The city has released its final version of it’s Annexation Master Plan today and there don’t seem to be any major changes/additions to the info/recommendations from the initial draft map (above) OR the financial analysis (net positive for the city) OR the impact on the city’s schools (most enrollment growth will come from inside the existing city limits, annexation is a net gain for CSD).
There is a note about needing to build another Fire Station if it wants to maintain a Class 2 ISO rating for fire services, which I don’t immediately recall seeing before, but everything else looks like it was covered previously.
At the end, the City Manager recommends adopting a resolution that asks the General Assembly to adopt a resolution that would annex the proposed annexation areas in the 2015 session.
Learning cottages for everyone! Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah, Decaturites!
NO moat here –
10,000 kids by 2020, 20,000 kids by 2025
Big Lots selling down stock at Suburban Plaza so they can move on out of it.
Hancock Fabrics moving out of Suburban Plaza to new location.
Where is Hancock Fabric’s new location going to be?
Northlake in the plaza with Toys R Us and the pet store.
🙁 Much farther drive which will probably discourage the expression of my already meager stitchery skills.
Watch Decaturish’s video on the public meeting about annexation yesterday. The School Board members present seem to agree that annexation may be beneficial in the long-term but are quite concerned about the immediate impact of hundreds and hundreds of students joining CSD all at once. New students will arrive on day 1 of annexation. Meanwhile, state funding and construction takes months to years to catch up. Radical action and local resources will be necessary short-term. Even trailers need land under them. Someone suggested that the Callaway Building be used for the school system since it’s right next to the high school. The City might want it to be zoned commercial for he tax base but the greatest need for a while may be seats for children.
You want me. You still want me.
ummm, yes, I’m feeling very wanted.
You WERE working as a waitress in a cocktail bar when we met you…
Actually it was a donut shop. Didn’t realize you had been stalking me that long.
“I was working as a waitress in a do-nuuut shop, that much is true…”
Hmmm…not the same kinda implied shadiness (hey, it was the 80’s–everyone was still a bit Puritanical about waitresses in cocktail bars).
Hmmm. We could have a conversation about the 80s, Cuba and WSN. It would likely be a more interesting conversation than the one about annexation. As I drove home this evening, one of my neighbors was being interviewed on his front lawn about the proposed annexation of our half of the street. This stuff is relentless.
You three could have a conversation about dryer lint that would be more interesting than any one about annexation that I’ve been privy to. In fact, please do!
Very concerned over the student enrollment projections in the annexed areas. In the study, the same 747 additional students in the “all annexed areas combined” for 2020 is used for both the “low” growth & “high” growth model. That 747 seems really low.
That’s been my observation/complaint regarding the annexation math as well (Parkwood previously). It seems they take very low estimates that generally ignore the short-term trend of young families moving in.
That said, I’m of the opinion that it won’t be quite so doom and gloom because more people will move to Brookhaven and other areas. Decatur’s home prices are creating a bit of a bubble and families can afford more home (or any home since prices got out of control) somewhere else. Also, Brookhaven and some other areas are zoned for good schools and have a great deal more residential options for young families.
I have a similar view. Is growth a problem? Sure. But I too would not be surprised if the numbers are not as bad as projected. “Experts” have a hard time making predictions, and tend to assume to extrapolate the current growth rate to the future. What cannot be anticipated well, especially beyond 1-2 years, are unforseen regional economic changes, as well as feedback (changes in housing market, changes in Dekalb County, etc).
I still always like to plan for the worst. And yes growth is a problem to be dealt with. But I would not be surprised if the numbers 10 years from now were not as high as predicted.
Why won’t anyone provide an explanation as to why the “expert” has the same number for both “high” and “low” projections? The commissioners and school board should be jumping up and down demanding an answer. Even if you are right about actual enrollment being less than projected, it seems a bit unreasonable to rely on the expert’s projection at all given such a glaring issue.
Watch Decaturish’s video–I think there’s some polite, politic jumping up and down going on. The public may need to amplify that with letters or phone calls. Blog postings are good for getting the word out to the world at large but officials tend to say things like “the blog got it all wrong” so the input seems to have less impact that an email or call or (gasp!) hard-copy letter.
Did anyone go to the session on Sunday with commissioners & CSD reps giving their thoughts on annexation? Any insights?
