Suburban Plaza Walmart Fight Before Judge, Names of Other Tenants Released
Decatur Metro | August 12, 2013From WABE…
The issue now pending in court: whether the group Good Growth DeKalb (GGD) has legal standing to appeal DeKalb County’s decision to issue developer Selig Enterprises a building permit.
The county says GGD has no legal standing. GGD representatives say, even if the organization loses this round in court, it will take the County to court on its primary allegation: that the county violated its own ordinances when it granted Selig the permit.
And then this…
But DeKalb County lawyers said in court Friday that Selig plans include not only Walmart but also a Ross Dress for Less, Joann’s Fabric and Crafts, and a HomeGoods store.
I can’t wait until they break ground and this nonsense stops. Hopefully GGD gets squahsed and Kathie Gannon, err her husband, doesn’t try the same tactics with 315.
And, the county is correct – GGD lacks standing.
Hopefully a litigator can answer this, but doesn’t GGD have to include all of its complaints in one action so that it can’t file a series of successive complaints to string this thing out?
Phipps Plaza, look out!
It is almost unfair when the required zoning is in place to construct something like a WalMart but the fact is when you provide the lowest prices for crap made in China, it will tend to attract lower income customers. The majority of criminals are a result of low income situations whereby these individuals have sacrificed their opportunity for a good education in lieu of a life of crime. This is the main concern by citizens that fear that criminal activity will increase as a result of low income retail stores coming in.
Is it a sheer coincidence that the criminal activity has increased substantially in the Oakhurst area ever since the Family Dollar came in? I think a valid argument can be made to this regard and alot of other similar cases in communities across the US. I’m just saying…
Yes, it is a sheer coincidence. These crimes aren’t being committed by teenagers on the way to or from the Family Dollar. Nor are they being committed by people shopping or loitering at Family Dollar.
Rick, The elephant in the room here is that the space has most recently been held by a thrift shop and used mattress store. So, if your argument is that “cheap retail” is going to displace something less, um, “low income,” I’m not sure you’ve thought your position out.
+1
Well…um…uh…I guess props to you for flat out saying it rather than beating around the bush and pretending that you have more noble motives or an actual rational basis for wanting to keep Walmart out.
“I think a valid argument can be made to this regard and a lot of other similar cases in communities across the US. I’m just saying…”
You’re “just saying” because there are no statistics to back you up. I hope you didn’t hurt yourself stretching to that conclusion.
lol “crap made in China” Guess I will have to sell all my Apple gear now…..but wait….what computers are made in the good ole USA? Darn….back to the abacus.
Wow, Rick, just wow. I do want to commend you for adding in your two cents. And you got your money’s worth with that post. I actually picked up this vibe from a bevy of new Oakhurtsters this weekend: That somehow the Family Dollar has led to the crime wave. I thought maybe I was hearing them wrong. (Because as some people on this site will tell you, I don’t understand english very well). But now I’m wondering if that is a pervasive assumption out there among the new Oakhurst set? Yikes.
i’m pretty sure the improved UJoint patio is to blame for the latest crime wave.
I’m honestly not sure whether I qualify as a “new” or “old” Oakhurster (have been here just shy of 10 years) but the notion that Family Dollar is drawing the criminal element is laughable. I did, in fact, laugh out loud when I read that. In a perfect world in which I was the benevolent dictator I would likely have chosen a different retailer for that spot, but sadly my plans for world domination have been consistently thwarted by reality. But FD evidently fills a needed spot in the market and is convenient and pleasant to shop in. I will concur that there are definitely more sketchy looking people sitting out in front of U-Joint drinking beer on that fabulous new patio. *that last part was a joke, except for the part about the patio being fabulous*
i think you’re in that sweet spot where you can talk crap about both new and old oakhurster.
“Old” vs. “new” Oakhurst – it’s a state of mind.
“sacrificed their opportunity for a good education in lieu of a life of crime.”
this made me want to vomit.
