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	<title>Comments on: Superintendent Recommends K-3 Redistricting Map #9</title>
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	<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/</link>
	<description>Decatur Georgia News, Events, Atlanta News</description>
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		<title>By: karass</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77189</link>
		<dc:creator>karass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 05:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  &quot;....imagine if they decided to close Oakhurst now. After all of the work and investment of energy of so many parents, teachers and kids, it would (be) hard. Westchester was just as vibrant and as integral a part of its neighborhood.&quot;:  

Thank you for saying that, especially as someone from another neighborhood.  Westchester was truly vibrant, so much so that many of us were naive and sure that rational people could work out a solution that would achieve CSD&#039;s goals for the southside without destroying what was working so well (and not just for Westchester-area families, but also for Gateway Homes families, some of whom came to meetings about the closing of Westchester and signed the petition to keep it open.)  That&#039;s why I think it&#039;s worth the extra time to tweak this reconfiguration plan and/or the accomodations to it (e.g. what happens to third graders).  Evidently the tweakings of the options have made those Oakhurst families assigned to Winnona Park satisfied, if not ecstatic, if the postings on this blog are representative.  Now, let&#039;s see if that can be done for Willow/Eastland/Pensdale or any other area that has big concerns, without negatively impacting another area.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  &#8220;&#8230;.imagine if they decided to close Oakhurst now. After all of the work and investment of energy of so many parents, teachers and kids, it would (be) hard. Westchester was just as vibrant and as integral a part of its neighborhood.&#8221;:  </p>
<p>Thank you for saying that, especially as someone from another neighborhood.  Westchester was truly vibrant, so much so that many of us were naive and sure that rational people could work out a solution that would achieve CSD&#8217;s goals for the southside without destroying what was working so well (and not just for Westchester-area families, but also for Gateway Homes families, some of whom came to meetings about the closing of Westchester and signed the petition to keep it open.)  That&#8217;s why I think it&#8217;s worth the extra time to tweak this reconfiguration plan and/or the accomodations to it (e.g. what happens to third graders).  Evidently the tweakings of the options have made those Oakhurst families assigned to Winnona Park satisfied, if not ecstatic, if the postings on this blog are representative.  Now, let&#8217;s see if that can be done for Willow/Eastland/Pensdale or any other area that has big concerns, without negatively impacting another area.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Stubbs</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77149</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Stubbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nicely put.  Stay warm.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely put.  Stay warm.</p>
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		<title>By: Decatur Metro</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77144</link>
		<dc:creator>Decatur Metro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, I represent that remark as a member of a relatively new young family in that neighborhood!  And as we&#039;re all sharing personal experiences, I&#039;d like to throw in that there are quite a few young fams here.  I&#039;m probably on a first-name basis with about a dozen of &#039;em. I always thought that the main reason there were more young families in Oakhurst than up here, is because almost all the houses are built out up here - thanks to forward thinking builders from the late &#039;30s who put in those huge, expandable attics - and lots of &#039;em go on the market starting at $500,000. 

I recall looking at the schools when we bought here, and thought it sorta weird that my hypothetical kid would go to Oakhurst.  But only because it seemed sorta far away.  Once I saw that it performed on par or better than the other K-3s, I was perfectly satisfied.  Would I have been more satisfied with Westchester as my elementary school?  Eh...perhaps.  I admit that I didn&#039;t experience all the solid and deep relationships that seem to have developed at Westchester before it was broken up, but at first glance - that&#039;s what we&#039;re talking about here right? - Westchester kinda stinks because it&#039;s on Scott Boulevard.  I know Karass says it&#039;s not bad walking down Scott, but I do it frequently and I don&#039;t enjoy it.  So for me, Westchester is nearly as inaccessible as Oakhurst.

Beyond all that, I think you have a valid point about people recognizing what was lost for what was gained.  Unfortunately most conversations about this topic don&#039;t get to this point.  They usually orbit in the &quot;personal experiences&quot; realm and how Oakhurst was a booming toddler-town before the reconfig or how great life was post-reconfig and how people were pulling &quot;For Sale&quot; signs outta lawns to get their kids into the school.

