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	<title>Comments on: Free-For-All Friday &#8211; 8/14/09</title>
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	<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/</link>
	<description>Community Smatter</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:48:56 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Degreatur</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15896</link>
		<dc:creator>Degreatur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15896</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d consider the north end of the MARTA line. I guess that&#039;s the Sandy Springs area.  The parks and trails along the Chattahoochee are beautiful, plus it&#039;s close to the mountains and, with MARTA, the commute to downtown isn&#039;t bad. Too bad there aren&#039;t any sidewalks up there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d consider the north end of the MARTA line. I guess that&#8217;s the Sandy Springs area.  The parks and trails along the Chattahoochee are beautiful, plus it&#8217;s close to the mountains and, with MARTA, the commute to downtown isn&#8217;t bad. Too bad there aren&#8217;t any sidewalks up there.</p>
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		<title>By: Degreatur</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15895</link>
		<dc:creator>Degreatur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15895</guid>
		<description>I think people can feel sympathy for the mentally ill and concern about a strange facility moving in next door to them at the same time. The feelings aren&#039;t mutually exclusive, nor is the latter reserved solely for bigots. Some facilities are more appropriate for residential neighborhoods than others, and as Amanda Thompson made clear, there&#039;s a lot of confusion about what type of facility this is. As far as I know, no one from this facility has met with the neighborhood association to explain what the facility does and who the residents are. Without that understanding, I think the concern of the residents around this facility is understandable. There are a lot of people coming in and out of this facility, some of whom wander around the neighborhood and some of whom look pretty medicated. And besides the large number of bagged trash in front of the house, there&#039;s also a consistent amount of trash dropped on the street from persons waiting for a bus. Finally, my understanding is that the GA Dept of Human Resources runs this facility and, considering how well the DHR cares for the mentally in its institutions (See the AJC&#039;s series on &quot;A Hidden Shame&quot;), I&#039;m not filled with confidence that it&#039;s vigilant in caring for those in the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people can feel sympathy for the mentally ill and concern about a strange facility moving in next door to them at the same time. The feelings aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive, nor is the latter reserved solely for bigots. Some facilities are more appropriate for residential neighborhoods than others, and as Amanda Thompson made clear, there&#8217;s a lot of confusion about what type of facility this is. As far as I know, no one from this facility has met with the neighborhood association to explain what the facility does and who the residents are. Without that understanding, I think the concern of the residents around this facility is understandable. There are a lot of people coming in and out of this facility, some of whom wander around the neighborhood and some of whom look pretty medicated. And besides the large number of bagged trash in front of the house, there&#8217;s also a consistent amount of trash dropped on the street from persons waiting for a bus. Finally, my understanding is that the GA Dept of Human Resources runs this facility and, considering how well the DHR cares for the mentally in its institutions (See the AJC&#8217;s series on &#8220;A Hidden Shame&#8221;), I&#8217;m not filled with confidence that it&#8217;s vigilant in caring for those in the community.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Gibbets</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15887</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Gibbets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15887</guid>
		<description>As far as I can tell, all our knees were tucked neatly under the table on this one.

I have known several people--including close family members--that have mental illness, but with this experience also comes the realization that people that suffer from mental illness can be unpredictable--which in turn leads to an uneasy feeling in the rest of us. That was, from my point of view, the gist of this thread. Sorry for the exhaustive treatment of this expired horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can tell, all our knees were tucked neatly under the table on this one.</p>
<p>I have known several people&#8211;including close family members&#8211;that have mental illness, but with this experience also comes the realization that people that suffer from mental illness can be unpredictable&#8211;which in turn leads to an uneasy feeling in the rest of us. That was, from my point of view, the gist of this thread. Sorry for the exhaustive treatment of this expired horse.</p>
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		<title>By: Decatur Metro</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15878</link>
		<dc:creator>Decatur Metro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15878</guid>
		<description>IMO, your story is the one people need to hear smalltowngirl.  &quot;Making noise&quot; can be useful, but often it just makes others defensive and they stop listening.  Thank you for sharing something that is obviously very personal part of your life.

The point about Decatur was a minor one obviously.  But the fact that you called it the city&#039;s &quot;unofficial tagline&quot; makes me think that we&#039;re on the same page.  I was only saying that it&#039;s not like it&#039;s the city&#039;s official marketing slogan.  It&#039;s what is transmitted word-of-mouth.  And it&#039;s no real surprise that reality doesn&#039;t match a Decatur cheerleader&#039;s limited perceptions.  But I&#039;ve belabored the point already too long.  

