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	<title>Comments on: Reconfiguration Informational/Listening Session Wednesday</title>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/03/22/reconfiguration-informationallistening-session-wednesday/#comment-7489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-7489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DD, you&#039;re correct that those are the standards but the state standards are based on the &quot;there&#039;s always more land&quot; regional (some might say &quot;sprawl&quot;) consumption model where schools are physically separated from the subdivisions they serve. They have no business entering a discussion involving traditional city neighborhoods.

Even sticking with our specific local context, we can still argue against or for Renfroe on a number of different levels. For better or worse, Decatur is Decatur and certainly doesn&#039;t adhere to any Georgia &quot;standard&quot; I&#039;ve ever seen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DD, you&#8217;re correct that those are the standards but the state standards are based on the &#8220;there&#8217;s always more land&#8221; regional (some might say &#8220;sprawl&#8221;) consumption model where schools are physically separated from the subdivisions they serve. They have no business entering a discussion involving traditional city neighborhoods.</p>
<p>Even sticking with our specific local context, we can still argue against or for Renfroe on a number of different levels. For better or worse, Decatur is Decatur and certainly doesn&#8217;t adhere to any Georgia &#8220;standard&#8221; I&#8217;ve ever seen.</p>
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		<title>By: decaturdad</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/03/22/reconfiguration-informationallistening-session-wednesday/#comment-7488</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[decaturdad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-7488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And here is a little more from the guidelines.  I would think that CSD would be wise to consider the opinion of the state DOE on this issue.

_______________________________________________________________________

A good, well-developed site and a well-equipped, functionally designed school plant is a basic physical tool for a quality education. Without one or the other, the educational program may suffer. Current school programs include many activities that must be carried on outside the walls
of the physical plant. Well-planned and properly developed outdoor areas are essential to support outdoor activities, provide vehicular circulation, adequate and convenient parking and also be conducive to the safety of children. The site is an integral part of the total school plant
and may enhance or inhibit the achievement of a school’s educational objectives.
Environment is an influential factor in the lives of young children. Therefore, the school site should contribute positively to the health, safety and social aspects of a child’s life at school. Choosing a good site is one of the important early steps in overall planning. Success or failure in
this initial step will be reflected in every subsequent stage in the developmental process.  For these reasons, the choice of a school site requires careful study, including a thorough and objective evaluation. Much thought should be given to the basic principles involved in good site
selection.

These principles, when studied in the light of their relation to the local situation, should provide a basis for the objective selection of the best site available. Undue consideration given to the value or acquisition cost of a school site can be false economy, and often has proven to be very
expensive.

___________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here is a little more from the guidelines.  I would think that CSD would be wise to consider the opinion of the state DOE on this issue.</p>
<p>_______________________________________________________________________</p>
<p>A good, well-developed site and a well-equipped, functionally designed school plant is a basic physical tool for a quality education. Without one or the other, the educational program may suffer. Current school programs include many activities that must be carried on outside the walls<br />
of the physical plant. Well-planned and properly developed outdoor areas are essential to support outdoor activities, provide vehicular circulation, adequate and convenient parking and also be conducive to the safety of children. The site is an integral part of the total school plant<br />
and may enhance or inhibit the achievement of a school’s educational objectives.<br />
Environment is an influential factor in the lives of young children. Therefore, the school site should contribute positively to the health, safety and social aspects of a child’s life at school. Choosing a good site is one of the important early steps in overall planning. Success or failure in<br />
this initial step will be reflected in every subsequent stage in the developmental process.  For these reasons, the choice of a school site requires careful study, including a thorough and objective evaluation. Much thought should be given to the basic principles involved in good site<br />
selection.</p>
<p>These principles, when studied in the light of their relation to the local situation, should provide a basis for the objective selection of the best site available. Undue consideration given to the value or acquisition cost of a school site can be false economy, and often has proven to be very<br />
expensive.</p>
<p>___________________________________________________________________</p>
<p>______________________________________________________________________</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: decaturdad</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/03/22/reconfiguration-informationallistening-session-wednesday/#comment-7487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[decaturdad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-7487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting that we would lump 1400 kids together on 4 acres right as they are all going through puberty.. I would think that kids are the most high maintenance at this age (I know my oldest was) so why cram them all in on top of each other.  Let&#039;s see, 4 acres for 1400 kids.  That&#039;s 350 hormonal kids who are trying to figure out who they are and where they fit in the world.......  per acre.  And we are committing ourselves to that scenario for decades if not longer.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

BTW, below are the minimum school site size guidelines from the GA DOE.  Decatur has waivers and grandfathering so that all of this does not apply to us.  However, it gives an idea of what the State considers sufficient land size for educating children.   If we were to build a school meeting state DOE guidelines we would need somewhere between 17 and 26 acres.  We have only 4 acres.  Here is the quote from the guidelines......
_______________________________________________________________________
&quot;The minimum acreage requirements of the State Board of Education are:

Elementary Schools - five acres plus one acre for each 100 children in FTE.
Middle Schools - 12 acres plus one acre for each 100 children in FTE.
High Schools - 20 acres plus one acre for each 100 students in FTE.

In developed areas, deviations from the minimum acreage requirements may be made by the site approval committee if the reduced acreage is considered appropriate.