That&#039;s why we all get a vote.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I represent that remark as a member of a relatively new young family in that neighborhood!  And as we&#8217;re all sharing personal experiences, I&#8217;d like to throw in that there are quite a few young fams here.  I&#8217;m probably on a first-name basis with about a dozen of &#8216;em. I always thought that the main reason there were more young families in Oakhurst than up here, is because almost all the houses are built out up here &#8211; thanks to forward thinking builders from the late &#8217;30s who put in those huge, expandable attics &#8211; and lots of &#8216;em go on the market starting at $500,000. </p>
<p>I recall looking at the schools when we bought here, and thought it sorta weird that my hypothetical kid would go to Oakhurst.  But only because it seemed sorta far away.  Once I saw that it performed on par or better than the other K-3s, I was perfectly satisfied.  Would I have been more satisfied with Westchester as my elementary school?  Eh&#8230;perhaps.  I admit that I didn&#8217;t experience all the solid and deep relationships that seem to have developed at Westchester before it was broken up, but at first glance &#8211; that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re talking about here right? &#8211; Westchester kinda stinks because it&#8217;s on Scott Boulevard.  I know Karass says it&#8217;s not bad walking down Scott, but I do it frequently and I don&#8217;t enjoy it.  So for me, Westchester is nearly as inaccessible as Oakhurst.</p>
<p>Beyond all that, I think you have a valid point about people recognizing what was lost for what was gained.  Unfortunately most conversations about this topic don&#8217;t get to this point.  They usually orbit in the &#8220;personal experiences&#8221; realm and how Oakhurst was a booming toddler-town before the reconfig or how great life was post-reconfig and how people were pulling &#8220;For Sale&#8221; signs outta lawns to get their kids into the school.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why we all get a vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Stubbs</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77131</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Stubbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I helped with the buildout of the Phoenix School in the heart of Oakhurst in the early 1990s.  I served as its president and worked to build scholarships for neighborhood kids and to attract more active young families to the neighborhood.  I read to 1st graders in kindergarten at Oakhurst and coached kids from all over Decatur in soccer and basketball.  I could not be more ecstatic with the continuing growth of great, committed parents and their wonderful kids in Oakhurst.  
Your note brings up an interesting point.  Did the reconfiguration bring new kids, or just shuffle them around Decatur?  It certainly made the area behind Westchester -- a previous prime spot for families with kids -- less attractive.  Parents paid dearly to be nestled right behind a school where their kids could walk through the woods to class for six years.  Their school was booming and well integrated, but was closed by fiat.  I don&#039;t think I know of anyone with young children moving there now.  Conversely, the same government act made it relatively easier for folks in Oakhurst to walk to school from Oakhurst, so more families with kids look there. Net gain or just shuffling?  I don&#039;t know, but I do know that real estate agents saw that kind of shift. 
The term &quot;drink the kool aide&quot; is used when someone&#039;s statement speaks more about what they want to believe, than the hard data to support their contention.  Your experience is not what I was talking about.  I am certain you see more folks around Oakhurst with buggies and school aged kids today than five years ago.  What I was talking about is making policy based pronouncements on skimpy anecdotal data, such as &quot;the reconfiguration led to more students coming to Decatur,&quot; is not very carefully premised. The fact that more folks with buggies are running around Oakhurst could be due to many factors, absolutely including the (perceived increased) strength of Oakhurst.  But other huge factors include the general trend of moving inside the beltway and the specific trend of Oakhurst&#039;s gentrification that was well underway before the two-grade school came into existence.  As I said above, it also includes folks who might have located behind Westchester, but chose Oakhurst to be closer to their school.  That&#039;s a lot of currents in the river and untangling their effect seems a bit bold in the absence of clear data.  
Finally, as to being &quot;hurtful,&quot; imagine if they decided to close Oakhurst now. After all of the work and investment of energy of so many parents, teachers and kids, it would hard.  Westchester was just as vibrant and as integral a part of its neighborhood.  Before folks stand and crow about the wonders of the reconfiguration, I&#039;d be more careful about the data to support the claims and more respectful of those who lost much.  No doubt there were benefits.  They came at a cost, though.  Just be a little respectful of those who bore the costs and everyone can celebrate the wonders that you are building every day with your kids in the schools.  We can also find common ground on ways to make the system even better for those that come next.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I helped with the buildout of the Phoenix School in the heart of Oakhurst in the early 1990s.  I served as its president and worked to build scholarships for neighborhood kids and to attract more active young families to the neighborhood.  I read to 1st graders in kindergarten at Oakhurst and coached kids from all over Decatur in soccer and basketball.  I could not be more ecstatic with the continuing growth of great, committed parents and their wonderful kids in Oakhurst.<br />
Your note brings up an interesting point.  Did the reconfiguration bring new kids, or just shuffle them around Decatur?  It certainly made the area behind Westchester &#8212; a previous prime spot for families with kids &#8212; less attractive.  Parents paid dearly to be nestled right behind a school where their kids could walk through the woods to class for six years.  Their school was booming and well integrated, but was closed by fiat.  I don&#8217;t think I know of anyone with young children moving there now.  Conversely, the same government act made it relatively easier for folks in Oakhurst to walk to school from Oakhurst, so more families with kids look there. Net gain or just shuffling?  I don&#8217;t know, but I do know that real estate agents saw that kind of shift.<br />
The term &#8220;drink the kool aide&#8221; is used when someone&#8217;s statement speaks more about what they want to believe, than the hard data to support their contention.  Your experience is not what I was talking about.  I am certain you see more folks around Oakhurst with buggies and school aged kids today than five years ago.  What I was talking about is making policy based pronouncements on skimpy anecdotal data, such as &#8220;the reconfiguration led to more students coming to Decatur,&#8221; is not very carefully premised. The fact that more folks with buggies are running around Oakhurst could be due to many factors, absolutely including the (perceived increased) strength of Oakhurst.  But other huge factors include the general trend of moving inside the beltway and the specific trend of Oakhurst&#8217;s gentrification that was well underway before the two-grade school came into existence.  As I said above, it also includes folks who might have located behind Westchester, but chose Oakhurst to be closer to their school.  That&#8217;s a lot of currents in the river and untangling their effect seems a bit bold in the absence of clear data.<br />
Finally, as to being &#8220;hurtful,&#8221; imagine if they decided to close Oakhurst now. After all of the work and investment of energy of so many parents, teachers and kids, it would hard.  Westchester was just as vibrant and as integral a part of its neighborhood.  Before folks stand and crow about the wonders of the reconfiguration, I&#8217;d be more careful about the data to support the claims and more respectful of those who lost much.  No doubt there were benefits.  They came at a cost, though.  Just be a little respectful of those who bore the costs and everyone can celebrate the wonders that you are building every day with your kids in the schools.  We can also find common ground on ways to make the system even better for those that come next.</p>
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		<title>By: Harpua</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77122</link>
		<dc:creator>Harpua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that your suggested reasoning for Map 9 is probably accurate.  In this redistricting discussion (and in the location of pre-k classrooms debate), Clairemont parents have often voiced concerns about potential overcrowding of their facility, which I think I&#039;ve heard has smaller classrooms than some of the other school facilities.  They have also stated that trailers shouldn&#039;t be used there because they take up too much of the relatively small playground area.  Both are valid concerns.  Map 9 seems to keep diversity fairly balanced among the schools while also trying to address these overcrowding concerns.

