UPDATED: Decatur Annexation Legislation Area is 66% Commercial

86 thoughts on “UPDATED: Decatur Annexation Legislation Area is 66% Commercial”

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2. But are they counting apartments as commercial? And are the apartments under-construction being counted at all?

   1. Your spot on BrianC – (Come on DM dig deeper)

      In my opinion the city does not have a good track record when it comes to clearly defining property types. Particularly when it comes to mixed use and Apartment projects. They seem to throw that fully into commercial… to benefit their biased analysis.

      Rather than just a headline on the so called mix, the city should provide revised financial and enrollment projections. But I doubt they’ll do that as the story is only getting worse.

      1. I get that apartment complexes aren’t purely commercial or residential because, on the one hand, there’s no homestead exemption for rentals, but on the other hand they do add some kids to the schools. The ones being built downtown don’t concern me (because of the higher % of 1br units and the relatively high rents), but the existing ones possibly being annexed, as well as the ones being built in the proposed annex, have a higher % of 2 and 3 bedroom units and are likely to attract more people with kids once they are in CSD. I’d at least like to know if the new complex next to Patel Plaza is even being counted in the projections for additional students

         1. People can live with kids in a one bedroom apartment too. It is whatever is needed to make the education work for their kids.

            1. Yeah, but I’d have to think that would be very uncommon. For the prices apartments go for around here, one could find bigger units in districts that aren’t much different in school quality.

               1. Where, if they want to be ITP? And I am sorry, there is going to be fraud going on in those units.

   2. Ms. Merriss confirmed that apartments classify as commercial. She also added that they”also very low utilization rates for schools.” She said she would have a breakdown for us this weekend.

      1. “She also added that they”also very low utilization rates for schools.” ”

         I’m sure that’s true of the (few) complexes in the current city limits, but I’m skeptical that will be true of those in the proposed annex, for the reasons I mention in my post above. I drive by complexes in DeKalb that are in desirable districts (or even marginal ones) and for some of them it takes two busloads to service one complex. Not saying that will happen here (the rental price hikes will probably limit the number of families), but there’s going to be some impact.

         1. There are lots of kids in the complexes by the big Kroger. I rented there a few years ago. They’re actually quite popular among families with children.

      2. “Ms. Merriss confirmed that apartments classify as commercial.”

         It shouldn’t be too much trouble for them to add one more category to the breakdown and separate out apartments as a percentage. It doesn’t really make sense to include them as commercial (except to make the numbers look better), though I understand they’re not typical residential either. Call it “Non-homestead residential.”

   3. Yes they are counting apartment complexes as commercial. It’s complete nonsense. Their numbers are based upon the kids in apartments now and the current population of smaller homes, which are going to be torn down and replaced with McMansions.

      It is really disappointing when our leaders have to resort to questionable accounting to cover for a bad plan that was very poorly executed politically. In the middle of annexation, Avondale Estates had its Mayor resign, they had commercial property owners publicly come out and say they would rather be in Decatur and their own rep would not even agree to submit their bill. However, at the end, they don’t have to downsize their commercial at all and get Drenner to move a lot of their residential to Decatur. Our leaders say 70% of what they asked for, with perhaps a revenue negative mix, is success. Its not.

   4. Decatur you are taking money from the poor and racially diverse. Your $ 7.6 million per year will shift to your rich schools 27% of the entire budget for the seven schools in the druid hills cluster just to your north. You are taking only 300 students from that cluster into Decatur but taking funding that will affect all 5,000 students in the cluster. The cluster is majority minority where Decatur is monolithic and much less diverse. The cluster has four Title I (impoverished) schools and Decatur has none. You are taking it away from 60,000 residents to your north to reduce taxes for your 19,000. Druid Hills graduates less than 70 % of students while Decatur is above 95% (good job). You have become increasingly isolated from the poor and diverse. I know you all are better than this but just unaware of these facts. I know you do not want to hurt the poor and diverse by implementing this annexation of dekalb’s commercial property. Please step up for the poor and diverse. your leadership has been blinded by complaints about taxes, you have one of the highest per student funding levels in the state, twice that of those just across n Decatur road. Please contact Rep Karla Drenner and tell her you do not feel right about this.

4. Deapite repeated efforts from residents located in Zone A of Decatur’s plan, Rep. Mosby has been unresponsive. As a result we are currently left on an Unincorporated island in this plan. This is unfair to our neighborhood and our families.

