I’m pretty jazzed that this is coming up again soon. I was just thinking about my old roundabout idea the other day! I can’t believe it’s been 10 years. From the AJC…
Decatur has recently hired a consultant to provide master planning services for updating the community transportation plan. Community input meetings should begin in late August or September.
…“Some of the things I think you’ll see with the new plan include better street crossings,” Planning Director Angela Threadgill said. “I think you’ll see enhancing of the Safe Routes to School program. We’d like to create some off-street pathways, and I think you’ll start to see sharrows [lanes for both cars and bikes] disappear. They are nationally falling out of favor.”
The final plan needs approval from the city commission. Threadgill believes the community input process should take 10 months and finish by late next spring.
Photo courtesy of DM
Ah, for the good old days, when the Sharrows on Ponce were visible.
Not only have most of the sharrows markings worn away, the fake brick treatment for that crosswalk broke apart and was removed to be replaced by one of the new heat-applied plastic designs (which is already beginning to peel at one end).
Big fan of your roundabout idea. Also interested in hearing more about possible locations for the off-street pathways.
The one I’m most excited about is the proposal to extend the existing cemetery creek trail further south past Glenwood Elementary to connect with Ponce. Were that to be completed, walkers and bikers could go from Ponce almost all the way to The Comet without getting on either Commerce or Church, and kids from Glenwood Estates could walk to school on a nature trail.
I think it would require purchased easements at the very rear of four lots between the creek and the school. They’re very, very deep lots so maybe the owners would be willing to part with 20 or 30 feet at the very back if the price was right. Hoping so.
+1 on the roundabout! That would be GREAT!! I missed that post back in 2011, but ever since Emory Village got the roundabout years ago, I’ve wanted one at this downtown Decatur intersection.
If more round-abouts are created, could they be functional versus the one at Ponce de Leon Place and Oakland St? The one where you still have to stop. That defeats the purpose of the round-about.
I’ve read that the original plans for that traffic circle actually called for it to be a true roundabout without stop signs. How it ended up as it did I do not know, but somewhere along the way it’s purpose seemingly became only to deter through traffic, especially trucks or larger vehicles that have a difficult time navigating it.
Some Dreams:
1. Make Ponce a pedestrian mall from Commerce on the West to Church on the East (allow trucks for businesses to access)
2. Make current parking in front of Brick Store a splash pad and add trees (re-purposed for food trucks, etc during festivals)
3. A la Boulder and other places, make parking in parking lots FREE on weekends to encourage people from all over to come downtown and spend $$.
These are all fabulous ideas!!!!!
Those are good ideas. I would rather have a pedestrian mall on Ponce and keep all lanes on commerce open to car traffic. (There really needs to be a good traffic study though, it seems there are so many things happening at once that are interconnected) And we do need something to draw customers to shop here. Decatur has lost quite a bit of retail and it would be nice to have some more.
I would caution pedestrian malls, there are a LOT of studies out there about how pedestrian malls kill retail. There are a lot of cities where they have gotten rid of ped malls to bring back vehicular traffic. Buffalo, Sacramento, Kalamazoo among others have reopened their streets to cars to help revitalize them.
Keep in mind, Decatur may be very very walkable, but for a vast majority of people have to drive to downtown to enjoy that walkablilty.
All that said there are successful ped malls in some cities, Charlottesville, Burlington and Times Square in NY.
Somehow that balance is struck where it works, but its a big gable and an investment of our tax dollars should it fail in Decatur.
I would lean towards a Shared Space or Woonerf for downtown:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf
This way when the city closes down the streets for festivals it would create a nice clean open plaza with no curb and gutter to deal with as a pedestrian also allowing for a more flexibility of space. They could then test drive the idea of permanently closing the street down to see how it would affect business downtown before fully committing to a true pedestrian mall.
just my 2¢
I’m not sure that there is enough retail activity to turn Ponce from Commerce to Church into a pedestrian zone. Ponce from Commerce to the Old Courthouse doesn’t have many storefronts. However, I do think that a shared space model would be very intriguing. Turning the roundabout parking thing in front of the Brick Store into a green space or a plaza and woonerfing (if I can make that a verb) Ponce from Commerce to Church could be nice. I can already sense the car-only people working up unsubstantiated claims about how bad this would be for people trying to drive or park.
