City Manager and Superintendent Release Joint Message on Annexation

55 thoughts on “City Manager and Superintendent Release Joint Message on Annexation”

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2. I am curious about the following statement, “IF the past is any indication, the City Schools will continue to face enormous pressures in the next five years and moving forward into the future. Those pressures may not be able to be addressed within the existing city limits so annexation has to be explored.”
   By pressure do they mean lack of funds to support our school system? Does annexation resolve the dilemma? My assumption is that somehow annexation increases the tax base in excess of the additional expediters. I do remember speaking with the former DeKalb County Tax Commissioner, Tom Scott, and he told me that Decatur’s small school system was not sustainable. I would like to see a more clear explanation of annexation’s ability to make our school system more sustainable over the long haul because my initial instinct says if it ain’t broke why change it.

4. This is the first I am hearing from either the City or the School Board acknowledging that “an additional school facility” will be needed going forward. I strongly feel that any additional school facilities are a HUGE part of the master plan and should be openly discussed AT THE SAME TIME as any expansions in current facilities are discussed. I do not want us to be tied to short-sighted decisions that will affect our children, educators and taxes for decades to come.

   1. And I’d like it to be crystal clear how annexation provides more school space. By annexing school buildings owned by another school system? Are we sure that will work out? By annexing private land that CSD could purchase or would be donated to CSD? Do we KNOW it could be purchased/donated or do we just think/hope/speculate/are-pretty-sure? For example, folks are talking about the Methodist Children’s Home–I assume that land is owned by some organization–do we KNOW they would donate some for a school? By annexing some kind of public land, e.g. a park or government facility? I’m not necessarily for or against getting school space; I just want to understand how CSD/COD envisions it happening.

      1. CSD/COD do not seem inclined to answer any questions at all concerning why exactly they may want certain parcels. I don’t think any of the possible areas of annexation have existing school facilities of any type currently.
         They are asking us to spend close to $100 MILLION DOLLARS to just expanding the High School and the Middle School. F.AVE is at or close to full. Most of the Elementary schools are full or close to it. The Pre-K program has a wait list of over 100 kids.
         Asking us to consider adding to our problems by annexing without giving us the full picture for how they intend to solve those problems is outrageous.
         Putting forth cripplingly expensive expansion plans for only two schools without telling us precisely how those tie in to the need for at least one other school facility is borderline malfeasance.

         1. +1

         2. I keep beating the same drum, but why in the hell will CSD not re-evaluate K-5? Yes, about half the parents like the 4-5 school, but the “success” of that school in a period of “declining enrollment” doesn’t necessarily equate to success in an overcrowded school system. It may or may not negate the need for a new school. Yes, it will cost a few million to retro-fit F.Ave. But, what will a new school cost? And K-5 might not solve these issues. I would just like everything to be on the table so an informed decision can be made.

   2. +1

6. Decatur will certainly need a LOT more school space if we annex these residential areas. We will see some quick profit-taking from existing homeowners, with tears downs and many more families coming in short order. The projections of future school enrollment do not seem to take into account what is actually happening across the city right now.

   1. I could not agree more and am deeply concerned that our school system cannot handle the influx while continuing to be the quality school system it is today. Is our need to grow and expand our tax base worth the cost to our children?

      1. Well no, and I don’t think anyone is arguing that it is. But growing and expanding our tax base will help provide a high quality education to our children. If our city is on track to add 3,000 additional students to the school system from our existing footprint, we’ve still go to find a way to cover that increase in expenses. More residential taxes is not going to cut it without increasing the tax rate.

         1. JC – we could forever chase these phantom permanently childless high-tax paying residents just outside the city line…. Seriously, how long do you think it will be before these newly added areas are filled with two- or three-child families? 18 months sound about right to me, too

            1. +1

   2. Amen. It’s disappointing to see numbers like “20 additional kids” being used in the cost breakdowns, because that is how many kids live there now. We all know that those numbers will double or more by the time our local developers have had 18 months to play in those sandboxes.

