresses on Peachtree. Having peachtree be pedestrian only/streetcar only from Midtown to Downtown would be great. There are still 10+ lanes on parallel streets pushing traffic between the two (as was designed)
Spring is southbound.
Yeah, I meant West Peachtree, but it doesnt really matter. My point is there is already 14+ lanes of traffic connecting downtown to the tip of Buckhead.
I think Arum is referring to the section of Peachtree north of Brookwood.
It would take a helluva lot more than $25 million to gobble up the land that would be required to add another lane along that stretch.
I’d propose a road diet, instead. It would be far more cost-effective.
Maybe $25 million will help open the Decatur Diner sometime next year. I would use a diner more often than something in downtown Atlanta. Diners help feed the hungry, provide nice ambient lighting along the sidewalks, and are warm in the winter. If the AJC has an opinion, then I can have an opinion too.
I’m sure driving to the WSB office every day on Peachtree Street is frustrating for Arum, but for the rest of us, there are many other roads mere blocks away that have great “traffic flow”.
I love it when people write that streetcars are an outdated technology only good for Edwardians. Let’s see, what else was around in that era that we still use every day? Light bulbs, automobiles, photography, toilets, bicycles, ice cream, steel, movies…guess those things have no use to us either.
I have a busines proposition for you. I’ll start a company today seling cars, cameras, toilets and bikes that are manufactured according to technology available in 1900. Want to invest in that?
The Gridlock Guy needs to learn more about the cost of urban right of way, the limits placed on funding provided by community improvement districts, and the principle of triple convergence.
You can learn more about the principle of triple convergence at http://tinyurl.com/2d9y9f8
As the article explains, peak hour traffic congestion is a sign of a vital metropolitan region – it is not a problem that can or should be solved. Atlanta does not want to be the next Detroit.
Much of the local funding to support the Atlanta Streetcar is being provided by the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District, a self-taxing district whose funds can be used only in downtown Atlanta. Redirecting these funds to Peachtree Road in Buckhead is not an option.
Widening roads in urban areas is extremely expensive. When the Georgia DOT added two lanes to three blocks of 14th Street two years ago, the right of way cost $106 million. Construction costs added over $80 million beyond that.
Transportation improvements and housing options that encourage more people to live close to jobs are the region’s best hope for reducing the amount of time people spend in cars. Numerous condos have been built in Buckhead in recent years, which are enabling more people to walk to work.
If left turn lanes were added to Peachtree Road, crossing the street would become a daunting task, especially if no median was provided in the middle of the street. This is especially true for seniors, who within twenty years will account for one out of five people in the region. Streets have many purposes, only one of which is moving cars.
Like streetcars in Portland and other cities, the Atlanta Streetcar is likely to spark increased housing development in downtown Atlanta – which will help create a better jobs/housing balance there as well.
The region cannot build its way out of traffic congestion. Revitalizing downtown Atlanta – which is a primary goal of the streetcar – enables more people to reduce their need to travel. Those who don’t want to live close to jobs or in areas sufficiently compact to support transit need to accept the things they cannot change. In a vital region, urban streets will not provide free flow for motorists who choose lifestyles that require long distance commuting.
Awesome post, Sally! You make a great point about the downtown-specific funding coming from the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District.
I also like your point about peak hour traffic congestion being a “sign of a vital metropolitan region – it is not a problem that can or should be solved.” I agree. It’s pretty unreasonable to expect fast-moving car traffic at peak times on Peachtree. Keeping car traffic slow is good for cyclists and pedestrians.
I just learned quite a bit
Thank you for compiling so much useful information in one posting. Very succinct.
Agreed. And that triple-convergence link is awesome!
When you were young, did you ever think that you would write/utter those words, DM?
$185M for that bridge, tells us where DOT priorities have been. Why all the adverse comments for the $25M trolley?
That would be $72 million, not $25 million. But who’s counting?
I think it is very important to count and to look back to our recent history and see where money has beed allocated and spent or not spent on important priorites.
Just because Mr. Arum drives or even regularly observes traffic doesn’t mean he understands transportation, congestion, transit, construction or finance. Widening Peachtree Street is not a viable option for improving transportation in metro Atlanta. The cost of right-of-way could barely get any higher in metro Atanta. Removing buildings is simply unrealistic.
As Ms. Flocks points out, the funds are not portable. The major source of the funds, a Community Improvement District that taxes itself has determined this is a worthwhile expenditure. This project is not for commuters. It is largely for tourists and convention visitors, who pump millions of funds from outside this region into our local economy and tax coffers. Downtown has numerous facilities that are a draw for tourists and conventions: the World Congress Center, hotels, the Georgia Dome, Phillips Arena, Centential Park, the Acquarium, the MLK Historic District, Children’s Museum, and one day the Civil Rights Museum and the College Football Hall of Fame. Projects that encourage people to stay longer, visit another convenient site or improve the experience of these out-of-town spenders are good for the local economy.
“I have a busines proposition for you. I’ll start a company today seling cars, cameras, toilets and bikes that are manufactured according to technology available in 1900. Want to invest in that?”
Toilets and bikes haven’t changed a whole hell of a lot since 1900. Cameras and cars look different and use different tech but the premise is still the same. And, I think some refurbed streetcars would look pretty nifty chugging along Auburn Ave :).
I love streetcars and hope they will make a comeback in Atlanta. However, I don’t have high hopes for this particular route.