I know it&#039;s been said there are just 14 students on these streets.  But, if 3 students were enough to tip the balance on needing an entire extra classroom in map 4 vs. map 8, then these 14 students (probably 3 or 4 per grade level?) certainly have the potential to tip the balance on requiring a few extra classrooms down the road.

That said, if Clairemont parents as a whole are willing to take the trade-off of slightly higher enrollment (and thus a higher chance of trailers between now and the potential Westchester opening) in order to keep the historical school boundaries, I personally see no problem with it.  I&#039;m all for students going to their closest and easiest to get to school whenever possible.

For the administration&#039;s sake, though, I hope the trade-off is remembered if it does come to pass that Clairemont needs trailers again sooner rather than later.  I don&#039;t envy their job!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that your suggested reasoning for Map 9 is probably accurate.  In this redistricting discussion (and in the location of pre-k classrooms debate), Clairemont parents have often voiced concerns about potential overcrowding of their facility, which I think I&#8217;ve heard has smaller classrooms than some of the other school facilities.  They have also stated that trailers shouldn&#8217;t be used there because they take up too much of the relatively small playground area.  Both are valid concerns.  Map 9 seems to keep diversity fairly balanced among the schools while also trying to address these overcrowding concerns.</p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s been said there are just 14 students on these streets.  But, if 3 students were enough to tip the balance on needing an entire extra classroom in map 4 vs. map 8, then these 14 students (probably 3 or 4 per grade level?) certainly have the potential to tip the balance on requiring a few extra classrooms down the road.</p>
<p>That said, if Clairemont parents as a whole are willing to take the trade-off of slightly higher enrollment (and thus a higher chance of trailers between now and the potential Westchester opening) in order to keep the historical school boundaries, I personally see no problem with it.  I&#8217;m all for students going to their closest and easiest to get to school whenever possible.</p>
<p>For the administration&#8217;s sake, though, I hope the trade-off is remembered if it does come to pass that Clairemont needs trailers again sooner rather than later.  I don&#8217;t envy their job!</p>
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		<title>By: "Naaman" Gibbets</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77120</link>
		<dc:creator>"Naaman" Gibbets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77112</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77112</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, but &quot;drink the Kool-Aid&quot; is such an easy way to discredit something without actually having to go to the trouble of doing so!

TeeRuss, allow us to raise our glasses of Kool-Aid together in support of our shared experiences. I was in Oakhurst long before the reconfiguration and witnessed the arrival of quite a few of the &quot;limited options&quot; folks you refer to (that&#039;s our story, too). We knew them as we all had kids and, with notable exceptions here and there, we heard them fret over what they&#039;d have to do once their kids hit school age. Many said move, some said private. It wasn&#039;t until Julie Rhame and a small collection of other families emerged that the possibility of attending Oakhurst Elementary was ever explored in a meaningful way.

