Opposition to Mead @ College Ave Commercial Development Speaking Up

Over the past few days, opposition to the potential development at Mead and College Avenue has been making itself heard through emails and phone calls to neighbors, which include some of Decatur’s various board members and community leaders.

Residents and board members have reported they’ve had many discussions about the commercial plans for the corner, mainly regarding the renovated space that will house “The Imperial” and the vacant residential lot next door, which the property owner hopes to rezone commercial to accommodate a new grocery store built and operated by the owners of Candler Park Market.

Reasons for opposition have been numerous, from the potential of increased traffic, noise and parking demands, to the safety of children (in regards to the presence of a bar).

While it seems The
Imperial only needs to go before the city for an alcohol license to operate in the existing commercial space currently under renovation, the market plans to request a zoning change – as reported HERE – for the neighboring residential lot, which creates an opportunity for a community debate before the Zoning Board of Appeals.

Should be interesting.

117 thoughts on “Opposition to Mead @ College Ave Commercial Development Speaking Up”


  2. What? Somebody doesn’t want a drinking establishment shoved in their front yard? Shocked, I am. Not.

  4. What? Somebody buys a home adjacent to a vacant commercial property and then objects every time a prospective redevelopment comes along? Not shocked, not even surprised. We’ve been through this before.

    1. STG, clearly you are mistaken. They didn’t buy next to a vacant commercial property.
      They bought property adjoining a public park. I share their outrage that anyone would try to develop their personal greenspace.

          1. It was pretty clear. It reminded me of the dream of having Selig turn Suburban Plaza into a park.

    2. Unbelievable….PJ you hit the nail on the head…

      “Reasons for opposition have been numerous, from the potential of increased traffic, noise and parking demands, to the safety of children (in regards to the presence of a bar)”

      Increased traffic – huh? I’m sure the owners aren’t hoping to draw the Buckhead, Alpharetta crowd and are a bit more focused on locals whom would mostly walk, doesn’t seem other businesses are having huge traffic issues ie..avellinos, ale yeah etc… FAIL

      Noise – see comment about train that is super loud right there at all hours – again FAIL

      Safety of Children – lots of kids out at 2am or whenever bar closes?? FAIL

      This “opposition’s” reasoning is so faulty and weak it just boggles the mind.

    3. It worked last time. I recommend they make a few thousand yard signs that say “no bars next to R-60 residential houses.” That should do it. We can extend the buffer zone between commercial and R-60 to prohibit bars as well as 7 story tall buildings. In the meantime, the property that was at the heart of the last controversy remains vacant, to the detriment of the city coffers and the benefit of one landowner who knowingly bought next to a commercial property. Whatever happened to buyer beware?

    4. Am I reading it wrong or is it a vacant residential property that the Candler Market folks are trying to get re-zoned as commercial? If that’s the case, then the neighbor’s objection seems perfectly reasonable.

      1. The vacant residential lot which would house the market needs to be rezoned to accommodate that use. But the bar would be in the rehabbed commercial space which is already zoned for that use.

  6. There is a heck of a lot of difference between a nice neighborhood shop that closes at 6pm and a rowdy bar with the drunks staggering out at 2 am.

      1. The U-Joint has two roads, a fire station, and Kaverna as buffers between it and residences. This lot does not.

        As to the grocery store, it makes no sense to me why they don’t just buy-out the SD Market just on the other side of the East Lake MARTA and develop it. At one time Dannemann’s owned both locations, as well as what’s now the Church bar at Edgewood and Boulevard. Plenty of parking, a completely transformed neighborhood, and lower costs (as well as lower taxes) await in Atlanta.

        It’s an easy walk, and you have exclusives with a much larger population set. You don’t have to compete with the Oakhurst Market, and you won’t get any hassles from the neighbors. As a member of KNO, I’d be over the moon to have them.

        Oh, and we have room for the bar as well.

    2. There may be a difference in what someone hopes for when moving next to a commercial property but there is zero difference in what you can expect. That is, unless you are the one willing to step up, purchase the property, and make it what you want it to be. To wait until hard working people invest their own time and money and then decide it’s time to challenge what they’re going to do is a crappy move in my opinion.

      Calling something a rowdy bar with 2 am drunks assumes too much that is not in evidence. Whatever they do is better than a decrepit building which in itself is a danger to the same children whose safety they seem to be so concerned about.