      1. This is so obvious that the only conclusion I can draw is that the city is willfully ignoring it.

         1. +1

         2. +1

         3. They certainly did with the Parkwoods. How many times did we hear that only 8 school age children lived there?

      2. I think the handling of this phenomenon is equally flawed on both sides. On the one side, you’ve got people denying or downplaying how newfound COD residential status will attract certain buyers (i.e. families) who wouldn’t previously have been interested. But on the other side are people’s whose argument seems to suggest their belief that there’s an endless supply of families that can afford homes above $500K.

         1. “But on the other side are people’s whose argument seems to suggest their belief that there’s an endless supply of families that can afford homes above $500K.”

            Endless? No. But, I believe there are a few more thousand in the metro area who want to live intown, and that is more thane enough to replace every child-free household in CoD.

            1. Perhaps, but CSD as an attractor becomes less significant as incomes and home prices rise. If you’re a middle class family looking to buy a house below $300K or so, an in town location with an excellent school system matters A LOT because you don’t necessarily have the resources for other options. But people who can afford $500K, $750K or more tend to have more options. They can live anywhere in town, not just Decatur, and still ensure their kid(s) get exactly the education they want. So the pool of people who qualify financially — yet are still interested in Decatur specifically — gets smaller and smaller.

               1. RE “and still ensure their kid(s) get exactly the education they want…” Not 100% true. While it’s true that the wealthy have financial access to private schools and even transportation to them, their children may not get into their private school of choice. Only so many kids can attend Paideia or wherever, no matter how much their parents can pay. I’ve known wealthy parents whose kids did not get into Paideia on the first several tries. Even more important, some wealthy parents want the walkable neighborhood school option, especially if the local public schools are decent. Some Kennedy family children have attended Greenwich, CT, public schools. I am positive that the Greenwich public schools are an attractor for the wealthy families living there, in addition to the horse farms and historic colonial homes. There’s something about holding your kindergartener’s hand while walking them to school that isn’t satisfied by having your nanny drive them across town to Woodward and back.

                  1. Let me rephrase then: “and still ensure their kid(s) get an education on par with or better than the one they can get here.”

                     No disagreement about lifestyle attributes. It’s just not what was being discussed. The point about the pool of home buying prospects dwindling as costs rise, and the reasons why, remains the same.

                  2. I don’t think I’d consider someone buying a $500k house “wealthy”or in the millionaire category who can afford private school at $15-$20k/ year. That’s a lot for 4 years of high school and a ton of $$ for 12 years of school. People want to save for college. Many people in million $ + houses in Morningside, Druid Hills, and Virginia Highlands might be able to afford private school, but that’s what’s nice about COD you don’t have go private to get all the benefits of Intown living.

               2. No argument here. And I know you have pointed out that these things often take care of themselves to some extent (i.e. once we become overcrowded (or, maybe more accurately, once it becomes public knowledge outside of CoD that our schools are overcrowded), CoD will be less attractive). But, I am of the opinion that until APS and DeKalb get their sh*t together, there will be sufficient demand to continue the current trend for years to come. The fact that CSD is trying to be proactive and stay ahead of the enrollment surge minimizes any deterrent effect created by projections of severe overcrowding. And this is only compounded by CoD being such a desirable place to live if you completely take the schools out of the question. People are stretching and sacrificing to move here and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that tide will turn any time soon.

                  1. No disagreement on my end either. I continue to believe that we can have a nuanced discussion of impacts somewhere between the extremes of “everything will be fine” and “we’re all gonna die.” When those are the voices dominating the conversation, that’s when I start to tune out. Even though I may have a somewhat rosier gut feeling than you as it relates to possible outcomes, I appreciate the counter view. It’s the only way to stay rooted in reality.