I was at the Sunday session. First, big kudos to those of our elected officials who gave up a good bit of their Sunday (beautiful day by the way) to participate. Also to Kathy Gannon, who was only an audience member, but volunteered to become part of the panel. Second, I was impressed with the knowledge the officials have on the annexation issue. However, there are so many unanswered questions. Particularly the effect of so many apartments and undeveloped land proposed to being brought into the city. The CSD are in a real problem with not enough space or money to handle the current tidal wave of students coming within the current city. The more I learn, the more I have concerns. I am not sure there is a good solution. I think the estimates the board/city are using for the potential new students is low, real low. Think about how many parents from outside the city will simply rent one of the newly-in-the-city apartments on DeKalb Industrial Way just to get their kids in CSD. I know the lack of space for new facilities is acute, but I do not support this annexation.
The sessions were also taped and are up for display on Decaturish:
http://www.decaturish.com/2014/12/video-decatur-leaders-talk-annexation/
Thanks!
The numbers as presented make it a no-brainer. However, are the numbers accurate and what will be the consequences if they are not?
The enrollment projections from the new developments inside current Decatur and for those in the parcels to be annexed seem significantly understated.
I can see a scenario in 10 years where people are pointing fingers about school enrollment and taxes, and the persons responsible for them are no longer in office or just blame the consulting firm who came up with these projections. I think the most disappointing thing about annexation is how powerless everyone feels about a process that will have major long-term implications and how rushed it is at the same time. There is the appearance of transparency from government (videotaped worksessions) officials, but we all know the fix is in with a backroom deal between many of the cityhood movements and the legislative representatives. We’re just hearing the talking points.
At the bottom of page 6:
“Annexation is not a substantial driver of school enrollment increases.”
To me, this is where things begin to fall apart. The new areas contain a considerable amount of residential, and I believe we will see the same thing we have witnessed in Decatur over the past several years – residents without children cashing out and selling to families. Not that I blame them; I’d do the same thing. But the end result is, of course, more children in the schools.
Also, as Mic says above, to assume the same amount of new students (747) in both the high- and low-growth models will come from annexation seems counterintuitive.
I think you overestimate the lure of the schools. Yes, they are very good – my daughter is a product of the COD school system and I have no complaints there – but we didn’t choose to live here because of them and we aren’t leaving because we no longer use them. I also have many city of Decatur friends who don’t have kids in the schools and they aren’t looking to get out either. We love many other aspects of our city as much or more than we love a good school system.
And I think you underestimate them. What other single factor can account for the dramatic rise in home prices, and the continued demand for rental properties despite outrageously high rents?
Sure, Decatur has a thriving downtown, great police force, small-city feel, etc. But so do other places in the metro area. What makes Decatur stand out, and causes many (not all, I agree) people to move here, is the school system’s reputation. There’s a direct correlation between the implosion of the DeKalb County school system and the rise in demand for Decatur properties. It wasn’t exactly flat before then, but it certainly ramped up after.
Decatur’s rental rates are high but they’re still consistent with other in-town areas offering a similar lifestyle. It’s not people with kids snatching them up. Our apartment market, like elsewhere in the Atlanta metro, skews heavily towards those younger and/or childless.
I didn’t realize Decatur collected data about characteristics of apartment residents. Where can those numbers be found?
But part of the reason that it skews toward the younger and childless is that the current apartment stock is almost entirely smaller one and two bedroom units. Start adding larger 3 bedroom apartments and there will be a shift in that distribution. How much of a shift, I don’t know, but there will be an increase in apartment-dwelling school age children.
Now, whether this is good, bad or neutral is a whole ‘nother story…
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2014/sep/06/dozens-protest-snellville-apartments-outside/
True, but the reason downtown is developing with small(er)-unit apartments is not arbitrary or a reaction to enrollment concerns. It’s because that’s where the market is. Household size continues to get smaller; the number of singles or couples without kids continues to grow. People with kids, the resources to afford choices, and who still want to live in apartments are a niche, and a small one at that.
That said, there may be 3-bedroom units within the annexation area where the rents don’t reflect the same location premium. Those developments cater to a different market altogether and, in that case, you’re right. They may become increasingly attractive to parents who can’t afford to get into CSD any other way. But a 3-bedroom that might cost $1,500 to $1,800 out in “the zone” would be three grand downtown.