   1. Sounds like your beef is with Rep Mosby.

   2. We feel the same in Zone B. Especially, when the end of our street is COD, and across Scott Blvd from our street is COD.
      As it stands now, the proposed plan looks like over-promising and under-delivering

   3. Sounds like we need to replace Mosby with someone who will meet the needs of his community!

      1. We hope that he does represent us. If he does not, it’s a small district and many are upset.

   4. By my reading of Georgia law, an annexation that would create an unincorporated island is prohibited. At least based on the document below.

      Everything you ever wanted to know about annexation laws and methods (up to date?) is in the 136 page PDF downloadable here.

      http://www.gmanet.com/Advice-Knowledge/GMA-Publications/Growing-Cities,-Growing-Georgia-A-Guide-to-Georgia.aspx

   5. How is zone A now an island? Aren’t the other cityhood bills dead at this point?

      1. I don’t know, either, and I can’t keep track of the status of each proposal. But with last minute legislative changes, it is possible. Anyway, I’m just pointing out that apparently state law says an unincorporated island cannot be created via annexation.

      2. Nothing under the Gold Dome is dead until midnight on the 40th day “Sine die”.

   6. It is not unfair. You bought a house where you did. You cannot rely on annexation when you choose where to live. What is unfair is that Merriss is again pushing through an ill-thought plan with potential huge negative impact on the RESIDENTS of Decatur, most of whom don’t want annexation.

6. This sounds like a very reasonable plan, especially given that a bill with no residential at all is just not politically feasible. I think karla Drenner, the sponsor of the bill, did it just right. Commercial areas can also be rezoned to be used for a school, I think, contributing to our long term sustainability.

   1. Hello Decatur Terrace resident

      1. Like

8. Decatur Metro: Did she clarify whether these percentages based on geographic area or number of units (or some other measure)? If geographic area, then these numbers are of little use, since the annexation proposal includes a large number of apartments, which are high-density. Can you obtain clarification as to what these percentages represent?

   1. Yep. See the update.

      1. Thanks very much.

10. This ratio of commercial to residential, is that describing the percentage of revenue? For example, does the cited “85 percent residential” mean that Decatur currently gets 85% of revenue from residential? Someone here claimed the city counts apartments as “commercial” because there is no homestead exemption. If that’s true, that revenue’s impact would at least be somewhat mitigated by the additional kids from the annexed apartment complexes.

    1. Read the update I just posted. Should help clarify things.

       1. Thanks for the update. Still would like to know if it’s true that apartment complexes are counted as commercial.

          1. Got it. Asking…

12. The only thing that matters is what is the revenue to be brought it versus the cost. I doubt this is even revenue positive. Peggy Merris should provide that information.

    1. Read the update I just posted.

       1. DM,

          As I read that, it only provides the gross revenue numbers and that the revenue will exceed associated costs. However, it does not provide the gross costs numbers so that one could see the margin. Since they have regularly provided the numbers of students they expect to come from a certain area and the cost per student as part of the fiscal analysis, can you ask Ms. Merris to provide these projected cost totals for the annexed property?

          If the net is very small, then I would suggest that the risk of annexation is not worth it because if the student population increases significantly (which is probable given current trends in Decatur) then this will be a bad deal for the city.

          Also, there are vague references to 2016. Is Decatur suggesting that it will try to get the current property this year and go back for Suburban Plaza and Area A later, or is this it?

14. As I’ve now said a bunch of times in response to comments, I’ve received a more detailed breakdown and further explanation from Ms. Merriss. See the update at the top of the original post.

16. Sure, it will exceed the school costs, if like Parkwoods, the number of school age children is fixed at 8. But, will it exceed the costs when the percentage of homes with school age children doubles in 5 years? No way they had proper time to study the demographics, prepare projections, etc.

    1. And as At Home in Decatur has pointed out, revenue aside, where do even a fairly small number of additional kids go in the immediate term? What happens if those large complexes suddenly fill up with kids once people find out they’re being annexed into CSD? How many years are we from a new school opening? Three at a minimum, I’d think.

       1. Great points. I don’t understand why the commissioners don’t use the power of deductive reasoning to realize this.

          1. You are making assumptions about the commissioners which have yet to be proven true.

       2. If finances were the only dimension to consider for public school systems, utilization rates and commercial vs. residential designation would be sufficient information. But school systems have to put every child in a seat, whether that child represents a large or small proportion of an area’s population. Even a tiny proportion of a large number of apartments yields a substantial number of students. Student seats require more than financing; they require physical space and school infrastructure and programs. The number of seats in a classroom affects the quality of instruction in that classroom. The number of seats in each school affects the atmosphere and culture in that school community. Even if DHS and Renfroe had acres and acres of space to put miles and miles of portables, at some point they would become too large to provide the friendly, high quality, and efficient academic, athletic, and social experience that they currently provide. Note that large universities break themselves down into smaller colleges or schools because an academic service unit can only get so big before it loses focus and operability. And of course we don’t have acres and acres of space for miles and miles of portables anyway.