                     1. I forgot one thing. I believe a 15 to 20% tax increase is imminent – we have to pay for those schools somehow. Part of me believes (or wants to believe) the tax increase will turn the tide and slow down development as fewer will be able or want to pay those taxes. But, another part of me thinks the tax increase will create a self-fulfilling prophecy – even more w/o kids leave and only those with kids can justify paying the taxes. Thoughts?

                        1. As I’ve said before, my revenue positive household will likely make a quick exit if my taxes go up by any significant amount. I’m not sure I can state what I would consider “significant” just yet.

                        2. I’m waiting to see the level of cash-positive impacts from downtown development before venturing too far down this path. That might make the difference in what we need, revenue-wise.

                        3. A 20% tax increase would definitely push this revenue positive household to supersize our house to sell it, for a very nice profit, to some young, rich couple with 4 kids who will happily pay the tax bill rather than private school tuition.

                           1. ^This.

                           2. Well then I hope I am wrong. But, I assume you will only sell if there is a rich young family willing to pay current prices. If a bunch of homes suddenly flood the market and CoD becomes a buyer’s market, you might not get your price. Too many questions and not enough answers.

                           3. True, DawgFan. But I’m pretty sure that, however it all plays, the top end of the market will remain strong unless other external market forces push them down. That’s why we would renovate before selling, so we can sell it for $750k+, rather than the $300K or so we could currently get for someone else to knock it down and rebuild. Even if the market floods with more “affordable” houses that will get buyers in CSD, we can still take advantage of the suckers paying Buckhead prices for McMansions here 🙂

                           4. “we can still take advantage of the suckers paying Buckhead prices for McMansions her”

                              Very 2010 way of thinking! Those are no longer Buckhead prices. Those are Decatur prices.

                           5. I still wear clothes from 1994 and sometimes forget that the Grog Shop has been replaced by a $100 per person tapas place. 2010 thinking is a step forward for me!

                        4. ” But, another part of me thinks the tax increase will create a self-fulfilling prophecy – even more w/o kids leave and only those with kids can justify paying the taxes. Thoughts?”

                           Can only speak for our childless household, but a 20% tax increase would likely spur us to move, especially if it were accompanied by annexation of more residential areas (meaning there would probably be a need for more tax increases later once more kids moved in). The only reason it might not is that, since we’re in a condo, we wouldn’t make the big profit on the recent increases in value that those in single family houses would. Hell, a 20 % percent increase might even lower our property value.

                        5. ” I believe a 15 to 20% tax increase is imminent – we have to pay for those schools somehow. ”

                           Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t we too close to the state-imposed cap to realize a tax increase that large? I think the more likely scenario is that the schools become overcrowded, DeKalb and Atlanta improve their schools somewhat, and demand gradually lessens.

                           1. Answer to my own question: I forgot, as I’ve probably done before, that city school systems are exempt from the millage rate cap. Just read the consultants report over on Decaturish projecting that the rate will likely go from 20.5 to 21.5 by 2018 WITHOUT annexation (because, they claim, there is so little available space for school expansion within the current borders). Wouldn’t be a significant increase for us, but I guess it would be for some.

8. Medlock is not handing over those commercial properties without a fight. Not sure why CoD thinks they are entitled to those parcels. Perhaps they need to figure out a solution for their school system that is not dependent on properties that are not within their current boundaries.

   1. Is Medlock a city? I was unaware that those commercial properties were anywhere other than DeKalb County, which seems to substantially limit Medlock’s ability to halt the annexation of those properties (whether by Decatur, Briarcliff, etc.).

      1. Seems like it could play out a bunch of ways. Medlock has had a strong and steady voice in zoning for most of those properties and nurturing the Medline LCI. Some of our legislators might feel that it makes sense for those properties to go with whatever city Medlock ends up belonging to.