Me, too.
Rick, that has to be one of most ignorant, classist comments I have ever read on here. Actually, crime has increased in Oakhurst as people with more money and stuff have moved in. It has nothing to do with the Family Dollar.
Pure nonsense. It is, of course, mass transit that leads to lower income people coming into OUR neighborhoods and spreading crime. It must be true, or Cobb and Gwinnett wouldn’t have been beating that drum for the last forty years.
But the South Decatur street car line stopped running 70 years ago.
Hideous tenant roster.
Rick: yes, it is a sheer coincidence. However, I did notice that the number of burglaries in Decatur increased substantially right around the time Mar opened.
I’ve always suspected that Mexican Seafood is a gateway food to a life of crime.
Once you open a Spanish coastal restaurant you start attracting lazy Mediterranean beach bums setting up unsanctioned valet stands because they don’t want to work. It’s a proven fact.
As someone who used to work summers and after college at an unsanctioned valet stand, I am offended. Damn, that was such a great job. Thanks for helping me relive the memories…I guess I’ll forgive you for offending me.
hey now, if it weren’t for us lazy mediterranean beach bums hundreds of speedos would go unfilled. is that the kind of world you want to live in?
I almost got ill thinking of filled speedos.
+100
Why is that a ‘hideous tenant roster’? What would constitute a fabulous roster? A good one? Mediocre?
In my opinion it’s a “bad” roster because it duplicates so many of the other suburban shopping centers around here (see Cofer Crossing in Tucker, for example). The stores are boring, at least to my tastes. I’m not going to make an unrealistic “wish list”, but I don’t think a movie theater would have been impossible, maybe something like the Studio Grill or Movie Tavern.
And I really don’t understand why Homegoods has been expanding so much when they are full of such horribly cheap-yet- still-overpriced junk. Frankly, I would have preferred a Goodwill store to it. And aren’t their stores in North DeKalb Mall that are pretty much identical to Ross? Come to think of it, isn’t there a Ross IN North DeKalb Mall??
None of this means I oppose the redevelopment; it just means I won’t be shopping there.
It’s hideous because it doesn’t cater to me and my needs, and what I like is more important than what anyone else likes. Therefore a fabulous roster for me would include Panera Bread, LA Fitness, REI, The Vortex, Chipotle, Nordstrom, and my office.
“…and my office.”
Bad roster of shops?
My wife is doing flips right now – a Home Goods, a JoAnn’s and a Ross!!
Throw in a Michael’s and I’ll have to start hiding the credit cards!!
Tell your wife she’s not the only one happy to have a Joann’s closer than Snellville and Duluth!
Yes, to that Michael’s, although that would be in partial competition to the JoAnn’s. Wonder if this spells the end for Hancock, though.
I think it has to. I don’t see how Hancock’s would be able to compete with Joann’s. In any case, I’m happy to have a notions spot right up the street.
JoAnn’s has become a craft store with very limited fabric choices for anything but quilts. Even if you want to buy fabric there, you have to take a number and wait endlessly for one of the few remaining staff to have time to wait on you.
I will continue to shop at Hancock’s, with their helpful, knowledgeable, and AVAILABLE staff, and hope they can survive.
I hadn’t intended to disparage Hancock’s at all. I shop there and have been very keen to hear that they will remain. My comment was only meant to say that it is hard for me to imagine the shopping center being able to support both stores. I will note, however, that I have found a number fabrics (other than quilting cotton) at Joann’s that I have not been able to locate at Hancock’s. And I find the waits for cutting at both stores can be seemingly interminable, probably since I can only get by either one on the weekends.
I get that people don’t like Walmart and its ilk, but I really don’t get what they expect out of this shopping center. The Suburban Plaza area is not a high income area and is not going to attract those kinds of stores : Whole Foods, Trader Joes, etc.