Factors that drew me in to buy a home:
Progressive city
Planning by the city officials
Brickstore, Leon’s, Siam Thai, Kimball House, Pastries A Go Go
Concerts on the Square
Terrific Thursdays
Factors I did not even know were great when I bought:
School system
Police force
Crazy, huh?
Did you have school age children when you bought? If not, you are unlike the vast majority of newcomers to CoD. Looking no further than my street, every single person moving in has children that will attend CSD in the next couple of years, if not immediately. Most moving out do not. I know that my street isn’t unique in that regard.
No one is saying that other aspects of CoD aren’t attracting newcomers. But, we can’t downplay the fact that CSD is the primary factor behind our explosive growth and demographic shift. Everything else you mention is much of a result of the type of people being drawn here (well off people who have cash to spend and who also want to get involved in their community, especially their schools) as a cause.
When we moved into our house in City of Decatur three years ago, the first question that almost everyone asked was “Oh, how old are your kids?”. They just assumed that we had kids, and at least two of them.
No kids.
I disagree that places like Brickstore were born out of well off people having cash to spend. Most of the places (except KH) are businesses started by people who were drawn to the community and pushed to help build it. I think it is a disservice to those entrepreneurs to say they didn’t at least help build this community.
My comment was in response to the question of “what other single factor” helped and most of my comments were surrounding things that don’t require me to spend a dime.
“I disagree that places like Brickstore were born out of well off people having cash to spend. Most of the places (except KH) are businesses started by people who were drawn to the community and pushed to help build it. I think it is a disservice to those entrepreneurs to say they didn’t at least help build this community.”
Totes agree with this. Brickstore hadn’t been open very long when I was just a wee law student doing her 3rd-year practice hitch at DeKalb Solicitor General, and Decatur was very different back then, even though it really wasn’t that long ago. (Or at least, it doesn’t seem that way to me.) The forward-thinking folks behind the renaissance of the Square, the Brickstore guys principally amongst them, WAY pre-dated all the PWKs flooding into Decatur for the past 5 years.
If we could just close down Iberian Pig and reopen the Grog Shop we’d probably run off at least a few of those PWKs.
” I think the most disappointing thing about annexation is how powerless everyone feels about a process that will have major long-term implications and how rushed it is at the same time.”
Well said, Moderate. I really don’t see the logic behind the statement that annexation won’t make a chink in the enrollment numbers–it will all come from inside boundaries. Huh?
At Home in Decatur’s comment about all the students tumbling in on Day 1 of annexation sent chills down my spine. I think the anti-annexation movement needs to use that as their catch phrase.
I was in a conversation recently with an Avondale resident who said that even though their school system isn’t desirable, people still want to move or stay there because they like the small town feel and know it’s going to stay that way. We used to say the same about Decatur–I just don’t feel that sentiment anymore.
“I was in a conversation recently with an Avondale resident who said that even though their school system isn’t desirable, people still want to move or stay there because they like the small town feel and know it’s going to stay that way.”
Alas, I don’t think we do know that it will stay that way. Annexation fever appears to have hit Avondale, and I understand there are suggestions of greatly expanding the city’s boundaries to include more residential and even the Memorial Wal-Mart.
Not to mention the 250+ (potentially weak, given the developer’s portfolio) apartments coming to downtown’s Fenner Dunlop property, the East College road diet overhaul, and the subsequent development that will almost certainly follow.
Rushed? Decatur has been talking annexation since 2008. Maybe you weren’t paying attention.
Yes, there’s been years and years of talk, but no concrete commitment to the funding, classroom space, and land that CSD will need immediately on day 1 of annexation when hundreds and hundreds of new students show up. Talk and aspirational planning are not the same as implementation planning.
Are you kidding? Think about all who are affected by annexation besides current Decatur residents. I was referring to them too. Why would they pay attention to past Decatur discussions or maps that they were never on?
Annexation issue is a county-wide issue, with several cities and differing constituencies fighting bitterly over territories, taxes and schools. There are no feasibility studies for any of these new cities and they are being rushed to a legislative vote in a matter of weeks. It is a fluid process. Decatur just voted yesterday. Avondale still doesn’t even have a map.
The process sure seems chaotic to me.