Again, thanks for giving more background on your situation.  Hopefully it will encourage some to rethink a knee-jerk reaction sometime in the near future.  I know I will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO, your story is the one people need to hear smalltowngirl.  &#8220;Making noise&#8221; can be useful, but often it just makes others defensive and they stop listening.  Thank you for sharing something that is obviously very personal part of your life.</p>
<p>The point about Decatur was a minor one obviously.  But the fact that you called it the city&#8217;s &#8220;unofficial tagline&#8221; makes me think that we&#8217;re on the same page.  I was only saying that it&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s the city&#8217;s official marketing slogan.  It&#8217;s what is transmitted word-of-mouth.  And it&#8217;s no real surprise that reality doesn&#8217;t match a Decatur cheerleader&#8217;s limited perceptions.  But I&#8217;ve belabored the point already too long.  </p>
<p>Again, thanks for giving more background on your situation.  Hopefully it will encourage some to rethink a knee-jerk reaction sometime in the near future.  I know I will.</p>
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		<title>By: smalltowngal</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15877</link>
		<dc:creator>smalltowngal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15877</guid>
		<description>Nobody enjoys a lecture, and I knew I was coming across in a strident tone. Please consider the pain and frustration that might lie behind it. As for Berry&#039;s defense of the neighbors who feel uneasy, empathy is generally a good thing. But a generation ago many people were uneasy around physically handicapped individuals, who were consequently marginalized to an extent that we find appalling today.  As a society, we have made huge strides toward overcoming that discrimination and the unease that lay behind it. Dare I hope that in my lifetime we can say the same about our attitudes toward the mentally ill? Not unless we consciously strive for it. People with physical disabilities became activists on their own behalf 20 and 30 years ago, and are usually able to talk back and stick up for themselves if they choose. People with mental illnesses don&#039;t dare to &quot;act out&quot; or engage in activism. The risk is too great of being re-diagnosed and winding up in even worse situations. Their challenge is to function and interact appropriately with the world, and learn NOT to struggle against it, no matter what. Plus, it is now against the law to discriminate against people with physical limitations. But try job-hunting with a mental health diagnosis on your record, even if it is one that is effectively managed through medication and/or therapy.

Yes, extremely ill people can be dangerous. But those who use this particular facility are not.

Full disclosure: I have a close relative who has battled mental illness for most of her life. The single biggest obstacle has been--and remains--convincing her to accept help. She feels so thoroughly stigmatized, as a mentally ill person, that she would rather be homeless than let her diagnosis be known so she can obtain treatment and support. As long as she doesn&#039;t get &quot;officially flagged,&quot; she can sustain a hope of one day resuming her career, finishing her doctoral thesis, getting her life back. But without professional help, none of that is ever going to happen. Her illness has grown severe enough that we have lost the daughter, sister, cousin that we knew, maybe forever. For her, and for us, the situation is something like a living death. And that&#039;s not hyperbole. That&#039;s our family&#039;s life. So yes, I&#039;m strident and prone to lecture.

Finally, Decatur most certainly DOES promote itself (and, to be honest, congratulate itself) as diverse. It&#039;s practically the unofficial tagline these days. I&#039;ll be the first to agree that means there is room for all kinds of perspectives. But IMO there is not a valid perspective that legitimizes discrimination against a group of people because they are different, and certainly not because they are ill. This isn&#039;t a &quot;progressive vs conservative&quot; debate. It&#039;s about making noise to let some people know they unwittingly touched a very tender nerve; and hopefully help folks realize that nerve is exposed for a lot more of their friends and neighbors than they might suspect. (That was why I quoted the statistics that some apparently found so onerous--read &#039;em again and do the math, and try to figure out who you know that&#039;s contending with mental illness, their own or a loved one&#039;s, and never mentioned it to you.) There are more than you think.