    3. Call me crazy (don’t worry, many others do) but it seems to me that the appropriate time to consider that “heck of a lot of difference” is when buying the property near a parcel that is zoned for both of those purposes.

    4. A rowdy bar in Decatur? Guess that means they’ll have Aerosmith on the karaoke song list. Dream on! 🙂

  10. So, let me get this straight–people protested Walmart and wanted smaller or possibly local independent businesses, instead. Now, people are protesting the opening of small, possibly local business, and this is not right either?

    Also, who says the bar is going to be “rowdy?” There are plenty of bars in Decatur that are not rowdy…

    1. True. In fact the rowdiest time for bars in City of Decatur is just after that hypothetical 6 p.m. closing time and way before the imagined 2 a.m. debauchery. I mean seriously, what could be worse than the Twain’s after-dinner running of the toddlers?

      1. I just choked on a Cinnamon Altoid laughing at “Twain’s after-dinner running of the toddlers”…genius! But now my throat hurts. 🙁

      2. +1! As one of those with toddlers, I am disappointed on those rare occasions when I get to go to Twain’s (or any other bar) without them during later hours, only to discover people having delightful conversations and obviously enjoying the fellowship of their neighbors. Boooorrrriiiing! 😉

    1. Absolutely, there are plenty of developments where the covenant can tell you what colors you can paint your house, how many cars you can park in your driveway, etc.

  14. Thinking Man Tavern, right across the tracks from the proposed Imperial, has similar proximity to residences. How much complaining do you hear on this site and elsewhere about Thinking Man? Not much.

    1. Thinking Man is similar, but not quite the same. They have some townhouses across Atlanta Ave., but there is a substantial buffer between them and the single family homes the other side of Core Fitness. That location has also been in nearly constant commercial use for decades. Used to have a Korean grocery back in the day.

      1. Are you suggesting that there is some kind of difference between townhouses and single family homes whereby one needs a buffer against bars and retail?

  16. Filling in for J_T in the bear poking department…

    I would MUCH rather see a Wal Mart there.

    1. Ouch. You might have to up your game up a bit there, Token. Also, make sure your skin is thick enough so that when people recognize you in public and say “hey, that’s the a-hole from Decatur Metro!”, you can politely wave and continue on walking your dogs, following those ingrates home and letting them piss and poop on their precious front lawn 😉

      1. 1. I’m already used to people calling me an a-hole, so no worries there.
        2. I’m a cat person. Remember, cats rule and dogs drool.
        3. I’ll be happy to wave, but is the single-digit wave acceptable?
        4. Sorry to disappoint you on this one; I promise to do better next time.

        🙂

      2. I can see you two are gonna have to be put in time-out. At Twain’s. At the toddler dinner-hour.

  18. I sold my husband on our current home by pointing out that it was within crawling distance of the Corner Pub. And then two months after we moved in, the Pub burned, and we were very, very sad. Maybe I’m the worst parent ever – and there’s pretty good evidence that can be used against me – but I never considered living near a bar a detriment to my child. At least she didn’t have far to walk to come find us when she woke up at midnight and Mommy and Daddy weren’t home. KIDDING!

    I can’t see it being a noise issue for the neighbors. Because, if you haven’t noticed, trains go by there all the time blaring their horns, plus there’s quite a bit of traffic noise on College Ave. As for the concern about rowdy drunks? I apologize in advance for my behavior.

      1. Good school and great bars – there is a Decatur T-shirt idea in there somewhere.

  20. A bar opening less than x number of feet from a church has certain restrictions on it – likely would only serve beer and wine. Shouldn’t be all that rowdy. GGDklb should be all for this – two local businesses moving into an area without a grocery store?

    2. Decatur has no restrictions (as far as I’m aware) against operating a restaurant that serves alcohol (beer, wine or liquor) within a certain distance of a church or religious institution. The City of Atlanta or Dekalb County might, I don’t know, but those rules do not apply in Decatur.

      There is a restriction against such in Decatur “within 100 yards of the property line of any school ground.” I think Oakhurst Elementary is probably more than 100 yards away in this case.

      Curiously, the code says that the “city commissioners may, in their discretion, issue or deny any license for the sale of distilled spirits by the drink for consumption on the premises where there is evidence that the type and number of schools in the vicinity causes minors to frequent the immediate area, even though there is compliance with minimum distance from schools.” Given that our city’s “walk to school” program runs right through the Oakhurst bar district every day, I really don’t think that this should or would be a concern in this case.