Chaotic is a good word. Too important, too many severe long-term consequences for all involved for this to be dealt with in such a manner. It can’t be undone once everything is pushed through, there is absolutely no need to rush
Avondale has a map, It will be voted on in January.
As Mic and Scott suggested, it’s the vast number of apartments that always has concerned me: hundreds of units in the mammoth complexes on Dekalb Industrial will be folded into CSD on Day 1, and more units are planned for future development. Every unit will be a new access point for CSD, and landlords will do everything in their power to make that apparent. And let’s face it: renting an address in Decatur will be cheaper than paying private-school tuition, especially for multi-kid families.
And the Decaturish video indicates that apartments are counted as commercial, not residential, when officials talk about the percentage of an annexed area that is commercial vs. residential.
They also mentioned the apartments annexed are 3 bedroom apartments and Decatur did not have a good baseline comparison for kids in the building since most of the intown apartments that now exist are geared towards individuals or less family-oriented layouts. Not to stoke the fire, but I believe this concern is very legitimate.
Note that at the meeting, the City Council members stated that for the city’s purposes, apartments are “commercial”. However, CSD members indicated that they are considering apartments as “residential”. I am not sure anyone can accurately forecast what any apartment complex will yield in number of students until those units are annexed and school begins. Heck, someone can rent an apartment the day before the school year begins with five kids. Hello, welcome to Glennwood Elementary; here is a fifth of a classroom just added. The three bedroom units are a ticking time-bomb.
From what I understand (and I very well may be wrong) the new annexed areas will not be folded into the school system on day one. It was my understanding that the new students would have to wait a full year. Doe anyone know this information for sure?
During the meeting Sunday one of the representatives mentioned the idea of a phased approach to getting the students into CSD. She (don’t recall her name) even went further to discuss a 4m hit to getting all of the new students into the system because the state would not front the money – the money would only come from the state in year 2 and going forwards. There’s the matter of not having desks, books, places to put them. There also aren’t enough teachers right now, so the phased approach may be the only way the schools can handle the short-term ramifications of annexation.
Did she describe how she’d “phase in” newly annexed residents’ tax bills? It’s not fair to annex a property and start charging them Decatur taxes without letting them into the school system.
No. It was more of a way to gain relief for the immediate impact to CSD. She didn’t discuss the practical application during the meeting.
There is no way a family is going going to pay Decatur City taxes and not have their kids go to CSD. I think that would not be enforceable.
Decatur City taxes and Decatur City Schools taxes are different- maybe there could be some kind of tax value freeze, and in the transition period the school taxes go to DeKalb while City taxes go to Decatur. I have no idea if this is permissible by law.
That’s a good point. Also, I guess you could apply total taxes to commercial from the get-go?
Has anyone addressed the fact that Decatur would be annexing an Indian and Pakistani population along with the apartments?
Uhhhh……no? I’m not sure where you’re going with this one.
I do think that estimates about the amount of kids that would come from apartments are not accurate in part because they are grounded in flawed assumptions of how families live. Fact is, families live in three bedroom apartments. I think it’s fair that a larger immigrant population would make it more probable that apartments have more families. That’s not the only factor, but it can be added to the reasons why it’s completely FLAWED logic to have annexation contributing the same number of students in all scenarios. That seems like a true issue that we should understand the implications of range of estimates. This issue alone makes me quite skeptical of the other assumptions.
Totally agree. Historical experiences of underestimating an influx of residents with kids into apartments suddenly zoned into good school districts in outlying metro Atlanta counties are legion. I’m frankly baffled that an assumption hasn’t been made that annexed apartment complexes will see a large increase in residents with children.
Just saying it would be a different mix of students than CSD currently has. New expectations. Maybe new problems. Not trying to be disparaging at all.
Maybe some new items at the Clairemont Marketplace and Café, yum!
one of my favorite things noticed in a classroom during the Clairmont Marketplace were some words in Somali on a whiteboard– looked like kids were learning a few words from a classmate. That is way more cultural exposure than I ever had growing up- lucky kids.
Not sure what anyone would do to it address it. Changing demographics are a given everywhere in metro Atlanta, so I don’t see how it would be anything unusual for a school system to absorb new students, whatever their background.
