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	<title>Comments on: Emory Officially Backs Clifton Corridor Transit Initiative</title>
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	<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/</link>
	<description>Decatur Georgia News, Events, Atlanta News</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Boatright</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127113</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Boatright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You can add more buses but you won’t get as many people to get on them...&quot;

Actually, and surprisingly to me, you are incorrect (if I&#039;m reading your statement correctly). Emory&#039;s shuttles to satellites, including MARTA, are absolutely packed. Every one that they add gets filled.

As to getting 400 people on a train versus a series of buses, I&#039;m not convinced that that is a useful datum if bus and shuttles run frequently enough. Frequency can be addressed for a fraction of the billion dollar cost for the short train route.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can add more buses but you won’t get as many people to get on them&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, and surprisingly to me, you are incorrect (if I&#8217;m reading your statement correctly). Emory&#8217;s shuttles to satellites, including MARTA, are absolutely packed. Every one that they add gets filled.</p>
<p>As to getting 400 people on a train versus a series of buses, I&#8217;m not convinced that that is a useful datum if bus and shuttles run frequently enough. Frequency can be addressed for a fraction of the billion dollar cost for the short train route.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Boatright</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127108</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Boatright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But let’s extend the same argument to rail. If the government subsidy of roads has proven to be inefficient and detrimental to our cities (congestion and sprawl), why would you think the result will be any less efficient with the same government oversight of rail transit. Let’s make them both private and let the markets decide.&quot;

Where to start with this mash-up.

The assumption that government subsidy of roads leads to inefficiencies: Please walk me through this argument.

From this assumption, which I see no reason to give credence to, you then jump to another assumption, that is, IF government subsidy of one activity leads to a problem, the government _oversight_ in another area will result in the same problem. You&#039;ll have to walk me through that one, too. 

Nestled in there is the additional assumption that somehow a rail-based transit system will be subject to the same challenges as a road-based one. That&#039;s a third thought process you&#039;ll have to give me some help with.

And finally, in this era of absolute failure of the market system, of big business failing in the presence of increasing DEregulation, you&#039;ll really have to walk me through the assumption that somehow market-based forces will magically avoid problems that you&#039;re projecting onto government involvement in future transit solutions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But let’s extend the same argument to rail. If the government subsidy of roads has proven to be inefficient and detrimental to our cities (congestion and sprawl), why would you think the result will be any less efficient with the same government oversight of rail transit. Let’s make them both private and let the markets decide.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where to start with this mash-up.</p>
<p>The assumption that government subsidy of roads leads to inefficiencies: Please walk me through this argument.</p>
<p>From this assumption, which I see no reason to give credence to, you then jump to another assumption, that is, IF government subsidy of one activity leads to a problem, the government _oversight_ in another area will result in the same problem. You&#8217;ll have to walk me through that one, too. </p>
<p>Nestled in there is the additional assumption that somehow a rail-based transit system will be subject to the same challenges as a road-based one. That&#8217;s a third thought process you&#8217;ll have to give me some help with.</p>
<p>And finally, in this era of absolute failure of the market system, of big business failing in the presence of increasing DEregulation, you&#8217;ll really have to walk me through the assumption that somehow market-based forces will magically avoid problems that you&#8217;re projecting onto government involvement in future transit solutions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Boatright</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Boatright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, a lot of Emory people have _already_ given up their cars. Will the trend continue? If past performance is any indication, yes. As transportation alternatives have been developed, people have slowly migrated away from single-occupancy vehicles. The satellite shuttle system in particular seems to be working well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, a lot of Emory people have _already_ given up their cars. Will the trend continue? If past performance is any indication, yes. As transportation alternatives have been developed, people have slowly migrated away from single-occupancy vehicles. The satellite shuttle system in particular seems to be working well.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127010</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127010</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking as a MARTA commuter who works at Emory, I can tell you that it&#039;s mostly about frequency, because frequency creates convenience. If people have to wait more than 5 minutes for a ride, they&#039;ll go back to driving. I have a coworker who lives in Candler Park who tried MARTA for one day. It took her 45 minutes to get here -- not bad for MARTA. It then took her two hours to get home, and she never tried it again. Many of my coworkers will not even take the campus shuttle because it only runs every 20 minutes.

I live in Midtown, three blocks from the train station. A typical commute is like this: I leave my house at 8:20, and arrive at the Lindbergh station to catch the 8:45 bus. It takes 15-20 minutes to get to my office (1762 Clifton Road), so I arrive just after 9 a.m. That&#039;s a 40 minute commute (driving would be about 15 minutes). 

To get home, it&#039;s best to leave at 4:55 (not on the same days when I arrive at 9!) because after 5 the bus is usually delayed due to traffic downroute at Ponce &amp; Briarcliff. Some days it&#039;s a 5 minute wait. Some days it&#039;s 40. The ride to Lindbergh Center is often a few minutes longer in the evenings (traffic, I guess?) and then there&#039;s a wait for the train southbound. Usually I arrive home at about 5:40, but if it&#039;s a bad day it can be over an hour before I&#039;m home. 