10. Can we please just drop this fig leaf:

    “key objectives of the annexation master plan are to influence and control development at key gateways”

    1. Why so? Speaking personally, the ability to maximize financial returns via land use policy, while creating more ped-friendly centers for neighborhoods in proximity, are the primary reasons why I’m not flat-out against exploring annexation as an option. I want more detail around those possibilities before making up my mind for certain.

       1. First of all gateways are not static. Today it is Suburban Plaza. Why not North Dekalb Mall and Little Creek Horse Farm, those are Gateways? If you are serious about influenciing the land use and creating pedestrian friendly mixed-use around North Decatur Road and Clairmont, it is essential to control the surrounding multi-family – Emory Oaks (15+acres) and Gables apartments. Retail property owners are extremely reluctant to lose any cash-flow in redevelopment. The most likely properties to be redeveloped are existing multi-family, and yet those multi-family properties that walk to retail are excluded from Decatur’s annexation plans. The fact is Decatur’s policies are aimed solely at creating more tax revenue off commercial properties and specifically those that do not generate students. Protecting our gateways is a false pretense – and Decatur is and should be better than that.

          Decatur is a tax rich community. GSU has looked at the per capita tax base throughout DeKalb, and Decatur has $49,600 in property tax base per capita. Currently unincorporated DeKalb has $21,300 per capita, and if Lakeside and Tucker are created it falls to $17,700 – and that is before Avondale, Decatur and Stone Mountain cherry pick more commercial/industrial properties.

          Decatur must understand their desire to “maximize financial returns” comes at the expense of other communities, and will force tax increases upon others. Essentially Decatur is arguing: we can’t afford to pay for our schools, so we’re going to expand and force others to raise their millage rates to pay for their government services. It is beyond selfish.

          1. “Decatur must understand their desire to “maximize financial returns” comes at the expense of other communities, and will force tax increases upon others. Essentially Decatur is arguing: we can’t afford to pay for our schools, so we’re going to expand and force others to raise their millage rates to pay for their government services. It is beyond selfish.”

             Maybe. But, please point me to one of the new cities being proposed that isn’t cherry picking properties, all at the expense of other TBD cities and/or DeKalb Co. And Scott is right about wanting to control land use of these properties as they have a much large impact on CoD than they will in Briarcliff or Lakeside if based on nothing other that proximity.

             1. ^This. To suggest that Decatur is on some selfish tear in an environment otherwise characterized by benevolent altruism is nuts. There’s some crazy sh*t comin’ down. Everyone’s trying to get theirs.

                Make the argument that annexation will ultimately be a loser and I’m all ears. But I’ll pass on the suggestion that Decatur’s some thief among saints.

                1. “Everyone’s trying to get theirs.” Thanks for making my point about dropping the fig leaf on gateways.

                   I never suggested it was period of altruism, but it is hypocritical for Decatur to claim it is on some progressive new urbanist mission, when in fact they are “just trying to get theirs.”

             2. “please point me to one of the new cities being proposed that isn’t cherry picking properties, all at the expense of other TBD cities and/or DeKalb Co.” Briarcliff chose their borders based upon existing cities, I-85 and I-285. They didn’t draw lines just around office parks and shopping centers. They took it all – with the concept that it was a community of similar interests and neighborhoods.

                1. But only because those boundaries contained the assets that would pencil out. If they didn’t, the boundaries would have gotten more, errrr, creative.

                   1. So your argument is that Briarcliff made a principled decision but would have made a greedy decision. And you know this because….

12. I agree with many of the comments above. I don’t see any benefit to residential annexation to existing residents or the COD. They only benefit is to the neighborhoods annexed as they hit a gold mine, yes their property taxes will increase but they gain access to amazing schools. If these residents don’t have kids or aren’t interested in the schools they can sell their house for much more than they would have been able to pre-annexation.

    COD doesn’t get it or doesn’t care. There is one thing that differentiates Decatur from almost any other ITP neighborhood or area. We have something that Buckhead, Morningside, the Highlands, Midtown, Brookhaven, Avondale Estates, and other areas ITP don’t have: THE SCHOOLS.