I hear the real concern that we’ll need a new school soon and where will we put it…. but I’m wondering if we’ve thought enough about options within COD currently. I just drove down Talley street and there are some lots there is a lot of interesting space there. That big lot in Oakhurst where Dollar General and the church is. Green space within the Dog park is going to developers, the Boys and Girls club has a big space… Columbia Seminary has land within Winnona Park. Ugly, half used parking lots in downtown decatur. The vacant corner where the DHA used to be (I know there are plans for that)….
Every single one of those options comes with complexity and the opportunity for creativity. A nice new school with a separate Boys and Girls club space? It’s easy to say – oh all of that is too complicated and would never work. But is there anything turn key in the annexation? Would annexation come with city owned spaces? An already made school? Maybe? I haven’t followed super closely. But I do recall that somewhere in the planning there as a footnote saying “does not include cost of land”… So I’m wondering if we’ll have complexity in developing a school space regardless.
We just built new central offices, new public works space, new police department. I wish we had decided to think creatively about using the space we have given these apparent urgent needs.
My rudimentary understanding is that eminent domain can be used to get land for a school but the school system has to pay market rate. That’s much more prohibitive inside COD than outside COD. So, LONG term, CSD can benefit from annexation of cheaper land as well as the increased revenues from commercial annexation. Even better would be if the annexation included school buildings that could be purchased. But SHORT term, the immediate effect of annexation could be disastrous during the period in which CSD gets the negative impact of a deluge of hundreds of children arriving all at once but has not yet been able to get the land to build schools or to buy existing schools to handle the deluge.
The Decaturish video seems to suggest that COD cannot survive much longer without commercial annexation. So the question is not whether it occurs but how it occurs. Will it deluge CSD and make for a lousy 5-10 years for the school system (almost as long as a child’s CSD career)? Or can the City come up with resources of funding, land (e.g. Calloway building), and time to mitigate the immediate impact? (BTW I don’t know enough to know whether or not the contention is valid that annexation must happen for COD to survive.)
Did anyone talk about how many commercial buildings lie vacant within COD currently… I hate that we’re talking about getting NEW commercial property when there are floundering commercial properties around current COD.
On the agenda for tonight’s school board meeting: “RMS Option I Phase 1: Installation of 30 Modular Classrooms”
The wave is here.
i’d like to go ahead and nominate myself as the Chair of the 2015 Sturm und Drang Annexation Festival, hosted in what I propose be the newly renamed Angst Park in the clenched heart of Oakhurst.
our musical line-up will be headlined by The Sobs, and we’ll have a pessimistic poetry contest afterwards, with the winner being awarded the hallowed Hang Wringing Cup.
who wants to handle snacks?
I will bring snacks. But because I will be so preoccupied with annexation worry, I will burn these snacks.
Last night the school board delayed voting on a resolution supporting the city’s annexation plan. Some members expressed a need for more time to examine the issues. On a positive note, the Board voted unanimously to approve an agreement with the Decatur Housing Authority that will allow students who reside in Gateway Apts to remain enrolled in CSD schools during the demolition/construction of their apartments. CSD is not responsible for transportation of Gateway students who temporarily move out of the city, but DHA plans to pay a stipend to residents to help with transportation costs.
Hurray on both counts!
Nice job getting the word out so that folks could write to the Board in support of the request. Thanks for notifying a few weeks back.
Ditto. DM is perfect for getting the word out and for learning things that would not have entered your consciousness otherwise. Then it’s up to us citizens to take it from there and take action, or contact officials, or redirect young’uns or whatever.
great to hear some good news amongst the other main topics of the week- thanks for passing that along! Good job school board members.
Staying inside the current borders is managable for the city. The city can not afford new schools, more roadway and infrastructure, another fire station and more police with expanded borders. Decatur is almost $200 million in debt and the increase in tax revenue will not cover the cost of adequately servicing the annexations, the current debt and the new debt proposed because of the annexations. If Decatur wants to expand then it will face very tough decisions and primary question seems to be how to afford servicing more area without killing it with taxes. What gives to allow Decatur to swell; the school system, public safety or infrastructure? With police and fire now consuming 41 -42% of the budget and that expense is only going to rise with expanded borders is this the area of city government that should merge with the county to free up some money?
So you disagree with the contention that the City of Decatur must annex to survive?