          I am still not wise and informed enough to know whether the City of Decatur has to grow by annexation to survive or not. But I do know that apartments brings a substantial number of new students to COD, whether they represent a large or tiny proportion of the annexed residents. So the City and an already crowded CSD have to plan for where to seat those students.

          1. Wasn’t this issue already addressed by CSD? I seem to recall talk of an 18 month or 3 year or some kind of delay in offering school services to newly annexed areas, allowing time for a facilities response. Was I dreaming that?

             1. You’re not dreaming. They said that, maybe in a resolution. But I’m not sure that they can demand that. It would have to be in the annexation legislation that passed, right?

                1. Pretty certain they would not be able to do that.

             2. Yes, it seems like that would require some agreement and cooperation between Decatur and Dekalb, which I doubt will happen. It may not even be legal without special legislation. I don’t think Drenner’s bill addressed that issue.

                1. The transition time would be beneficial for DeKalb County schools too- they would get the school taxes for those properties and the fed dollars per school attendance days during the transition period, and have the extra time to plan for any schools they need to shut down and/or sell to other districts.

18. Does anyone know when these commissioners are up for re-election?

    1. Decatur Commissioners are elected in odd years, so some will be up for re-election this year, the others in 2 more years. You’re welcome to stand for a seat – very few people do other than the incumbents. And, BTW, did you vote in the last Decatur local elections?

       1. Am I also welcome to run for office?

          1. Any COD resident can qualify.

             1. Good points Steve. I did not. This time I am more motivated and wll get out to vote.

                1. If you vote, you can be one of the 20% who do.

                   1. I’m compiling a list of Apps That Would Actually Be Useful. Adding one that would enable anyone who voted at their most recent opportunity to add a little badge on their DM avatar. #GoVoteOrBeQuiet

                2. Vote for me!

20. Exceeds costs by how much? How many students are assumed to be in the revised annexed area? The projections in the initial annexation plan seemed way off. The “low” and “high” estimates were the same, about 500 students. That seems low, and now over 100 homes in Decatur Terrace are added. This appears to be a very reckless approach to a very important decision.

22. It seems like there has been a lot of jumping to conclusions and “the sky is falling” scenarios. Peggy Merris and Karla Drenner are both extremely competent and ethical Decaturites. The numbers look great to me. Go back and read the breakdown. The majority of the area being considered is Dekalb Medical Center, Patel Plaza, the Big Kroger shopping center, etc.. Our representatives are trying to get us the best possible deal that they can. I do not think anyone in Decatur government is trying to pull a fast one on the residents. This annexation will set us up next year to annex Suburban Plaza.

    1. Maybe no deal is better than the best deal they can get.

       Also, it is not being alarmist to point out the fact that a lot of people are trying to get into Decatur any way they can because of the schools and the failure of the surrounding area schools. Any projections that don’t account for this statistical fact are simply not credible. It’s why we have the school crisis in the first place.

       Good citizens are supposed to question what their leaders tell them, and the questions that Decaturites have about annexation on this board are, by and large, very reasonable, good faith questions.

    2. If competent means skilled at stealing over 7 million from a community of refugees, Title I schools, and majority below the poverty rate yes Ms. Drenner is highly competent I would agree.

24. Let’s be clear, the conclusion to Annex was determined from the beginning. It was known by city leaders that they would tee up their suggestions for annexation (pretty much a wish list) and would then lose all control in the final outcome. They’ve knowingly left a key pillar of the city’s fate in the hands of the representatives, who have little invested in COD or CSD success, or the wants of the relatively small constituency. The switcheroo was bound to happen. They made a call, I simply disagree with it.

    Also, I am not sure why anyone is shocked when regardless of the outcome it is framed as success by Ms. Merriss and her compadres.

    Take solace in this current COD residents. Our children will not be held back from success because of parcels that are included or not included. They will be successful if we invest in them with our time, energy, and love. Learning cottages or not.

26. 2015-2016 Regular Session – HB 432
    Annexation of territory; local Acts providing for deannexation of property from a municipality and annexation of same property to another municipality which are effective on the same day do not create a prohibited unincorporated island; provide

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20152016/HB/432

28. The question we all seem to be ignoring as to whether the current proposed annexation is a “good deal” for Decatur or not is “is this Decatur’s last chance for annexation.” The new proposed map may or may not be ideal, but it does appear that Decatur will be totally surrounded by other cities within a year or two. My personal guess is that the commissioners decided we needed to grow as much as we can now because we need whatever space we can get, even if it isn’t the exact space we want.