    3. “A bar opening less than x number of feet from a church has certain restrictions on it – likely would only serve beer and wine. Shouldn’t be all that rowdy.”

      Ummmmmmmmmm….I can get pretty rowdy on only beer or wine…
      😉

  22. Finally, a new bar in the neighborhood!

    But I wouldn’t worry about it attracting a rough crowd — I’ve heard of no neighborhood complaints about rowdiness, pet wrestling, and lewd behavior, since I’ve been banned from U-Joint, Thinking Man, and Steinbeck’s. It’ll probably only take of couple of weeks before The Imperial does the same.

    Who’s buying the first round?

    2. Hee hee! I’ve been moderated for asking Rick if he’s really a fish hat wearing local character. I doubt that Spencer has any clue what Decatur Metro is (or does he?!?) but I’m betting he’ll get a kick out of this when I tell him about it!

      1. Ha. It is a tricky business making assumptions — with Spencer, you never can tell!

      2. i have no idea who this Spencer Johnson character is, but this town ain’t big enough for two of us!

        and fair warning: as soon as I get good and liquored up at The Imperial, i’ve got first dibs on rasslin that Great Dane that lives on Mead, and heaven help Spencer if he tries to come between us.

          1. +1,000,000,000

            Truth hits everybody! If you don’t know Spencer then you should realize you are a total newby to Decatur.

            1. Agree. And I think it’s a real hoot — and Spencer will, too — that personal acquaintance with him is a badge of authenticity. Somebody had better start printing up FOS cards!

  24. My god, what do people want? Do people want Decatur to continue to grow as a truly walkable city or do people want it to be a city that strictly compartmentalizes residential areas and business/retail areas? If people want a walkable city, then zoning needs to accommodate this and that means allowing for business and retail to exist in residential areas. If you compartmentalize areas by type, then you force people to drive from their homes to get to services and shops. If anything, the city should look to DC’s new rezoning effort and encourage rezoning for more business in residential areas.

      1. Here’s an Atlantic Cities piece about DC’s effort to rewrite its zoning code: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/02/how-dc-used-past-fix-its-zoning-code/1206/

  26. I have a sneaking suspicion the prospective owners of Imperial Bar might not be local Decaturites. If they were, they would have named their establishment “Imperial Pub(lick House)” or “Imperial Tavern.” This would reassure us locals that the new watering hole would stock plenty of Belgian beers and microbrews, thus fitting right in with the civilized selection of libation emporiums we’ve come to expect here in towne. “Bar” = scary; “Pub” and “Tavern” = family friendly. Similarly, maybe Wal Mart should consider changing its name to Wal Market.

  28. I miss Queens in the late 50’s. Growing up in Elmhurst at the age of 7 I could walk to Dandy Pizza on Whitney Avenue for a 15 cent slice, go to the A&P on Broadway to pick up something for my mother, stop by Berk(owitz)’s candy store for the latest Detective Comics (I dug the Martian Manhunter), and then check into Cullen’s Bar & Grill to see when my old man and the rest of Cullen’s softball team might be finished with their post-game beers. I could usually count on a couple of dimes for the shuffleboard bowling machine (pinball machines were a no-go in NYC. LaGuardia outlawed them in the 40’s). St. Bartholomew’s School was just down the block from Cullen’s and coexisted very peacefully. Oh, and the G train stopped three blocks away at Elmhurst Avenue putting us 15 minutes from midtown. It seems to me that the denizens of Oakhurst might be able to find a 21st Century approximation of those good ol’ days with this kind of development.

  30. Who are these people who oppose these businesses? I haven’t personally heard any opposition.

    1. Me, either. There’s not a peep on the Oakhurst listserve. Could this opposition actually be a couple of people having knee-jerk reactions?

            1. The ‘bombardment’ is either exaggerated or from non-locals. I know many people on Mead and Olympic, and it sounds like what they and their neighbors are saying is that you’d be hard pressed to find someone on Mead (other than the family right next door who started this) who opposes this.

              Much like the ONA meeting, everyone was very supportive.

        2. One person can do a lot of bombarding. Who ever you spoke to needs to reference this thread. There seems to be a bombardment of support for the new tavern here.

    2. I live within spitting distance of that corner, and I know of one household that is outraged and everyone else I’ve talked to is pretty happy about the new development. So, this is one squeaky wheel that is making a lot of noise.

