Extremely cool, articulated street car!! Very European.
The Wonder of the Age! A Modern Miracle! Salvation of all our transportation woes.
Looking forward to seeing the first ridership figures after the novelty wears off.
Your tax dollars down the drain.
They’re spend bukus to house a lousy football team, so, hey, why not?
In other words, wasting money is what government does, so mission accomplished!
You want tax dollars down the drain? Try the 1 billion of our dollars being spent on a 285/400 interchange! And like everything else the government does, add 25% to the cost, when its all said and done.
I am so glad you guys weren’t standing around when the Wright brothers made their seconds long first flight.
It’s a start. The beginning of a network. Look past your naysaying noses and look to cities that are growing and thriving and use streetcars.
Amen. And besides, the measure of success is not so much whether or not ridership pencils out as it is impact on proximate, taxable real estate value. The Pearl District in Portland, as I understand it (haven’t been there or researched it much) is a contemporary example.
If the ridership numbers aren’t good, why would it increase adjacent property values?
At any rate, this sucker cost $100 million (and counting). If the goal was to increase proximate property values, this project has a very high hill to climb to be considered a worthwhile investment. I very seriously doubt it will get there.
You seriously doubt it. And I think it will ultimately be considered a worthwhile investment. We all have opinions.
“If the goal was to increase proximate property values, this project has a very high hill to climb to be considered a worthwhile investment. I very seriously doubt it will get there.”
It’s already done that.
Most of the funding came from the US Department of Transportation. Eventually they are going to want to see people riding it, or there will be no phase 2.
I love how you hear copious complaints about downtown Atlanta being so downtrodden often from THE SAME PEOPLE who complain when the city does something to stoke economic development. Those are the people who are seriously worth ignoring.
People don’t complain when the city does something to stoke economic development. Many just don’t see this boondoggle as one of those things.
There’s plenty of proof around the nation that a project like this will stoke economic development. How can you classify something as a boondoggle before it even opens, before you know the results? If you are whining and complaining before you know the results, then you are seriously worth ignoring.
Re: stoking” economic development: that’s an incredibly vague and probably unprovable claim, so I don’t know what “proof” you are talking about.
Why not stick with the ridership projections, which are 2,600 per day. If a year from now this section of the streetcar has not achieved the projection, will you admit it was a failure and the additional sections should not be built?
Nope. Not at all because that would be missing the point. Or multiple points. Re: econ development – Portland put down a $100 million streetcar line and ended up with nearly a billion dollars in private development along the route. That’s what I’m talking about. Re: ridership. I’m as certain as you are not that it will reach those projections. But even more, this is the beginning of a larger system that is planned to link into the Beltline. You don’t improve a city’s transportation network, or improve anything for that matter, by allowing your fears of failure to keep you from getting started on the improvements. And ultimately, this is not the type of investment that can be deemed a success or failure after 52 weeks. Many large investments are like that. You have to take a long view. I know it’s easier to be a curmudgeon, but have some faith, have some vision.
I thought not. Interesting that demanding actual evidence is being a “curmudgeon” while spending hundreds of millions on “faith” is somehow the more reasonable position. Who knew you were so religious?
Also, Google “When It Comes to Streetcars and Economic Development, There’s So Much We Don’t Know,” which casts ample doubt on the “proof” to which you refer above.
I bow to your moral superiority o almighty doubter.
This back-and-forth is why one of my New Year’s resolutions is to stop reading the DM comments section. Thanks for saving me the time and effort of trawling through your thin-skinned “I’m rubber and you’re glue…” childishness.
And to preempt your response; no, this is not the good-natured disagreement between mature adults. It’s people with beliefs and outlooks so ingrained, they don’t listen to each other, and end up resorting to playground taunts.
Trust me, I wasn’t going to try to make the case that this disagreement took place between two mature adults.
Did Portland get more than 2.5 miles of track for their $100M? Does Portland’s streetcar go where people actually want to go? Tell me who is going to ride from the World of Coke to the MLK Center? If the wonderful government wanted to affect transportation, this streetcar would be running up & down Peachtree Street. Remember this same streetcar route was run by a bus several years ago. That route was discontinued due to…..low ridership. Once the novelty wears off, no one will be riding this thing & we the taxpayers will be stuck with the maintenance.