The organic changes they launched, I&#039;m sure, would have grown over time but it would have been slow. When the reconfig happened a year later, the tenor of the real estate market changed immediately. Where once folks of limited options came here in spite of the school, now people were coming here because of the school, which expanded the homebuyer pool considerably.

Tom, I know you disagree but I watched it with my own eyes. I won&#039;t be so bold as to call it a fact but it&#039;s clear as day as far as I&#039;m concerned.

TeeRuss, a toast: L&#039;chayim!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, but &#8220;drink the Kool-Aid&#8221; is such an easy way to discredit something without actually having to go to the trouble of doing so!</p>
<p>TeeRuss, allow us to raise our glasses of Kool-Aid together in support of our shared experiences. I was in Oakhurst long before the reconfiguration and witnessed the arrival of quite a few of the &#8220;limited options&#8221; folks you refer to (that&#8217;s our story, too). We knew them as we all had kids and, with notable exceptions here and there, we heard them fret over what they&#8217;d have to do once their kids hit school age. Many said move, some said private. It wasn&#8217;t until Julie Rhame and a small collection of other families emerged that the possibility of attending Oakhurst Elementary was ever explored in a meaningful way.</p>
<p>The organic changes they launched, I&#8217;m sure, would have grown over time but it would have been slow. When the reconfig happened a year later, the tenor of the real estate market changed immediately. Where once folks of limited options came here in spite of the school, now people were coming here because of the school, which expanded the homebuyer pool considerably.</p>
<p>Tom, I know you disagree but I watched it with my own eyes. I won&#8217;t be so bold as to call it a fact but it&#8217;s clear as day as far as I&#8217;m concerned.</p>
<p>TeeRuss, a toast: L&#8217;chayim!</p>
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		<title>By: TeeRuss</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2010/12/03/superintendent-recommends-k-3-redistricting-map-9/#comment-77105</link>
		<dc:creator>TeeRuss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-77105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom, once again I&#039;ve got to completely disagree with you.

Decatur was not an option for us in 2003, because homes on the northside were outrageously expensive, and Oakhurst&#039;s affordable homes were in an 80% reduced lunch elementary school district.  No one with better options (like we had with Mary Lin Elementary in Candler Park, which had taken over a decade to turn around organically) was going to move there.

The reconfig reshuffled the deck, and upgraded Oakhurst&#039;s desirability overnight.  Coupled with the affordability of the housing, it was a bargain move.  That&#039;s why we bought a house here in 2004.  The calculus was obvious, and we have many friends with similar stories and timelines.

The problem with the enrollment projections was that they were too humble in their estimation of the success of the reconfig.  They attracted a lot of people into affordable Oakhurst who wouldn&#039;t have otherwise come.  Sure, there were strollers everywhere back then, but that&#039;s the same story in East Atlanta, Grant Park, and other affordable intown neighborhoods with subpar schools.  In subpar school districts, once the kids outgrow the strollers, the families move to the burbs or explore private schools.  And existing families generally don&#039;t move in.  The reconfig changed all that here. 

And I&#039;d appreciate it if my personal experience is not labeled as &quot;drinking the kool aid&quot;.  Talk about being hurtful, unprovable, and likely wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, once again I&#8217;ve got to completely disagree with you.</p>
<p>Decatur was not an option for us in 2003, because homes on the northside were outrageously expensive, and Oakhurst&#8217;s affordable homes were in an 80% reduced lunch elementary school district.  No one with better options (like we had with Mary Lin Elementary in Candler Park, which had taken over a decade to turn around organically) was going to move there.</p>
<p>The reconfig reshuffled the deck, and upgraded Oakhurst&#8217;s desirability overnight.  Coupled with the affordability of the housing, it was a bargain move.  That&#8217;s why we bought a house here in 2004.  The calculus was obvious, and we have many friends with similar stories and timelines.</p>
<p>The problem with the enrollment projections was that they were too humble in their estimation of the success of the reconfig.  They attracted a lot of people into affordable Oakhurst who wouldn&#8217;t have otherwise come.  Sure, there were strollers everywhere back then, but that&#8217;s the same story in East Atlanta, Grant Park, and other affordable intown neighborhoods with subpar schools.  In subpar school districts, once the kids outgrow the strollers, the families move to the burbs or explore private schools.  And existing families generally don&#8217;t move in.  The reconfig changed all that here. </p>
<p>And I&#8217;d appreciate it if my personal experience is not labeled as &#8220;drinking the kool aid&#8221;.  Talk about being hurtful, unprovable, and likely wrong.</p>
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