    Yes the downtown square, small feel, and other attributes of Decatur are great, but it is the high quality schools in combination with the location in town has increased Decatur property values and lead to all the other changes discussed on this blog. It’s no accident that Decatur can boast it has the highest number of residents with college and advanced degrees, it’s no accident that the socio-economic status and housing costs have increased so much over the past 5-10 years. It’s no accident they’re building $500k townhouses and $800k – $1 million homes in Decatur it’s all about the SCHOOLS! CSD and the excellent K – 12 public charter school education is something none of the other ITP areas can match. Many have excellent elementary and/or middle schools but the high schools fall short. CSD is the exception and the high quality schools are the reason my family moved here from the burbs this past year and growth in Decatur has exploded.

    COD can hire all the high prices consultants they want to project school growth from annexation, they are severely underestimating the number of kids residential annexation will bring to CSD. You can count on almost all residential areas annexed having children in almost all the houses, apartments, or townhomes that are annexed. If they don’t now they will once taxes increase and real estate agents can sell the COD schools.

    COD don’t worry about size, worry about sustaining and improving CSD further. it won’t matter if the city is 4 miles in area or 40 miles it will be the most desirable place to live in Atlanta. Please keep Decatur great and don’t be too ambitious and grow just to grow and don’t destroy the schools!

    1. The sheer common sense in your comment makes me question the sanity/openness/competence of our elected and appointed officials in the COD. What is with the reluctance to acknowledge and address such obvious and serious concerns? Are they hiding something or absolutely clueless?

14. When the expression “expand the tax base” is used, does it pretty much mean adding more commercial than residential property because the former is revenue positive but the latter entails a lot of services and is either revenue stable or negative? This is how I have thought of it. Or does it mean adding lots more property because a bigger number of properties is inherently more stable tax-wise than is a smaller number of properties? (Kind of like a household with 5 people earning a certain income is more stable income-wise than a similar household of 2 people earning the same income is. In the former, if one person loses their job, there’s only a 20% decrease in total income but in the latter, half of the total income is gone.)

    1. Yes the smart way for COD to expand the tax base is with commercial annexation. However it appears to me that more residential properties are interested in annexation than commercial properties. Already Your Dekalb Farmers Market has made it clear they don’t want Decatur. My guess is COD wants commercial properties too but will likely have to annex residential properties between current COD limits and any commercial properties they want to annex. My fear is the the residential properties annexed are more of a burden and tax revenue negative drain exceeding an tax revenue positive gain the commerical properties would provide.
       There are benefits for businesses to be in COD. When the gas station on N. Decatur Rd. & Clairmont caught fire last month (not even in COD) which firefighters arrived first on the scene and sprung into action? Yep it was the COD fire department that arrived first. Dekalb County fire department came later after everything was probably under control. You get what you pay for! I’ll gladly pay higher taxes for COD’s fast response while others wait up to 45 minutes for 911 response or the fire department from Dekalb County.

16. As a person that moved into COD six months ago (not into a mcmansion, with NO plans to tear anything down) I can tell you that the schools are what brought us here. I can also tell you that the only way we got our house is because we knew someone that wanted to down size at the same time we wanted to “up” size so their house never went officially on the market. Competition for housing in COD is insane. As soon as they annex new neighborhoods those houses will be torn down and replaced with new larger homes. In the long run, maybe it will help the tax base…maybe. I worry about the next five years though, especially for the elementary schools. Not sure why they can’t try and develop more of Church street and expand downtown for more commercial property…

    1. “Not sure why they can’t try and develop more of Church street and expand downtown for more commercial property…”

       …..well, because the City cannot force, or even highly encourage, a property owner on Church St to develop into more commercial. Those parcels around the CrossFit Decatur would be a wonderful spot for a facelift and redevelopment. I wish it would happen too.

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