I have always wanted a pedestrian mall on Ponce. Maybe the city could close off Ponce from Church to Clairmont from Friday around 5pm till Sunday evening on a trial basis and see how this impacts the businesses on the square.
Really not much parking from Church to Clairmont anyway and added seating could be a plus for the business owners. Might be cool if Brick Store and other restaurants offered some kind of take-out option that you could get your beer and food and go find a nearby seat. Not sure how this would jive with liquor laws though.
No to pedestrian malls. Streets that carry all kinds of traffic are important. If you make the infrastructure design good for pedestrians, cyclists, and cars and you create an attractive urban design with the storefronts, then you have a great downtown. We have that without limiting the rights-of-way. Improve the area above MARTA if you want an improved pedestrian-only space.
Agreed. To add to Amanda’s comment below, we already have a pedestrian mall that was formed when MARTA closed Sycamore from Church to McDonough. But more important, if we want to learn from history, is that that closure contributed greatly to the downtown death spiral that lasted another 20 years. It wasn’t until the city invested almost $5 million to undo the mall’s problems and the property owners along there finally managed a healthy mix of the few types of businesses that can work well in those circumstance — destination restaurants and transit-rider convenience items in particular — that we finally turned it around.
No doubt that pedestrian malls can and do thrive — and there’s a number of them nationally that I’ve toured and appreciated — but the conditions for them to do so are very specific. Decatur doesn’t qualify.
I cite Columbia SC as a colossal failure. There are others as well. Hybrids can be very successful – look at Greenville SC.
I think a focus on pedestrian traffic throughout the city (not just downtown) over bike traffic, which has been the focus, would be good. And how about something for the drivers–there are a bunch of intersections that could use left turn signals especially on College Ave and Trinity. Probably others that I’m not as familiar with.
Still love the round-a-bout idea. Also love that our former planning manager used to provide official responses to ideas on this site. I miss Amanda.
Hi, it’s Amanda, your former Planning Director. I miss you too! Decatur is full of residents who care and want to be involved which is challenging, but also made my job a lot of fun. I normally wouldn’t comment, but I can’t help myself when it comes to transportation planning. I understand the desire for a pedestrian mall and Decatur has one – it’s where Sycamore Street used to extend to the courthouse. The city doesn’t have the people density to support closing down West Ponce to traffic, nor do we have a good alternative for delivery trucks if it was closed down. The last thing you want to see is an escaped beer keg rolling into a stroller because you have to accommodate deliveries in a pedestrian only zone.
Woonerfs are a lovely and I thought about that for years. I couldn’t solve our stormwater problem with a curb-less street design. I tried to convince our Engineering department to create a type of curb that would act as a sponge so it would be flat when it was dry and soak up water in the rain and then release it slowly. That idea obviously went nowhere! I think there is a market for new stormwater solutions that allow for flexible street design in Georgia. Can someone get on that please?
Decatur is in great hands with the current City Commission and staff. I visit all the time and love seeing all the changes. Have fun with the transportation plan!
Woonerf – great term! Decatur: Home of the Artisnal Woonerf
I’m interested in how this study will deal with the new school on Talley Street and the new park on S. Columbia. Walkability in those areas is low, and they will become a lot more important over the next 2 years.
We’re doing another transportation master plan! Can I bring the last one to the sessions? What the city’s residents need to think about is multi-faceted: the intense construction surrounding the city, the cut-through traffic and speed, public transportation from downtown Decatur to commercial area of Oakhurst, and parking issues with the popularity of our city. This on top of sidewalk safety and plant growth, biking, and then Scott Boulevard (ugh).
Yes! I came in here to suggest some kind of shuttle around Decatur. We need some kind of short-distance public transit that will complement MARTA. MARTA is designed for commuters, and it is difficult to use as a means of transit to get around town (both inside Decatur and downtown Atlanta). Maybe roughly a figure 8 route that covers the edges of the city and crosses through the center of town to give neighborhoods better access to coming in to shop/dine in the Square, East Decatur Station area and Oakhurst. I think a lot of residents now running errands and driving would use a small bus-type shuttle.
There seems to be a lot of support and emphasis on improving the ability to walk and bike around town – which I definitely support – but it is not always feasible.
I am against putting pedestrian traffic over bicycle traffic. Pedestrians need to be aware & remember the old adage, “Look both ways before crossing.”