I don’t know. That is one high dollar thrift store there now. And don’t get me started about the inflated prices at the discount mattress shop.
My thoughts exactly! There must be serious crime problems currently near Suburban Plaza based on Rick’s analysis. The Wal-Mart should actually reduce crime in the area.
brianc, I can’t speak for GGD and have not been part of their efforts. For me, what I wish had occurred is a complete re-imagining of the shopping center into something else. As the northern gateway into Decatur, and neighbor to a lot of residential property, this space could have easily accommodated residential, retail and commercial components. It could have served as an urban shopping counterpoint to Downtown Decatur, added pedestrian and bike infrastructure and linked the Medlock Park community to Church St. and Sycamore Dr. It could have leveraged DeKalb Medical and Emory by adding medical office space, lab space and co-working space for medical device researchers. At the very least, it could have moved the commercial space up to the street and placed 1,000+ parking spaces behind the buildings.
At the end of the day it looks like we’ll get an updated version of what’s there now, which in my view is just lazy. Lazy developers, lazy planning department, lazy political engagement, and overall lazy city planning.
But there will be residential and other concepts across the street.
Those are some interesting ideas that you laid out. And the great thing about it is that those things can still happen. No one is preventing you or anyone else from ponying up the money and realizing your vision. I’m sure Selig would sell for the right price.
I’m only being half facetious. If you don’t want something to go in a specific site, then there is one foolproof way to make that happen: buy the property yourself.
Well, buying the property myself would be one way of controlling its destiny, but it’s not the only way. As a neighbor, I get to weigh in. That’s why city planning, as a component of local government, exists. Selig’s property rights are an important principle, but I don’t believe they overshadow the right of a community to set standards for development, including zoning, future land-use designations, infrastructure guidelines, and a host of other regs. Now, before someone hollers at me that the property is being developed under existing zoning regulations, please know that I agree. The point I was making before is that the county has had decades to work with the property owner to conceptualize something more innovative, and work together to change the underlying zoning. The fact that they didn’t is why I called the whole thing lazy planning.
JC – you forgot one lazy party – the neighbors. They sat around and did absolutely nothing about the big box zoning for years. They let it fall into its current state of disrepair. They were not proactive about this site, acted like they didn’t even care until this new plan came along.
Agreed
Hey now. The DID put up a bunch of signs once they realized how badly they messed up!
I agree with that.
DeKalb is a large area with a lot of competing interests, but I have been underwhelmed by the economic development efforts from the county for certain areas. For this property, I would have felt more optimistic about getting something unique if Decatur had annexed it. But I know there is a whole other can of worms in taking that action.
You beat me to the punch Rival… I was going to say the same thing.
I would love to see this tract become the center of a great new mixed use environment. But it is not realistic to expect a company to risk their capital to make that kind of transformational bet.
The suburban plaza update is just a facelift of an existing structure. They are cleaning the building up to make it a place that a corporate real estate manager is comfortable selecting for their chain store.
Now if Decatur had been able to annex this a few years ago and change the zoning… this might have happened. But that is not going to happen any time soon.
If the community wants to see this kind of transformation, I’d recommend lobbying DeKalb to consider rezoning the triangle between Scott and Church. The old Ford Dealership and the Montessori building are likely to be consolidated into a large tract for some significant development. The time to rezone is BEFORE that purchase happens.
Of course… that would require that DeKalb county leadership be responsive to constituents… I should stop daydreaming and get back to work.
Before you indict DeKalb leadership, remember that that includes Kathie Gannon who, as I understand it, has particular expertise in responsible growth.
isn’t indicting dekalb county leadership the district attorney’s job?
Zing!
We have a bad thrift store and a mattress company that is so un-invested in the community they have not put up a real sign. Letting an established retailer come in to provide stability only makes sense.
Although I am not a WalMart shopper, I have no issues with the store going in as long as it follows parking and other city/county ordinances.