30. Does DeKalb Medical pay taxes, or is it part of the 6% exempt? I ask, because it is my understanding their facility across from the Baby Kroger is exempt.

    1. According to the Dekalb tax assessor’s website, the parcel where the hospital is located is owned by the Dekalb Hospital Authority and paid less than 12k in taxes last year. Looks like some type of exemption applies.

       1. I am pretty sure it is a nonprofit.

32. “Annexation is a long-term investment in the future of the City and the City Schools”

    Now this is the entire justification for annexation, some totally vague unarticulated vision for some new future city?

    The strategic plan clearly states that annexation is to be consider in an economic context.

    From the Strategic Plan –

    “Economic recommendations included promoting commercial and multifamily development on targeted sites, charging impact fees, and exploring annexation opportunities.” Further, “Explore annexation options in partnership with the City Schools of Decatur that expand the property tax base and enhance school operations.”

    Here are some of the questions that should be easily answered:

    1) How much is the city investing and how much will the schools be required to invest?
    2) How long will it take for the annexation to produce more revenue than expenses for the city and schools?
    3) Why are the residents of Decatur better off in the ‘long-term’ with annexation?
    4) What are the potential draw backs to annexation?
    5) How will this annexation improve school operations?
    6) What is wrong with our current boundaries and how does annexation solve those problems?

34. Unincorporated DeKalb County residents need a reality check. Their area will either become part of Tucker, Lavista Hills, Avondale, Decatur or whatever city is created in South DeKalb.

    It’s time for Decatur leadership to step up! We either find a way to grow as a community and expand the commercial tax base we need to be viable or we will get swallowed up by the other cities around us.

    And the city manager is a fool if she believes a strong school system won’t influence more students in the apartments.

    1. Name calling isn’t necessary, is it? I recognize the argument, but we don’t even know the 1 or 2 bedroom family breakdown at this point. We also don’t know how many families are living in 2 and 3 bedroom apartments in Decatur right now, do we? I agree that there will likely be more families in Decatur in apartments because of CSD – aka “Pat and Judd’s long-standing concern” – but I don’t think we’ve really quantified or proven any that at this point, have we?

       1. Student occupancy by property type has been quantified and shared with CSD and the City.

          It’s easy to do. The school system can pull a report of students by address with a few keystrokes.

          In the multifamily housing category the number of students per unit is inversely related to monthly rental rates.

          That is to say lower priced apartments have more students per apartment than higher priced apartments.

          Therefore it seems perfectly clear to me, based on prior analysis and common sense, that the number of students that will be added to CSD will be greater from the lower cost apartments located in the latest annexation areas.

          This may be one reason why Ms Merriss has consistently blurred the commercial/residential distinction. Using these terms to confuse the true ratio of non-residential commercial to residential is inappropriate at best and may be an intentional effort to justify annexation.

          For example, she has stated that the city has not converted commercial property to residential property. How can one reconcile that statement with the addition of many new residential units on commercial property in the current city limits and the developments underway in the proposed annexation areas. The Place on Ponce, Decatur Crossing and Fidelity in the first case and Fuqua and the new apartment complex adjacent to the auto dealers on Church in the second case.

          Additionally, because the units have lower rental rates, they have lower tax rates. As such they do not (and likely will never) cover the increased cost to CSD.

          I have yet to hear anything from the proponents of annexation that contradicts the simple fact that if we annex lower value properties we erode the financial standing of the schools and increase the tax burden of current residents.

          More students, less tax revenue than the current ratios is a bad move plain and simple.

36. I hope the c.o.d decreases its’ millage rate once the annexation occurs. The residents have paid the majority of the taxes far to long. Any new commercial annexation is welcome in my opinion. The current 85/15 is ridiculous.

    1. Check out new annexation map:http://www.decaturga.com/index.aspx?page=660
       Looks like what happened is that some residential areas were dropped (a and d) and decatur terrace area was added in their place. Seems like a wash, at least within the areas drenner represents. How does the breakdown of residential and commercial compare, i wonder, between maps? Was D that area that petitioned to NOT be included? DM, can you help?

       1. If B-3 is annexed, Decatur Wine and Spirits will actually be in Decatur!

          1. J&J Package Store on E. College was annexed and immediately closed. Does Decatur allow liquor stores? Or was it due to the higher taxes?

    2. R sizzle your post reflects an extraordinarily selfish point of view. There is a refugee community less than 3 miles from your home which is in dire need of these funds for their title I school in an attendance zone of greater than 40 percent minority. Decatur has become decidedly monolithic racially and uncaring about lower socioeconomic classes.