If anyone read all the way to this point, I appreciate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody enjoys a lecture, and I knew I was coming across in a strident tone. Please consider the pain and frustration that might lie behind it. As for Berry&#8217;s defense of the neighbors who feel uneasy, empathy is generally a good thing. But a generation ago many people were uneasy around physically handicapped individuals, who were consequently marginalized to an extent that we find appalling today.  As a society, we have made huge strides toward overcoming that discrimination and the unease that lay behind it. Dare I hope that in my lifetime we can say the same about our attitudes toward the mentally ill? Not unless we consciously strive for it. People with physical disabilities became activists on their own behalf 20 and 30 years ago, and are usually able to talk back and stick up for themselves if they choose. People with mental illnesses don&#8217;t dare to &#8220;act out&#8221; or engage in activism. The risk is too great of being re-diagnosed and winding up in even worse situations. Their challenge is to function and interact appropriately with the world, and learn NOT to struggle against it, no matter what. Plus, it is now against the law to discriminate against people with physical limitations. But try job-hunting with a mental health diagnosis on your record, even if it is one that is effectively managed through medication and/or therapy.</p>
<p>Yes, extremely ill people can be dangerous. But those who use this particular facility are not.</p>
<p>Full disclosure: I have a close relative who has battled mental illness for most of her life. The single biggest obstacle has been&#8211;and remains&#8211;convincing her to accept help. She feels so thoroughly stigmatized, as a mentally ill person, that she would rather be homeless than let her diagnosis be known so she can obtain treatment and support. As long as she doesn&#8217;t get &#8220;officially flagged,&#8221; she can sustain a hope of one day resuming her career, finishing her doctoral thesis, getting her life back. But without professional help, none of that is ever going to happen. Her illness has grown severe enough that we have lost the daughter, sister, cousin that we knew, maybe forever. For her, and for us, the situation is something like a living death. And that&#8217;s not hyperbole. That&#8217;s our family&#8217;s life. So yes, I&#8217;m strident and prone to lecture.</p>
<p>Finally, Decatur most certainly DOES promote itself (and, to be honest, congratulate itself) as diverse. It&#8217;s practically the unofficial tagline these days. I&#8217;ll be the first to agree that means there is room for all kinds of perspectives. But IMO there is not a valid perspective that legitimizes discrimination against a group of people because they are different, and certainly not because they are ill. This isn&#8217;t a &#8220;progressive vs conservative&#8221; debate. It&#8217;s about making noise to let some people know they unwittingly touched a very tender nerve; and hopefully help folks realize that nerve is exposed for a lot more of their friends and neighbors than they might suspect. (That was why I quoted the statistics that some apparently found so onerous&#8211;read &#8216;em again and do the math, and try to figure out who you know that&#8217;s contending with mental illness, their own or a loved one&#8217;s, and never mentioned it to you.) There are more than you think.</p>
<p>If anyone read all the way to this point, I appreciate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Decatur Metro</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15871</link>
		<dc:creator>Decatur Metro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15871</guid>
		<description>Also I think it&#039;s more productive to understand where the fear is coming from and then trying to reconcile it, instead of classifying them in one judgmental category.  There&#039;s a level of insult in these arguments that makes me uneasy.

Also, I&#039;m wondering if I&#039;m the only one getting a little tired of the &quot;Decatur promotes itself as BLANK, but it&#039;s actually a bunch of freaking BLANKS.&quot;  

First off, Decatur doesn&#039;t promote itself as progressive, all-accepting, etc.  It&#039;s just known for that because it is those things in comparison to other cities across GA and the U.S. But don&#039;t fall for all the word of mouth PR.  Decatur isn&#039;t just one viewpoint.  As we&#039;ve established here frequently, Decatur is a complex mess of all viewpoints just like everywhere else,...just some more than others.  And thank goodness for that.  Without the more conservative-minded the progressives would dream themselves to the point of destruction, while without the progressives the conservatives would resist change to the point of destruction. 

As Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and many of the founders saw, the safest answer is somewhere in the compromise.  When there&#039;s no one there to challenge you, you&#039;re almost doomed to failure eventually.  

So thank goodness for the discourse and civil discord.  I wouldn&#039;t want Decatur to be any less of a complex mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also I think it&#8217;s more productive to understand where the fear is coming from and then trying to reconcile it, instead of classifying them in one judgmental category.  There&#8217;s a level of insult in these arguments that makes me uneasy.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m wondering if I&#8217;m the only one getting a little tired of the &#8220;Decatur promotes itself as BLANK, but it&#8217;s actually a bunch of freaking BLANKS.&#8221;  </p>
<p>First off, Decatur doesn&#8217;t promote itself as progressive, all-accepting, etc.  It&#8217;s just known for that because it is those things in comparison to other cities across GA and the U.S. But don&#8217;t fall for all the word of mouth PR.  Decatur isn&#8217;t just one viewpoint.  As we&#8217;ve established here frequently, Decatur is a complex mess of all viewpoints just like everywhere else,&#8230;just some more than others.  And thank goodness for that.  Without the more conservative-minded the progressives would dream themselves to the point of destruction, while without the progressives the conservatives would resist change to the point of destruction. </p>
<p>As Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and many of the founders saw, the safest answer is somewhere in the compromise.  When there&#8217;s no one there to challenge you, you&#8217;re almost doomed to failure eventually.  </p>
<p>So thank goodness for the discourse and civil discord.  I wouldn&#8217;t want Decatur to be any less of a complex mess.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Gibbets</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15870</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Gibbets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15870</guid>
		<description>I think berry was just trying to show some empathy with people who feel uneasy around mentally ill persons. And saying that the uneasiness they feel does not necessarily make them prejudiced, but also, I think, it doesn&#039;t really warrant another lecture with statistics from NIMH.