Georgia State students are also projected riders. GA State and the City are working on an agreement to share operating expenses so students can ride at free or reduced fare (I’m not sure where those negotiations are). If anyone hasn’t been downtown Atl in the past 4-5 years, you haven’t seen the huge amount of GA State students that now live downtown in massive dorms…
Let me Google that for you:
– A fact sheet says that Portland was doing a 3.3 mile extension that will cost $128MM, plus $20MM for vehicles. So yes, that’s close enough.
Who will ride it? Tourists, students, anyone who wants to.
As for the Peachtree bus line – I think people like trains over buses (but that’s just, like, my opinion.) I am guessing that Portland also had buses along the train route that had less ridership than the current rail project. Just a guess, that would take more googling power than I am willing to do right now.
I remember when Portland had buses before the trolley.
“Tell me who is going to ride from the World of Coke to the MLK Center?”
Tourists. Of which there are many.
Bingo! Today I was downtown at the Curb Market and saw three women in purple TCU gear waiting to get on the streetcar
A bus doesn’t attract tourists the way a streetcar does, and the MLK center draws a lot of tourists, especially international ones. That said, I tend to agree that running it up and down Peachtree–say from Peachtree Center to the High Museum– would make more sense in terms of usefulness, though eventual connectivity to the Eastside Beltline might make me rethink that.
There’s already a streetcar running from Peachtree Center to the High Museum. It’s called MARTA. It runs underground though so it’s harder to see.
Sadly, plans for a streetcar up and down Peachtree have been ditched in favor of other east-west street car connectivity– i think Central Atlanta Progress might have the renderings of the new priorities for next generation streetcar. While I agree there is more connectivity needed in the City, I think taking the streetcar off of Peachtree is a huge missed opportunity to cultivate and grow ridership (and support).
“It runs underground though so it’s harder to see.”
Actually, that’s essentially the same point I was making about a bus. Streetcars attract tourists that a regular transit system doesn’t (and MARTA trains are not the most user-friendly in terms of hopping on and off at street-level). Whether or not catering to tourists is worth the investment is another matter.
If nothing else, I’m looking forward to someplace to send friends/relatives from out of town. I always dread those calls because it sounds so lame to say that I never go OTD, never mind OTP, if I don’t have to.
Extremely cool, articulated street car!! Very European.
The Wonder of the Age! A Modern Miracle! Salvation of all our transportation woes.
Looking forward to seeing the first ridership figures after the novelty wears off.
Your tax dollars down the drain.
They’re spend bukus to house a lousy football team, so, hey, why not?
In other words, wasting money is what government does, so mission accomplished!
You want tax dollars down the drain? Try the 1 billion of our dollars being spent on a 285/400 interchange! And like everything else the government does, add 25% to the cost, when its all said and done.
I am so glad you guys weren’t standing around when the Wright brothers made their seconds long first flight.
It’s a start. The beginning of a network. Look past your naysaying noses and look to cities that are growing and thriving and use streetcars.
Amen. And besides, the measure of success is not so much whether or not ridership pencils out as it is impact on proximate, taxable real estate value. The Pearl District in Portland, as I understand it (haven’t been there or researched it much) is a contemporary example.
If the ridership numbers aren’t good, why would it increase adjacent property values?
At any rate, this sucker cost $100 million (and counting). If the goal was to increase proximate property values, this project has a very high hill to climb to be considered a worthwhile investment. I very seriously doubt it will get there.
You seriously doubt it. And I think it will ultimately be considered a worthwhile investment. We all have opinions.
“If the goal was to increase proximate property values, this project has a very high hill to climb to be considered a worthwhile investment. I very seriously doubt it will get there.”
It’s already done that.
Most of the funding came from the US Department of Transportation. Eventually they are going to want to see people riding it, or there will be no phase 2.
I love how you hear copious complaints about downtown Atlanta being so downtrodden often from THE SAME PEOPLE who complain when the city does something to stoke economic development. Those are the people who are seriously worth ignoring.
People don’t complain when the city does something to stoke economic development. Many just don’t see this boondoggle as one of those things.
There’s plenty of proof around the nation that a project like this will stoke economic development. How can you classify something as a boondoggle before it even opens, before you know the results? If you are whining and complaining before you know the results, then you are seriously worth ignoring.
Re: stoking” economic development: that’s an incredibly vague and probably unprovable claim, so I don’t know what “proof” you are talking about.