       1. “Decatur has become decidedly monolithic racially”
          I think you need to check the demographics of the school system before making such a rash statement. I believe you would find it untrue.

       2. I don’t care if you think it’s selfish or not. I’ve been paying a pile of $ in taxes the past 18 years to the c.o.d and we don’t have children. Common sense says that the millage rates should decrease with all of the new fair market value added to the tax rolls. And don’t forget that all of these parcels that are annexed in to the city are going to get a huge bump in equity immediately while the rest of us in the city chose to live there and bought at higher prices and have carried the races for years while Dekalb a County has become a cess pool. There’s a reason people are trying to get in our city.

          1. Taxes. Not races

       3. “There is a refugee community less than 3 miles from your home which is in dire need of these funds for their title I school in an attendance zone of greater than 40 percent minority. Decatur has become decidedly monolithic racially and uncaring about lower socioeconomic classes.”

          The statement suggests that the refugee community exerts a negative economic impact on their local community. It contradicts data indicating the fiscal impact of immigrants as a whole is positive, as the tax revenues generated by immigrants exceeds the cost of the government services they use. Alternatively, tax revenues generated do not exceed government services utilized.

          Decaturites are very giving in the taxes they provide at a local level and via the progressive rates many pay federally, which funds grants awarded from the Office of Refugee Resettlement.

38. Dear neighbors in Decatur. Are you aware that your annexation plan takes directly from the Dekalb County budget almost $ 8 million which is more than enough to operate our high school, Druid Hills High School and at least one elementary. The High School serves an area of greater than 60,000 people and the attendance zone has 5,000 students k-12. Decatur is only 19,000 population. The $ 8 million you are taking is 27% of the entire budget for the seven schools which are in the Druid Hills Cluster. Three of these schools are Title I. Five are majority minority. One has a refugee population trying to make it in this country of nearly 40 percent of their students, and have difficulty wih both English and integration. For a population less than a third of your neighbors you are proposing to take away directly enough money to run several of our schools. We already educate children with half the per pupil funding of Decatur. We have kids without textbooks, teachers without supplies, have been on accreditation probation, had five board members replaced by the governor, had a superintendent recently indicted. I do not know whether this blow to your neighbors can be withstood in light of all of this. Faced with these facts the Decatur friends I know would not only vote an annexation referendum down but would insist Rep. Drenner drop this bill. This is not growth it is parasitic government activity. Please think about this and let your conscience guide you.

    1. I have yet to talk to an average Decatur resident who wants annexation. I am with you.

    2. Your vitriol should be targeted at the worthless Dekalb school board and bureaucracy. They are failing you whole siphoning away funds from the classroom for jobs for their sycophants

       1. I agree. I don’t think annexation makes sense for Decatur based on faulty assumptions and projections.

          But as I understand it these city hood movements are intended to help replace incompetent and corrupt Dekalb county schools leadership. Annual indictments, felons in the highest leadership positions, millions paid out due to (valid) discrimination lawsuits , etc have resulted an increasingly poor education for the kids “Your Conscience” is talking about. If the entire county is annexed to various, smaller cities the hope is that tax funds could be better managed resulting in a better education for everyone. So Decatur is not “stealing” tax revenue. In the coming years, cities are instead intend to go up all over DeKalb to put a stop to Dekalb County “stealing” from its residents and lining their cronies’ pockets at the expense of the children. Ultimately it shouldn’t matter what city these kids are in– so long as they are not under the jurisdiction of Dekalb.

          1. New cities won’t be able to create their own school districts- only the residents annexed into Decatur and Atlanta will move into a new school district. The law may change to allow for additional city-only districts, but that will not happen anytime soon, so dysfunctional DeKalb Co schools will still be around.

    3. I don’t know of one citizen of Decatur that is in favor of this annexation plan. You need to appeal to Drenner and the CofD leaders to kill this bill.

40. Interesting that Drenner listened to the wishes od Decatur Terrace but not Rio Circle.

42. 66% commercial ….This is a bad deal for the unincoporated & DCSS. The CofD still has one hundred million dollars in borrowing ablity before it hits its limit. CofD with a tax digest of almost 1.4 billion does NOT need to annex to enhance its school system at the detriment of the unicorporated & DCSS.

44. November 2015 is non-Presidential election period.
    This means that 30-35% people in the annexation will vote.
    Out of the 30-35% people voting it will be 70-75% senior Citizens voting.
    There are four senior citizen communities that are in the annexation area.

    Good Luck.

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