Although minimum acreages are established, large acreages are highly desirable. Also, those responsible for selecting sites must remain aware of development limitations imposed by certain physical factors of the acreage being considered. The size of the school may not be the only criterion affecting site size. The possibility of expansion, anticipated community use of the school or area, and the school program are other factors to consider.
______________________________________________________________________

Seems to me that we might not even be able to get approval from the DOE for putting 1400 kids on 4 acres.  Does anyone want to weigh in on that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that we would lump 1400 kids together on 4 acres right as they are all going through puberty.. I would think that kids are the most high maintenance at this age (I know my oldest was) so why cram them all in on top of each other.  Let&#8217;s see, 4 acres for 1400 kids.  That&#8217;s 350 hormonal kids who are trying to figure out who they are and where they fit in the world&#8230;&#8230;.  per acre.  And we are committing ourselves to that scenario for decades if not longer.</p>
<p>It makes no sense to me whatsoever.</p>
<p>BTW, below are the minimum school site size guidelines from the GA DOE.  Decatur has waivers and grandfathering so that all of this does not apply to us.  However, it gives an idea of what the State considers sufficient land size for educating children.   If we were to build a school meeting state DOE guidelines we would need somewhere between 17 and 26 acres.  We have only 4 acres.  Here is the quote from the guidelines&#8230;&#8230;<br />
_______________________________________________________________________<br />
&#8220;The minimum acreage requirements of the State Board of Education are:</p>
<p>Elementary Schools &#8211; five acres plus one acre for each 100 children in FTE.<br />
Middle Schools &#8211; 12 acres plus one acre for each 100 children in FTE.<br />
High Schools &#8211; 20 acres plus one acre for each 100 students in FTE.</p>
<p>In developed areas, deviations from the minimum acreage requirements may be made by the site approval committee if the reduced acreage is considered appropriate.</p>
<p>Although minimum acreages are established, large acreages are highly desirable. Also, those responsible for selecting sites must remain aware of development limitations imposed by certain physical factors of the acreage being considered. The size of the school may not be the only criterion affecting site size. The possibility of expansion, anticipated community use of the school or area, and the school program are other factors to consider.<br />
______________________________________________________________________</p>
<p>Seems to me that we might not even be able to get approval from the DOE for putting 1400 kids on 4 acres.  Does anyone want to weigh in on that?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grass is greener</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/03/22/reconfiguration-informationallistening-session-wednesday/#comment-7486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grass is greener]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-7486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Plus, I hear IB is more expensive. Not to mention we are nationally recognized for our EL programs now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plus, I hear IB is more expensive. Not to mention we are nationally recognized for our EL programs now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Garrett Goebel</title>
		<link>http://www.decaturmetro.com/2009/03/22/reconfiguration-informationallistening-session-wednesday/#comment-7485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Garrett Goebel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.decaturmetro.com/?p=20705#comment-7485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[E: Thank you for your post

As primary grade parents we are told constantly about the considerable overlap between EL and IB, and how one reinforces the other. Can you tell us:
o  How EL and IB PYP are different?
o  What would be lost if 4th and/or 5th grade went from IB to EL?
o  Wouldn&#039;t the IB PYP teachers still be able to bring their IB training and experience to bear in an EL classroom?

One of the positive outcomes I see for K-4,5-8 is that the loss of IB PYP would force us to get IB MYP in the door at the high school. Because we are told that we can not implement only a couple years of one IB program at one school unless it feeds into another. Doing so, might also hasten the day when we see the IB Diploma Program for grades 11 and 12.

Another reason for K-4&#039;s from my perspective, is that we would wind up with more small neighborhood schools with smaller grade sizes, and longer grade spans. How important from your professional perspective as a teacher are the relative values associated with small school size in comparison to instructional curriculum?

I strongly believe that small schools and small school districts are more responsive to the needs of the children, the parents, and the community. Conversely, I worry that larger schools will lead to children lost in the cracks and diminish the voice of parents as well. By moving to Decatur many of us literally bought into the idea that academic success is strongly correlated with school size.

So, the thing which I have the hardest time compromising on is 4-8@Renfroe. Not so much for the mix of grades which span the onset of puberty... But more for the large school and large grade sizes. And the implication that building there will commit us at a future date to yet larger schools and more grades under a single roof.

I&#039;ve already asked about the relative value of small schools. What are your thoughts on the relative costs of large schools?

I too hope that parents, teachers, central office, and the community can find common ground and work positively toward a consensus. Thank you for participating in this dialogue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E: Thank you for your post</p>
<p>As primary grade parents we are told constantly about the considerable overlap between EL and IB, and how one reinforces the other. Can you tell us:<br />
o  How EL and IB PYP are different?<br />
o  What would be lost if 4th and/or 5th grade went from IB to EL?<br />
o  Wouldn&#8217;t the IB PYP teachers still be able to bring their IB training and experience to bear in an EL classroom?</p>
<p>One of the positive outcomes I see for K-4,5-8 is that the loss of IB PYP would force us to get IB MYP in the door at the high school. Because we are told that we can not implement only a couple years of one IB program at one school unless it feeds into another. Doing so, might also hasten the day when we see the IB Diploma Program for grades 11 and 12.</p>
<p>Another reason for K-4&#8217;s from my perspective, is that we would wind up with more small neighborhood schools with smaller grade sizes, and longer grade spans. How important from your professional perspective as a teacher are the relative values associated with small school size in comparison to instructional curriculum?</p>
<p>I strongly believe that small schools and small school districts are more responsive to the needs of the children, the parents, and the community. Conversely, I worry that larger schools will lead to children lost in the cracks and diminish the voice of parents as well. By moving to Decatur many of us literally bought into the idea that academic success is strongly correlated with school size.</p>
<p>So, the thing which I have the hardest time compromising on is 4-8@Renfroe. Not so much for the mix of grades which span the onset of puberty&#8230; But more for the large school and large grade sizes. And the implication that building there will commit us at a future date to yet larger schools and more grades under a single roof.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already asked about the relative value of small schools. What are your thoughts on the relative costs of large schools?</p>
<p>I too hope that parents, teachers, central office, and the community can find common ground and work positively toward a consensus. Thank you for participating in this dialogue.</p>
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