Also note that this only works when arriving and departing at rush hours. MARTA service is reduced after 7 p.m. and buses are scheduled every 40 minutes at that point. It makes it extra-difficult when I try to stay for a late meeting or a yoga class. I can&#039;t imagine what hospital workers and janitorial staff must go through.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a MARTA commuter who works at Emory, I can tell you that it&#8217;s mostly about frequency, because frequency creates convenience. If people have to wait more than 5 minutes for a ride, they&#8217;ll go back to driving. I have a coworker who lives in Candler Park who tried MARTA for one day. It took her 45 minutes to get here &#8212; not bad for MARTA. It then took her two hours to get home, and she never tried it again. Many of my coworkers will not even take the campus shuttle because it only runs every 20 minutes.</p>
<p>I live in Midtown, three blocks from the train station. A typical commute is like this: I leave my house at 8:20, and arrive at the Lindbergh station to catch the 8:45 bus. It takes 15-20 minutes to get to my office (1762 Clifton Road), so I arrive just after 9 a.m. That&#8217;s a 40 minute commute (driving would be about 15 minutes). </p>
<p>To get home, it&#8217;s best to leave at 4:55 (not on the same days when I arrive at 9!) because after 5 the bus is usually delayed due to traffic downroute at Ponce &amp; Briarcliff. Some days it&#8217;s a 5 minute wait. Some days it&#8217;s 40. The ride to Lindbergh Center is often a few minutes longer in the evenings (traffic, I guess?) and then there&#8217;s a wait for the train southbound. Usually I arrive home at about 5:40, but if it&#8217;s a bad day it can be over an hour before I&#8217;m home. </p>
<p>Also note that this only works when arriving and departing at rush hours. MARTA service is reduced after 7 p.m. and buses are scheduled every 40 minutes at that point. It makes it extra-difficult when I try to stay for a late meeting or a yoga class. I can&#8217;t imagine what hospital workers and janitorial staff must go through.</p>
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		<title>By: unclecharlie</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127009</link>
		<dc:creator>unclecharlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good thing Mayor Hartsfield found the &quot;solution of (Atlanta&#039;s) congested traffic problems.&quot;

Talk of the trollies always make me think of my dad when he would reminisce about how great it was to take the trolly from Buckhead all the way down to College Park and the Georgia Military Academy on his own every day -- a safe, predictable adventure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thing Mayor Hartsfield found the &#8220;solution of (Atlanta&#8217;s) congested traffic problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>Talk of the trollies always make me think of my dad when he would reminisce about how great it was to take the trolly from Buckhead all the way down to College Park and the Georgia Military Academy on his own every day &#8212; a safe, predictable adventure.</p>
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		<title>By: unclecharlie</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-127003</link>
		<dc:creator>unclecharlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 15:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-127003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can add more buses but you won&#039;t get as many people to get on them and every one of them will still have to stop on the side of the road blocking a lane of traffic every time they let somebody on or off. 

The average yearly number of riders for MARTA trains is roughly equal to the yearly number of riders for buses, but trains only cover 48 miles while the buses cover 1000 miles per day.  There are not going to be any new roads or many new lanes into this area.  It is just too dense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can add more buses but you won&#8217;t get as many people to get on them and every one of them will still have to stop on the side of the road blocking a lane of traffic every time they let somebody on or off. </p>
<p>The average yearly number of riders for MARTA trains is roughly equal to the yearly number of riders for buses, but trains only cover 48 miles while the buses cover 1000 miles per day.  There are not going to be any new roads or many new lanes into this area.  It is just too dense.</p>
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		<title>By: brianc</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-126975</link>
		<dc:creator>brianc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-126975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think there is any question that it has to be rail, not busses,  to get a white collar workforce out of their cars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there is any question that it has to be rail, not busses,  to get a white collar workforce out of their cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Mises</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2011/07/19/emory-officially-backs-clifton-corridor-transit-initiative/#comment-126974</link>
		<dc:creator>Mises</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-126974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The free market solution to transportation is obscured by the history of government subsidy and intervention.  You claimed that it was government subsidy of roads that killed the electric trolley system which was private.  Private roads are constructed all the time.  Look at Disney World.  Let’s save that discussion for later.

The best history of Atlanta public transit is “The Trolley Titans” by E.O. Carson.  It’s a bit pricey because it’s a collectible but there is a copy in the Decatur Library in the Special Collections Room.  Regarding congestion, below is a quote from that book by Mayor Hartsfield, during the December 20, 1943 City Council Meeting,

“the complete substitution of trackless trolleys and gasoline motor buses  for street railway transportation on all remaining street railway lines in the City of Atlanta, wherever practicable, would be a long step forward in the modernization of Atlanta’s transportation facilities and the solution of it’s congested traffic problems.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The free market solution to transportation is obscured by the history of government subsidy and intervention.  You claimed that it was government subsidy of roads that killed the electric trolley system which was private.  Private roads are constructed all the time.  Look at Disney World.  Let’s save that discussion for later.</p>
<p>The best history of Atlanta public transit is “The Trolley Titans” by E.O. Carson.  It’s a bit pricey because it’s a collectible but there is a copy in the Decatur Library in the Special Collections Room.  Regarding congestion, below is a quote from that book by Mayor Hartsfield, during the December 20, 1943 City Council Meeting,</p>
<p>“the complete substitution of trackless trolleys and gasoline motor buses  for street railway transportation on all remaining street railway lines in the City of Atlanta, wherever practicable, would be a long step forward in the modernization of Atlanta’s transportation facilities and the solution of it’s congested traffic problems.”</p>
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