Why not stick with the ridership projections, which are 2,600 per day. If a year from now this section of the streetcar has not achieved the projection, will you admit it was a failure and the additional sections should not be built?
Nope. Not at all because that would be missing the point. Or multiple points. Re: econ development – Portland put down a $100 million streetcar line and ended up with nearly a billion dollars in private development along the route. That’s what I’m talking about. Re: ridership. I’m as certain as you are not that it will reach those projections. But even more, this is the beginning of a larger system that is planned to link into the Beltline. You don’t improve a city’s transportation network, or improve anything for that matter, by allowing your fears of failure to keep you from getting started on the improvements. And ultimately, this is not the type of investment that can be deemed a success or failure after 52 weeks. Many large investments are like that. You have to take a long view. I know it’s easier to be a curmudgeon, but have some faith, have some vision.
I thought not. Interesting that demanding actual evidence is being a “curmudgeon” while spending hundreds of millions on “faith” is somehow the more reasonable position. Who knew you were so religious?
Also, Google “When It Comes to Streetcars and Economic Development, There’s So Much We Don’t Know,” which casts ample doubt on the “proof” to which you refer above.
I bow to your moral superiority o almighty doubter.
This back-and-forth is why one of my New Year’s resolutions is to stop reading the DM comments section. Thanks for saving me the time and effort of trawling through your thin-skinned “I’m rubber and you’re glue…” childishness.
And to preempt your response; no, this is not the good-natured disagreement between mature adults. It’s people with beliefs and outlooks so ingrained, they don’t listen to each other, and end up resorting to playground taunts.
Trust me, I wasn’t going to try to make the case that this disagreement took place between two mature adults.
Did Portland get more than 2.5 miles of track for their $100M? Does Portland’s streetcar go where people actually want to go? Tell me who is going to ride from the World of Coke to the MLK Center? If the wonderful government wanted to affect transportation, this streetcar would be running up & down Peachtree Street. Remember this same streetcar route was run by a bus several years ago. That route was discontinued due to…..low ridership. Once the novelty wears off, no one will be riding this thing & we the taxpayers will be stuck with the maintenance.
Georgia State students are also projected riders. GA State and the City are working on an agreement to share operating expenses so students can ride at free or reduced fare (I’m not sure where those negotiations are). If anyone hasn’t been downtown Atl in the past 4-5 years, you haven’t seen the huge amount of GA State students that now live downtown in massive dorms…
Let me Google that for you:
– A fact sheet says that Portland was doing a 3.3 mile extension that will cost $128MM, plus $20MM for vehicles. So yes, that’s close enough.
Who will ride it? Tourists, students, anyone who wants to.
As for the Peachtree bus line – I think people like trains over buses (but that’s just, like, my opinion.) I am guessing that Portland also had buses along the train route that had less ridership than the current rail project. Just a guess, that would take more googling power than I am willing to do right now.
I remember when Portland had buses before the trolley.
“Tell me who is going to ride from the World of Coke to the MLK Center?”
Tourists. Of which there are many.
Bingo! Today I was downtown at the Curb Market and saw three women in purple TCU gear waiting to get on the streetcar
A bus doesn’t attract tourists the way a streetcar does, and the MLK center draws a lot of tourists, especially international ones. That said, I tend to agree that running it up and down Peachtree–say from Peachtree Center to the High Museum– would make more sense in terms of usefulness, though eventual connectivity to the Eastside Beltline might make me rethink that.
There’s already a streetcar running from Peachtree Center to the High Museum. It’s called MARTA. It runs underground though so it’s harder to see.
Sadly, plans for a streetcar up and down Peachtree have been ditched in favor of other east-west street car connectivity– i think Central Atlanta Progress might have the renderings of the new priorities for next generation streetcar. While I agree there is more connectivity needed in the City, I think taking the streetcar off of Peachtree is a huge missed opportunity to cultivate and grow ridership (and support).
“It runs underground though so it’s harder to see.”
Actually, that’s essentially the same point I was making about a bus. Streetcars attract tourists that a regular transit system doesn’t (and MARTA trains are not the most user-friendly in terms of hopping on and off at street-level). Whether or not catering to tourists is worth the investment is another matter.
If nothing else, I’m looking forward to someplace to send friends/relatives from out of town. I always dread those calls because it sounds so lame to say that I never go OTD, never mind OTP, if I don’t have to.