    1. You are correct. Following the link above for “Imperial Bar” leads to a Facebook wall for “The Imperial.” The owners are true Decaturites and I stand corrected. They left “bar” off the name, however without a friendly “pub” or “tavern” after “The Imperial” people were left to their own devices to describe it. In the absence of information, people have a tendency to make up their own and when they do it’s usually bad. Like calling “The Imperial” a “bar.”

      Now that we have the name correct, I’m sure all opposition will fade away. Assuming we can find any actual opposition.

      Now I wonder if all this was simply a brilliant marketing ploy so we’d all discuss The Imperial for an entire afternoon. Brilliant!

      2. No apologies necessary, DM. If it waddles and quacks, call it what it is: a bar. And thanks for a fun topic to take my mind off work this afternoon.

  34. An email was distributed to homes in the Mead Road/Olympic Place enumerating the concerns of an adjacent homeowner. Unfortunately, for said homeowner the support for the redevelopment of the commercial property, which has pretty much been an eyesore for the 16 years I’ve lived on Mead Road, has been huge. When you purchase next to lots zoned commercial you never know what you’ll get. Of course, I’m just speaking of those lots already zoned commercial.

    1. You’re right. Adjacent property owners should actually be happy it isn’t a 24-hour Insurrection moving in next door. Then again…

  36. Young kids should be in bed. Older kids will get carded. Either way, I hate with other parents whine about how things should be changed for the benefit of the children. Not all of us feel that everything should be changed to cater to little Johnny or Sue (or Lily or Griffin…this is Decatur). A community is for all of us, kids and those of drinking age as well.

    1. THANK YOU!!! You & City Girl above are my new heroines on this board (not supplanting any of my old ones, mind you, but supplementing them)!

  38. I live in Oakhurst and all I’ve hear is excitement about the new development! This is crazy! People who oppose changing a ratty looking corner into a great destination need to move to the burbs!

  40. As a former newspaper reporter, you never know what will get people upset. I once covered a zoning hearing about a proposed new cemetery. How controversial is that? But the neighboring homeowners were upset about it. I’ll paraphrase my favorite quote from one lady in the opposition: “What do I tell my children when there’s a funeral going on?” Oh, dear me. The other concern was traffic. Yes, traffic. So many people drive to cemeteries all the time. The proposed cemetery was defeated and so what did the developer do? He built as many houses on the property as he could.

  42. I’m jealous. I wish Candler Park Market would open a grocery store in walking distance of my house. I used to be able to walk there many years ago, and it is the greatest little store.

  44. People are entitled to object to what’s going on around them. They just shouldn’t expect their particular opinion to carry the day, if they don’t own the property.

    In any case, regardless of who it is that is opposed to these plans, I would be interested to hear what they WOULD support. I can’t think of a type of business that could survive in that location strictly on walk-up/cycle-up customers, so there is going to have to be some provision made for parking. At the same time, it doesn’t seem likely that the residential lot is ever going to be very desirable as a home site, so bundling it altogether creates a lot more options for commercial use. If the neighbors don’t want what’s on the drawing board now, then what DO they want?

    1. Sounds like GGD all over again. We don’t want [whatever], but we have no other viable ideas.

    2. yes, purchasing a home adjacent to a commercially zoned property
      should be accompanied by the expectation that a business
      will eventually move in, but in fairness to the homeowner and
      assuming they’re the immediate neighbor, I can understand their concern.
      I’d imagine they want to live in relative peace and quiet, and on the volume spectrum, bars aren’t known for their tranquility.

      Some people, like my wife, are very light sleepers. We used to have a bluegrass band renting the home next to ours, and while I loved their late night playing, it drove my wife bonkers.

      There’s also the matter of home resale, and the impact being next to a bar would have on their home’s value. Legit concern.

      On the other hand, that’s life in a big city like Mayberry, erm, Decatur.

      1. “that’s life in a big city” — Actually, that’s life in a big city AND a small town.

        This is an urban area, the big city, and we are tightly packed. When a lot sits vacant for a while, it creates the illusion of more space (and more control over one’s immediate vicinity) than actually exists. Having an empty seat next to you on the airplane is great, but the only way to be sure somebody won’t plop down in it who’s smelly, noisy, yakky or holding a grouchy baby, is to buy the seat. Otherwise, you don’t get to ask the flight attendant to place that undesirable neighbor somewhere else.