As much as I despise WalMart and the heirs of Sam W. , I despise racism and classism no matter how it is thinly disguised. I won’t shop there but I sure will enjoy the benefits of a greatly increased tax base that it will provide.
Hey, HomeGoods is a pretty decent store.
But to the point of higher end stores coming in–seems to me we have to prime the pump first. Not sure it’s realistic to expect a suburban strip mall to go from decrepit to high end in one move. To do that, there would need to be some seriously deep-pocketed investor out there wanting to spend their money to completely revamp the area into a hip new destination. And obviously, by now we can assume no one is interested in doing that. And sure as shootin, DeKalb county ain’t gonna purchase it for green space.
So instead we got chain stores–exactly what the property is zoned for. I don’t like Walmart either, to be honest. But it’s either that, or a dying, dark suburban ghost mall with decaying asphalt. Is it not safer and better to have the space well lit and well used?
“To do that, there would need to be some seriously deep-pocketed investor out there wanting to spend their money to completely revamp the area into a hip new destination”
In my opinion, the more likely alternative would have been a redevelopment with the Indian community in mind. It’s an exploding demographic, as is readily apparent by the parking lot at the Patel Bros. shopping center on Church St.
Tend to agree with dec8tur – having a shopping center with occupied space is a good start. as to high-end, the Emory Point development on Clifton Rd pretty much nabbed higher-end retail and restaurant business and they are planning Emory Point 2 as we speak. It’s not that far away, and it has the Emory and CDC traffic.
Boy did I ever stur up a hornet’s nest! I really enjoyed reading the reactions. Please don’t take any of my comments to heart. This is a great blog to have fun on. I have enjoyed it ever since I first joined. I think improving Suburban Plaza is a good thing. I particularly don’t care for WalMart going in but they are taking the big risk by investing in the property. If the majority of the public doesn’t like the new teanant then they won’t shop there and the business will eventually go out of business. I am afraid that is our only hope as far as WM goes.
The reference to the new Family Dollar was intended to spur a discussion to that regard. There are no corelations intended towards the recent crime wave. I hope you had as much fun as I did reading the reactions.
All I can say is that you’re about as good at satire as this girl:
http://www.redandblack.com/opinion/how-to-find-that-perfect-husband-in-college/article_8b6d38e2-c575-11e1-8ce5-0019bb30f31a.html
Hey, it wasn’t all bad: I learned the word “frocket.”
I may need to check this, but I’m pretty sure that posting something exceptionally offensive and sitting back and reading how everybody gets upset just for fun is the exact definition of an internet troll.
+1
Usually my satire button is on high alert. Sorry, Rick. I was so shocked by it that I posted meanness to you.
I am heading back to troll J_T’s facebook page and bullying his friends into telling me I am adorable.
She has actually done this before and it’s shamefully fun to watch…
It seems that most people want something similar to the Edgewood Shopping District in this spot. Mid-scale retail and dining with adjacent apartments/townhouses. Looking back, it’s amazing that the Edgewood district ever got built, given the proximity to low-income neighborhoods and opposition from L5P and Candler Park residents. I would guess that it had a positive impact on property values in the area. It’s hard to believe what they were able to pack into a former parking lot for Atlanta Gas Light employees.
“It seems that most people want something similar to the Edgewood Shopping District in this spot.”
I can’t help but think that the opposition to the Suburban reboot would have been muted if a Target were going there instead of a Walmart. Silly snobbery with no rational basis.
I wonder if the Joann will go in right next door to Hancock. Such a shame. I love Hancock and shop there all the time. I hope they can withstand going up against Joann Fabric.
I think the subtext here is that if JoAnn’s moves in, Hancock will be out. Having both in the same strip would be unsustainable.
I kind of always figured some people are “rich” in part because they spend their money wisely. I make a good living and I love shopping at places like Ross. Homegoods? Love it! This guy hopes Good Growth wilts.
Agreed! We are comfortable because my competitive nature makes me love finding a good bargain. Wish we could speed up the redevelopment!