I am very much against the roundabout idea. They are dangerous.
I am, also, not for pushing bicycles off the roads. A road like Clairemont should offer something more for bicyclists~ especially as antibicycle speedbumps pop up on side roads. ~Sideroads are bicyclists’ friends. Speedbumps are not. They are dangerous, destructive & detrimental! However, Commerce should not be changed to a cyclotrack. The changes on Commerce on the other side of College (Talley) are very dangerous for bicyclists. As well as cars. Very poorly designed.
11 foot lanes are not a good idea. They make people nervous.
It is hoped that a revision, actually, does some revisions as some of the past ideas have been rather poor. This is only a starter list of what would be better & some of the ideas proposed that are not well thought out.
It is time for people to start driving properly. Just because the government (& special interests) have continued making onerous laws, does not mean accountability still does not belong with you. Speeds should reflect particular conditions, ie, rain, as well as time & amount of traffic. Particularly, as past road design is not faithfully followed, anymore.
It is time for people to put some money into making the right choices, as well. The adversarial conditions created are not welcoming. Spend the money & put bridges over roads if the concern is so severe for safety. Start designing roads to be used at usable speeds. Rather than the very dangerous idea of putting “furniture” in the roads, put the effort into road incline, & other such technical avenues that actually create safer roads rather than making them even more of a war zone.
The revisions should reflect American (Usonian) landscape & drivers, bicyclists, not European standards made for much different vehicles, landscapes. As well as respecting the bicyclists now on the road, not an imaginary one that “might” come out. Decatur & surrounding area could be the most beautiful place for bicycling, but has moved in the wrong direction in a lot of ways in the past quarter century.
“I am very much against the roundabout idea. They are dangerous.”
Robert, can you elaborate your statement that roundabouts are dangerous. I have always heard that roundabouts are safer than stop sign or signal-controlled intersections. Are you coming at this from just the view of a pedestrian or cyclist?
I really think there are intersections in Decatur where roundabouts would make intersections safer for vehicular traffic and alternative pathways could be designed for pedestrians and cyclists.
Safest Roundabout Design for cyclists. The best of Dutch infrastructure is worth emulating.
https://youtu.be/q664_GjTyoE
Tpreed–thanks for posting that link–really interesting video. Kinda makes me want to move to The Netherlands!
And in Bruge, Belgium right-of-way order is pedestrian, bicycle, car, then commercial buses/trucks. Bikes do not get to “ignore” the pedestrians.
Vehicular cycling! Let’s make the roads safe, again!
“Community input meetings should begin in late August or September.”
Does one have to be a resident of Decatur to provide input for Decatur’s Community Transportation Plan or is the process open to any special interest group in the greater Atlanta metro area or beyond?
If the process is open only to Decatur residents, how is residency in Decatur verified?
Open to the public, whoever that may be.
Thanks Rival. Input has an effect on outcomes. Currently, congestion in the Atlanta Metro area comes at a cost of approximately $1,130 per commuter annually.
For Decatur residents – If input is open to anyone (online as well?) and It is not known whether the input is coming from Decatur residents or non residents, how is the input process equitable for Decatur residents?
Alternatively, how can results reflect the perspective of Decatur residents and taxpayers if it is not known who is providing the input substantiating a perspective (and subsequent outcome)?
I believe the city’s online input (Open City Hall) categorizes input by resident and non-resident. Meetings have sign-in sheets which may ask for address (I can’t recall) so, assuming people are honest, there should be a general sense of where the input’s coming from.
I was at the city planning workshop for East Decatur Station many years back. There were a number of people there from the subdivisions along Katie Kerr (just outside Decatur). The message that was given was basically “of course we’re interested in any ideas to make this project stronger but know that, ultimately, whatever decisions get made will be made in service of Decatur residents.”
Thanks Scott. My recollection is that there are/were complaints about petitions related to this current topic and past city ordinances (input) containing signatures of non residents and also those who sign anonymously. Experience teaches that when individuals are passionate about an issue(s), systems and processes can be manipulated (input ) for desired outcomes.
Input:
http://www.decaturish.com/2014/03/bad-praise-road-diet-plan/
Outcome:
http://www.decaturish.com/2016/09/church-street-residents-concerned-about-traffic-created-by-development/