        We also want to be a small town. In small towns, all kinds of land uses are cheek-by-jowl with each other. The result is walkability and a sense of community that you only find in the big city neighborhood and the small town. The suburban approach of segregating uses is something many of us have consciously rejected, in choosing Decatur. We just aren’t all tuned in to what makes this a place we want to be, and to what the necessary trade-offs are.

        1. all valid points.

          i was simply putting myself in their moccasins for the sake of a smidge of balance in the discussion,
          again, i’m assuming the protester is the immediate neighbor.
          if not, i’d have much less empathy.

          1. I just don’t have much patience. Somebody tried to develop that corner about 10 years ago and a few of the neighbors stirred up a kerfuffle against it. Whether that plan was abandoned because of neighbor opposition or a hitch in the financing or some other reason, I don’t know. But it’s high time to get something going over there.

            2. I agree, I have no patience, those people bought houses next to commercially zoned property facing a busy street. The empty building has a negative effect on the whole area. It is very selfish to expect it to stay empty forever. The whole neighborhood will benefit from these businesses.

  46. After an upbringing with many hours spent at “Good Old Days” (Roswell Rd), Olde Peculiar Pub (Norcross), etc., I’m proud to say my adult children fervently support Oakhurst, Decatur proper, and various other local drinking establishments.

    1. And what I wouldn’t give for a big order of Potatoes Wonderful! I love food that looks like it was extruded from a play-doh machine!

    1. I can’t speak for the owners, but I’m guessing the name is in reference to the Imperial pint, which is 1/8th of an Imperial gallon, and is the standard English beer serving size.

        1. Look no further than 355 Peachtree Street. The Imperial Hotel is located next to the Basilica, Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. It has been redeveloped as apartments and is on the National Registry of Historic Places (whoo whoo).

          Before that it was a flop house. I would hope the name association ends there, but not with me.

          1. I associate the name with Chrysler Corporation’s crown jewel marquis that experienced a final and agonizing death in the mid 80s.

          2. Tangent story: We got married at that church as the deal to renovate the Imperial was being put together. When they were examining the property records they found that a tiny portion of the hotel crossed over onto the church’s property and they needed to get an easement in order to secure their financing.

            The priest who married us was seizing the opportunity to trade a top floor apartment in the refurbished building in exchange for the easement. Not sure if he ever got it, though.

  50. I’d love to see some discussion on the redesign of that whole intersection during the public hearing process…

    1. Mead & College? It’s just a corner. Are you perhaps referring to College/Olympic/Atlanta, where you cross the tracks between College & Howard? If so, then there is a proposed design for revamping the whole thing, it’s in the big, slow train of projects that are on the books.

      1. Found it, but have no idea if this link will take you to it (or if this will turn out to be a link).
        http://www.decaturga.com/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=1223

        If not, go to http://www.decaturga.com and click on ‘Residents’ and then ‘Master Plans’ and then ‘Community Transportation Plan.’ In the chapter on Streets/Recommendations you will find the Atl Ave/College Ave/Olympic Pl/Howard Ave/CSX railroad intersection, the fifth one addressed.

  52. Man, all this talk about bars on a Friday has got me THIRSTY, I tell ya.

    Anyone want to meet me at a Decatur bar and get rowdy???

    1. Any local joints have a shuffleboard bowling machine? It has to have the “Flash” option.

      2. Not that I know of. I think the Independent used to have one until someone broke it. You can play the real shuffleboard at Twain’s, although they have some kind of rule that to play you must wear either skinny jeans or Emory fraternity/sorority clothing. The particular brand of annoying a-hole you must be obviously corresponds to which clothing option you choose. This is why I stick to darts…

    2. Yeah, man! Rowdy at 2 *PM* is perfectly acceptable 😉

      Of course, Trackside doesn’t open til 3. And last time I tried to gin up support (pun totally intended) for a FFAF happy hour, Token was the only one to show up. But if you get anyone to seriously say they will be at Trackside, Twains, Mac Mcgee’s or Brick Store any time after 4:00, I’m in. And a bonus to the first pserson who chooses one of the first two and wants to challenge me at darts…

  54. Ridiculous. I would beg to have a pub, tavern, bar, Imperial closer to my house. In fact, I have been begging for someone to move into the vacant space in the Publix mall. That place on the corner has been empty since Blue Elephant left and it is perfect for a pub. Hey, it should even be in the city limits pretty soon!

  56. My husband talked to the owner of the then unnamed Imperial, who described it as a Chicago-style, kid-friendly, neighborhood pub.

Comments are closed.