Some people just have their own image of “rich” people (they usually put the term “evil” in front of it). They seem incapable of understanding that most “rich” people are not cruising around on yachts, but are very frugal people.
The problem is that in search of a great deal, we usually attract stores that source product from the cheapest producers (often poor quality, that use unsustainable if not downright toxic materials in some part of manufacturing process), use underpaid store labor with few if any benefits…and then thow up (sic) as many of such stores as possible.
So we end up with virtually identical strip malls, selling virtually identical products, sold by people who can barely make ends meet much less buy the products they are selling…and the taxpayer is left to pay for the healthcare the store owners stopped offering, cleaning up the environment sullied by the production, transportation and too-soon disposal of such products (some of which are exported to poor countries which undermines local clothing producers, which makes the poor country poorer and more dependent)…not to mention paying for wars to protect access to the oil used to produce & ship said merchandise…not the great deals they seemed…
Without throwing everything out and starting over from scratch, there are communities that are dialoging about the differences between various stores/businesses. Targets sell lots of imports and junky stuff, but they refuse to sell cigarettes and have a reputation for fairly decent working conditions. WalMart sell tons of booze & guns, and they have perfected growth by squeezing their employees AND their suppliers. I am optimistic enough to believe that an engaged community CAN help determine & influence the businesses that operate in that community. Snitty critiques seldom help do more than divide a community.
“WalMart sell tons of booze”
Really, where? I personally have never been in a WM that sold booze.
I would challenge anyone to survey all of the local independent stores and find out who is getting the vast majority of the money created by the business (my hunch is the owner), what kind of benefits the employees get (my hunch is zero to minimal), where is their product actually from (my hunch is you would be surprised at how much is from China), and what kind of health plan they provide their workers (my hunch is close to nothing). So many buy into this quaint idea of independent stores somehow being run for some reason other than the same reasons huge chains exist. They both exist to make money…and usually as much as possible. Before we condemn someone like Walmart for supposedly treating their employees unfairly, first compare what those employees get compared to some of your favorite successful local businesses.
Great book: “The Millionaire Next Door” about wealthy people who got and stay that way by saving and spending wisely.
I’m not sure that most rich people are frugal or smart. Seems like history, financial markets, the news, and other evidence are to the contrary. But I do agree that a way to accumulate and hold on to wealth is to be frugal and make smart decisions. Unfortunately, I only have the first one down pat. But I also think that priorities are part of the equation. Accumulating wealth is only one priority among many competing priorities, IMHO. The wealth doesn’t go with you wherever you go at the end of life.
Most rich people aren’t in the news. I believe you are mistaking “rich” for “rich & famous”.
I think the overall wish here is to change everything and nothing about Suburban Plaza at the same time.
BTW: Family Dollar rocks : )
they can do whatever they want as long as cozy burger town is unaffected.
+1
LA Fitness? Starbucks with a drive through? Consider me officially on board.
http://www.medlockpark.org/2013/08/selig-issues-suburban-plaza-update.html
So, I went to my friendly, local Ace Hardware store in search of a certain item. Cost: $160. Same item at a big box store: $42. What’s the price for your dedication to local businesses?
I have never found the price difference to be that significant. Almost everything I buy at Intown I can’t find anywhere else. I probably could find it at another store somewhere (maybe) but my time is too valuable to drive all over the city to save a few dollars. The only thing Intown needs to worry about is adjusting their inventory for increased traffic. I think they will be better off than before.
AND, there are many things at Intown that you won’t find at the other place. AND, what you do find will be easier to find at Intown. AND, the staff at Intown knows what they’re talking about and you don’t have to hunt them down. AND, you park by the door without having to hike across a sea of asphalt.
Intown will be fine.
+1000000
I really wanted to buy my Weber grill from Intown but the difference between them and online was between $250 and $300 delivered to my front door with almost zero assembly required. I would have paid slightly more however their ransom was too high on that one.