Frequently, throughout history, mentally ill people have proven to be dangerous--not all of them, again, not ALL of them, but some of our best and brightest freaks have, sometimes obviously, been mentally ill. So within a community you are bound to get some level of uneasiness.

Also, for what it&#039;s worth, I have a theory that everyone is mentally ill--you, she, he, me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think berry was just trying to show some empathy with people who feel uneasy around mentally ill persons. And saying that the uneasiness they feel does not necessarily make them prejudiced, but also, I think, it doesn&#8217;t really warrant another lecture with statistics from NIMH.</p>
<p>Frequently, throughout history, mentally ill people have proven to be dangerous&#8211;not all of them, again, not ALL of them, but some of our best and brightest freaks have, sometimes obviously, been mentally ill. So within a community you are bound to get some level of uneasiness.</p>
<p>Also, for what it&#8217;s worth, I have a theory that everyone is mentally ill&#8211;you, she, he, me.</p>
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		<title>By: smalltowngal</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/08/14/free-for-all-friday-81409/#comment-15868</link>
		<dc:creator>smalltowngal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=7705#comment-15868</guid>
		<description>&quot;I could see where this might make some people uneasy but I do not feel it justifies being called a bigot.&quot;

If a person in a wheelchair or wearing a leg brace approached these neighbors&#039; doors, would they become uneasy? What about someone with both arms in casts?

Bigotry is probably not the best term for what I&#039;m smelling. Maybe prejudice or discrimination is more precise. Whatever you want to call it, there&#039;s no place for it in a community that points with pride to its own diversity and tolerance.

For that matter, there&#039;s no place for it anywhere. According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH): &quot;An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness. In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44. Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.&quot;

Homeless shelters are full of people whose problems are rooted in untreated mental illness. Jails are full of people who are not criminal, but are non-functioning due to untreated mental illness. One reason is the lack of resources allocated to diagnosis and treatment. Another is the incredibly powerful stigma associated with mental illness that prevents sufferers from seeking or accepting help. Imagine what our society would be like if people with physical disorders and disabilities were as starved for treatment and resources as those with mental problems. Now imagine what things would be like if we supported treatment and resources for the mentally ill the same way we do for the physically ill.

What if one of the people using that wellness center was a close relative of yours? How would you want the neighbors to perceive and respond to him or her? Withdraw in wariness? Or greet them with kindness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I could see where this might make some people uneasy but I do not feel it justifies being called a bigot.&#8221;</p>
<p>If a person in a wheelchair or wearing a leg brace approached these neighbors&#8217; doors, would they become uneasy? What about someone with both arms in casts?</p>
<p>Bigotry is probably not the best term for what I&#8217;m smelling. Maybe prejudice or discrimination is more precise. Whatever you want to call it, there&#8217;s no place for it in a community that points with pride to its own diversity and tolerance.</p>
<p>For that matter, there&#8217;s no place for it anywhere. According to the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH): &#8220;An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness. In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44. Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Homeless shelters are full of people whose problems are rooted in untreated mental illness. Jails are full of people who are not criminal, but are non-functioning due to untreated mental illness. One reason is the lack of resources allocated to diagnosis and treatment. Another is the incredibly powerful stigma associated with mental illness that prevents sufferers from seeking or accepting help. Imagine what our society would be like if people with physical disorders and disabilities were as starved for treatment and resources as those with mental problems. Now imagine what things would be like if we supported treatment and resources for the mentally ill the same way we do for the physically ill.</p>
<p>What if one of the people using that wellness center was a close relative of yours? How would you want the neighbors to perceive and respond to him or her? Withdraw in wariness? Or greet them with kindness?</p>
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