Everyone in town seems to adore Intown (including my own husband), but they just aren’t very friendly to me. I must give off some vibe in there. My husband says that they are yankees, and it just is what it is. But it’s not like the hardware store I grew up with. So, I stick to other stores, and I let him get his fix there alone.
Phew, I thought it was just me. And I’m a Yankee myself!
Seriously, I read all the comments here and think I must live in some alternate universe. We joke about the Ace like we do the mini Kroger. It seems like whatever one thing we go there for, they either don’t have it or they just ran out. And they are often pretty rude about it. So then we drive down the street to Home Depot and buy it for half the price anyway. They may be just as rude and unhelpful at the Home Depot but at least we get a deal moneywise!
Wow, maybe alternate universes do exist. I have the opposite experience. Even if I’m in a withdrawn mood and want to stubbornly walk every aisle to find an item myself, some friendly sales person asks me how they can help. Maybe it’s the shock of seeing someone as unhandy as me show up in a hardware store….
Keith,
You must not be comparing apples to apples my friend. A quick internet search shows that our everyday prices for new Weber grills are exactly the same as the online ‘sale’ prices. We try hard to earn your business by offering free assembly(minimum 2 hrs) and free freight, UPS cannot deliver gas grills.
Thanks for being one of our customers.
While I would also love to hand-pick each tenant at this new property, and would have loved to do the same for the Family Dollar center in Oakhurst, I think it is important for everyone to realize that we can’t do that. Not even the property owner can attract their first choice tenants.
I have a friend at Selig whom I rather pointedly questioned about this development, and they said that Selig tried to get Whole Foods, Trader Joe’s, Fresh Market, and other higher end tenants in there. Guess what? None of them wanted to come, and they all cited not enough economic support, that area is not their demographic, etc.
While neither of us agreed with this assessment, apparently that is how the area looks on paper to the marketing and business folks within these companies. Hence the “low-end” stores coming into this center. I’ve also looked at marketing data for this and other surrounding Decatur areas and I am surprised by the statistics.
And it doesn’t make sense for a property owner or developer to do a radical makeover with no tenants to support it. Perhaps over time, the center will improve in our eyes, and there seems to be hope of that with Home Goods, Ross, LA Fitness (did I read that correctly?), and more coming in besides Walmart. These stores are not MY first pick, but at least it will breathe some new life into this decrepit, unattractive center with a massive poorly designed parking lot.
trader joe’s shunned decatur? the horror!
“I’ve also looked at marketing data for this and other surrounding Decatur areas and I am surprised by the statistics.”
Maybe the statistics seem surprising because the poor in this area are to some degree invisible to us.
They aren’t frequenting Brick Store, Dancing Goats, etc. I’m not at all trying to be snarky, just speculating based on my own experiences in Decatur. If I didn’t take MARTA and do some volunteer work, I wouldn’t encounter many lower income people in my routines.
I understand what you mean; however, I do see that there are low-income people around this area. What I meant was that I am surprised that the number of middle and upper-middle class households don’t balance it out enough for one of those food retailers to come here.
I am happy to have diversity and have no problem at all living next to, shopping with (yes I shop at places like Big Lots and Family Dollar), and sending my kids to school with low income people. I know you say you weren’t being snarky but I do venture out of my Decatur Brickstore, Dancing Goats, etc, bubble. I also volunteer and take MARTA from time to time
And I get that low income people often aren’t “seen” by some higher-income folks (even though they might be right in front of or right next to them), but I am not one of those folks. I guess there is no way for you to know this by what I posted, but it’s also a little unfair for you to assume that lower income people are invisible to me or “us.”
Fair points. I guess I’m just extrapolating from my own routines in Decatur, which could easily lead me to believe Decatur area is higher income than it actually is, and assuming others on this site have similar experiences. Again, though, I was speculating, not making any claims.